QF HEAVY MAINTENANCE STAFF JOB OFFERS OUT TODAY. [Archive]

Brake Boy

22nd May 2006, 02:14

Heard that the guys that redeploy will be signing up to work all shift patterns.

8, 8.7, 9.5, 10.9 and 12 hour rosters all to be agreed to prior to starting. Removes the need for negotiation between QANTAS and Staff regarding extended hours rostering.

Thought the ALAEA would have had something to say about this. QANTAS have found it very easy to dictate the terms with Engineers facing unemployment.

Just doesn't seem right.

Turbo 5B

22nd May 2006, 06:09

Those contracts are pure evil or written by a complete moron.

domo

22nd May 2006, 06:24

are you saying that the employment conditions are different than those that the people are replacing
havent the phase guys already got an employment contract with qantas
will these conditions be respected ?

rudderless1

22nd May 2006, 06:35

These guys have not actually been made redundant, they have been transfered, why is there a contract, they should be on the same conditions as those currently employed in those areas.

What are the facts, can someone highlight the main points.

Brake Boy

22nd May 2006, 12:45

Story is that when these guys agree to their transfer they sign to accept ANY of these shift patterns, not just the shift pattern their co workers are currently working.

This means that when management decide to change the roster to suit the needs, they already have a group in the department that have agreed to the shift pattern.

The consultation process required for the extended hour rostering required at the moment is negated with these employees.

This situation then leads on to the divide and conquer mentallity we have seen used in the past. Just like the pre/post '96 shift penalty scales and certain people employed to work permanent night shift, or (dare I say) the Sydney/Avalon embarrasment.

A very honest way to implement change. Agree to sign up for any roster we want or you wont have a job!

But don't feel pressured.

Turbo 5B

22nd May 2006, 21:28

The new "contracts" also do not mention the current eba. It states that this contract removes any previous written or verbal statements (or something similar to that) about your employment,and as I said it doesn't mention the certified agreement.
It also says that you must undergo any medical examination that the company wishes you to go for and refusal can get you sacked, we're not talking D&A testing because thats in a seperate paragraph.
It tells you that you get a salary equivilent to your rate of pay.
Last time I looked I was on a wage with shift allowances, penalty rates etc.
DONT SIGN TILL THIS STUFF IS SORTED OUT

YesTAM

22nd May 2006, 23:23

I'll give it nine months and they will be recruiting.

rammel

23rd May 2006, 00:17

Did anyone see the latest Friday Flyer? It had a bit about QF being at the employment expo (or something) in ADL as an employer of choice, for engineering and pilots. My first thoughts were WHAT THE ****! They're kidding themselves aren't they.

soldier of fortune

23rd May 2006, 08:27

in regards to the extended 12 hour roster and night shift -if you don't want to work it -take your package Woomera EDIT.
some of you guys are comming over to ACS as DMMs and SNRs and thats great- and good luck to the rest of the HM lame's that are lucky enough to be successfullin obtaining a position in ACS. but you know what roster's we work-and you have heard about the lame less tarmac that the company is trying to push-its a gamble each way.- the work load is becomming more and more heavy for us in ACS on nightshift-if you arn't up to it -don't come across -otherwise stop your complaining -and except the position you have beem offerd-
and another thing -i feel sorry for some of the young LAME's that have missed out on ACS- because some the guys comming over to ACS -especially to syd domestic/base maint are a waste of time.
and note i said -SOME of the guys

Take it easy S.O.F. Woomera (Eastern States)

domo

23rd May 2006, 09:10

Heard today of six leading hands positions available in base five will be filled by ex heavy maintenance people

Turbo 5B

23rd May 2006, 09:12

We know what shifts you work ******** (said with the utmost respect), we understand that, we don't want to lumbered with a shift that you don't currently work.

qf 1

23rd May 2006, 10:24

Soldier of Fortune why don't you wake up to yourself,if these guys take these positions on a salary basis what do you think will be coming your way.It's not the shift that these guys have a problem with,it's the lose of conditions d!ckhead,if you could only see me rubbing my 2 fingers together you would see the world's smallest violin playing for you.You guys are finally having to work a full shift,get over it,you are payed for the 12 hrs you work, so work them.
Finally you made a call about how some of the guys coming over to Domestic you wouldn't rate,what is the problem you have with these guys,is it the fact these guys are more capable on the job than yourself(remember heavy maint is where the aircraft gets pulled apart and rebuilt),what is it you do ,push backs and wheel changes,no wonder Qantas is going to a lameless tarmac.
It's this very attitude of yours that has been to the detrement of H.M(lack of support from you guys in ACS),now the company is about to turn on the rest of you,wake up to yourself or your days within engineering as you know it will also end SOON.

Woomera Edit: I know what you guys are going through at the moment. You would be better served by directing your anger in a different directiion. Not at each other. If you can't or won't, you won't be welcome here anymore.

Bumpfoh

23rd May 2006, 13:20

qf1,

I neither support nor disagree woth S of F's comments however I detect a considerable chip on your shoulder. A/C transits and wheel changes are but only two of the numerous facets of terminal and servicing duties. Dare I suggest you have an inferiority complex that would show up like dogs nuts outside of your HM comfort zone.:=

Remember we are all LAME/AME's at the end of the day and should be closing ranks at a time like this at QF.:ok:

qf 1

23rd May 2006, 19:48

sorry i forgot brake changes and lubes,it's a bit late for closing ranks

Turbo 5B

23rd May 2006, 21:21

Speaking from a H/M point of view, it's not a inferiority complex, it's an aversion to smarmy aerosexual tossers (s.a.ts) that abound in the ranks of Sydney ACS. Comfort zone, maybe? But I can see a lot of uncomfortable s.a.ts around as they see their "world about to be invaded by the riff raff.

Woomera

23rd May 2006, 22:35

I'm glad you chose to delete your last post, Soldier of fortune. I'm not going to repeat what you wrote.
This is your last warning, ALL OF YOU. You were welcomed here (on what's essentially a pilots' forum) to discuss work issues. As engineers, your input is valued by pilots, and IMHO adds to the value of D&G.

The one thing the Woomera will not allow is personal insults, profanities OR THREATS OF VIOLENCE.

You have a very simple choice: Either revert to posting in a professional manner (some of you do), or we will close this, and any subsequent threads that even remotely appear as Australian engineering issues.

It's your choice.........:suspect:

Woomera (Eastern States)

N.E.R.D.

24th May 2006, 07:17

Fellow Qantas engineers. The fight is with the company!
Regardless of the area we work in. The argument of Heavy vs Line is a pointless exercise when all departments are faced with a combative management team trying to devide us and drive down our working conditions and remuneration.
The slagging off between departments will only give the impression to outsiders that we are not ALL PROFESSIONALS, dedicated to aircraft safety.

domo

24th May 2006, 11:08

I would like to welcome our heavy maintenance brothers to acs
things are done different here to what you are used to
just relax and try to fit in, leave your egos at the door
and let darwins theory of natural selection work
we will see where everone is next year
cream always rises to the top

Brake Boy

24th May 2006, 11:54

Unfortunately the mentallity demonstrated within this forum was demonstrated at the last EBA.

We are no longer Engineers working for QF. We have been led down the path of us and them by the company, which in my opinion has allowed the demise of QANTAS Heavy Maintenance in the first place.

Had we have all focussed our energy on the true 'enemy' we might have seen a very different work environment to the one we face now.

Back to the Topic at hand....

The offers came out for Sydney based positions and has been completely messed up. Some guys have been offered 2 jobs whilst others haven't been offered anything (except the door). According to HR this is a mistake and is to be rectified.

Always stand to be corrected

BB

Turbo 5B

24th May 2006, 12:18

Why thankyou Domo, but if i join ACS i'll take my ego in with me as "EGO is not a dirty word".
I think our biggest problem will be with "not" rectifying defects. Apparently they get deferred or have MEL's applied or something. That will be the biggest culture shock.

domo

24th May 2006, 12:27

lets put all this them and us to rest
I hope the redeployments are done and no body is forced out the door
the golden days are over it just a job,but the only job some of us know
the boot is on the other foot(employers)
we have to be flexible to save jobs later on the tide will change we will have our revenge then
as for our bosses i hope they can live with themselfs

PS turbo its hard to fix defects if geoff does not buy parts also the time frame to fix is shorter and the a/c is not grounded to fix every snag hence MEL's on a personel level welcome aboard if you care to join us

PSS ego is a nice word for attitude

PSSS QF1 im not a top gun anymore just a qantas loser but im over it the cream comment is open you can read it both ways if you belive in youself you may be my boss next year

qf 1

24th May 2006, 12:30

domo i thought only sh!t rises to the top,good luck to you top guns

Turbo 5B

24th May 2006, 12:33

I agree with your sentiments Domo. As for the bosses... guys that I work with have said that they no longer had any trust in our management. I fact a number were so disgusted by what they saw`as betrayal and deciet that they could no longer work for the flying rat. These were people that gave a lot for qantas and did not ask for much in return. These guys were in positions of supervision and were well respected. (Not just in line 1 but from fibreglass and sheetmetal as well).
The problem with not fixing defects is that eventually someone has to. Who is left to do that now?

Hey QF1, have you had a big love in in the carpark with soldier of fortune yet?
I think he's keen on you?
I wonder if he realises that you are 6'4" and as angry as Russell Crowe in Romper Stomper.

domo

24th May 2006, 12:49

I think SoF and QF1 might park in different car parks

Turbo 5B

24th May 2006, 12:57

Where does sof park? qcc1?
And if you've got an ego you should keep it in good shape, excercise it daily and get it down on tape.

qf 1

24th May 2006, 13:00

FACK him and the assoc he rode in with,i'll get him in the hip pocket,i'll be casting my vote soon for the ALAEA elections and the same useless twits that got as into this situation will be getting my vote.

domo

24th May 2006, 13:03

turbo do you realy care, wombat wants us to be nice to each other
I hate to see u suspended and have to use an alias

Turbo 5B

24th May 2006, 13:04

Spoken like a true gentleman QF1.
ps Norton 2006 if possible?
Cheers.

Turbo 5B

24th May 2006, 13:24

Actually I think I'm over the whole thing.
When I've had enough for sure I'll let every one know.

BHMvictim

24th May 2006, 13:31

Best of luck to my ex commrades in Heay maintenance Sydney. I flew into sydney a few weeks back, and as the plane passed over Hangar 245, I felt sad to know that a top bunch of blokes had all be screwed over. In my 13 years at Qantas, I have never felt like leaving until I moved to Brisbane. Things have changed. People will argue that it's just the way things are, but I don't believe so.

13 years ago, when I was a dumb pimple faces apprentice, we still had the same defects as we do today. Those same defects happen in 2006 and still have to be fixed. Mind you, the CEO and all his underlings were on a hell of a lot less than they are now. I remember looking in the old parts ordering thing on the computers back in '93 and seeing that John wards' car was a holden statesman. Things have improved in leaps and bounds for management. Things have gradually worsened for the worker.

Is this right? I think not.

To hell with you Dixon. Your day will come. Once there is no meat left on the bone, how will you answer to your shareholders?

qf 1

24th May 2006, 21:30

S of F if your looking for me on base today i will be the one wearing the SYMANTEC cap

company_spy

25th May 2006, 01:18

With the majority of positions in ACS so far going to HM supervisors is it little wonder the guys are peed off. Haveing overseered the demise of HM is it now their intention to work their magic in ACS? The workplace changes and improvements obviously mean nothing to management so bring in a new team, slash and burn a bit more until there is no more room for improvement and then sell off the rest of the buisness because its uneconomical. A lot of changes for everone. Get used to it or get out.:suspect:

numbskull

25th May 2006, 04:52

There are certainly a lot of acting senior LAMES/senior LAMEs/supervisors who are very disillusioned about the heavy guys getting the large majority of supervisory positions in Base Maintenance.

All of these guys have been doing the job for years and they don't even get a look in for promotion in their own section.

Progression is slow at the best of times and with very little training forecast, the mood is very glum.

I'm afraid its every man for himself these days and I would't be expecting the heavy guys to receive a lot of assistance from the Base people who perceive themselves to be done out of a promotion.

Well done QF. You have succesfully disposed of half your LAME workforce and completely disillusioned the other half.

domo

25th May 2006, 05:17

the new leading hands will remove the job cards place them on a board.
hand out the cards to suitable licenced enginners. when completed they will be moved to the completed rack.

any technical problems solutitons will be found in AMM
leading hands will not leave card crib
aircraft to be completed befour moving to next aircraft
this is how acs will work in future

BHMvictim

25th May 2006, 05:31

any technical problems solutitons will be found in AMM

So where do you currently find solutions to technical problems?

Silverado

25th May 2006, 06:04

QF1,

ACS guy's aren't happy about the supervisory positions going to HM guys, but you seem to have the ****'s with all of ACS? Is this just because you haven't been offered anything? I hope you do get offered an ACS position so you can eat some humble pie, when you find out what the ACS guy's really have to do day to day.
I have no doubt the HM guys coming over are capable. Your all welcome and I think you'll find there's already plenty of ex-HM guy's, esp in Base ACS who have made the move and adjusted to ACS life.

I know the way you currently work is S_L_O_W and methodical, which may suit the HM operation, but I think you'll find ACS get's alot of work done in the time given and it wont take you guy's long to get up to speed with a little support.

The Snr LAME's and Supervisors though, may find support a little thin on the ground.

In regard's to 12hr shifts, you just try and work 12hr shifts consistently with only two 26 min breaks and see how you cope, and go ahead and try to have your two breaks at the same time every shift. What's that? the A/C has to depart at 11 and you want the engine run done at 10, my twenty 26 min break starts now at ten, sorry it will have to be late!

How many time's have you started at six and had your first break at 1.30!
Hey the next day might be pretty light and be able to have three breaks, it's called flexibility!

BHMvictim

25th May 2006, 07:25

Geezuz! Having worked in Base maintenance and terminal during my apprenticeship and on one or two swaps for a few months, I must say the work is no more or less challenging than it is in Heavy maintenance. (From an avionics point of view, anyway). We do not work slowly in heavy. We also have time constraints at the end of the check, and usually, that's when problems show up.

I can't understand this bickering over who is more of a "gun"... the base/acs engineer or the heavy engineer.

There are guns in Heavy, there are guns in base, there are guns on line....
likewise, each section has its share of oxygen thieving drop kicks too.

P.S. Will a Woomera ban me again for this post? I used the word "gun" four times. :uhoh:

Woomera

25th May 2006, 07:56

P.S. Will a Woomera ban me again for this post? I used the word "gun" four times.
No, because you didn't have it pointed at anyones head....This time:8

Woomera (Eastern States)

AN LAME

25th May 2006, 11:36

There are guns in Heavy, there are guns in base, there are guns on line....
likewise, each section has its share of oxygen thieving drop kicks too.

Probably the most accurate statement in this whole sorry saga

numbskull

25th May 2006, 12:31

I can't agree more.

Its just a pity too many oxygen thieves are staying, too many guns are going and too many worthy of promotion are being passed over.

qf 1

25th May 2006, 12:41

Silverado get over yourself,first off i haven't but in for redopleyment because i have had a gut full of Qantas,i'm moving onto bigger and better things,and yes we do things methodically so you guys in Base have it easier with fleet reliability,so once you start to recieve those aircraft from Avalon,China,Singapore and where ever the hell else keith decides to send the aircraft,your breaks should get even less.
As for the seniors coming over to ACS and taking your positions well thats GREAT because these people have allready proven themselves for years in their current department and positions as seniors( GET OVER YOURSELVES )
And lastly if you are stupid enough to work through your breaks well you truely are a bit THICK.BYE

Woomera Edit. Strike 3, you're out!

qf 1

25th May 2006, 12:55

hay why don't all you hot shots in ACS apply for those Senior positions down at Avalon,they would love all that experience you guys claim to have,if your all so hot they should snap you up quick smart,there is still another 20 senior positions left

Turbo 5B

25th May 2006, 12:57

OUCH!
Some raw nerves exposed here.
Anyone in ACS that is unhappy with snrs from heavy getting to apply for a snrs position in ACS is wellcome to swap places with me in heavy maintenance and apply from there.
QF1 dont forget symantec.
AMM, FIM, DDG,srm, boeing fleet, its all just manual reading.
ps Silverado , if you dont like the shift put your hand up and take a break frm the rat race.:{

ALAEA

25th May 2006, 22:59

it looks like QF 1 needs a reality check,the company doesn't need the likes of him,good ridenance

rudderless1

26th May 2006, 00:11

Ahh, there is such strength in unity. If you think someone is so much better off apply for that position or make your own better. Knifing your comrades will not help.
Are you in denial that we are all made up of each other, and that we all need each other? Sadly Line guys will now receive the problems of outsourced Heavy Maint. Not by there choice either. Even twits would not want it this way.
There are plenty of ex heavy blokes in Line, and in the past Line guys have joined Heavy to avoid bad shifts. Are you all that proud to have your strings well and truly played by Geoff and co to destroy your own? Sadly this culture has manifested so badly delusional d##k h#### see it as the only way to get ahead is to suck up to this deceitful and criminal mismanagement in this dog eat dog department/ airline. :ugh:
Embarrass the management for their poor skill, really are they that thick or is it just short-sighted greed?
You currently have the opportunity to now elect a new exec who will actually support its members. Given the poor position they have been left with it will not be easy, but at least it will be with sincerity, unity and directed for the members. Maybe even return the industry to a place enjoyable to work.:ok:

Silverado

26th May 2006, 04:41

qf1,

I agree with your thoughts on avalon and O/S MRO's, we already get A/C straight out of a HM check with defects that should have been fixed.

I didn't say the senors coming to ACS haven't proven themselves, but it is a different ball game that takes time to adjust, with out any support it will take them awhile.

This is one comment from an ACS supervisor "bring the seniors over as LAME's and if they show they have the mustard, then they will be promoted before long anyway"

The seniors in ACS wouldn't have a clue how to run a crew in HM except the ex HM guys.

If all the guy's in base dropped their tools and went for their break at the allocated time every day, Base would be facing closure aswell.
Base isn't safe, that's why all has to be done to be competitive.
I saw the writing on the wall in HM six years ago, I wasn't going down with a sinking ship and I sure as hell am going to try to keep ACS afloat.

Anyway goodluck to all you guys finding life after Qantas. Its a shame a good product wasn't enough to keep SYD HM open.

company_spy

27th May 2006, 08:48

Why are so many of the positions availible in Avv and line not open to Base personel? Why were the HM guys given assistance with resume writing, interview techniques and such when this assistance wasn't given to Base. While I sympathise with HM and their predicament shouldn't the best person for the job be employed not the person with the best interview technique. It was plain to see that most of the jobs were going to go to HM so why make people jump through hoops when there was no chance of them being selected.:*

Apophis

27th May 2006, 09:15

Its not what you know its which arse you kiss and how hard you kiss it and theres some real arse kissing going on at AVV.:ok:
And Re : HM guys given assistance with resume writing who do QF think all these guy,s are going to be able to submit these to.

chemical alli

27th May 2006, 10:06

may all the heavy guys have all the help they need in their new positions.But to sit here and read the absolute backstabbing and bitching over job offers gets my goat .If you dont want a job then you can take your money and run, but dont expect a sympathetic ear from any acs guys that have just been shafted royally after umpteen years of nightshift and loyalty to what will now become a section of cant do.the anomosity will surely pass and you will be welcomed into the 4 am rituals of sleep deprivation with open arms. just have the right answers when your aircraft cant make sched
cheers

Turbo 5B

27th May 2006, 10:41

I think you'll find that a large amount of the backstabbing and bitching is coming from your camp. Probably caused by 4am sleep deprivation.
Also it was Great to see Keith Clarke having his photo taken last night as we pulled the last A/C out of the Hangar. It was him and the HR Bimbo's.
He didn't offer any of the troops a photo op. Nothing like a good gloat from the top.

Brake Boy

27th May 2006, 11:39

I really hope no one who wants a job is shown the door.

Not wanting to fuel the fire of HM vs ACS apparently some managers are not impressed by the calibre of applicants for ACS jobs.

Not sure how they come to this conclusion, but rumour has it that the number of EOI received will not be filled with HM staff.

Typical QANTAS. People that want to work may lose their jobs, whilst people who dont want to work for them anymore will be kept on.

Hope that all our HM colleagues get what they want

Turbo 5B

27th May 2006, 11:48

With unstable lunatics like Mr (Lack of )Styles running the show is it any wonder why the whole process is stuffed?

BHMvictim

27th May 2006, 15:13

Why were the HM guys given assistance with resume writing, interview techniques and such when this assistance wasn't given to Base.

Perhaps, because they are the ones who are losing their jobs.

It was plain to see that most of the jobs were going to go to HM

Perhaps, because they are the ones who are losing their jobs.

Thought it was obvious!:ugh:

BHMvictim

27th May 2006, 15:22

Also it was Great to see Keith Clarke having his photo taken last night as we pulled the last A/C out of the Hangar. It was him and the HR Bimbo's.
He didn't offer any of the troops a photo op. Nothing like a good gloat from the top.

Turbo. Looks like the good old Woomera has struck again and deleted a thread I started :oh: I wonder why?

I'll ask the question again here instead. Why was Keith called back to Sydney for an "urgent matter", the moment he touched down in Brisbane on Friday morning??

I was so looking forward to seeing him in Brisbane. Each time I meet him he asks me "how is everything going"? I was not going to Bull:mad: to him this time. Was going to express my disgust at the treatment of those in sydney.

Oh well.... the opportunity may arise again soon!

company_spy

28th May 2006, 10:05

BHM would it not be better to have the best person for the job employed or better still fill the positions from ACS first and any positions left let them apply then not "lets feel sorry for them" so give them first choice. Not lock everyone else out of positions. The odds were stacked pretty much against the guys in ACS with HR polishing the Heavy guys resumes and interview techniques, then running the interviews and in some cases Heavy Management carrying out interviews, you tell me if that is a fair selection process.:mad:

Turbo 5B

28th May 2006, 11:41

The selections were out of the hands of heavy maintenance.
That came from one of the managers.
The selection criteria was based on a 50 point system.
a score of 1-5 for years of service. ie 1 to 5 yrs = 1 point etc.
Then points were awarded for licences held, scored up to 25points.
The last 20 points were on the interview.
If you were a single licenced lame even with 20 years experience you were on the back foot from the start.
Resumes werent required to be submitted for an Expression Of Interest in a position in ACS, wether that be for a Lame on the tools or a Snr Lame or supervisor.
Tell me Mr Company Spy (alias Servicing whinger) if Cox decides to reduce the Lame numbers by two thirds (as has been rumoured) in ACS would you aply for redeployment in another area as an AME or a LAME?
My guess would be LAME, as I can't imagine you wanting to go backwards in your career. Then why the Hell should the Snr Lames in Heavy maint be expected to happily step backwards to suit your aspirations of leadership.
I have seen some of the most experienced leaders who are abolutley brilliant technically and have lead for almost 20 years get offered a job back on the tools. It's enough to make you sick.

domo

28th May 2006, 11:52

how about you turbo
any offer yet

Silverado

28th May 2006, 12:13

OK Turbo 5B,

It's a hard one for all to agree on the Snr LAME and higher positions. But how about the ACS LAMES who would have liked to change locations, say move from Base to CNS, or perhaps PER to SDT, they didn't get a look in.

Would you agree it would have been fairer if all who expressed interest were considered and the best person for the job was taken. The same number of HM LAME's would have found jobs.

Turbo 5B

28th May 2006, 21:00

I saw a notice from Peter Styles asking for expressions of interest from ACS staff interested in Other Ports. Applications closed on Friday.
And anyway what makes you think that after a week or two on the job that an engineer from Sydney Heavy couldn't do as good a job on a line station as an ex servicing engineer?
Fairness doesn't come into it, a section is being made redundndant and it is those staff who are to be redeployed not staff from any section that just happen to want a new lifestyle.
When H/M line 2 relocated to BNE the ones that didn't go north moved straight into line 1 including into snr positions that had been occupied by actors for a long time, and those actors did not get a chance to apply for those positions.
As for an offer, I was told in interview that they would be in a position to let me know by the 15th of May. it is now the 29th of May and I have not been contacted to let me know either way...typical Qantas Hr style.
That mob couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery.
Thanks for asking Domo.

domo

28th May 2006, 22:54

you can only hope the acs to other ports is to free up sydney jobs for heavy
as thats where most want to stay.
the notice came out thursday replys to be in friday
so much for talking over a life changing decision with the wife
good luck to all heavy maintenance personel we all disagree with what happened

Redstone

28th May 2006, 23:06

Turbo, has there been any word from on high about further A/C to go through H245? I know the last A/C was supposed to be it, but with the way they are procrastinating, any final decisions/announcements on redeployment could be a while off yet.......

Looks like the Assn has got clarification from the company with regards to the letter that the first lot of guys were presented to sign for their redeployment, all are to remain on current employment conditions. Thats got to be good news!

It seems that the bickering shows no sign of abating, management would be loving that. United we stand, divided we fall........ seems we are staring over the precipice:( !

fordran

29th May 2006, 06:45

"It seems that the bickering shows no sign of abating, management would be loving that. United we stand, divided we fall........ seems we are staring over the precipice"
Well the bickering is about to end. The old gaurd intend to re-employ Mr potato head at the Assn after they are re-elected. He will sort things out.

domo

29th May 2006, 07:10

Well the bickering is about to end. The old gaurd intend to re-employ Mr potato head at the Assn after they are re-elected. He will sort things out

Hail Mr. Potato head
the savior of the LAME' s
come the moment come the man
this **** would never gone down if potato was in charge

Mr Qantas

29th May 2006, 11:01

smart move to get an ex Qantas manager on alaea side. He nows the ins and outs of both sides and gets along well with our asociation people. I dont have a problem with the interview process why should we just take the men with the longest service when we have some exellent young lames who are willing to put Qantas before anything else. The ACS transfer to outstations is another opportunity to share the jobs around anyone who nows they want to move to another port doesnt need a month to think about it. Just get on with it we need to move forward and get the airline running as afficient is possible or else there will be more job losses if we cant keep in front of the competetors.

Turbo 5B

29th May 2006, 11:09

Have heard no news of more A/C coming in.

domo

29th May 2006, 11:21

why should we just take the men with the longest service when we have some exellent young lames who are willing to put Qantas before anything else.

Because mr qantas that is the sprit of the eba

numbskull

29th May 2006, 11:52

Why would excellent young LAMES want to stay in a company that won't train or promote them????

The only ones that are staying are those that are too old to try something new or those in too much debt to take the risk.

company_spy

30th May 2006, 02:00

Turbo, if I had missed out on selection you could call it sour grapes, however as I have had enough of acting like a trained seal at interviews I did not apply for any positions. My position is that there were enough competant people already filling those positions. Those people that missed out are entitled to feel disgruntled. Over the years there have been a handful of people in supervisory positions who have moved from Heavy to ACS, with the exception of maybe 3 foremen none have gone directly to a SNR LAME position. Once they have proven themselves in ACS let them apply for whatever position they want. The stench of nepotism was starting to clear, when the only path to success depended on how well you used a pair of chopstix, these appointments will see a return to the bad old days. If I may digress for a minute , the rumored return of Mr Potato Head would be another nail in the coffin of the Association and LAME's in general.
A greater concern than the lack of opportunities to young LAME's is that of the AME/Apprentice. These are the future LAME's so if they don't have a future not only will their be no young LAME's their won't be to many old LAME's left.

Turbo 5B

30th May 2006, 05:21

The AME'S and Apprentices have been ordered to go to the Bankstown holding yards to come and back fill the Lame postions in acs in a year or two.
How many Snr Lames from Heavy have applied for snr positions in acs over the years.... none probably, that would be why they haven't gone straight into those positions. I can't think of any that have even left the section to go to acs.How many interviews have you had Spy and for what positions?
Nepotism is when you see an apprentice go to servicing and turn tradesman one month and have him back in heavy 3 months later getting soe for the 747 400 licence course that he just sat (company provided) and have to instruct the little b@rsted on how to do the basics on a jumbo whilst you've been waiting for several years to get a course.
How did he get the course..don't know but his old man works for the company in a first floor position, could be a coincident.That's nepotism for you.
If i'm wrong about no snrs from heavy going to base maint (acs)over the years send me a pm telling me who.

BHMvictim

30th May 2006, 06:25

Turbo, what you just posted highlights an important fact.
Appretices, and a good number of AME's in Base maintenance, recieved all their in depth training in Heavy maintenance. Myself, for example, learnt how to find my way around Chapter 20 in mods. Likewise, I learnt a great deal about tooling and SYSTEMS in Heavy.
From memory, in base/line, I learnt quick fixes and what part number light globes to fit in various locations.
Quote from an Line Avionics LAME to the toolcrib operator:
"I need the crimp tool for fire loop connectors"
Toolcrib operator:
"RB211 or CF6"?
Line Avionics LAME:
"I don't know"
Toolcrib operator:
"what's the rego"?
Line Avionics LAME:
"OJ#"
Toolcrib operator:
"That's an RB211. You will have to look up the tooling in Chapter 20"
Line Avionics LAME:
"We don't have time for that kind of thing"
.... this is an actual example of what I once experienced whilst at the toolcrib counter. Looking up the tooling takes less than 2 minutes. What the line LAME meant to say was "I don't know how to use chapter 20".
It's not his fault, it's just the nature of the game in Base/Line.

satmstr

30th May 2006, 07:45

The AME'S and Apprentices have been ordered to go to the Bankstown holding yards to come and back fill the Lame postions in acs in a year or two.

Turbo 5B, dont know were you got that info from about the apprentices going to bankstown to HOLD for a while and come back to ACS :confused:, and then comming back and filling LAME postions when they have had no experience on the A/C due to there "permanent holding" at Bankstown, as usual i would beleive it when i see it.

From memory, in base/line, I learnt quick fixes and what part number light globes to fit in various locations
Come on BHMvictim, maybe thats all you did in base maint when you were down there when you were an apprentice i know when i was an apprentice i did a lot more than that!!, but i am sick and tired of people saying that is all those guys do down there is change light globes, how about the "a" checks, engine changes, system troubleshooting, atlas mod, and certain fixing of stuff ups from our so called centre of excellence from down south, etc etc and yes BHMvictim i can agree with you that we have some very special people down there if you know what i mean that cant look up chapter 20 and yes it is there fault they should know how to access that stuff and they have also had the same in Hvy maint aswell, there has been some special people there aswell but thankfully only a small majority in both area's , cya satmstr

company_spy

30th May 2006, 08:15

Yes there are some engineers in all sections who could'nt find their way out of a car park with a map, however the ones I have worked with in ACS do a lot of excellent work(troubleshooting, mods etc)and no I'm not a conehead! If all you did was change was change a light bulb then you wasted your time there.
The AME's who were sent to Bankstown have a snowball's chance in hell of getting out of there and back to Mascot. All the good work they have put in durring their apprenticeship is wasted, hopefully the good ones will find a better place to work the ones left will probably be the dregs and if there are any positions left in Sydney those are the ones who will get them, not the deserving ones.:sad:

Apophis

30th May 2006, 09:50

RE:and certain fixing of stuff ups from our so called centre of excellence from down south,

One of the departments down there is about to have there work contracted out to an outside company that will work on the airport in QF hangar.

Turbo 5B

30th May 2006, 10:13

The so called ames that put in all that good work during their apprenticeships also include 40 and 50 yr old ames that have had extensive aircraft work and in several cases that i know have all their basics and have their soe books filled out. several have even completed 744 type courses off their own backs.
These blokes haven't even been offered a spot near an a/c despite having 20 to 30 yrs experience on engines and airframes, in fact some of these guys **** all over some of the multi licenced lames, they were comfortable as ames some not wanting licences due to not wanting the increased responsibility or not feeling comfortable enough to do the study etc,language barriers etc.Another waste of talent..(not every one needs to be licenced).As for the dregs, in my experience in QF the dregs sometimes have a nasty habit of rising back to the top like scum does.
BHM our tool crib operators normally only do that to people they have no respect for, there's an orange haired avionics mullet in acs in particular that they have taken a dislike to because of his attitude.
As for the holding yard, it's not information it's a theory.
Its what I would do if I was trying to reduce the Lame numbers in stages and waiting for the opportunity to use the new work place relations laws and changing CASA regs to assist me.
How would you do it?
Especially if your task was to reduce the cost of your "Business Unit" to the bare minimum that was legally allowed.
Would you reduce your Lame numbers to the minimum?
Would you start employing new starters on an approval system?
Would you offer spots to previously experienced ames in ACS with an approval?If so where would you get them from?

BHMvictim

30th May 2006, 10:55

BHM our tool crib operators normally only do that to people they have no respect for, there's an orange haired avionics mullet in acs in particular that they have taken a dislike to because of his attitude.

Think you got the wrong end of the stick Turbo. In the incident I refered to, the toolcrib operator knew there was a difference in tooling depending on the engine type... the base LAME did not! (His attitude was quite arrogant toward the toolcrib operator as I remember. He was also not long out of his apprenticeship)

company_spy

30th May 2006, 11:04

Turbo, you are correct in saying that a lot of good ame's have been lost but this has gone on for the past 30 years. Whenever numbers needed to be reduced it was always the ame's who paid the price. Being sent to the Prop Shop, Wheel Bay, Survival the list goes on. The ALAEA is just as much to blame for their plight as the company is, if you have been to any of the pay restructure meetings you'll know what I mean, but just because you wear 1, 2 or 3 stripes on your shoulder shouldn't make you immune from redundancy. If packages come round again in 6, 12 or 18 months more people will leave, the same crap will be here, perhaps those who leave now will have been the smart ones. Next time it will probably be SIT or SDT or Base who are culled.
The cystal ball is a lot murkier than it used to be.:(

Turbo 5B

31st May 2006, 00:06

Yeh sorry BHM, I was just having a go at the mullet that I mentioned, I understood your point.
The crystal ball has turned to marble.

Redstone

1st Jun 2006, 11:35

I believe the second round came today, were there many positions offered?

Turbo 5B

1st Jun 2006, 20:57

I didn't get a phone call, so I don't know, sorry.

Brake Boy

2nd Jun 2006, 04:12

From what I understand management have concerns over whether Avalon and Brisbane can handle the workloads they have been given, whilst also keeping their public promise to keep the work in Australia.

The guys that were to be posted interstate are hoped to be reassigned to these facilities to assist with the amount of work they have on.

Just a rumour but sounds about right!

chockchucker

2nd Jun 2006, 05:54

Rumor floating around today suggests that all offers of VR to line guys in Melbourne (Tulla) have been withdrawn until all positions in Avalon have been filled.

This would suggest an attempt by management to force as many disaffected people from Sydney down to Avalon as possible. Maybe due to CASA suggesting to Qantas that there weren't enough LAME's at Avalon.(now fancy that!)

Sure to be dissappointing news for all the blokes at Tulla who had their eye on a golden handshake.

Turbo 5B

2nd Jun 2006, 08:40

Peter Styles said the same thing last week. I can't recall if if it was overheard or he actually said it to someone that "No body from heavy gets a port until BNE and AVV gets filled"
Good "people" manager that one.

Apophis

2nd Jun 2006, 09:09

Who do they think will move to avalon when it could face the same fate as SYD in a year.:=

Turbo 5B

2nd Jun 2006, 11:06

Not this little black duck!

domo

5th Jun 2006, 07:48

Every heavy maintenance person get a job offer?

Turbo 5B

5th Jun 2006, 11:22

Not that i have seen or heard.

The Bungeyed Bandit

6th Jun 2006, 05:30

Apophis

6th Jun 2006, 06:40

Is that Forestaff , Forstaff , or Forshaft.

Redstone

6th Jun 2006, 06:41

Bungeye, there was a group from within Line 1 that were getting a business case together to do just that! Only problem is there are not enough arms and legs left to accomplish/support said checks. The farm has been sold and the horses well and truly bolted.........

Turbo 5B

6th Jun 2006, 09:54

I think that forestaff has been taken over by a different company and has a different name now. Does anyone know if this is the case?

BHMvictim

6th Jun 2006, 10:36

Anyone else heard the rumour that after the dust settles from Heavy Maintenance SYD shutdown that Forestaff is going to move into H245 and start doing Half C and A Checks. Apparently QF Management can't bear the thought of leaving H245 empty when they can lease it out to a third party and pay them to maintain their A/C. Can only assume Base Maint SYD will be next on the chopping block.

If this is the case then thanks must go to the ALAEA for being instrumental in the demise of Line 1 heavy maintenance!

The ALAEA assisted enormously in setting up avalon with forstaff employees....seems that that mistake is set to become even bigger than first envisaged.

Incompetent? Corrupt? Both!!

domo

6th Jun 2006, 10:59

turbo they still got a web site
www.forstaffaviation.com
according to their website the need lames and ame mechanical for avalon
according to www.mycareer.com.au they have no vacancies

Turbo 5B

6th Jun 2006, 11:06

Intrigueing(is that how you spell it?).
What does it mean?

the shaman

6th Jun 2006, 12:07

Forstaff have changed their name, can't remeber what it is but noticed it when looking on their website the other day.

would not surprise me one bit if there was move to resume work in H245 with contract labor.

Anyone heard of the fate of (now ex) SYD HM managers..?? now that they have done the dirty work they will probably be shafted next.
:ugh:

Redstone

6th Jun 2006, 12:18

"Anyone heard of the fate of (now ex) SYD HM managers..?? now that they have done the dirty work they will probably be shafted next."

Not so sure Shaman, the company seems to have a limitless supply of positions in which to snooker away management types.

the shaman

6th Jun 2006, 21:30

hmmmm.. you are probably right about the snooker tactic redstone... i did hear at the last '100 managers meeting' about 150 turned up so we will see.. a few of them I would not let run an op shop..

also has anyone heard if the 'additional 1000 staff to go' had any effect on Engineering yet..??

Apophis

7th Jun 2006, 02:24

Forstaff changed to readyworkforce but AVV is still Forstaff its all the same in the end.

Turbo 5B

7th Jun 2006, 09:09

The only good news that I have heard is that the manager of GSE sydney got some sort of marching orders on Friday, so sad that I missed it.
Good luck to all the staff that don't have to work under that snake anymore.
Finally the "Penny" has been dropped.
The snr production manager has bee offered a job that he's not happy with so he has left allo the work of finding people positions to the production manager and he is mightily happy with him for doing that (not), however having said that the pm is doing the best he can and should be applauded.

BHMvictim

7th Jun 2006, 16:45

Turbo!!! You have just made my day! I have longed for the day when the Penny would be dropped!!!!! Hope they dropped it off H96 roof! GOOD RIDDANCE!

Redstone

7th Jun 2006, 21:40

Finally the "Penny" has been dropped.

Ahh how empires do but fall.

He will not be missed by any who had the misfortune of dealing with him.

Redstone

8th Jun 2006, 01:08

Anyone else heard the rumour that after the dust settles from Heavy Maintenance SYD shutdown that Forestaff is going to move into H245 and start doing Half C and A Checks.

Have heard the same rumour from a source outside QF. Presumably Forestaff would also have to scrounge up support shop staff as well, and possibly ppd staff. Is there enough of the farm left to resurrect H245?

qcc2

8th Jun 2006, 05:09

still sitting in the hangar in singapore. supposed to be ready on monday. loosing a few dollars not flying. as usual good management:ugh:

BHMvictim

8th Jun 2006, 13:57

Are you guys in Sydney having a party to celebrate the demise of the Penny empire? I would love to come laugh in that slimey b:mad: ards face

Redstone

9th Jun 2006, 06:20

Are you guys in Sydney having a party to celebrate the demise of the Penny empire? I would love to come laugh in that slimey b:mad: ards face

If the rumour is true, then the old cock has crowed his last!

So where does that leave the bespecticaled one who runs the tool crib?

Does he get to go as well:D

A.L.A.E.A. members Have a look at this thread about the up coming elections (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229627)

Turbo 5B

11th Jun 2006, 09:43

I hope he gets transferred to Avalon along with the rest of our "tools".
In a box marked "TOOL OF THE MONTH".

webber1

11th Jun 2006, 13:12

Anyone else heard the rumour that after the dust settles from Heavy Maintenance SYD shutdown that Forestaff is going to move into H245 and start doing Half C and A Checks. Apparently QF Management can't bear the thought of leaving H245 empty when they can lease it out to a third party and pay them to maintain their A/C. Can only assume Base Maint SYD will be next on the chopping block.
Perhaps they'll add H271 and H191 to the list of underutilised hangars.
If they're looking for volunteers .. to quote Mr Humphreys from Are you being served "I'm Free".

Apophis

12th Jun 2006, 01:40

I hope he gets transferred to Avalon along with the rest of our "tools".
In a box marked "TOOL OF THE MONTH".
They need someone new since the last guy robbed them blind.:ok:

Redstone

13th Jun 2006, 05:03

They need someone new since the last guy robbed them blind.:ok:

This is one thing management seem to be very good at. What they pay for tooling would make Ned Kelly proud :}

Apophis

13th Jun 2006, 06:57

Understand there is to be a mass meeting with Forstaff workers and Qantas Management from SYD at Avalon around the 26 of the month.:=

Redstone

14th Jun 2006, 07:23

Could be the big ultimatum. Have heard on the grape vine that the guys languishing without a job offer yet do so at His Majesty Keiths pleasure with a view to desperation luring them into BNE Heavy or Avalon.

chockchucker

14th Jun 2006, 07:39

I too thought that they were rather short of LAME's down at Avalon until I heard of a bloke, with EI&R on the 737 classic and NG, who was knocked back from a 12 month contract job on the freighter conversions due to being "not appropriately qualified".

Can't imagine too many blokes like that coming in off the street to offer their services to forshaft. Obviously, despite the complete shambles that has been their efforts with 737's to date, they've got it all covered down there in happy Avalon.

Redstone

14th Jun 2006, 08:06

It's the new world order Chock, and it's quite ironic that it was the alaea who were in it from the start........... they don't want LAMEs'. He was probably overqualified for an MRO like Avalon, way too many ratings. Now if he were un licenced he would probably have been snapped up!

Turbo 5B

14th Jun 2006, 09:38

The line one manager has tld the troops that if you want a snr lame job in AVV hurry up and put your hand up because if they don't get them from line 1 they'll have to open it up to forestaft. Maybe thet's what the meeting will be about.
The relocation package is a bit sad though, on another note.

Apophis

14th Jun 2006, 10:16

Turbo 5B

14th Jun 2006, 10:59

It's pay up front, a bit of rental assistance when you first start $105 a day for 5 days whilst you are looking for accomodation.
No transport for motorbikes, even if they are your main mode of transport.
They only transport 30 cubic metres.
"Don't be out of pocket" though was what the guys were told.

Apophis

15th Jun 2006, 02:05

With no g/tee as to what will happen at avalon a bit risky.

Turbo 5B

15th Jun 2006, 10:09

Actualy i'm suprised that they haven't opened up the snr Lame spots in AVV to ACS and line maintenance lames.
There seems to be a lot of aspirations within the ranks to fill the spots,or maybe they don't want to risk it either.

The Bungeyed Bandit

15th Jun 2006, 11:30

Or maybe they're not so desperate or pretentious enough to grasscut those who already work at AVV who aspire to go up in the ranks.

Turbo 5B

15th Jun 2006, 19:46

But those guys don't work for Qantas.How do you grasscut someone that doesn' work for the same company as yourself?

BHMvictim

16th Jun 2006, 18:02

My sentiments exactly Turbo.:ok:

Apophis

17th Jun 2006, 02:03

Some do some already think they do and some think they should !:{
And most should just get real they work for Forshaft and thats the fact.

inthefluffystuff

17th Jun 2006, 10:21

Apophis

I think you will find it is the 29th. and all shifts will be present, either good news or bad news with the cost of all being present?

Ah well Sydney guy's will feel happy if all gets Forshafted hey?

Apophis

17th Jun 2006, 10:43

The date seems to be floating some what who knows whats going on ?

Bolty McBolt

19th Jun 2006, 06:11

Latest news?

The fat controller of base maint will NOT release people to take transfers to Brisbane line. Says he can't spare them ??

Flow on effect of less jobs available for reduntant heavy Maint guys.

:(

Turbo 5B

20th Jun 2006, 11:19

Last of the ACS offers out today?
Winding up begins next week.
Time for some bad publicity for the Spirt of Australian business.

BHMvictim

21st Jun 2006, 12:36

Latest news?
The fat controller of base maint will NOT release people to take transfers to Brisbane line. Says he can't spare them ??

Hahaha really??? So they can spare them for Brisbane heavy but not line. BHM seems to be the only heavy maintenance area not to have redundancies offered. I'd guess that they would have a sea of hands in the air if they did so.
I'd hazzard to guess that there is another reason that there will be no transfers to BNE line. Mr Cousins does not like to spend the $$ to move people up. (That's the word around BHM anyway).

Silverado

21st Jun 2006, 13:31

Quote,

"This is to advise that after careful consideration by the ACS Sydney based
managers your request for transfer has been declined for operational
and/or licence coverage reasons.

Thank for the interest that you showed."

While most EOI from ACS sydney based guys have been hit on the head. There have been 5 offers to base guys, 3 Bne,1 Drw & 1 Per as far as I know.
I have heard SIT have had 5 offers for Bne? but can't confirm.