EK Pay Rise

[jumbo1]

Might as well get a dedicated thread to this thorny issue. What say guys?:eek:
The sandpit is gonna get interesting in the next few months..........


7% mmmmm
Callout fee increased by just over a hundred bucks. Should I think about it? NAh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep discovering...... and recovering............

[BYLAW]

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:
Disgrace
Disdain
Discard

[SecurID]

Total bloody disgrace and after all we have done for you. :D

[puff m'call]

Has the 7% been made public or is that still the latest rumour?

You can only take so much crap from one airline for so long and then you have to act!

My application is in with someone else and if offered the job I'm gone. The sooner the better, three years out here working for these Muppet's is enough, it's by far the most appalling airline I have ever flown for. They take the P1SS.

As pilots we are used and abused and we are are own worst enemy's, why? becauce we give in or say yes. THIS MUST STOP, NO working on days off or doing favours.
Can you just imagine what would happen if we lived in a civilised part of the world and had representation, the B*#TA*DS wouldn't get away with any of it.

20% or 30% wouldn't even do it.

Back to the Penfolds BIN 8. :ugh:

[donpizmeov]

I find it interesting that the government has let rents rise by 15% and they are, but the utilities allowance goes up by 10%. So I guess a few of us are about to get turfed from the EK accommodation come lease renewal time.

Also noted that the productivity and call out pay increase does not happen till 1st July. Cheeky buggas!!!!

Don

[mckaj]

is all this a fact ?????

[Zomp]

compared to the inflation I see it as a 10% paycut

[Warlock2000]

Boys.....

A simple question was asked above:

Is this based on FACT or just a rumour? If it is FACT then where has it been published because besides the cabin crew details I haven't seen any numbers published anywhere?
:confused:

[Schnowzer]

Its a fact! The letter from Adel is in your mailbox. I guess it puts us back to about where we were before they changed around the credit system. Then we lost 15% productivity under the 'cost neutral changes' due to loss of leave, standby and sim credit but now we have got the lost pay back. Shame about the inflation in the intervening period!

I don't believe 7% is going to make us anymore attractive to get more pilots. I guess the work rate is going to stay pretty much the same.:(

[specimus]

Is there any change to the utilities allowance?

[Gillegan]

I don't believe 7% is going to make us anymore attractive to get more pilots. I guess the work rate is going to stay pretty much the same.:(

To the extent that this does or does not attract additional pilots, I don't see the work rate staying the same. As I don't see this really attracting a significant number of pilots and as the aircraft continue to arrive, I expect that as a pilot group we will continue to work harder and harder. It is only the guys who are already maxed out that can expect no change. If you're flying 80 hours a month, expect 90, if you're flying 90, expect 100. (Of course, that clever little propaganda exercise about captains being treated as VP's, well I guess it might work. I guess that since we're VP's, we can expect a multiple of the announced profit share in our May payslip - NOT).

[Schnowzer]

The full deal is as follows:

7% increase to basic scale
3% increment has been awarded (contractural annual increment)
10% on utility allowance
15% increase on productivity payments

Does it cover the cost of inflation?...no.
Is it better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?...yes.
Will it solve our manpower problems?...Doubt it.

I just want to work overtime when I want it, not every month. I am getting more and more tired. We need more peolpe to reduce the work rate and I doubt if this will change the picture.

[disconnected]

We have already lost our "payrise" against dollar devaluation this year and there is a lot more to go.

And UAE inflation is on the rise as reported in Abu Dhabi. Its going to get a lot worse:

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=143535&Sn=BUSI&IssueID=29056

If you havn't already joined EK stay away. If you have - plan your exit strategy now!

[Yossarian]

Obviously this increase is not going to attract pilots in hordes. So EK is still left with a crewing problem. Assuming there is someone with a master plan, what is going to be done to resolve the crew shortage?

Making us fly harder is one option, but most guys I know are not able to do any more than they are already, unless the hour limitations are changed. Could they offer a "B-scale" package to individuals to attract them to the pit; headhunting specific individuals on their own one-off contracts?
What about the home-basing old pearl? Would that induce people to join or convince those lucky enough to get one, to stay?

As it is apparent that they are looking for the most "cost neutral" solution (what a surprise) what other options are available that may solve this dire problem?

All in all, a slap in the face. Not impressed.

[L1011]

What is the world's biggest low cost airline? Answer - Southwest.
Here's what a NYT article says about them: Though Southwest has just about the lowest costs in the industry, it now pays the highest wages to many worker groups, making up the difference with higher productivity and by holding down its costs in a number of ways.
In fact SWA skippers are now the highest paid pilots in the US.:D Much more than United, TCK's favourite example when he wanted to further reduce our package.
Maybe the difference between SWA and EK is better managers? :ugh:
Full aticle can be read here (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/business/15millionaires.html?hp&ex=1147752000&en=49b03d25019ad534&ei=5094&partner=homepage)

[MTOW]

I believe Yossarian might be pretty close to the mark with his last comments. The 'B' Scale option sounds likely... but with a special EK twist, i.e., the 'B' Scalers will be offered MORE than the existing pilot body in an effort to attract people.

Basings for new hires might be the only way they'll get enough new hires. Those already here who want basings will scream, but the powers-that-be are used to that, and know from past experience that most will scream and then cop whatever's dished out and turn up for work, (which is all they want).

I suspect the other option will be one that some allege has happened already, despite absolute denials from above - selected new hire DECs will be employed on a starting salary 'x' grades above a first year captain. (Even if the base pay is that of a first year captain, extra cash or perks will be offered by the back door.)

Potential new starts will hear only what they want to hear. It's always been that way. One, on another thread, ('Is EK the right job for you?'), says he'd prefer to believe the good reports he hears from people he knows rather than take any notice of 100 anonymous posters who are knocking the place.

He might like to take note of one story that in some ways proves his point. Not too many years ago, a number of 777 captains were urged to move to the Bus to help the company out in a manning crisis on the Bus at the time. (Sound familiar?)

They were promised 'first return' to the Boeing when slots became available if they wanted to return. Some now have been denied the move back to the Boeing because they are A340 qualified and they can't be spared.

Meanwhile, DECs who joined the company only two years ago on the A330 who are not A340 qualified are being given the Boeing slots.

It's probably one of these people who's teling his friend in Chicago how incredibly wonderful EK is!!!!

[ruserious]

Well, well, bloody predictable. I could feel smug because I predicted this http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2486551&postcount=7
But as always I feel like I have just been bu**ered

[ernestkgann]

Read this today and thought they were talking about EK......

Nishimatsu, who joined from Tokyo University 34 years ago, believes the safety failures are symptomatic of an underlying malaise: a sclerotic, inward-looking management culture that fails to engage with or even properly hear frontline staff in the air, the workshops and terminals.

....but no it was JAL.

Here's a link to the article,

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19135142-643,00.html

[Warlock2000]

Thanks for the info/update guys.

The 7% (+3%) certainly could have been better and the 10% on housing (although only applicable to those living out) is 5% shy of the government approved 15% rent hike per annum. And rents WILL go up by the alloted 15% a year..!

In summary, we make them millions and they;
don't have the decency (think that's the right word) to match the government rent increase minima,:eek:

show us the finger by giving a pay increase LESS than the previous one when in the last year work levels and inflation have shot through the roof .:D


eklawyer: I'm with you on your post! :ok: You want loyalty, EMPLOY A F@CKING DOG!

[Icare66]

B scale is not an option anymore, it's a fact!!! A guy recently resigned when he saw it!

[Yossarian]

Have heard of this third and fourth hand. Would love something more concrete. :mad:

[new tomcat]

As I said before many of us were offered a contract that pays 38,000 dhs plus housing, plus education allowance for highly qualifed DECs. I postponed my decison on the issue but many others have not. If my company keeps going south I might have to take Emirates up on the offer. $1.6 Billion alone in the month of March. I sincerely apologize for that guys but I will keep you posted on the matter.
One thing I will say for sure is that I will not do what that US Air captain has done if indeed I do come. I know my place and the heartache my decison will cause many qualifed Emirates FOs. Keep the Faith!

[davidletterman]

So, New Tomcat,

You are saying you will come as an F/O to EK, or you are saying you will come as a DEC and feel our pain as you delay more upgrades?

:rolleyes:

[Payscale]

Hi Tomcat....

Thanks for the info. Im not surprised that the are offering 36000 AED plus.

Can you scan a copy of the offer in on this page? deleting you name and all that. You will be a hero amongst the boys. Thanks:D

[Icare66]

This is probably why they want us to lock our mailboxes...just in case a playslip disapears

[allaru]

Firstly may I say that the recent pay offering is appreciated by most of the pilots, since if nothing else it is a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, in relation to Emirates existing, and forthcoming critical shortage of quality pilots the pay rise is going to do little to get them out of the mess that they have created.

Management, many of whom have little or no credible background prior to Emirates, have had it their own way for two long, and the evolution of Emirates has coincided with what has been the worst period in aviation history, in terms airline economics, and thus pilots pay and conditions. It is in this background that they had been able to recruit the large numbers of quality pilots that they have.

It is with this same background that has led them to a false belief that pilots are a commodity that can be treated like children, and pushed around by every 'service' department within the company. The cost neutral overtime schemes, fiddling with block times, dishonest interpretations of flight and duty time limitations, flight time factoring scams, sub standard hotels, reduction in downroute allowances, decline in housing standards, ridiculous bidding limitations, increased flying hours, decreased days off at home, lack of augmented crew, lack of flight ops man management support and concern, and the atrocious disregard for our professional status have not gone unnoticed.

Not to mention other niceties like loosing your job, and being deported for giving the finger to a policeman (yes that was an Emirates pilot). Being called into the office for not signing a voyage report. Being called back to the aircraft for not completing a secure/leaving aircraft checklist. Being told by the Indian security guard that you are not allowed to have guests back to your apartment after 10pm (yes you will be treated like a 20 year old flight attendant), the heat (49 degrees for six months of the year with 90% humidity), the dangerous roads (amongst the most dangerous in the world), the lack of lifestyle issues, ext ext.

Despite this we have continued to deliver quality, professional service, 24/7.

The aviation industry has always cycled, and it was inevitable that the wheel would once again turn in the pilots favour. Rather than planning for this contingency Emirates managers have chosen to take advantage of the past situation to promote their own personal interests above the long term interests of the company. This has been exacerbated by management schemes which give financial incentives to encourage middle to upper managers to implement cost saving measures with little or no regard, or accountability for the long term outcomes.

Our own VP pay and conditions, in an article published in an Arabian business magazine rated the worth of a secretary in Dubai to be equivalent to that of an FO, and a shop manager to that of a Captain. Perhaps the same managers with their depth of human resource skills, might want to sit back and consider whether or not they would have been successful having competed against thousands of applicants to gain entry into their respective military academies, or airline cadet flying training schemes. Not to mention the years of struggle that followed to qualify, and gain the required skills, and experience to qualify for a major carrier. Please don't treat us like fools, we are intelligent, and highly capable individuals.

As one FO for a low cost carrier, down under, put it to me recently, “I went to the road show, but frankly their not paying enough”. Pretty bad when your not even paying enough to attract 737 FOs from low cost carriers.

I guess well have to get use to more colleagues who put a salad and muffin on their plate for breakfast, and have a polka for a ring tone on their mobile.

[Alphaprot]

Only bit I would disagree with is your first sentance, apart from that you are 100% spot on, It is with this same background that has led them to a false belief that pilots are a commodity that can be treated like children, and pushed around by every 'service' department within the company. The cost neutral overtime schemes, fiddling with block times, dishonest interpretations of flight and duty time limitations, flight time factoring scams, sub standard hotels, reduction in downroute allowances, decline in housing standards, ridiculous bidding limitations, increased flying hours, decreased days off at home, lack of augmented crew, lack of flight ops man management support and concern, and the atrocious disregard for our professional status have not gone unnoticed.
that is exactly the problem

[Saltaire]

Totally agree 100%, well said Allura

[uplock]

Allaru Firstly may I say that the recent pay offering is appreciated by most of the pilots, since if nothing else it is a step in the right direction.


Don't agree with your first comment....bollucks.. it was a pay cut not a pay rise however the rest of your post is very good .

I was hoping for something to reflect the real cost of living and acknowledgement for spending nearly the last 7 years with EK. Instead we get the usuall smoke and mirrors letter from H.Q.
Dissapointing, however it is clear that the long held to hope for a substantial pay rise to match the fall in the US $ and increasing cost of living in Dubai will never happen

Some how I do not think Mr ED will be in undated with Crew to operate those flights in open time this weekend.

Really dissapointed, but not surprised. What gets me though is the humongus Profits that are made each year by EK, the increase in Productivity from the Pilot group, in many cases including myself maxed out on hours for the year yet my Take home salary when converted from AED or US $ to another currency keeps decreasing.

I am not interested in working on my day off Mr ED