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View Full Version : BA Dash 8 problems in MAN


hanover
15th May 2006, 20:01
On approach into manchester today we got chucked in the hold due to a BA Dash 8 having problems, it then made a Emergency landing at MAN.

Does anyone have any news???????

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO
16th May 2006, 09:21
A non event by any means as it landed and taxied to stand

G-I-B

Irish Steve
16th May 2006, 11:07
I was under the impression that this is, or was, a rumour and news forum.

Somehow, the first two posters seem to me to be poles apart. I have not looked at the profiles of either of them, and I should not need to as such.

The first makes what appears on the face of it to be a clear statement based on information that was pertinent at the time

it then made a Emergency landing at MAN.

The second then goes on to effectively rubbish that by saying

A non event by any means as it landed and taxied to stand


At the risk of appearing pedantic, I would respectfully suggest that if the BA crew of the Dash 8 declared an emergency, they AT THE TIME AND IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, did NOT regard is as a non event, if it had been a non event, they would either have just said they were returning with a problem, or declared a PAN. If they declared it as an emergency, then, in their view, at the time, and in accordance with their SOP's, they called it as they saw it and responded accordingly.

It may well be that they were able to land and taxy to stand, but that, again respectfully, is irrelevant to the point.

I am well aware that there are a lot of very sensitive people around here, and that there is a campaign to try to ensure that journalists and the like don't get information of the wrong kind from (hopefully) better informed sources. Accepted. At the same time, people who should know and understand do no favours to anyone by a throw away comment like the one above, and in many respects, that sort of attitude only serves to make journalists and the like even more suspicious and less inclined to trust what they are being told.

OK, in passing, maybe the wording is wrong, emergency is an emotive word, and perhaps implies a level of problem that may not be appropriate under all circumstances, but that's what we've got to work with, for all sorts of reasons, including the fact that the same word has to convey the same level of clarity in all languages. Emergency does however convey specific information that then alerts all concerned to the appropriate responses to the situation. The aircraft landed and made it's way to the stand without further visible problems. Good, that's the outcome everybody wants in the circumstances. However, if for whatever reason, that had not been the outcome, then the baying for heads to roll would have been rightly massive if the correct response from all the other people involved had not been instantly forthcoming.

I am also aware that (some of) the travelling public at large is more than mildly interested in safety and other related issues, and I for one am interested to hear if a particular aircraft type has a better or worse record than another, in that all other things being equal, if I have a choice of which carrier I am going to use, then reliability will figure in the equation, as my reason for travelling is that I want to be in a certain place at a certain time, and not sitting in a departure lounge or on a coach because the aircraft I was supposed to be travelling on has gone tech. The Dash 8 appears to be getting a bit of a reputation for unreliability, which is a pity, as in other respects, I have no objections to it per se, but if it is unreliable, for whatever reason, I'd rather know, and be in a position to make an informed judgement rather than be kept in the dark and perhaps inconvenienced as a result. In the same vein, while I understand the difficulties involved, if I see something that is abnormal, and then get told that "it's nothing", that too can make me even more uncomfortable. Both have happened to me, in one case on a Dash 8, so yes, I will declare more than a passing interest.

On a related issue, that to me is the danger of a closed user group here on Pprune. There is a real danger that issues that are ( or perhaps should be ) of wider public interest will end up not getting that wider interest because a few people are very sensitive, or insecure, or whatever. Aviation is changing, dramatically, as is the internet, and both have to embrace that change, and learn to live together in as much harmony as possible.

tiggerific_69
16th May 2006, 11:20
well said,it could well have been a serious medical emergency onboard,in which case the aircraft would taxi to stand to be met by paramedics and so as not to cause further disruption to the airfield

hanover
16th May 2006, 11:29
Ive just found out that there was smoke in the flightdeck. And GOLF-INDIA BRAVO, dont be a ****, when you hear the crew call a emergency and ATC ask all other traffic to hold, i think there is a serious problem. Quote "please enter the hold, there is a delay of 20 minutes, we have a sight emergancy with another aircraft"

GOLF-INDIA-BRAVO, i hope that never happens to you.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO
16th May 2006, 21:37
He was heard to say he did not require to stop on either runway or taxiway and was going to stand don`t think fire even followed and it was obvious it was not a medical emergency

Sorry if I upset anybody but it was all over as soon as he was down

G-I-B

tiggerific_69
17th May 2006, 09:38
better to be safe than sorry

AN2 Driver
17th May 2006, 19:30
He was heard to say he did not require to stop on either runway or taxiway and was going to stand don`t think fire even followed and it was obvious it was not a medical emergency
Sorry if I upset anybody but it was all over as soon as he was down
G-I-B

Do you think so? Usually, this kind of incident prompts an AAIB investigation.

Smoke in the Flight Deck is as far as I am concerned one of the most dangerous emergencies one can encounter. Post SR111 and Valuejet, I rekon anyone declaring an emergency and getting his respective aircraft on the ground pronto does just the thing.

I am looking forward to read the AAIB report on this once it appears.

Thanks anyhow for the head up.

Best regards
AN2 Driver.

Essex Girl
17th May 2006, 21:32
Think you will find it was an all day Bacon breakfast that I forgot to remove the cardboard from when I put it in the oven. Silly me, had my mind on other things in the oven. But I don't think the smoke ever got as far as the flight deck. That nice engineer chap who met us even thought the breakfast was still edible :)

luv and kisses

Jane :O

RoyHudd
17th May 2006, 22:11
How long have these Dash 8-300's been flying?

chiglet
17th May 2006, 23:21
O.K.
Smoke in the Cockpit, AKA Flightdeck. I have been on duty when an a/c has had "Smoke in the Cockpit". It resulted in a "MAYDAY" with FDC on masks.
It ain't funny.
ANY indications of fire/smoke will be dealt with as an EMERGENCY, and the a/c will be landed ASAP!
Essex Girl...What can I say? Femail mallard has gone :E
watp,iktch

tallaonehotel
17th May 2006, 23:29
How long have these Dash 8-300's been flying?

All the remaining q300's have been in service since around 97/98.
Why do you ask?

skiddyiom
18th May 2006, 13:40
The oldest Dash dates from Feb '97, the youngest July '98. Not old in aeroplane years. And no more unreliable than any other comparable flying machine.

skiddy

Strepsils
18th May 2006, 13:43
G-I-B - Do you actually fly? Many emergencies are over once we are on the ground because, for example, an engine failing on the ground doesn't really upset the pax and crew as much as an engine failing in the air.

I understand the need to try and stop sensationalism and exaggeration on this site, but succesfully dealing with an in-flight emergency does not make it a "non-event". I really wish people on this site would stop being so flippant when such events occur.:mad:

Just wait until the lights and bells go off when YOU are in control, then come back and tell us how much of a non-event it was.:*

RoyHudd
18th May 2006, 13:47
Just curious about their age, as they seem a bit tatty inside. I use them quite often to get about the UK, and their reliability does not seem great, but that's just my subjective view based on about 160 flights, not statistically significant I know.

Twas fun going into SOU from MAN on a subbed Titan 737-300 (BA Con Dash8 was tech), t'other day. R/W 20 wet, decent x-wind. No float, excellent landing. Just a nervous passenger, that's me!

redflyer
19th May 2006, 17:14
The age of the BA connect dash's isn't really the factor.

It's the number of cycles and turn arounds they have to do which is the cause of the little problems popping up. Upto 10 sectors a day is the norm.

Back to the point. The burnt cardboard container around the breakfast is a fact ,and I believe, having spoken to the persur and the F/O, there was no smoke, just the burning smell.

On speed on profile
19th May 2006, 18:17
Redflyer, It is amazing how uninformed some of the posts on this forum can be! It is funny reading the speculation though.

Dash-7 lover
19th May 2006, 20:04
To all above..... re-read Essex Girls post ......I believe the aircraft was released to service some 30 mins later.

End of!

Re-entry
21st May 2006, 16:25
All declaring 'MAYDAY' does is tell ATC you are a must land aircraft. It gives you priority. It's not the equivalent of a 'movie heart attack' although I'm sure our journalist compatriots wish it were.

Mercenary Pilot
21st May 2006, 18:56
Officially it goes....
MAYDAY = AN AIRCRAFT IN GRAVE AND IMMEDIATE DANGER
PAN PAN = AN AIRCRAFT WITH DIFFICULTY NOT IN IMMEDIATE DANGER

However, I think its generally accepted these days that if theres any doubt then call a MAYDAY as there has been issues/accidents due to crews reluctance to call for a full emergency for what seemed like a fairly easy problem to solve.

Probably wasnt a big deal but well done to the crew for speaking up and not pissing about (besides, its probably in the QRH to call for a MAYDAY for smoke on the flightdeck).:D

wasntme
21st May 2006, 23:09
Mercenary pilot, would you you look in the QRH to see if it was an emergency?

Deal with emergency then look in the QRH. The QRH is used to make sure all necessary memory items have been carried out correctly followed by the necessary actions to follow. :8

Mercenary Pilot
22nd May 2006, 07:06
Errrr No I wouldnt look in the QRH to "see" if it was an emergency...Smoke in the cockpit is a standard emergency drill and practiced often.

followed by the necessary actions to follow

i.e. RADIO......................Transmit a MAYDAY call :hmm: