Is Ek the right job for you?

[fatigueflyer]

With all the thousands of posts (both negative & positive ones) can anyone actually let us know if they accepted or turned down a job at EK due to what people posted put on pprune? I understand that we have to make our own minds up when it comes to a new job but from what is written here, I can only assume that there are both unfortunate situations and also lucky breaks for some.

[fractional]

fatigueflyer,
If you are jobless, or if they are offering you a larger acft than what you fly now, or if the pocket money (without housing/education) is at least 33,33% better than yours, or if you are single, or if ...(whatever) YES! I hope one of these is better than what you have.
Once in, adjust and "keep discovering until you find better".
There is nothing perfect worldwide, but you've got to start somewhere. :ok: Good luck!

[fatigueflyer]

fractional,
Thanks for the info.

[Kpt40]

I am probably going to ge slammed for this- but..(and I admit I still have rose colored Serengetis)

Any expat job will have its bad side. If you come here without realizing that you will set yourself up for alot of disappointment.

I think the career path is not what it used to be either at Ek or anywhere else- but its better here than where I was at before. And in my humble opinion, its better here than almost any other job in my home country-USA.
In the end try and get your own list of why here is better than there and vice versa. Whats important to you (pay-a/c type, type of flying, lifestyle)
and what you can adapt too(heat, traffic, log haul flying, very multicultural
enviroment, the shredding of the dollar causeing prices to increase etc)
For alot of ppl, this job is a stepping stone, but- and this is what they forget.. the place you go to may not be as good as here, even if it pays better.
Its a huge decision to make uprooting yourself and family to start anew in a different land. You will need a good partner, the willingness to adapt and a long term goal- retire here, go elsewhere later when you get the heavy pic time-so you can then turn around and piss off another companies F/O's as a DEC. For me, this feels like my final stop. But time is the final judge.
Good luck .

[pintofstella]

You are clearly new in EK and must be a mate of brian's.Not much more needs to be said. Good luck to you!!

[Icare66]

If you want to enter what we call a real airline, this is probably not the right choice, once again, these guys throw a bit of sand in your eyes and we all fall into the pit! Stella is right, time will definitely change cpt40's mind.

Cheers

[GoForIt]

With all the thousands of posts (both negative & positive ones) can anyone actually let us know if they accepted or turned down a job at EK due to what people posted put on pprune? I understand that we have to make our own minds up when it comes to a new job but from what is written here, I can only assume that there are both unfortunate situations and also lucky breaks for some.
The discussion on this forum regarding EK has always seemed unbalanced in the extreme, and I've always suspected that there are a few people here with an agenda of turning as many applicants away from EK as they can. The reason would presumably be to force EK to improve the package, since collective bargaining is not an option. Other posts by select members of this group have indicated such, and this one does the same.

For some of us on the outside, this forum tells us little about what EK is really like. We hear one story from anonymous posters on this forum. We hear another story from friends we've flown with at other airlines and are now happily employed by EK. They have faces and voices. They are real people.

In an anonymous forum such as this, one guy with an agenda can have 5 or 10 different user names, and can make it look like there is this big group of guys who hate life at EK. The Tartan Guy/ BM controversey on the other thread just proves how vulnerable an anonymous internet forum is to abuse. I'm not making any accusations, but given the different picture I get from people I know who actually work there and users on this forum, I have a suspicion that there may be some abuse. I will take the version from people I know over 100 anonymous internet "personalities".

I'm going to the interview.

Goforit

[6000PIC]

...and if it doesn`t work out you can always change your handle to " WishIdidn`tGoForIt " , good luck anyway .

[145qrh]

At last another american who knows it all...........they will help save us all.

Just ask Brian, he always tells the truth,honest.

[Andu]

GoForIt, (or should that be 'Brian?), there is an acronym that is widely used among the new Flight Attendants here - 'M.M.I.D.'. I'll leave it unexplained, but ask your buddies already here who love the place so much and I'm sure they'll tell you what it means.

If you really are in Chicago, and you do the interview and like what you see and are told enough to take up the EK offer, I, (and I suspect many others, not just 'the few malcontent posters with multiple identities' you suspect of hidden agendas), will be very interested to see a post on this subject from you in 12 months time. (Hmmm, 'posters with multiple identities and hidden agendas'... does that ring any bells to anyone here?)

I suspect that after 12 months here in the Sandpit, you'll have learnt what M.M.I.D. stands for yourself, and by then agree that at the EK interview, you fell for a very similar line to the one so many of the Flight Attendants do.

And like so many of the Flight Attendants, 12 months down the track, you'll come to the rather bitter conclusion that Y.M.Wasn't.D.

In closing, the salary figures they will quote to you are in Dirhams, not Greenbacks, so divide the stars (and stripes?) in your eyes by 3.68.

[whossorrynow]

goforit

For a small group the US contigent at Emirates have a very loud voice. Most of them have been here less than three years and most have come from your decimated industry. Another poster on another thread mentioned 'Stockholm Syndrome'. You will know what this means.

There is another regular poster from the same geographical area and the same previous employer who has been in Emirates rather longer.

In the main his comments on this forum are at odds with those of his colleagues.

Perhaps he would take the opportunity to comment.

[Gillegan]

goforit
For a small group the US contigent at Emirates have a very loud voice. Most of them have been here less than three years and most have come from your decimated industry. Another poster on another thread mentioned 'Stockholm Syndrome'. You will know what this means.
There is another regular poster from the same geographical area and the same previous employer who has been in Emirates rather longer.
In the main his comments on this forum are at odds with those of his colleagues.
Perhaps he would take the opportunity to comment.
I assume that you are referring to me. Since I have been here 10 years, I am probably not qualified to comment too much on how bad things have gotten back home. What I am qualified to comment on is why guys who have been here a while are so angry. In the time that I have been here, I have continuously had my terms and conditions changed - almost always for the worse. To be fair, they are usually not contractual items because the contract is conspicuous for what it doesn't contain. It's gotten so that whenever I get a communication from the company, my first thought is, "what have they done now?". I think that this has a cumulative effect and many of the new guys haven't quite reached their threshold of indignation. I think that it has gotten so bad in the states that for a lot of pilots, they are relieved to land on their feet.

I ran into a United B777 crew in SIN recently and had a few beers with them. The captain had been entertaining applying here. After comparing rosters and paychecks (after an approximately 45% paycut) he was still better off than me. I was flying 30% more block hours for less pay. I could go on and on but we've all heard it before, ad nauseam. Hey, if a guys happy here, neither I nor anyone else has any right to tell him otherwise. What annoys me is that some of the cheerleaders fail to take into account the accumulated experiences of many long serving and hard working pilots and instead rely ONLY on their limited (and in some cases unusually fortunate) situations when recounting their experience. For some guys, when you look at their situations, what's not to like? Unfortunately, not all of us have other sources of income, a generous nest egg or a safety net in something to return to. If I had a few years at $20,000 a month, maybe I would have saved enough so that I wouldn't be so worried about my retirement.

When I was deciding whether to come here, I made a spreadsheet based on starting pay, the 4% annual increment that we received, an upgrade in 5 years and an annual rate of return on the provident fund of 7 1/2%. Well, my experience has fallen well short of my projections - and not because the company has experienced any unprofitable years or untold difficulty.

[whossorrynow]

Very succinctly put.

Thank you.

[Kpt40]

Gillegan,
Thank you for the post.
As you said the US scene is different. We all had expectations that never materialized. You pointed out in a previous post, the option of leaveing Ek and going to the states is a slim proposition since you would start at the bottom of someones list. You fail to notice that for some its that they have been on the bottom for years, wondering if in the next week they will have to update that resume for Starbucks.
I will not get into a -how much the job sucks in the states- conversation.Some are golden and will never feel pain, some will get a brick to the head at indoc. Suffice it to say that almost all of us have been impacted to some degree.
To think the majority of new joiners and perspective new joiners leave our homes, friends, famililies and the comfort of own culture because we like the weather in Dubai, or Taipei, or Goa, is a tad naive.We left because the options left for us in the States are rather limited. Very few United 777 Captains will leave UAL for Dubai. Even fewer FedEx Captains..... But the rest of us,who will end our careers in a 170/190, or 737, or a 320...for them its a completely different ball game. Same for the guys who used to be 73 captains but have been knocked back to f/o at age 50 with not enough years left to get the left hand seat back.
I too did the cost/benefit study on Ek vs my other options. As have a few other new joiners. But my career expectations are not based on flying a heavy in the states. I would end my career as a 73 captain-thats just age and corporate dynamics.The financial benefits of that are more limiting than comparing my pay to a 777 UAL captain-even after the pay cuts.
I believe the other American you are talking about is Typhoon. In all my conversations with him- either on line or in person, he has been very forthright and honest. What many people here fail to grasp is that one persons negative is not as important to someone else. We all make our own choices and live with that decision. Typhoon understands that and never sugar coated anything in our conversations.
On my first post I used it as a disclaimer- and two very quickly pointed out that they can read yet not understand-I am still new here, and I may be wearing rose colored Serengetis, but EK is a better option for me and my family than my options in the States . If that offends some of the habitual posters then so be it.
I concede that you and other senior posters are more knowledgeable about Dubai and Ek. Please accept that I have not been in your shoes....Nor you in mine.

[Icare66]

Kpt40, it seems like your expectations are far away from reality, but we definitely need guys like you, just wonder why so many people are leaving this place?
I really wish I knew this before I joined, grass is always greener.....

Keep recoverring :ugh:

[Kpt40]

Icare,
These are in order...
What expectations are those?
Glad you think so, so did recruitment
When are you quitting? And please tell us to whom you will be flying so we may apply also.
Have a nice day.

[145qrh]

Looks like another Brian in the making......

What is happening in recruitment, how are these people getting thro'....wait...... I think we know the answer to that one....

[ruserious]

145qrh, I think you are being a leetle harsh, as Kpt40 admits he is new here and may have rose tinted glasses.
I really enjoyed this place for the first 5 or 6 years, until TCK et al arrived. Give Kpt40 time a few bu**erings with sand thrown in the lube, will scrape away any rose tinted surface he may have....

[145qrh]

I agree . a litle harsh, but fair....

It's just I am am getting a bit fed up of the Yanks telling us why we should be so happy...

They whine about about the US aviation industry,how poorly paid they are ,demotions etc, but, who got them into that mess....High salaries, restricted scheduling agreements, scope clauses..

US airlines carry more passengers than at any time in history, and yet they still lose money,,,who is to blame, and please don't say the management, as we have just had someone parachuted in to head up ours..

So please give it a little time so you can see what we are talking about..As rus said wait for the inevitable shafting...and then see how much you like it....

[Kpt40]

Hey 145, I never said you should be happy- thats what you read into it.
Big pay dollars made US airlines go tits up? hmmm. Well, thats what you want too isn't it? Large pay? So you want the same things we had with the same result.
I wanted to say something like - maybe I will learn to enjoy the shafting as much as you guys do, and stay as long as you have. "Thank you Sir , May I have another" But that would be disrespectful and childish.
What I will say is that, for me and mine, its a better opportunity than was available in the states. When you came here it was probably a better deal then for you as well- hence your choice to come here. How is that any different than me doing the same.

[millerscourt]

It is somewhat ironic that the problems in the US Airline industry are mainly as a result of 9/11 caused by the Taliban giving sanctuary to Bin Laden. And who were the main financial backers of the Taliban? Why the UAE!!:{

[White Knight]

MC - do you mean why the UAE? or why, the UAE!

[millerscourt]

WK indeed why,the UAE. Don't think it should have a question mark at the end as it is a statement. What do you think? As you are barely out of school you should know!

Save me from smart a**e F/O's of 3 years and four months standing! If you are not careful I will apply for that Chief Pilot job on the 330/340!!:{

[White Knight]

Good point about the question mark - I'll edit it grandad:}

If you want to apply for CP 330/340 feel free, maybe you could get together with Brian and job share - cr@p job after all, for management wannabes:{

[Gillegan]

Gillegan,
Thank you for the post.
As you said the US scene is different. We all had expectations that never materialized. You pointed out in a previous post, the option of leaveing Ek and going to the states is a slim proposition since you would start at the bottom of someones list. You fail to notice that for some its that they have been on the bottom for years, wondering if in the next week they will have to update that resume for Starbucks.
I will not get into a -how much the job sucks in the states- conversation.Some are golden and will never feel pain, some will get a brick to the head at indoc. Suffice it to say that almost all of us have been impacted to some degree.
To think the majority of new joiners and perspective new joiners leave our homes, friends, famililies and the comfort of own culture because we like the weather in Dubai, or Taipei, or Goa, is a tad naive.We left because the options left for us in the States are rather limited. Very few United 777 Captains will leave UAL for Dubai. Even fewer FedEx Captains..... But the rest of us,who will end our careers in a 170/190, or 737, or a 320...for them its a completely different ball game. Same for the guys who used to be 73 captains but have been knocked back to f/o at age 50 with not enough years left to get the left hand seat back.
I too did the cost/benefit study on Ek vs my other options. As have a few other new joiners. But my career expectations are not based on flying a heavy in the states. I would end my career as a 73 captain-thats just age and corporate dynamics.The financial benefits of that are more limiting than comparing my pay to a 777 UAL captain-even after the pay cuts.
I believe the other American you are talking about is Typhoon. In all my conversations with him- either on line or in person, he has been very forthright and honest. What many people here fail to grasp is that one persons negative is not as important to someone else. We all make our own choices and live with that decision. Typhoon understands that and never sugar coated anything in our conversations.
On my first post I used it as a disclaimer- and two very quickly pointed out that they can read yet not understand-I am still new here, and I may be wearing rose colored Serengetis, but EK is a better option for me and my family than my options in the States . If that offends some of the habitual posters then so be it.
I concede that you and other senior posters are more knowledgeable about Dubai and Ek. Please accept that I have not been in your shoes....Nor you in mine.
Kpt,
I don't think that you need to apologize about coming here and I do understand the comparisons that you mentioned. I think that you understand where some of us are coming from and at least a few of us understand where you're coming from. As you said, some are golden and lead a charmed life and others don't. What I am angry about is that the pay and conditions at one of the most profitable airlines in the world are determined by the least common denominator of failed airlines in bankruptcy that are losing millions a day. I understand that Emirates has to control their costs but after arbitrarily reducing our pay a year and a half ago (and make no bones about it, that is what they did), our increases have been a fraction of the increases in the cost of living here. If you read the annual report and if you have been here a few years, the company's overall focus has been cut costs, cut costs, cut costs for a long time now. Should they be continuously looking for new and untapped efficiencies in the way we do business? Absolutely. Should they be looking for more sources of revenue? Yes, and they are. Should they also be looking for ways to improve the operation and how we do business. Yes. Unfortunately I don't feel that has been a particular area of concern. I can't remember the last change in procedures or processes that wasn't done to just cut costs. What has also happened is that a lot of their cost cutting initiatives have been borne by the employees themselves. This at a time when the cost of living in Dubai is increasing precipitously. Just look at these bizarre and ever changing policies on promotion and transfer. They are not efficient. The easy route (and it's easier here than in most places) is to simply take it out on the employees and in many cases, that's what they have done. The longer you have been here, the more you have been affected by this. It's only natural that people get fed up.

As far as which cheerleaders I was referring to, while I think that Typhoon could be a little more transparent regarding how things have worked out for him (and he and I have discussed this many times over beers - I consider him a good friend) he does make an effort to present the other side. I was actually referring to others whose wardrobe is of the plaid variety. Right now, if others are to be believed, we stand to take in a number of retired captains from DAL who have other sources of income (retirement) and in many cases a lower cost base (read grown children). Their availability and willingness to come here is skewing the market and depressing my wages. Do I expect the company to not take advantage of it? No but I don't have to be happy about it either.

Regarding whether it is a valid comparison to compare my conditions with a UAL B777 captain - I would say absolutely, to the extent that the market for pilots is the same - and since Emirates is now trolling around in the states for DEC's, I maintain that it is. What would be the straw that breaks my camels back is if the company again goes down that route where they offer incoming DEC's more than captains that already work here. That is tacit acknowledgement that they are not paying market wages. You look at it differently and I guess that is the market talking but the company should also take care of its people and I just don't feel that I have been a valued employee by this company the last few years.

[Alphaprot]

maybe I will learn to enjoy the shafting as much as you guys do, and stay as long as you have. "Thank you Sir :O :O
Yep that just about sums up the 'Keep Discovering experience'
Your mission should you choose to accept it, never go into denial that you are being shafted and more importantly try not to enjoy it :eek:

[Spad]

What I will say is that, for me and mine, its (sic) a better opportunity than was available in the states.Too many of the posts from the US on this and other similar threads remind me of a conversation I had with a couple of ex-Brannif captains who accepted another ‘bill of goods’ when they (and many of their countrymen) took DEC jobs in Australia in 1989 in the middle of a protracted and very bitter industrial dispute.

Even when the real situation was pointed out to them in not to be misunderstood terms, all they could say was “I just want to work.” So did the people they were replacing.

I know the situation in Dubai isn’t the same as Australia in 1989, but what is common is the incredible arrogance of American pilots who think that THEIR problems should take precedence over all others’.

Many who take up the EK offer will find that the vast majority of their new colleagues share the sentiments of the poster who said earlier in this threadIt's just I am getting a bit fed up of the Yanks telling us why we should be so happy...

They whine about the US aviation industry, how poorly paid they are ,demotions etc