QF to ''furlo''

[airamerica]

Rumour has it that apparently Cantas has been in talks to furlough a number of its pilots to Europe?
Insider’s, is there any truth in this matter?

[blueloo]

There was an email sent around to 737 crews for a very limited number of places in Europe for a period of time.

I think there was a large response of willing candidates.(maybe only 15 spots????)

No details have been forthcoming.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Furlough is not part of the CA. Leave without pay is, but QF doesn't generally organise that.

There are many examples of pilots on fleets that are in surplus going to other airlines for a spell then returning. With the loomimg surplus on the A330 or the current one on the classic, maybe that is the source of the rumour you heard.

[Shot Nancy]

I would be very wary of Leave of Absence (LOA) from QF.
The devil is in what the letter of agreement doesn't tell you.
Insist that they still contribute to your super, loss of licence and that you have continuity of service.
Who pays for your requalification on return? Do you have to exhaust leave before you go etc?
Years down the track a little LOA can rear its ugly head and affect long service leave, sick leave, super, redundancy etc.
Tax is always an individual responsibility; even though you may have right of abode in EU the Oz ATO has onerous residency requirements.

[ur2]

Thats why they call it "LEAVE WITHOUT PAY".

[YesTAM]

Warning! Warning! YesTAM has had experience of this type of arrangement that is in effect an invitation to resign. The letter may talk of "leave without pay", "furlough" and all sorts of other stuff, including promises, incentives and all sorts of honeyed words. However in my case (I think the letter was drafted by Oldmeadow in person), there was this little clause that says "For the purposes of company records, you will be shown to have resigned". In other words, if I had accepted the agreement, no mattter what honeyed words it contained, and wished to return a few years later, I was ****ed.

If you really wish to enter an agreement to do this, it must state exactly how you will return to Qantas, in detail. Furthermore, it must also spell out the consequences of what will happen if you or Qantas fail to exercise your rights. Watch for the clause at the end (or the beginning) that can be construed to destroy all the other clauses. If you do not understand it, get advice.

To put it another way, it is no good saying for example;"After thirty days this option will lapse". You have to spell out exactly what your rights will (or won't) be after the option lapses. Do not leave anything open to interpetation because anything left hanging will be used against your interests.

Words that should ring alarm bells include: "At the company's unfettered discretion" (Meaning they don't have to be "reasonable") and anything that gives the company an option to terminate your services or not offer you a position back.

[Wizofoz]

I believe the postings are to easyJet to cover an FO shortage over Summer.

[Centaurus]

And I suppose all the poor buggers in England who have been sweating it out for a job with Easy Jet will be real pleased to see Qantas pilots warming their seats for them...

[blueloo]

think you will find that it is whilst they do some training - so even the temp hires there would have been looking for a new job pretty quickly.

its all done through some hire mob anyway. not directly to easy jet.

[Wizofoz]

Centaurus,

EZY have been recruiting flat out for years and still can't train people fast enough to keep up with expansion and people leaving to BA, VA, EK and the like. We've recentlry dropped our entry requirements to 500hrs, have put Ab-initio cadets through, taken DECs and STILL can't fill the seats.

The QF guys will be welcomed with open arms as it will mean our guys only doing 95hrs a month instead of 100!! It will also allow some F/Os who coudn't otherwise be spared to go on their command courses.

Europe is a slightly diferrent scene to Aus....

[airamerica]

Spot on Wizofoz!

[haughtney1]

Wiz...I just had a thought, will the QF guys know whats hit them?...doing 4 sector days from STN, LGW, EDI, GLA. Thos poor cosseted boys wont know whats hit them! (plus their R/T standard will have to improve!!:p)

[blueloo]

4 sector days? Bah piece of piss - try 5 sector days between Sydney and Canberra.

With 3 aircraft changes, 2 aircraft variants (previously 3), approx 25 min turnarounds - usually much less when your running late.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Haughtney, you appear to have no idea about the rate and intensity of flying that the QF 737 crews do. My advice is to keep your trap shut to avoid looking further foolish.

[Jet_A_Knight]

How will they get around the JAA Licencing requirements?

[maui]

Dunny Blue

Been there and done yours.

Been there and done similar to Haughtneys.

My money is on him.

However try it. It will be a great eyeopening experience.

Pity it's not a winter gig, as that would offer you another entirely new dimension which could only be to your's, and Q's benefit.

Regards

Maui

[blueloo]

maui - nah sounds to hard for me, i am staying in OZ :E

[Cloud Cutter]

Sounds like an interesting gig. How do they get arround licensing and visa requirements? And if Easy Jet are finding it so difficult to recruit, why don't they offer short term contracts of this type to non-Qantas pilots?

[Wizofoz]

They won't be out of STN,LGW, GLA or EDI as they are all now Airbus bases. The only Boeing bases are LTN, NCL, BFS and some will go to LPL whilst we convert to the Airbus.

Blue, how about 6 sectors BFS-STN-BFS-BRS-BFS-STN-BFS!!

The flying is interesting, but we do some hellishly long days and up to max FTLs a lot of the time.

Short term Visas and license validations won't present a problem.

Certainly coming from QF to a European Lo-Co would be an eye-opener!!

[blueloo]

I was waiting for a 6 sector reply!

Do we have 7 ------ anyone anyone? Bueller?

Going once, twice........!!!!

[haughtney1]

Haughtney, you appear to have no idea about the rate and intensity of flying that the QF 737 crews do. My advice is to keep your trap shut to avoid looking further foolish

Borg do I hear an apology in the offing?.(mayby you now look a little foolish).same as Maui here..been there done that (and have friends in Oz that are still on the NG)..I know where my money is....:hmm: What hasnt been mentioned (sorry Wiz..I forgot about the baby bus bases:ok: ) is the portakabin buildings...crewing taking the pi** on FTL's..and yeah the 6 sector days..oh yeah and did I mention RT standards?:p
Me thinks the QF boys are in for a bit of an eye opener:ok:

[blueloo]

Will they get to say - "The Easy Jet"? on the radio, just like "The Speedbird"


Yes British R/T - its fantastic! Bwhahahahahhahhahhah!

[QFinsider]

and my personal favourite......

Fully ready...
Fully established

fully sick-No that one is Thorpy's :E

[Dropt McGutz]

I could never figure that one out either. As if you're going to report partially ready.

[donpizmeov]

Haughtney 1,

Before Borg makes any apology, can you please explain how spending 1 year flying around NZ in a clapped out bandit in the mid 90s on a brand new NZ CPL, relates to flying a QF 737? :hmm:

These MON 757 co-pilots, sure do seem to know alot. Must be all that good Brit RT training. This should more than make up for that lack of command time that stops you joining your mates still on the NG in Oz I guess.

Don

[haughtney1]

Donp....mate whatever you say:ugh:

Yeah we all had to start somewhere..Im no exception.

My point comes out of a couple of things...including R/T(just to be clear...)

1. Flying with plenty of Ozzies in this part of the world (ex QF and ansett)

2. Continued personal FRIENDS within QF on the NG (3 very good mates:) )

3. Flying in Oz, and seeing certain things first hand.

4. Oh yeah and a pretty good understanding of the challenges facing someone coming from Aus/NZ to this part of the world to work in a pressurised congested environment.

Dont get me wrong here, Im not questioning the integrity nor the proffesionalism of those who decide to do this...Im just highlighting a few things that are VERY VERY different to QF land, and that these secondee's will have a few challenges to face.
So yeah Borg owes me an apology.

Finally the dig about command time? very mature, makes me chuckle when someone can ask a few searching questions..and then back it with a personal snipp:yuk: makes you wonder about the motivation for the reply.

[donpizmeov]

H 1
Sorry about that. I should have been clearer. I was suggesting that perhaps you had not been there and done that as you stated. I am also suggesting that if a low timer such as yourself (which you were after a couple of years off flying in 2000 anyway), was able to jump through all the hoops, then perhaps those with a bit more time in aeroplanes might be able to do it as well. You never know!!!
Hope its all clearer now. Must be my bad RT.

Don

[haughtney1]

Don, it wasnt my intention to sound rude..or even have a pop at any QF guys, I originally made my comments tounge in cheek based on my experiences..and on what my QF mates tell me.
Im sure your R/T is probably better than mine:ok:

Still though, I reckon Borg, you owe me an apology...I am in a position to know a great deal more than you give me credit for:hmm:

[Jet_A_Knight]

If the sniping can be set aside - just for a moment - I ask again:

How will the JAA licencing requirements be sorted out?

If there is any truth in they are to be given short term licence validations, is this option not available to other applicants with EU right of abode?

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Haughtney, it was your suggestion that QF 737 guys are cossetted that got me miffed. They aren't. They fly to FTL limitations that are broadly similiar to the Euro ones. Most other pilots in OZ do not.

While the congested European airspace carries pressures that OZ doesn't have, I suggest that some of the QF 737 flying (Uluru in the summer springs to mind), would have European crews equally far out of their comfort zones.

[max AB]

Flying for QF in Oz is like working in a sheltered work shop, lets face it. If the opportunity is there to get some time in the UK you would be mad not to take it for the experience. Its no great hurdle, just different problems that's all. And Haughtney, I've heard Don's R/T and its crap, pretty much like mine really.

[hotnhigh]

Not happening now due to time constraints in trying to attempt to get validations. Just a bloody shame that drivers on other fleets within QF who may have JAR licences and EU passports can't get leave without pay because of 'maning issues'.
Alas, all will be solved on Wednesday, I hear.:(

[Wizofoz]

How will the JAA licencing requirements be sorted out?


You can fly in Europe on a validation of your Australian license for up to a year. You only have to sit one Air Law exam.

[haughtney1]

Haughtney, it was your suggestion that QF 737 guys are cossetted that got me miffed. They aren't. They fly to FTL limitations that are broadly similiar to the Euro ones. Most other pilots in OZ do not

Fair enough mate....:ok:


And Haughtney, I've heard Don's R/T and its crap, pretty much like mine really

You havent heard mine though..........crap is a rather positive spin on my efforts to be honest:}

[Taildragger67]

Will they get to say - "The Easy Jet"? on the radio, just like "The Speedbird"


Yes British R/T - its fantastic! Bwhahahahahhahhahhah!

Wasn't there a recent thread where "The Qantas xxx... " calls were discussed in depth??

[Wizofoz]

....And our call sign is just Easyxxxx.

A bit embarrasing for our Female pilots to have to call themselves Easy... Up there with Virgin and Baby.

The worst, however, is a South Hampton based Dash-8 operator call South West.

They have a Girly FO who gets to use the call-sign.....SWALLOW

[blueloo]

The only time I have ever heard someone say "the qantas XXX" is immediately after a radio call from "the speedbird xxx" :E . It tends to stop them from referring to themselves as "the speedbird XXX" pretty quickly!


Other than that i have never heard anyone in QF using The QANTAS xxx.


from memory that thread you referred to also mentioned something similar. it has always been a birdseed thing to use "the".....

[Veruka Salt]

"They have a Girly FO who gets to use the call-sign.....SWALLOW"

Could be worse Wiz. . . atleast she doesn't have to use the callsign "SPIT" :yuk:

[haughtney1]

They have a Girly FO who gets to use the call-sign.....SWALLOW

I hear her ALL THE TIME :} out of LGW...and there is even a nice lady in the tower that has to swallow..errr...say swallow as well;)

[Colonel Klink]

With all this garbage about RT, let me remind anyone who has not read the many easyJet postings in Rumours and News, as to why easyJet is so short of pilots:
1) almost every duty up to FTL maximum, usually 11.45 per day
2) 4 to 6 sector days, every day with 20 to 25 minute turnarounds
3) Two shifts per day, so start for a 6 am sign on, or finish around 2330.
4) 5 weeks leave per year, behind the industry standard of 6.
5) There is an acute shortage of Trainers, so it will take a while to get on line, just in time for winter.

If you are coming for a holiday, remember over 100 pilots have left easyJet in the last year, most exhausted and over 350 have left in the last 4 years. They cannot recruit qualified pilots in Europe as there is a shortage here, and the T's and C's, even with the payrise agreed last week, have fallen far behind all it's competitors. You will recruited to be used as a dumping ground for maximum flying, which may be great for you if you want to die young, but will still leave easyJet with the same problem when you are gone, because it refuses to take a long term view and SOLVE the problems!!!
PM me if you want to know more.

[Wizofoz]

4 to 6 sector days, every day with 20 to 25 minute turnarounds


7 out of my 13 days flying next month are two sector days, the rest four.

T's and C's, even with the payrise agreed last week, have fallen far behind all it's competitors.

Except Jet2, BMI Baby, Ryanair, Sky Europe, Wizz-Air- In fact virtually every other European LOCO.

CK, no one says it's perfect here, but hysterical and inaccurate rants aren't helpful.

[Sonny Hammond]

Wiz,

A quick scan of Ryanair's website indicates you may be mistaken.

Sonny.

[Wizofoz]

Sonny,

Have a search around Terms and Endearments to learn that the Ryan-air web site contains a few terminological inexactitudes.

The Colonel is right that there are quite a few leaving easy, but I can assure you thay are not flooding to Ryan.

As an over-all package you are going to make just as much at Easy as at Ryan. As a place to work, even CK will agree it's far superior.

[Sonny Hammond]

Not talking about whether people are happy or not, pilots are never happy.

Whilst i'll acknowledge that you can put anything on your website, I was just going off the numbers.

[drshmoo]

Would it be like flying for "Fresh Air"

[redsnail]

If you have nothing really keeping you in Oz for a year and felt like a change from flying short haul around Australia for a year I could think of a lot worse than blatting around Europe for a year with easyJet. Think of it as a working holiday and use the time to take short breaks in places like Paris, Berlin and so on.

Flying in Europe isn't that hard and you might even like it.
At least you can get a chance to have a look at it and at the end of the year head on back home.

[haughtney1]

Flying in Europe isn't that hard and you might even like it.

Yeah it is Reddo:} thats how the JAA can justify charging 3 times as much as anyone else for your license ;) :p

[redsnail]

Yep, the UK CAA make CASA look like rank amateurs when it comes to relieving you of your hard earned. The rotten thieving mongrel bastards!