Lancaster info request

[jumpseater]

I saw this on the way from the school run today....

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/2012images/_B6O2895.jpg

The inscription reads:
3.12.43 200 yards from this cross, the crew of 9 Sqdn (Bardney) Lancaster DV334, crashed in fog, out of fuel, after surviving the horrors of a raid on Berlin, icing, flak, night fighters,

P/O Warwick
Flt SGT Butterfield
Sgt Graham
Sgt Jones
Sgt Davidson
Sgt Munn
458 aircraft on this sortie
40 failed to return

Can any pruners point me in the direction of more info? I do model making and I find that with more information on the subject its a more satisfying and interesting experience. I've done a quick web trawl but with no success, for example a picture would be ideal, but unlikely. I have no access to my 'library' at the mo, it's packed after a house move, so any on line links would be nice to see. Feel free to pm them if they're commercial though.
many thanks
js

edited re Munn

[jumpseater]

Many thanks Mike, interesting to see there were two survivors from a crew of eight, one more than the usual complement. I'll try and follow up the squadron archive's too. The war graves commission site is a sobering one.
js

[Brian Abraham]

DV334 was the third (of nine) Lancs to carry to carry WS-C. From 9 Sqdn (No 5 Group) based at Bardney. Crashed Markham Clayton while overshooting after returning from a raid on Berlin. 425 Lancs participated in raid of which 37 were lost. Squadron also lost DV332 (WS-D) that night, cited as "lost" so I presume shot down. Both Lancaster I's with Merlin 22's built by Metropolitan Vickers Manchester sometime between May and November 1943 in the DV155 - DV407 order. (Third production batch for 200 aircraft from M-Vickers under contract B69275/40 covered by works order GO.122194)

Dont ever ask a nutter a question.

[diginagain]

Nice touch, commemorating the tragic loss in this manner. I wonder if it may have been placed there by Linzee (the one who responded in the link posted above), as she has done the same at a number of crash sites, and the handwriting looks similar to one she placed commemorating the loss of a Halifax V LL414 in Glen Isla.

[diginagain]

That Linzee, indeed. Very keen on keeping the memories of lost aircrew to the fore. Spent an afternoon with her in the hills around Glenshee last year looking for bits of Halifax. Found some too. That's me holding some of LK901. Super young woman who deserves all the plaudits for her work.

[jumpseater]

Thanks again for your help, the location of the site as far as I can determine is at Milton, which also appears to be known as Markham Clinton. A local has given me an idea of the exact location, and was interested to know that there were 8 crew members on board too. He hadn't realised there were any survivors.
http://www.visitchurches.org.uk/GazatteerChurch.asp?ChurchID=g_252
The cross appears annually, and is placed by an unknown person, so I do wonder if there's a relative connection there. I'm intrigued by this so will have a look through the local library archives, as the accident was reported in the local press. Now I know the mark and batch I can start sorting out the general spec of the aircraft too. Not sure its the same handwriting on the cross', the fours are different styles and one slants left and one slants right, still interesting though!

(Yes Mike the dark side is now in Notts, it started near the home of the 125 EGTH, we moved so I brought it with me! The 'manager' used to work at Gamston, most expensive phone call I've ever made!)

[BSD]

What a wonderful story. I can only admire people who unselfishly give up their time to preserve the memory of others whose sacrifice on our behalf was colossal.

Out of fuel, confronted by fog, and unable to land, there is a heck of a story right there. Did they try to make an approach? did they elect to stay with the aeroplane rather than bailing out to avoid it crashing anywhere? Was it shot-up badly? Did they have wounded crewmembers aboard? Unbelievable, especially in the context of today's avaition. I'd love to know more.

I'm always impressed by the ability of the correspondent's on this site to find obscure detail, and put flesh on the bones of some of these stories.

Here's something that has intrigued me for years. Driving home from a spell in Newcastle a few years ago, I decided to break the journey by visiting the cemetery at Scopwick, just north of Cranwell and off the A1. It holds the grave of John Gillespie Magee, author of High Flight.

Magee's grave is just inside the gate on the left as you walk in, and surounded by other comonwealth airmen from Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. However, in the further reaches of the graveyard, on what I think is the eastern side are four German style headstones. They are up against the fence, and I think you can imagine they are looking out over the open farmland towards Germany.

They are all Luftwaffe graves, three of them having fallen on the same day in 1941, but the fourth, clearly, deliberately placed beside them is I believe an officer who was buried after the war must have ended in about 1946.

It was a few years ago that I made the visit, so the details may not be totally accurate, but there is obviously a story there. I'd love to know more.

Anyone?

[Simtech]

Most, if not all German burials in this country have been exhumed and reinterred at the Deutscher Soldatenfriedhoff on Cannock Chase in Staffordshire.

Incidentally, my uncle, F/Sgt H.P. Smith, was serving with IX Squadron at the time of this incident. He was the bomb-aimer in WS-O/LM432.

Edited for spelling

[Brian Abraham]

Spirits in Flight
I saw them return, seven spirits in flight,
Engines fired by the sparks of the night,
Lumbering, throbbing like a battered ghost,
So thankful for a friendly coast.

Glowing and gliding, a Lanc without sound,
The rubber screams as it kisses the ground,
Perfect touchdown on a deserted plain;
Now a cornfield, a field with no name.

Night after night, mission after mission;
Helmets, goggles, masks and ammunition,
The seven Sky Warriors from long past,
All knowing tonight could be their last.

I hear the field alive with noise,
Filled with brave men; some of them just boys,
I see them walk in their suits of leather,
Slowly and proudly they walk together.

Where their Lancs rose to meet the foe,
Now the larks rise, from their nests below,
Down the runway only peace is heard,
Save for the wind and the song of a bird.

Time passes, January to December,
From spring to winter the years drift on,
Every April, every Easter, I will remember
Cliff, Al, Pete and John -- Nick, Stan and Skipper Don.

By Eddy Coward dedicated to his brother Cliff and the crew of Lancaster LL899 of 49 Sqdn lost 12 April 1944.

[BSD]

Just back from a few days away.

Mike and Simtech, thanks for the links, and the reference to Cannock chase. I think theses graves are still there, the CWGC link Mike J. refers to suggests they are still there.

Brian thank you for the poem. There is a similar one on the military aircrew forum under "63 years ago tonight" entitled "Lie in the dark and listen" Similarly evocative and beautifully written. Reminds me in a strange way of a couple of Aussie ones that I love - " In the droving days" by the Banjo himself, and "The glass on the bar" which I think was anonymous.

[Pronto]

You might also like to have a look at the Squadron Operational Record Book which is available on microfilm in the Public Record Office Reading Room. This may well add some details and it can make quite poignant reading by its "matter of factness" and the small details it can record - weather conditions on the day of the raid, previous missions flown by crews &c.

[jumpseater]

Pronto, many thanks for that, have you or anyone here used the PRO facility? and if so how does it work? i.e do you have to book your request etc.
Have contacted the Sqdn historian to see if they have anything in their data today.
js

[Archimedes]

js,

if you go to this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=225059

I put some details on how to use the PRO [I still can't get used to the new name - National Archives...] in there (the last posting on the thread at the moment). You might find the links there useful, and the NA website should answer most queries.

[teeteringhead]

From here, it notes that DV334 had the markings WS-C. ... a slightly off-the-wall thought, but one wonders if there was any (intended or chance) connection with the wartime Prime Minister?

I have often seen pictures of official documents he initialled - with W S-C for Winston Spencer-Churchill. I understand it's also how he would refer to himself sometimes in notes or memos ....

[PPRuNe Pop]

I have to say that I am most moved by the posts in this thread, some of them stir the emotions and all them stir the senses. Indeed, it is from both these faculties, and that I lived throughout the war close to Croydon, I have the highest esteem and deepest gratitude to all those who gave their lives for us all who are alive today. Sadly, those feelings live on now, each day, each week on and on people give their lives for the common good.

This leads to me to think about Linzee, and people like her, dedicated to the memory of those who fell in open spaces, anywhere, but perhaps forgotten. Of our very own pundits like Mike Jenvey, Archimedes, ORAC and others who through their own interest are able to fill in so many gaps for people who NEED to know the fate of relatives or friends. It is truly remarkable to me that we have such people here on PPRuNe, perhaps two generations removed from such history, who care.

I wonder if we can expand this a little? I wonder if we might get behind some of the stories and air them here to show that they are NOT forgotten, a place where we feel as we do about our aviation brothers and sisters who died that we might live.

My thoughts - for now!

PPP

[jumpseater]

I will post the 'story' that I find with this incident. My interest is the eight crew, one more than normal for a Lancaster. I understand that familiarisation trips occaisionally took place before ops, to learn the ropes. They certainly did in the USAF Eighth Air Force, so the eighth man may have been on one of these trips. If so was he one of the survivors, was he lucky enough to survive any subsequent tours? Of the aircraft, how many ops had it done?, was it one of the veterans?, and was it named?, as many were. As it was a 9 Sqdn aircraft it may have had the bomb bay door modification for carrying Tallboys, that will make a difference to the fuselage shape. The last elements are for my interest in making a model of the aircraft.
Despite only being 44 I am only one generation away from WWII. My father was a policeman in Southampton during the war and he applied to the RAF for air gunner, but being police was in a reserved occupation, so they didnt let him go. I'm very concious that that reserved occupation may well be the reason I'm in existance. That probably give me a greater affinity than others of my age with the era and those sacrifices made, something I hope my daughters appreciate in time too.
js

[Pronto]

If you haven't already seen it, this set of pages from the IX Squadron Association website describes Lancaster crewing and operations.

http://www.association.9sqn.co.uk/lancaster.htm


P.

[jumpseater]

Pronto, hadn't found that one, so thank you very much!:ok: