Non pilots in QF making policy

[funbags]

Don't you just love it when the clerks in the flight ops office start dictating policy to tech crew (probably happens with the cabin crew as well).
Like the letter on the flt ops website today from the clerk who looks after the 747 fleets - detailing illumination of seat belt signs - when and when not too. I haven't seen it but a friend just read it to me over the phone. Unbelievable. I'm not even on the fleet (although we have a clerk in the same position), but it would have more credibility coming from the fleet manager himself or a pilot delegate, who actually does fly aeroplanes. I believe from the same colleague there was a similar one a few weeks ago about setting the park brake and pushback etc. Any queries should be directed back to the clerk. What would he/she know about operating on an aircraft. Whats next - discussing M.E.L's with a non pilot.
Where's the credibility ???? :hmm:

[*Lancer*]

Why does she have to be a pilot to be credible? Half the technical staff are non-pilots, and their credibility has never been in question (probably because they know a lot more about the systems than the pilots do anyway).

I discuss MELs all the time with non-pilots... they're called engineers! :}

[funbags]

Touche Lancer,

Quite right re engineers and tech/performance people, but they don't generally tell you how to operate/manage the aircraft in flight.

My point was these other people with little if any aviation background and certainly not as flight crew (tech or cabin), want to dictate policy. My case in point is that most people on the 767 won't ring the clerk to discuss operational stuff (as QF wants, as it frees up the fleet manager) - they just bypass him and ring the fleet manager direct.

All cost saving I guess. Much cheaper to have a clerk run the fleet. Very soon there won't be pilot fleet managers, just clerks and lawyers, who will be able to make policy and advise you !!!!

[B A Lert]

How and the hell does Funbags know the qualifications of the person he describes as a 'clerk'? For all he knows, this bloke could have a Masters in Aero Eng and so better is qualified to discuss technical issues than most pilots. It could be that 'the clerk' is just the messenger for the Fleet Manager who can't quite be bothered to finish off and sign the paperwork etc.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating...is the information published by "the clerk" technically sound? Maybe you Funbags aren't in a position to answer this! :*

[funbags]

B A L,

I am only writing what people are saying and I happen to agree - alot of line pilots won't ring these people up to discuss line issues, due lack of credibility and knowledge. If they are there to finish the fleet managers paperwork that's great, but they usually sign their letters off with " if you have any queries/questions don't hesitate to call or email me".

I do happen to know what their backgrounds are, hence the credibility post. They are nice people I believe, but I'll probably only use them if I need a new I.D or my uniform changed !

I do believe that the cabin crew are stacked with them - telling them how to run a cabin and service with no experience as cabin crew themselves !

Thanks for the reply though.
Ava good weekend !!

[Veruka Salt]

B A Lert . . .

I think what Funbags is alluding to is that an office clerk is writing memos to Techcrew admonishing them for not turning on the seat belt sign. I'm pretty certain that she is not an experienced Boeing/Airbus Pilot. :hmm:

More importantly though she does have a great set of . . . er Funbags! :D

[Jimothy]

In this instance it may be worth actually reading for yourself the full memo and the reason for it. You may then be in a better position to pass judgment. In fact, if you still don't like it how about you raise it through your fleet manager rather than bleeting about it on Pprune. Or maybe you could volunteer to do the "Clerks" job instead of going flying!

[B A Lert]

B A Lert . . .
:More importantly though she does have a great set of . . . er Funbags! :D


Great .

[Elroy Jettson]

Just read it. Common sense content. Do you just have a problem with the author? It seems perfectly reasonable to me. What sort of "tool" refuses to put the belt sign on when requested? Geez we fly with some tossers! Out of Japan too! A few nights in the clink if someone injured, might sort them out. :rolleyes:

[funbags]

Yeah read it Elroy and still stand by what I said - better coming from the fleet manager, then you wouldn't have all the people on Qrewroom complaining as we speak.

I am not pointing fingers at the actual individuals, just the principle.

[DirectAnywhere]

Might be time to remove foot from mouth Funbags. The Fleet Manager is on leave.

It's come from his office through his appointed representative - not from his representative. The difference is subtle but important wouldn't you say?

[Bazzamundi]

No problem with the author, it all seems common sense sort of stuff. Amazing there are some morons who are the cause of stuff like this having to be written.

[funbags]

Direct,
No foot in my mouth - was he on leave a month ago as well when she wrote the last one on ACARS and park brakes etc , asking if all replys go to him or her. Small point but just as important.
Can't wait for the next one-will have to keep an eye on the website as we don't receive the Jumbo ones in our mail slots. It may even be written by the fleet manager ! :ugh:


P.S Point is they are cutting the fleet managers back(from 5 to 3 at this stage) to save a quid. Where will it end. Bean counters in their seats. Can't wait.

[Elroy Jettson]

all the people on Qrewroom complaining as we speak.

Thought I had put my size 9 in my mouth yet again... So I checked Qrewroom. "All the people" on Qrewroom when you posted this totalled 3 complaints! Just a couple shy of 2400.

Take the weekend off, and go and get some fun back in your bags! :ok:

[Tankengine]

The non Pilot manager of 737 and now 767 admin is probably the most effective manager in the whole company!:)
No funbags though!:{

[Veruka Salt]

Hey Tankengine,

Word is that "Moneypenny" has the inside running for Chris' job. :}

[TIMMEEEE]

Wouldnt any policy changes have to cross both the desk of the Deputy Chief Pilot as well as the Manager of Flight ops??

Word is in the medical field (I know different but many similarities) the good old medical administrator in hospitals (non medical people) are looking to be replaced with those with medical knowledge.

Murderous oversights such as those as Dr Jayant Patel (Dr Death as the media has named him) would have been avoided if a panel of strict medical professionals performed the hiring duties.

In this case it was strictly an administrator.

Not knocking the abilities of non-pilot personnel in this case but I wonder how long it will be before the wheel turns yet again!

[lowerlobe]

Funbags

The posts in Qrew room regarding the seat belt issue are not only about the source of the directive but that some tech crew are a bit peeved that they are being directed by cabin crew to take some sort of action and that they are losing control .

The person involved has listed a few examples of tech crew deciding that they know more than cabin crew the conditions throughout the aircraft cabin. This person is not telling you how to fly the aircraft merely that you should appreciate that cabin crew may be aware of information that you are not.

The pilot in command is exactly that and no one involving cabin crew is disputing that authority and responsibility however if you are in the pointy section of the aircraft you may not be aware of the situation in “E” zone or any other zone either.

Therefore it may be prudent to turn the seat belt sign on if the cabin crew request it in the interest of safety regardless of any ego problems that some including MS may have. His post shows a complete lack of understanding that is the basis of most tech/cabin crew problems and is the foundation that CRM training is trying to eradicate.

This is not taking away any authority from tech crew not is it intended to.

[Capt Fathom]

I wouldn't take it too seriously Lowerlobe .. I think more than a few posters may be 'stirring the pot'....not a new concept on bulletin boards! :=

[Lord Snot]

Good point Funbags. Too many blunts in pseudo-sharp roles...

Maybe this blunt has had the directive handed to her to type out. Shouldn't it instead be signed on behalf of, Capt. Ima Wankker-Ratman, Chief Tosspot and OIC Skygodliness???

Keep the clerks and other blunts in the Pubs room doing amendments and don't let them start issuing directives, notices, etc.

Next thing some blunt will be calling you in for a little chat about how much fuel you've been carrying or how many flouncing mincers you've been smacking around in some pub on a layover.

[lowerlobe]

A quote from Qrewroom from a QF tech crew

“Maybe the cabin crew could fill out a form detailing the conditions they determined warranted the seat belt sign being switched on and underneath their signature at the bottom they could list their qualifications and licenses which allowed them to come to that decision.”

When you are either floating around the cabin or stuck to the ceiling you really don’t need any qualifications, a license or epaulets to understand the potential danger.

It is only a small percentage of techies that have a problem with accepting advice but I doubt that any amount of crm training or discussion will change that .:ugh:

[Capt Fathom]

Reading all this, the sooner they put the 'fasten seat belt' switch in the cabin the better! And the radar as well.:E
Here's a new smilie I can try....:ugh: Ahh..that's better!

[019360]

What on earth is wrong with a simple request from the cabin to put the seatbelt sign on. Even back years ago on the F27 I learned (remember standing sideways at the old chemical toilet in some "light" turbulence) that the ride at the back of the machine is often worse than up the front. On something very long like a 777-300 or 340-600 the cabin crew down the back may be feeling bumps you can't feel in the cockpit. Its not like they're telling you to turn it OFF when you want it ON.....you're a CREW, act like a team and forget the precious ego.

[king oath]

Having read the FSO for a laugh I can see how the crew are getting stroppy. The author , needs a lesson on how to express herself. That aggression thing doesn't work with Aussies.
She needs to learn to be less pushy and put her point of view in a more mature manner. The point she makes needs consideration, but in a reasonable context.
Meanwhile I just do what I always do when I read crap. Ignore it, use common sense and keep doing what I've always done. No need to get in a lather.