Info requested - lancaster crash near Woodford

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

The 'Lancaster info' thread reminded me of another lancaster crash, this one lost on a test flight from Woodford. I believe it suffered tailplane failure and came down somewhere south of the field. I can't find anything about it on Google, and wondered if anyone here could enlighten me as to details, including exactly where it came down.

SSD

[DaveW]

SSD, this sort of question inevitably sends me scurrying for my copy of Derek Collier Webb's excellent UK Flight Testing Accidents 1940-71.
This gives:
11 September 1944 Lancaster III PB579
Mr S Gleave (Production Test Pilot) and Mr H Barnes, Avro, Woodford. One of every 10th aircraft that was checked to its terminal velocity dive speed of 375mph to verify control effectiveness and ease of recovery. During the dive the fuel jettison pipes tore off, hit the tailplane and stripped the elevator skin. The aircraft dived vertically into the ground at Alderley Edge, three miles south of Woodford. This was the only fatal accident involving a Lancaster out of the 3,958 tested at Woodford. 2 killed. Cat 5.
The entry gives three references:
1. The Quiet Test Pilot, The story of Jimmy Orrell OBE - Peter V Clegg, 1989, Greater Manchester Museum of Science & Industry Aviation Collection
2. Lancaster At War 2 - M Garbett & B Goulding, Ian Allen 1979, ISBN 0-7110-0966-X
3. Air Accident Investigation Branch - Case List

I'd be most interested to learn anything else you find out about this accident; I was brought up in Woodford and my family still live there.

Edited to say that the accident and its aftermath is also described in Harald Penrose's biography of Sir Roy Chadwick, Architect of Wings. It doesn't add anything to the detailed info forget has posted below, though. It seems from forget's scans as though Garbett & Goulding included a photo of the crash site - perhaps that might be used to identify the exact position today, if that's what you wish to do SSD.

Siddington isn't 3 miles S of Woodford, or that near Alderley, really. I wonder how that suggestion arose?

[forget]

Here you are; from Lancaster at War 2, Garbett and Goulding, ISBN 0 7110 0966 X

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/LANC1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/LANC2.jpg

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Siddington isn't 3 miles S of Woodford, or that near Alderley, really. I wonder how that suggestion arose?


Thanks for this, chaps. I live in Alderley Edge, which is indeed about 3 (maybe 4) miles south of Woodford. And Siddington is about 5 or 6 miles further south than Alderley, so either site could be the actual location. The descroption of undulating land a couple of hundred feet up and down fits Siddington rather than Alderley, which is an east-west ridge about 600 feet high with a scarp north slope and a gentle southern slope, with the village of Alderley at its western extremity.

But the crash site could have been somewhere on this southern slope. Can anyone add any information that would confirm it either way?

SSD

[DaveW]

Since Collier Webb sources from Garbett & Goulding, and given the eyewitness detail provided in the latter, I would suggest that you assume Siddington was the crash site unless proven otherwise.

Penrose also states the site as being Siddington; he's using the same first-hand source (Sandy Jack) as G&G.

If you can get hold of Peter Clegg's book, referenced by Collier Webb, then that may contain further detail.

You might also consider sending a letter to the local paper whose beat covers Siddington. I've had some success doing this for a project of my own in Wiltshire. You never know, the two children who found the vital evidence may still be living in the area! Even if they aren't, a pound to a penny there's someone who remembers the event, even if second hand.

[forget]

Here's a picture of the crash site. It may help you to eliminate a 'possibility'.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/LANC3.jpg

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Hmmm. Hard to tell from the pic. It could be the back of the Edge nearer to Prestbury where it's a bit flatter, or Siddington east of Redesmere area. :uhoh:

Thanks for posting it, though.

SSD

[Brian Abraham]

"Avro Lancaster - The Definative Record" by Harry Holmes contains a photo (page 158) of the wreckage of PB579/Sid Gleave. Is in an open paddock and does not seem to relate to the photo posted by forget. Can scan and post to those who want to PM.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Brian.

Have pm'd you.

Cheers

SSD

[Brewster Buffalo]

.......snip
You might also consider sending a letter to the local paper whose beat covers Siddington. ........
or Cheshire Records Office - they might hold a police and or coroner's report on the incident.