MANCHESTER - 2

[PPRuNe Pop]

Who will be first...............

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Anybody know if easyJet plan to fly into MAN?
ib...

What a starter for 10!!!!!!!!!!:}

[spharrison]

easyjet noway may be flybe and one or two ryanair off peak ?

[Evileyes]

PLEASE let’s not start this thread with "Attention Deficit Quoting", hereafter known as ADQ. We all know what the poster immediately before you said. There is no need to waste PPRuNe bandwidth by saying it again as a quote.

If the post you are replying to is a few posts back fair enough, just don't quote the whole thing please. Replying to the username is normally just as effective.

Cheers

[chiglet]

Can we also have the "I am flying to xxx, what a/c will it be????? Rapidly shoved to the 'Spotty Balcony' pleeease"
watp,iktch

[Hawk]

chiglet...as a rule thats exactly what happens. However, we dont always get to them straight away. Occasionally a few are borderline spottish and may be of interest to aviation professionals, as a rule those posts will stay.

[MAN777]

Doh ! when I saw "Manchester 2" I thought we were in line for a new airport !.

[cessna l plate]

..... Like a sensible post maybe?

So to get the ball rolling, I have heard a faint rumour that AA are looking to increase to 4 flights a day ex MAN. Anyone care to add the details?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I take it you mean 4 destinations

G-I-B

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Apparently DFW is back on the list of possibilities, reflected in the fact they are recruiting part time ground staff.

[FlyZB]

When you look at the destinations that EZY serve from the UK regions (LPL, NCL, EMA, BRS), they are mainly destinations that are already well served from MAN. It is only at the London Airports that they offer more variety in their routes. There's nothing to indicate what destinations they would offer should they ever take the step of operating out of MAN but when there was a rumour going around that they had applied for slots back in 2004, the destinations that they were considering serving from MAN sounded all too familar. AGP, ALC, FAO, BFS... These are all routes that are served in abundance already and we don't need any more of these. The presence of LS, WW and ZB is enough to provide a competitive, low fare service to most of the destinations that EZY serve from LPL and if they were just to replicate these routes out of MAN then the airport isn't really gaining anything from this in my opinion. MAN needs someone like FR to come in and have a go at operating services to new destinations that currently aren't served from MAN. They've gone a good job of giving less popular destinations a go at LPL and I doubt EZY would do this as effectively. But what are the chances of Ryanair making Manchester a hub? Very slim me thinks!

[jongeman]

FlyZB - the first sensible and intelligent post so far......

What most of the rest are about, I haven't got a clue.

I think MAN's reached its peak as a major international airport. The management are deluded by constantly talking about becoming a major intercontinental airport, and 'hoping' to attract services to the Far East, China, Australasia, West Coast USA and even South America....!

They still think that they can attract profitable services to South America FFS!!!! They must be mad.

[MAN777]

Sorry for having a sense of humour !

MAN or EGGC, has not reached its peak as an international airport, there are still major gaps in its portfolio, notably China, Japan, South Africa, India and direct west coast USA. I think I would agree re the comment about south America being a non starter, other than charters to the Brazil coastal resorts.

[AUTOGLIDE]

Exactly MAN777, but TBH I don't see how any reasonable longhaul growth will occur whilst BA are using the LHR/LGW flights as longhaul feeders.

[Railgun]

AUTOGLIDE

The yields from regional airports are not enough to justify many airlines starting and running profitable longhaul routes from Manchester IMHO.

If you take BA's LHR op's a lot of pax come from all over the world to connect with the longhaul flights. Manchester does not have the feeder network for any airline to sustain a operation like this. Not as many pax as people think come from the London area to fly on BA flights. Infact i would hazzard a guess if LHR was in Manchester most pax would not notice a difference!

[Momentary Lapse]

MAN is having a tough time, bless it.

They tried dropping prices last year but still the pax didn't come. Pax figures are down on last year for the first time in living memory. Rumour has it that prices are still not low enough for FR, and that EZY couldn't get the right slots to make their schedule work.

BA never could attract enough pax to sit in the front of their planes out of MAN, so the yield will always be too low. BA's other costs are allegedly still too high, and they are gradually withering away in T3, which is now handling other non-One World airlines e.g. WW and soon BD.

Far East and other LH carriers won't fly to MAN because their pax want to fly to London, not a regional airport.

MAN has great people but as an airport it's too complicated landside and too tortuous and congested inside the terminals, not to mention the congestion and poor state of repair of the airside area.

Compared to other up-and-coming airports like LPL and EMA, MAN can't compete for ease of use, simplicity etc., which is what passengers want. They don't want to walk past more and more silly shops, then walk miles to a gate past broken travelators, then be bussed for another 15 mins to an aircraft parked another mile away in Altrincham.

Still, they could always read Plane Talk on the way, and marvel at the senior management's latest medals and fat-cat pay rises.

[Mr A Tis]

Momentary Lapse.

I'm afraid you are slightly off on yr comments re BA never filling the front.
In the days when the BAR B737s had a C cabin, they were frequently full to Amsterdam, Frankfurt & Rome.
The E145s have seen all that wither away.
However, you will see AFR & DLH frequently overbooked in C class on their multiple daily rotations out of MAN.
Usually the DLH Frankfurt flights have more people sat in C class than the entire BACON 145.
However, I agree with the rest. Shoddy terminal (T1) up & down different levels to get anywhere, not user friendly.....and the state of the airside infrastructure.......:eek:
Had the misfortune to use Stansted recently though, more like the Arndale centre. Asked the BAA lady where the exec lounges were, as there is nowhere to sit ( except in cafes & bars).......er there is only 1 & you can only use it if you are using certain gates. Very poor I said, well fly from somewhere else next time she replied. Cor blimey those sutherners are reet 'ard,:ouch:

[chiglet]

ML,
What can I say?
No Long Haul.....yep, Malaysian has gone. Replaced by Etihad,7x per week, Quatar, now 7x week. Emirates......cruddy service..only the ONLY HD B777 ELR 435 seats and getting an AVERAGE of 400 pax plus 15-20 tonnes of freight.....oh I forgot, they have a SECOND daily rotation.
I've flown from EMA....Nuff Sed :} I've worked at Liverpool :cool: I suggest that you look at Pax Throughput and Total Movements. THEN look at Apron space, Stand allocation, Turnround, WIP [Work in Progress]. I agree that the "Travel[n]ators] are a PITA, but the last time I flew from T2, it was clean and quick. BTW, out of interest, MAN "Tries" not to park "REMOTE"
Inevitably, some a/c have to. What's the prob? Palma, Dusseldorf,Franfurt ALL use "Remote Parking". At least at Manch, you're not herded into a pen and isolated :=
watp,iktch

[Railgun]

Emirates......cruddy service..only the ONLY HD B777 ELR 435 seats and getting an AVERAGE of 400 pax plus 15-20 tonnes of freight.....oh I forgot, they have a SECOND daily rotation.

But a full aircraft does not always mean the route makes a lot of money :ugh: :ugh: .

[Railgun]

In the days when the BAR B737s had a C cabin, they were frequently full to Amsterdam, Frankfurt & Rome.
The E145s have seen all that wither away.
Usually the DLH Frankfurt flights have more people sat in C class than the entire BACON 145.

Unfortunatly BA would rather all there PAX flew through the Hole that is LHR than fly via manchester. A large number of BA pax used to fly through LHR just to have the proper club class european product instead of the product BACX classed as club.

[Curious Pax]

But a full aircraft does not always mean the route makes a lot of money :ugh: :ugh: .

You aren't seriously suggesting that Emirates introduced a second service as a charitable gesture are you? Fact of the matter is that BA's overheads are much higher than many of the Middle and Far Eastern long haul carriers (certainly in the way they calculate the way costs are distributed around the company) and therefore the revenue that they need to generate on a particular flight to make it profitable is likely to be higher than say Emirates or Qatar.

BA's problem was compounded by the fact that their business class seats were much more likely to be filled by travellers on a point-to-point itinerary, rather than flying from MAN via places such as AMS or FRA onwards.

I often return to the example of Lufthansa - years ago they seemed to treat Munich in a similar way to how BA treat Manchester. However in recent times they have changed it into a significant long haul hub in its own right, with the following on today's departure board, mainly with A340s: Newark, LAX, Chicago, Boston, Charlotte, Washington, JFK, Tokyo, San Francisco, Beijing, Tehran, Delhi, Shanghai, Hong Kong, plus a much wider range of feeder flights from around Europe. Interestingly their mix of foreign airlines is very similar to MAN - several US carriers, Emirates, Qatar and Etihad from the Middle East, etc, plus the mix of charter flights.

However in pax numbers Munich are ahead - 15.69 million in 1996, 23.13 in 2000, a drop back in 2001-2 like everywhere else, up to 28.62 million in 2005. In comparison, Manchester had 22.4 million in 2005 up from 14.65 million in 2005 - the difference in growth over the period where Lufthansa ramped things up is stark.

My take, although there are many others here far more qualified to comment, is that Lufthansa are succeeding at Munich for 3 main reasons - they have built a large number of feeder routes up with CRJs (50 and 70 seats), which have then progressed to larger aircraft allowing the smaller ones to be used on new destinations. These feeder routes have been used to build a significant long haul portfolio to the extent that they have got into a virtuous circle - growing short haul feeding into growing long haul. The second reason is that they have used their Star Alliance partners to build the range of services. This is in stark contrast to the way in which BA have used their One World partners at Manchester - if rumour is to be believed they have been more interested in getting them out of the way so as to allow more feed into Heathrow. Thirdly, Germany is a lot less focussed on one city generally, compared to the London focus in the UK.

Whether things have now gone too far for BA ever to consider trying the Munich model at MAN is debatable - I would say probably. It would certainly take several years patience and a large investment to turn things round, and BA (like many UK companies these days) seems to focussed on short term gain to ever consider such a plan.

[Porky Speedpig]

I need to try and add some balance to this debate following Railgun's assertion. As a Mancunian who has worked at MAN, LHR and LGW and a regular traveller through all 3 airports I do feel qualified to comment...
Even prior to T5, with the exception of Pier 3 the terminal facilities offered at LHR to all BA passengers range from very good to excellent - how long since you have been airside in LHR T1 International? The Premium lounges have had huge investment and are unrecognisable from previous years. LGW NT is now almost 20 years old but still looks fresher, more spacious and more appealing than any of the MAN terminals including T3 which is much newer.
You say that BA prefers to fly its passengers through LHR - this Sunday it offers a total capacity of 965 seats, effectively unchanged since the days of 10 x 99 seat BAC1-11s 25 years or more ago when there was also a full range of European 2 class services so I do not buy the "diversion over London" argument. Finally consider which of the airlines serving MAN makes the most money for its owners (which includes me!). If that is its business judgement, it is fine by me (and them!).

[Railgun]

So would you rather fly BA via LHR to get to AMS or take a direct KLM flight?

[Porky Speedpig]

Railgun, just tried it on BA website - Nonstop flights offered first, connect over LHR not even on the front screen.

Choose Your Departure Flight

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Price guide: Lowest Higher

Fri 19 May 2006 from Manchester to John F Kennedy (New York)
Price Time Airport Flight Operated By
£175 10:00 Manchester John F Kennedy (New York) BA1503 BritishAirways

[Railgun]

Porky Speedpig

That comes as a shock to be honest and i take back my incorrect comments on it.

[ManchesterMan]

Railgun.....

So why would you go double-daily
If you couldnt get the yield??????

Earth to Planet Railgun come-in....


MM

[Railgun]

ManchesterMan

Because if BA sold MAN-JFK more for throught traffic they could go double daily.

Search on BA.com for flights to JFK from EDI, GLA, ABZ even the IOM the first fair on the IOM-JFK return is one trying to get you to return to LHR then go to LTN for your IOM flight!

[spannersatcx]

You aren't seriously suggesting that Emirates introduced a second service as a charitable gesture are you?

Airlines do, when CX introduced the 3rd daily flt to LHR, the airline was quite happy to make a loss on it as it was deemed more marketable/presdigious or whatever to have 3 daily flts to LHR than 2. It is now the case with the 4th flt, quite happy to make a loss etc etc.

I guess they must be happy because they are certainly making a loss on it, that's for sure.(must be where my profit share went)

Far East and other LH carriers won't fly to MAN because their pax want to fly to London, not a regional airport The last time I flew home from HKG I would guess that at least 75% of the pax on the LHR-MAN flt had just got off the CX flt (and it happens more often than not). When CX had a pax flt at Man, a lot went out via LHR and back in to MAN, this was due to the poor slot time that CX insisted on out of MAN.

Unfortunately with airlines like CX they only see the UK as London and nothing more, as I believe the largest Chineese community in the UK is Manchester region you'd think they (CX) would make more of a go of it and not just fly to London!

We live in hope I guess.:ugh:

[Mr A Tis]

Yes, I flew on the 3rd daily CX service from HKG-LHR, not long after it was introduced. Every pax had 3 seats & loads more to spare. In fact most of the pax were MAN/AMS bound as a late departure out of SYD caused us to miss our (then) direct AMS/MAN flt. In fact without the MAN pax on board the LHR flt, the crew would have outnumbered the passengers.

[Vuelo]

From the rumours I have heard, AA are looking at starting Manchester to Dallas three times a week and Manchester to Los Angeles three times a week.

Does anyone know anymore? They seem to be up to something as they are recruitng more ground staff.

[spanishflea]

Would make a lot of sense. A true west coast link has been missing for ages as everyone is too aware, and the connections offered through Dallas are nothing short of immense.

[toledoashley]

On the easyJet front - there are some routes that they could operate from current bases. Namely Basle, Berlin and Milan. Could also open new markets namely Morocco/Croatia/Baltics and maybe the Italian Islands in the Summer (Sicily/Sardinia). - Just a thought!

[peakp]

Anybody know why airlines charge different tax rates out of MAN.

Example:-
Man - PMI Sunday 2 July
BMIBABY £13.95
Jet2 £16.00
Monarch £25.03

LPL - Pmi Same date
E.J. £5.00
As every passenger has to pay the goverment £5.0 to fly,do liverpool airport
not charge E.J. for using the airport,or are there taxes hidden in the air fare.
In reply to TOLEDOASHLEY, note BA fly to Berlin, and BA & Alitalia fly to Milan

Regards PeakP

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Thomsonfly are due to start scheduled flights to Marakesh this winter ex Manchester and GB Airways I think start at end of October

Whilst I am on can anybody give a reason as to why the Bangladesh now operates via Heathow and not on to New York as I am hearing several different stories

G-I-B

[spanishflea]

Anybody know why airlines charge different tax rates out of MAN.
Example:-
Man - PMI Sunday 2 July
BMIBABY £13.95
Jet2 £16.00
Monarch £25.03
LPL - Pmi Same date
E.J. £5.00
As every passenger has to pay the goverment £5.0 to fly,do liverpool airport
not charge E.J. for using the airport,or are there taxes hidden in the air fare.
In reply to TOLEDOASHLEY, note BA fly to Berlin, and BA & Alitalia fly to Milan
Regards PeakP

"Taxes and Charges" emphasis on the charges bit. Airlines can throw pretty much anything they like in there.

[peakp]

To G.I.B.

FAA refused bangladash permission to fly from Man due to security issue.
Flights had to go via Brussels. May return in June to Man.
This is only what I heard.

[toledoashley]

Theres nothing wrong with competition

[peakp]

toledoashley

I agree, but tell that to BA. Time to go and watch the cup final

[toledoashley]

There is no future for BA @ MAN

[Railgun]

toledoashley

There is no future for BA anywhere in the UK but London Heathrow come 2008.

[toledoashley]

Quite True!

[Railgun]

Anyhow lets get back on topic....

[Mouser]

To
the last two blokes do you include GB Airways this assessment.

[toledoashley]

I am a travel agent - had a meeting with on of thier sales ladies the other day. They said that they are their own operation and do what they like, so I think GB will stay. (They pay BA £1.5m for the use of the brand!)

[Railgun]

Guess it depends if GB begins to turn there business around. Last year they made a £5M loss (Not just the MAN base) and it depends how long they can sustain that sort of loss for.

[Vuelo]

Looks like the Maham reduction in service may just be a temporary reduction, with a return to a twice weekly service in July. Have heard that if all goes to plan, a IKA - MAN - YYZ/YVR service is a real possibility.

On another note, I hear from my sources at Barcelona airport, that Iberia;s new low cost arm is to re-commence services between the Spanish city and Manchester, at last re-establishing some competition on the route, which used to have three carriers, and now only has 1(Monarch) and a once weekly unreliable Air Scotland service, of course. (Not much uise for the businessman.) We shall see what happens.

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone Know how well the CWL service is going as I heard it was sometimes operating with single passsenger numbers?

[EGCC4284]

Does anyone know if the A380 will visit EGCC this week or sometime soon.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

My understanding is no UNLESS ATC can talk them into doing a go around on the way to Chester inbound from Hamburg

G-I-B

[EGCC4284]

G-I-B

What day and what time are they due at Chester and yes please, can they talk them into it.

What time would this be?????

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

It is due Chester 10.40Z so if it were to do an approach to Manchester I would guess at about 10-15 minutes earlier
and I do stress IF, I would guess this would only happen if Manchester was on runway 24
So all in all I would just keep an eye out on Thursday

G-I-B

[jay_hl]

What day this week is it due at Chester?

Sorry! I should read the WHOLE post before posting a reply.

Thursday it is!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Sorry I should have said Thursday 18th

G-I-B

[elgan]

GB going lo-co at MAN from June 26th. Al flights to be operated under the BACON brand
No more free in-flight meals. Was expected

http://www.gbairways.com/baconnect/summary/

[Mr A Tis]

The curse of Planetalk strikes again.
In the latest issue a picture of the launch of Aer Arann service to Angers.
How many days did that last?
On the plus side, I believe they have switched to Nantes instead from Manchester - how is that doing then?

[jsd95]

Exact, Nantes is now served instead of Angers from Cork and Manchester. Logical choice, Nantes is France's sixth biggest city with an airport of 2,200,000 pax per year, a big economic and touristic pole, but Angers, which is also a lovely city, is much smaller and bad-known out of France, with aan airport with nearly no commercial traffic.

Nantes is real advantage for an airline compared to Angers or any other place in Western France...

[eggc]

from ailiners.net forum...

I recently had a very nice conversation with a leading Senior Accountant of Saudia of their JED head office and here is what he had to say concerning their future international expansion from this winter :

a) Twice weekly flights to Toronto in 2007 to be routed via Manchester using Boeing 747-300s or Boeing 777-200ERs. No 5th freedom rights avbl on MAN-YYZ-MAN but the MAN market for them is so huge that Im told to not be surprised if a B 743 is indeed used for this route.

[1DC]

I have a 0500 check in at T1 next week, can anyone tell me if anywhere will be open for breakfast at that time? Is it possible to get a decent breakfast airside or landside?
Appreciate any replies....

[spannersatcx]

No and No.:yuk:

[MAN777]

You can get breakfast/food but whether you call it decent is another matter.

[1DC]

Thanks for the replies, looks like a cold bacon sarnie in the jacket pocket then.. Lovely!!

[sacktheboard]

Hey ! what do you guys think of the new staff channel on T1 at MAN
I believe it's very busy and tempers are flarring.

[Fuel Crossfeed]

It was very quiet in the middle of the afternoon the other day, but with only one x-ray machine for bags, and one walk through machine I can image it will get very busy when there is more than one crew and at shift change time. They stop every 4th person to search as well!! Good old MAN airport making it harder for those who work there!!
Only positve I can see is we dont have to mingle with the walk on frieght.

[hapzim]

About time. It never goes down well with the pax in the queue when crews have to make there way to the front.

Crews/staff should be screened seperately to provide the fare paying punters with a better service.

[Momentary Lapse]

Where is it then? At the bottom of the concourse next to the cafe?

Wait till it goes upstairs. My how we'll laugh at all the wheelchairs, prams etc. going up a (broken) escalator or lift, thru security then down again. But it's good for the shops apparently so that's ok.

[agent x]

Huh? The new staff channel is inder the escalator going out on to the Southern Front......wait till what goes upstairs? :confused:

[Vuelo]

The new staff channel to go airside at T1 is a joke! I was faced with 15 crew members ahead of me this morning at 0530, so I just gave up and went to the old channel instead and had an argument with the silly moo who said no staff could use that channel anymore. I felt so smug when I told her that the agency I work for, along with three others, are exemot and can now use any airside entry security point!! Ha-haaaaa!!!

[jongeman]

It just goes to show what load of bollocks MAN seems to be becoming. The management of the place seem completely inept. On the one hand they've failed to attract significant new business (CX, TG etc...?) and on the other hand, they're shifting current operators around to try to make terminal usage fit capacity, and they're making life hard for crews trying to pass through security.

They need to be seen to be doing something......

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

No new business ?
Etihad, Delta New York
There is a problem with Cathay not of Manchesters making
Thai are hoping for a start next year!! but they have promised that for the last 10 years
Prospect of Saudi and Northwest or so we are told

Info is hard to comeby after the last couple of years when
sensitive info was released and upset airlines

G-I-B

[bigmuk]

What is the bobby moore with CX and KA ? Does anyone know ?

[EGCC4284]

Virgin A340-600 ???????????????????????

Anyone else heard

[Scottie Dog]

I do not apologise for having taken the subject from another website, but I am interested that nothing seems to have appeared on this thread.

Is there any truth in the talk of a low cost terminal, for which apparently approval has been given?

What time scale is the airport authority talking in terms of?

No smoke without fire.....

[mikeyuk]

EGCC4282 Virgin A340-600 ???????????????????????
Anyone else heard
Heard what ?

[Momentary Lapse]

Security will move upstairs if they can do it cheap enough. Whether it'll work is another matter.

Basically all pax (except wheelchairs/mobility challenged/pushchairs) will have to go up to the mezzanine, through what is currently Garfunkels/Lancaster for security, then back down into what is currently the security area. Apparently it will allow more airside shops where security is now, because the Accessorize area can be made airside by bricking up the doors and demolishing the back wall.

Seems like nothing gets built or maintained unless the blessed retail goes up. I know that retail income offsets landing charges and all that, but I really think they've milked that cash cow as far as they can. There are enough shops already, and apart from the bars/cafes/WHSmith/Boots etc. they are mostly empty except for a bored staff member chewing gum.

If it works in T1 they'll try it in T2 as part of the next phase as well.

Low cost terminal - didn't some of the masterplan options include a 4th terminal on the site of the current cargo centre? Has the masterplan been published yet? When is the deadline to do so?

[EGCC4284]

That they may be using one out of EGCC in the very near future.

[Vuelo]

Had an interesting chat today with a Jet2 cabin crew member who mentioned that they had heard LS were looking at CDG, DUS and LIS from Manchester. This would be great if it were true, as there is no lo-co op to Paris since WW pulled the route, and NI's pull-out has surely left at least a demand for a three times a week service to Lisbon. As for Dusseldorf, well, look at Air Berlin and HLX...great loads on both so no wonder LS would want a piece of the action. I'd like to see some competition on the BCN route too...though there was a whisper that this new loco from Iberia might come in and operate this.

As regards the changes to departures at T...well sadly we are all in for a long slog. The work starts soon and it will take TWO years I have heard. In that time there will be very limited access for special needs pax through the new upper level security entrance whilst lifts and excalators are insalled. This emans they will be using the new staff security entrance, so prepare yourself to be stuck behind wheelchairs, buggies, doddery old codgers and countles crew!

[Mr A Tis]

Well this new security idea in T1 sounds a right fiasco to me.
Last Friday evening at 8pm, the queue for securty stretched to Boots landside, are they expecting people to queue on the escaltor then, in future?
Or past the Donkey Stone, which is always closed when anyone wants a drink?
And YES, I agree, there are already far too many shops !!! By the time you get through security, there isn't much time to shop. I always head for the Globeground lounge anyway, but when I went thro the other week, it took me 35 minutes to get thro' security, so there wasn't time to even do that !:eek:

[gayrugbybloke]

We all know that MAN is basically a shopping centre with a few runways attached! It;s just a fact of airport life that if there is any spare space to be had, then it'll be filled with a shop.

As someone who worls at MAN, it's be nice to have some shops that also appeal to workers...NEXT, GAP, Tesco Metro, Threshers, McDonalds, TopShop/Man.....are just a few suggestions.

As regards Jet2, I can;t see them expanding at all again from MAN...the loads are not that fantastic except for MJV, AGP and ALC..indeed I am staggered that LGW, EDI and AMS are still running.

I think the most reliable rumopur I have heard and heard from a very reliable source is the talk of a daily Detroit operated by Northwest.

[Going loco]

"As for Dusseldorf, well, look at Air Berlin..."

Your point being? Their MAN-DUS route was a disaster. Too much competition from established full service boys at MAN + two CGN services from MAN and LPL. No room for them it seemed and I seriously doubt Jet2 will be foolish enough to try and force their way in.

Almost every route Jet2 has started from MAN has been scaled back and I see from the winter schedules that even MAN-AGP is just 3 x weekly which is another one to add to the list. Expansion in the NW is much more likely to come at Blackpool which is at least not on the doorstep of Ryanair and Easy at LPL.

loco

[jongeman]

Not really surprising that LS winter AGP schedules have been scaled back to thrice weekly (only in the quieter non-Christmas and New Year times), because the route must be absolutely saturated with BA, WW and ZB vying for passengers, also now up against Blackpool, Liverpool, Doncaster and everywhere else services.

It's also quite disappointing to hear talk of LS CDG and DUS, as if MAN needs more services to these places.......there's a constant theme at MAN of a multitude of different airlines battling it out to the same boring old destinations! Give us Tampere, Carcasonne and Gerona for God sake!

[conradmueller]

"As for Dusseldorf, well, look at Air Berlin..."
Your point being? Their MAN-DUS route was a disaster. Too much competition from established full service boys at MAN + two CGN services from MAN and LPL. No room for them it seemed and I seriously doubt Jet2 will be foolish enough to try and force their way in.
Almost every route Jet2 has started from MAN has been scaled back and I see from the winter schedules that even MAN-AGP is just 3 x weekly which is another one to add to the list. Expansion in the NW is much more likely to come at Blackpool which is at least not on the doorstep of Ryanair and Easy at LPL.
loco
Air Berlin´s problems was that they didn´t advertise the route enough, just als V Bird did.

[crewboi83]

Regarding Jet2s flight fromMAN....
First of all, its not only the MJV ALC and AGPs that are full.
Nearly every flight i check in for is full these days. in the last few weeks ive done FCO BUD AMS AGP ALC PMI to name a few and i can assure u the pax figure is NEVER below about 120
The first 757 flights started this week and thy look busy. The ALC and PMI te other day both went out with 228 which is full.
Regarding new routes and listening to crew... i wouldnt believe it. At jet2 even the crew dont find out till everyone else, they only way we find out about new routes is to keep updated on Jet2
We have heard rumours of 767s JFK SFB BOS and many many more so untill it happens and ur on the flight I wouldnt believe it. That applies to everything in aviation and not just Jet2 this the one of the worst industries for gossip and the rumour network.
I can see expansion at MAN. Leeds is a well established base and they continue to grow; Jet2 are always on the look out and im sure new routes will come along soon.

Also with the 757s in MAN for the winter the AGP might be operated by a 757 so daily is not needed, so techincally not a decrease in capacity.

[FlyZB]

To say LS is only busy on 3 routes is crazy talk. Working for MYT, we check in next to them and they always have queues throughout much of the day. They wouldn't keep operating routes out of MAN if they weren't doing well. A reduction down to 3 x weekly AGP during the winter months is hardly shocking stuff. The Costa del Sol is not a massive winter destination compared to the likes of the Canaries and after all, ZB reduce their MAN - AGP frequency from 3 x daily to just daily and not an eye lid is batted!

[gayrugbybloke]

flyGlobespan to start scheduled MAnchester to Toronto services this winter, tickets on sale now.

[chiglet]

OOI
When I left work at 2pm, Manch was [only] 400ish movements down on last year [for May]. Also the Flybee had 70pax to Northwich, sorry Norwich.
watp,iktch

[BombardierCR7]

Jet 2 have anounced MAN-TFS 3x weekly from 30th Oct.

[Miss World]

anyone know of any decent jobs going at Manchester at the mo??

Im working as cabin crew based there now... Im applying for cabin crew at a London base next year and thinking maybe a summer season not in the sky is a good idea, but want to stay within the industry.

Cheers guys x

[elgan]

Evening all

Just wondering where bmi's A330's are plonked at T3 since the move last week?

I read in the press release that they were using gate 49 and 55, but BA have used 49 for the last few years, and AA usualy have gate 55

Any ideas?

[gayrugbybloke]

BMI A330s use 55 and 44
AA 757/767s use 54 and 53, occasionally 48
BA 767 use 49
GT 320s use the spaces left, along with WW 737s

If rumours are to be believed, AA are to start some new services soon, possibly Dallas and/or Los Angeles?? There could be space if BD move all long haul ops to LHR if the Bermuda agrement gets tweaked.

[elgan]

gayrugbybloke

My word! Queuing for my ORD flight in 4 weeks time will be fun if its on Gate 44!

[Railgun]

elgan

It will be either gate 44 or gate 55 as they are the only 2 stands suitable for a A330.

[gayrugbybloke]

£25 million make-over for Terminal 1

Catering and retail outlets in Terminal 1 are to be given a £25 million overhaul to attract more big names and extend the choice of brands and products available for passengers.

The ground-breaking redevelopment programme is scheduled to begin from September so the first phase can be completed in time for the start of next year’s main holiday season.

The aim is to create a much more welcoming and stress-free environment which will encourage passengers to relax while exploring a wider range of top quality stores, restaurants and bars before boarding flights.

Passengers have helped to shape the redesign by telling us what they want and need in response to customer satisfaction surveys.

Artists impressions of how the make-over will look have been sent to major retailers and caterers to give them the opportunity to get involved. While high-street retailers are feeling the pinch, airport-based stores and sales outlets are enjoying a growth in retail income and so interest in the scheme is predicted to be brisk.

[Adola69]

Retail re-development of T1, M.A. Plc strike again ?! What a load of tosh. Stopppppp all spending on major projects, (Just because pax numbers have slipped back a couple of percent 2004 levels)but hey lets throw 25m at retail again ( Third time retailing has been re-developed in ten years), and say its to help passengers have a more pleasant & less stessfull experience! The way to make it less stressfull is to allow them a hassle free throughput from the time of check-in to boarding, something which is only a dream at present. ( What a joy Amsterdam is compared to MANTAT. Case in point.
I arrived at check-in the other day two hours before the flight,at 0530 to spend twenty five minutes in the queue. Only 1 hour thirty-five until dep. time now. The next hurdle was security where it took 35 minutes to complete the task, after winding round the lovely queing system. ( Why does water in a clear plastic bottle have to pass through the x-ray machine??) Only one hour to go now. Got to have something to eat as I missed breakfast, joined the breakfast queue and ate a bacon sandwich. only 40 minutes left now. Time to visit those oh so sweet smelling toilets!! Oh no, on turning the corner into Bog alley, the Urine monster has struck again and left his trail of foul odour once more in the place. Do the urinals ever flush or is it just once every half hour due to water conservation?- ( After washing one's hands how do you move to the dryers, sometimes twenty feet away whilst carrying a jacket and a bag? Oh it appears my hands have dried themselves on the said jacket!!). Leave Bog-hell and look at the screens, which say proceed to gate. Oh well so much for my retail shopping experience. I really must arrive four hours ahead of the flight next time. On second thoughts naaahhh, I'll have my breakfast at home and get there with just an hour and fifteen to go, stuff the shopping, far less hassle that way!!!! ( May still have to visit those toilets though! Do Boots sell nose clips?)
:*

[Mr A Tis]

I'm with you Adola69.
Who wants more shops, when after the check in queues & then security queues, there simply isn't time to shop !....and no, the answer is not to have 4 hour check-ins. The MAN airport experience ( T1 anyway),is often longer than the flight you are going on.
If they want to improve the passenger experience, then get T1 all on one level for a start, get walkways escaltors & lifts working, reduce obscene securty queues, do something with the airside toilets & improve the ramp infrastruture so you are not sat on an aircraft on pier charlie, waiting 20 odd minutes for push back. I think that would improve things for passengers rather than a new Burtons.

[AUTOGLIDE]

Exactly, I have a distant memory of MAN being efficient and easy to use. Now woth all the hassle I can't be bothered to use the shops. Time for a return to getting the basics right.

[BombardierCR7]

shops = revenue
security = costs
check in = costs

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Just read on airliner.net that the Libyan now has a start date of 18th June, can anyone confirm this?

G-I-B

[Momentary Lapse]

I did warn you.

Some very sensible comments here. Get the basics right then worry about the shops. Apart from the bars, cafes and the basics like WHS and Boots, most of the poncy shops are empty most of the time anyway.

Pax figs down therefore build more shops? What about finding out why figs are down and tackle that first? Customer service? Usability? Apron condition? Capacity? Nah, not enough shops. Obvious really.

Time for the fat controller to leave.

[peakp]

G.I.B.

Libyan shown as op days 4&7 Dept. trip.10.15 arr man 13.10

Dept. man 14.15 arr trip 19.30
A/c A320
www.aaco.org/schedule
regards
peakp

[AUTOGLIDE]

shops = revenue
security = costs
check in = costs


Unfortunately more like:

Security (queues) = pax go to another airport.
Check-in (queues) = pax go to another airport
Shops = (because of queues) pax can't be bothered with them, and they are mostly too downmarket anyway, all that's missing in T1 is a branch of Poundsaver.

[lexxity]

Autoglide I don't think there is a problem with the quality of the shops in T1 unless Monsoon, Cotton Traders, Waterstones and the designer store next door are downmarket.:confused:

The problem is the appalling security queues, B pier, the never working travellators on C pier, the shambles that is the satellite and the ramp congestion. The best thing that could happen to T1 would be for it to be torn down and rebuilt. The airport does not need yet more retail.

[phil_2405]

The best thing that could happen to T1 would be for it to be torn down and rebuilt. The airport does not need yet more retail.

I believe thats the longer term plan.

[jongeman]

I've never had a problem with T1. I like it. I've been in check-in and security queues in Manchester, Liverpool, Los Angeles, Jersey, Harare, Malaga, Melbourne (always horrendous), Sydney and probably Petropavlovsk-Kamchatskiy:rolleyes:

[TG345]

Exactly, I have a distant memory of MAN being efficient and easy to use. Now woth all the hassle I can't be bothered to use the shops. Time for a return to getting the basics right.
I too remember when one could actually quite agree with all the hype about MAN being amongst the world's best. I guess that was about mid-nineties? What has gone so wrong?

[Ametyst]

A tale of two cities.

I flew from Liverpool on 25th May and went through security at about 6am. There was a long queue which was snaking around the lines and moving. When I got to the search area there were 4 x-ray machines and frames operating and I counted just over 30 security staff. Total time waiting was 7 minutes.

Fast forward to 27th May and I was flying from Manchester's Terminal 3 and went through security at about 5:30am. The queue (2 lines) stretched back to the bridge to the car park by the VLM check-in desk. Eventually got to the search area and there were just 2 x-ray machines and frames operating and just over half the staff that Liverpool had. Total time waiting was 35 minutes. Although at least that was better than Heathrow's Terminal 4 but don't get me on to that.

Terminal 3 used to be a nice terminal to fly from until they added BMI Baby. The check-in queues were horrendous as well.

[Tommyinyork]

My view is Terminal 3 is completley different to T1 and T2 at MAN, everything seems much faster and it is nice and small, which is alot better.

[semisonic]

i know its a like an unwanted child now, but how is the bmi ORD route working out for MAN?

[peakp]

Manchester A/port. have announced Three new routes

Libyan Arab Airlines to Tripoli starting next Sunday 2xper week A320

Astraeus to Cape Verde start date in November Thursday 1xweek 737!

and as stated elsewhere Globespan to Toronto from November 1xweek 767

also stated Globespan are looking at L.A. (and or) San Fran.

Regards
peakp

[initial]

bmibaby winter schedule released

Seem to be similar frequencies to last winter. Good to see Perpignan continuing (5 times a week)

As expected Newquay dropped, replaced by Geneva

[charlie1234]

Hi does anybody know what short haul routes Monarch's A300/A330/B767 are operating from MAN?

thanks

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

First Libyan Airlines flight to Manchester has arrived

G-I-B

[peakp]

Hi does anybody know what short haul routes Monarch's A300/A330/B767 are operating from MAN?

thanks

A330-B767 look to be on long haul
A300-doing the europe sun circuit on charters. On Saturday afternoon one is on the ZB run to PMI and I think on Sunday ZB to Faro.

Regards
peakp

[1DC]

Mrs 1DC and i went through T1 at 0530 on 31/5 travelling on the early MON to Alicante, check in was swift and painless and security looked busy but only took about ten minutes. Airside was pretty full. The thing that shocked me was the smoking room, it was packed with smokers and many children. it was a shame to look through the window and see children sitting inside holding a coat or jumper to their faces. Surely children should be banned from such places..

[bycrewlgw]

I do agree with children being in a smoking area it's not really fair on them. But it really comes down to the parents rather than introducing a ban. The parents should be more considerate of their children's health (Bit of a hypocrate - i'm a smoker). Shouldn't be a problem for much longer anyway with the blanket ban of smoking in public places........:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: lol

[Momentary Lapse]

Have the World's Best Airport's passenger figures improved since they started getting rid of staff?

[elgan]

How is T3 now with the increase in pax?

I'm flying bmi to ORD next week, and was wondering how packed is airside and landside now?

I'll be aiming to get there early to TRY and miss the queue for both Chicago and Antigua on Friday! :\

[lexxity]

Elgan why not check in the night before? Then you can turn up at -60?

[elgan]

lexxity

Would love to lexxity, but we live 2:30hrs away in north wales so really don't see us doing 2 round trips to MAN in 12 hours sadly,and no reasonable rates of accomodation around MAN either ah well

[Playamar2]

Some changes for Winter 06/07

Air Berlin reduce Hamburg from 6 to 3 per week
Sky Europe - no Salzburg flights
Hapag Lloyd Express - increase Koln to 6 per week, daily ex.Sat

Playamar2

[andybsei]

elgan, i think lexxity was talking about BMI online check-in.
Just go to their website and click on Online check-in in manage your booking.
Dead easy! :)

[initial]

Think Skyeurope Salzburg flights simply not released yet.
Winter timetable sees Bratislavia inbound arrive at MAN at 12.20 and outbound leave at 19.00 on Weds and Sats. Cant see aircraft being parked up all that time.
Thomsonfly launching 'frequent' Salzburg flights this winter so maybe they are seeing how they perform before commiting themselves. Rotation could always be used for another destination.

[elgan]

elgan, i think lexxity was talking about BMI online check-in.
Just go to their website and click on Online check-in in manage your booking.
Dead easy! :)
Oh?
I thought only short haul you could check-in online for andybsei?

[agent x]

online check in cannot be used for *any* longhaul flight that BD operates and will not work if tried. What lexxity was infact talking about andybsei was the Night Before Check in that is offered for all BD longhaul flights only that is open between 7pm and 9pm at Terminal 3 Check in desk number 23 every evening.

[elgan]

agent x

Yeah thought so, as i say i live too far away for that service sadly!

[Alloy]

Jerez added by Monarch starting in March.:ok:

[aeulad]

I know this probably has absolutely NOTHING to do with me, BUT I did email them a few months back suggesting this one:eek:

Regards

Mike

[Curious Pax]

At the risk of re-opening old wounds, and offending the sensibilities of Speke fans, it is claimed that Easyjet have applied for slots for MXP-MAN-MXP; MAN-GVA-MAN and BSL-MAN-BSL. Seems plausible - EasySwiss operate such flights to a number of UK airports (as destinations, not bases), and Milan would make sense as Alitalia are the only competition (and expensive with it I am told). We shall see......

[jongeman]

BA Connect also offer MAN-MXP, with prices that also require a re-mortgage, so EZY would be very welcome.

[gayrugbybloke]

We have been here before....notably Summer 2005! EZY were appling for slots left right and centre.

[Curious Pax]

Yes and no - last time it appeared that they were looking at setting up a base to some extent; this time they are looking at MAN just as a destination. Doubtless if they happen, the performance of these routes will dictate how EZY at MAN pans out in the future, but this seems like a sensible way of doing it if they can get decent slots.

[Vuelo]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/217/217302_airport_set_for_huge_expansion.html

[AeroMANC]

See link below:-

Looks like more Work-in-Progress!

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/web.nsf/Content/masterplan/$File/Master+plan+-+05-07-06.pdf

AeroMANC

[lexxity]

Slight thread drift here.

Taken from the article.

"In fact the reverse is true. Outbound tourism from Manchester costs the region millions of pounds in income exported to Spain, the USA and other destinations, unmatched by visitors to Manchester.

"Cheap flights cost our leisure industry millions as it's cheaper to fly abroad than take a taxi into the city centre."

So basically we should all stay at home and spend on stuff we alread have or have seen. And if taxis are so expensive who's fault is that!?

Idiot.....

Sorry, carry on.

[IB4138]

Going a bit further on lexxy's point in the article:

Outbound tourism from Manchester costs the region millions of pounds in income exported to Spain, the USA and other destinations, unmatched by visitors to Manchester.

So they don't want the ex-pats from the region to come back either. Yes we are inbound visitors.

Time someone counted the numbers, correctly, of ex-pat paxs who return home from Manchester, after being fleeced in the North West's shops, catering establishments, pubs and taxis.

What a load of tosh!

[Vuelo]

AZ is no longer bookable from the start of the winter season. The plane is off somewhere more profitable.

[Adola69]

How many times has AZ started and stopped this service over years? At least four times that I know of!!
However it May have something to do with a possible slot application by Easyjet, MXP-MAN-MXP. 2 x daily I hear!
Let the doubtings begin !!!
:D

[Bagso]

if AZ cannot make this work its pretty bad news.....following MAS BWIA Portugalia and Estonian !

If Manchester had retained these lost services plus all the others it would be like LHR by now !

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Bagso

How do you know it is the Airport's fault and not the airline's faults for selecting routes or aircraft which cannot break even.

[chiglet]

AZ running at 80% plus with the Womblejet :D
watp,iktch

[Playamar2]

Now that GB Airways Manchester flights come under the BA Connect 'banner' the TFS flight which operates daily all the year round at more or less the same time 1555hrs(I know its in the morning on Weds) has been upgraded in the Winter06 timetable.
Two flights per day on Tue, Thu & Fri at 0710hrs and 1755hrs (gets back at some ridiculous hour like 0330!)Mon & Wed departs at 1500hrs, Sat at 1310hrs and Sun at 1730hrs.All flights with on a A321.
Gives plenty of choice of departure times, increase in number of flights and larger aircraft.

Playamar2

[SectorSafe]

Ref GB Airways -- All flights from MAN from Oct will be operated by an A321 in a single class config...

MON - PFO DEPART 0900 RETURN 2000

TUE - TFS DEPART 0710 RETURN 1650 TFS DEPART 1750 RETURN 0330

WED - PFO DEPART 0900 RETURN 2000

THU - TFS DEPART 0710 RETURN 1650

FRI - TFS DEPART 0710 RETURN 1650 TFS DEPART 1750 RETURN 0330

SAT - TFS DEPART 0710 RETURN 1650

SUN - PFO DEPART 1335 RETURN 0050


From what I understand, the gaps are being filled with some charter work to ski destinations....

[darren1]

Bagso

How do you know it is the Airport's fault and not the airline's faults for selecting routes or aircraft which cannot break even.

Or perhaps it's just a general lack of interest from the local population? I can't believe a Lisbon service couldn't work.

[gayrugbybloke]

Does this mean the end of GB Airways to Malaga, Arrecife, Las Palmas, Malta andMarrakesh?

[Railgun]

gayrugbybloke

I believe so for the winter season at least. Going back to seemingly core routes and not throwing money down the drain.

[Mouser]

AS I understand, one based a/c for winter 06, so yes is the answer, then reverting back to two based i/c next summer.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Or perhaps it's just a general lack of interest from the local population? I can't believe a Lisbon service couldn't work.


Well if it is a lack of interest, then not enough route research has been done prior to starting the service - unless they hoped to make their money on bringing people into MAN.

[Bagso]

...er not sure in my statement where I did suggest it was the airports fault unless I missed something...but yes you are right if the airport underperforms clearly the management must surely take some of the blame.. OR have all the airlines that have withdrawn done so purely because they themselves are in trouble ?

I am less than convinced that the bosses are brilliant at running Manchester.

Cyclically most although not all airports grow by 3% and 5% regardless of the people running the ship, I for one cannot help thinking that this is the case at MAN when you hear some of the stories of incompetence relating to the place....

Quite frankly if you had a bunch of monkeys in charge it would still do well, the measure of a great operation is to do really well....our pax figures sometimes seem to always somehow hide the truth - yes it does well BUT in my view could do much better !

As for the hot air re the expansion plans, I recall a similar headline on the MEN 25 years ago when AA and SIA started...

"Gateway To The World" it bellowed....!

..well sorry but 25 years on we have one pathetic intercontinetal service by the "National Airline" to JFK and no services to Japan, Australia, South Africa, Hong Kong, China, India....

...that says it all really !

[Mr A Tis]

Yes, if only MAN could have retained the carriers they lost, it would be truly busy & international.........BWIA, Air Jamaica, Malaysian, Qantas, Gulf Air, Cathay, South African, Estonian, Northwest, Air Seychelles, Air Mauritious, Austrian, Lauda Air,Air India, Malev,Portugalia,soon to be joined by Alitalia, these are just a few I can think of, I'm sure there are many many more.

[jongeman]

ALL airports around the world lose air service, hugely disappointing as it is, it's not a purely MAN phenomenon. London no longer has PR or GA, and it's impossible to fly direct to Durban, Lilongwe, Santiago, San Diego, Brisbane, Adelaide etc. Melbourne lost BA, Brussels lost its hub status and Far East airlines, Chicago has lost plenty too.
What Manchester has always suffered from is an overly ambitious management, promises to be a 'Gateway to the World', but unfortunately a relative lack of high yielding business passengers, when compared to other cities. It's obscene still that the vast bulk of big British business/corporations have become based in the south east, but although that's not a topic for this forum, it goes a long way in explaining air service provision.
From the rather sad list you give Mr A Tis, there is still plenty of demand for the cities these airlines served, but in general there was a greater need for these airlines to consolidate operations, and maximise slot availability at London. One or two of them said this was the case, MK for example. Oh, and NW has never served MAN with passenger flights!
The best way to look at it I find, is to remind yourself that for a non-capital city airport, and for a non-hub, having so many successful transatlantic services and the daily SQ service is still pretty good going.
I think that T2 initially was planned as an intercontinental terminal, like LHR3 and it would have been with BW QF MH CX SA and AI at the stands.

[jongeman]

BWIA, Air Jamaica, Malaysian, Qantas, Gulf Air, Cathay, South African, Estonian, Northwest, Air Seychelles, Air Mauritious, Austrian, Lauda Air,Air India, Malev,Portugalia,soon to be joined by Alitalia

BW JM........Caribbean services relaced by VS and these will hopefully expand.

MH CX........CX will reappear one day, and if not then Oasis HK might. TG will too, and then there will hopefully be something to Shanghai/Beijing. And then, SQ planning to increase to 10 weekly, so no losses in terms of Far East.

QF.........Expect to see Jetstar withing the next 5 years. Also MAN on the back burner for NZ. They very nearly came to MAN, but slot at LHR materialised.

GF........since GF left, massive expansion from EK, EY and QR. Out of these, GF never had a proper hub at AUH.

AI........give it a couple of years and Jet, Indian or Kingfisher will arrive.

SA.......bmi also came very close to starting JNB, but alas Riyadh beckoned. There's no promise of a JNB service, but FlyGlobespan to CPT might be a success.

MA......Jet2

OS/Lauda.....directly replaced by BA, and now NE to Bratislava.

I could go on, but just to make a point that all is not lost.

[ManchesterMan]

BAGSO

Clearly you are a person of some standing in this
paticular field,how enlightening it is to know we
have someone as forward thinking and positive in
our midst!

Why on Gods earth you have not been snapped
up by Manchesters head hunters is beyond all
belief.

Clearly a person of your calibre must be working
in a tough business enviroment where hundreds/
nay thousands of jobs rely on your say-so.

How much do you want for your services......just
name the price and I'm sure we can get
Manchester working again.

Viva la revolution

MM

[bagpuss lives]

Ah not the old Easyjet chestnut again....

[spannersatcx]

BW JM........Caribbean services relaced by VS and these will hopefully expand. Just gone to 10 a week, and will be double daily in November,

JM pulled out due to lack of aircraft I believe.

CX one day, one can hope.

[Bagso]

ManchesterMan

£500 a day should do it.....

[Mr A Tis]

BW JM........Caribbean services relaced by VS and these will hopefully expand
???
VS 10 times a week
10 times a week VS is to Orlando, hardly replacing BWIA or AJM.
VS to BGI & UVF are once a week winter only.
I also missed El AL from the list of those that have cut & run, that is despite a huge affluent Jewish community in Manchester.
I never said the list was exclusive pax operations, but Northwest was a regular scheduled cargo service, as were dedicated cargo services by Alitalia, Finnair & KLM ( oh remember when KLM & SWR operated A310s into MAN),
Sure airports lose routes for all sorts of reasons, but there seems an awful lot here. Maybe there should be something like a "route retention unit" within the MA Group, with a view to maintaining & helping to promote services. Some (airlines)have been terribly bad at publicity, maybe completely unaware of our northern culture & how to capitalise on it. Just a thought.

[jongeman]

Maybe there should be something like a "route retention unit" within the MA Group, with a view to maintaining & helping to promote services. Some (airlines)have been terribly bad at publicity, maybe completely unaware of our northern culture & how to capitalise on it. Just a thought.

I'm not disagreeing with any sentiment here, the sheer volume of lost operators is alarming. Seems to me only about 50% of new routes/airlines stick.

El Al's a good example. Manchester is one of the largest Jewish cities in the world. After London and Paris it may well be Europe's third biggest.

Route retention unit is a great idea, and I just wonder how MAG deal with this. Not very effectively it would seem.

I noticed that they're currently advertising for an 'airline network planner', on 35k with company car. I think I might apply:)

[Coasthugger]

I am less than convinced that the bosses are brilliant at running Manchester.
Just as an observation - check the CVs of the MAG executive directors. None of them have any background in aviation/airports pre-MAG (this may not be strictly true for GM but he's been at MAN a long time now).
Maybe the organisation isn't terribly outward-looking? It would be fairly typical of ex-council owned businesses if that was the case.
Perhaps Ferrovial could inject some new thinking? :}

[Playamar2]

Noticed that Finnair have reduced to one flight per day from 1st July, albeit until 12th August. They have not done that previous summers to my knowledge, though stand to be corrected. Hope its not a sign that they are going to follow the trend.

[jongeman]

Probably not. European business travel is pretty slack during July and August.

[Railgun]

Noticed that Finnair have reduced to one flight per day from 1st July, albeit until 12th August. They have not done that previous summers to my knowledge, though stand to be corrected. Hope its not a sign that they are going to follow the trend.

Happens every summer iirc.

[bigmuk]

does anyone know what the bobby moore is with a omni air intl. dc-10 dropping into manchester ????

[Mr A Tis]

DC10 been operating for My Travel

[Scottie Dog]

Not the best of figures, but at least the airport has managed (just) to keep passengers figures on the positive side:

June 2006
Passengers
% Change vs 2005
Domestic
316,078
+ 9.6
Scheduled International
928,225
+ 2.6
Charter
1,010,761
-2.8
Private / Miscellaneous
1,113
+110.0
Total
2,256,177
+ 1.0

Good to see the domestic growth of +9.6pc, presumably fed by the increase in seats being offered, and scheduled international at +2.6 (despite the loss of Malaysia other lesser carriers). A shame that charter traffic is still falling, but this must be blamed on the growth of the LCC's and the switch of numerous 'charter' flights to a 'scheduled' service style.

Scottie Dog

[Wasta]

I find that it is truly amazing that with such poor growth figures such as these, that during the last restructure, the management felt that the best way to encourage growth was to reduce the sales team to a grand total of two. Not only to cover Mancesheter, but the whole of the group! Perhaps the rumours that Manchester intends to get as much as possible out of the existing facilities and then flog the place are true? When one reads their recently published Developement Plan to 2015, it says very little about any actual developments and contains a plan showing development areas of such a large scale to be meaningless. It seems that the airport is losing its sense of direction in a very competetive environment and I'm afraid that the figures which show positive growth (just) will swing to negative in the future.

[ETOPS]

Bearing in mind that this is a rumour site, does anyone have confirmation of BMI's plans to cut back or even cease LHR flights this winter?

[Tisme]

Bearing in mind that this is a rumour site, does anyone have confirmation of BMI's plans to cut back or even cease LHR flights this winter?

Cease any particular flights inparticular from LHR or all flights in general.

[Scottie Dog]

Since this is the Manchester - 2 thread it would appear logical that ETOPS is asking whether the MAN-LHR route may be reduced or even withdrawn. Or am I understandng his question.

Personally I would have thought it highly unlikely that it would be withdrawn, as BMI have presumably to feed their long-haul routes, both ex-LHR and ex-MAN, a fact that I would think := is important to them.

Scottie Dog

[Tisme]

I would be very much surprised if they did cut it down or even stopped it. Nothing has been said at Toad Hall so I would say that it is one big rumour that is not true.

[Railgun]

Finnair are going to stop serving ARN on there evening flight and run a direct flight to HEL the same as the morning service is.

[Momentary Lapse]

reduce the sales team to a grand total of two.
If you mean TMcD and his little pet AM then realistically they are the only two in the sales team with much sales or airline experience anyway. The rest of the team, while personally very nice people, were not hugely well-trained in the ways of the airline sales world, having been mostly moved from other parts of the business as part of the company's ludicrous habit (driven by the power of the unions desperate to protect jobholders) of putting square pegs in round holes rather than getting rid of the square pegs and getting some round ones, that would have fit the holes properly and added more value for shareholders.

This is the company's former "no redundancy" policy coming back to bite them. They're chock full of square pegs in their round holes, when they could/should get some new round pegs for less money.... No wonder, as their competitors start to reach critical mass, the figures are starting to struggle.

[spud]

What's happened to the MAN - AGP route this winter ? Far fewer flights and those that operate all depart by mid morning. This is the thinnest coverage for 3 or 4 years.

Can't face going via the Londons, 2 times Gordon Brown's 'how dare you fly from a UK airport' fine.

I'm thinking of via CDG (yuk, the new terminals keep falling down and the old ones need knocking down) and via BRU (nice shops, no customers).

Suggestions on a postcard ?

[HOODED]

Why not pop across the pennines and use Jet2ex LBA 1330 dep ok for you? LS265. Think it's usually a 757.

[TG345]

Sorry if this is a random question but I am planning on booking a day trip to MAN from STN soon and would like to know what MAN is like to spend at for a few hours. It will be the first flight out from STN with Air Berlin and then the last one back so would be there for a good few hours.
Thanks
Are you looking at spending the whole day at MAN, or going into the city? Is it a spotting trip, or something else?

[spud]

Thanks Hooded, I'll look at that. Is getting from MAN to LBA any easier by public transport than MAN to LPL, i.e. is it better than awkward, pricy and allow an afternoon to do it ?

[gayrugbybloke]

There are no public transport links between MAN and LBA sadly.

[BombardierCR7]

Yes there are.

From LBA to Leeds City Station using the Airlink 757 bus, then train either to Manchester Piccadilly or direct to Manchester Airport. If you get a close connection between the airport bus and the train, then total journey time to Piccadilly is circa 1h 35, and to Manchester Airport is circa 1h 50. Mon to Sat both the trains and bus are at least every 30 mins, less frequent on a Sunday.

Similar journey time from Manchester Airport to Liverpool Airport. From Manchester airport, this requires a train change at one of the central Manchester stations to Liverpool Lime Street, and a bus from Lime Street to the airport, and vice versa.

I've done both recently, I don't like either journey, but interms of time, price, ease, both are pretty much the same.

[Mouser]

Manchester Oxford Road to Liverpool South Parkway direct 51mins
Manchester Piccadilly to Liverpool South Parkway direct 47mins
Liverpool South Parkway for Liverpool Airport.
Arriva "Airlink" Express Coach Service No 700, departs Piccadilly station every hour costing £6.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

FAO jack_essex

The PPRUNE 'Airlines, Airports and Routes' section isn't really the appropriate forum for spotting information & queries, indeed some of the moderators may frown upon it. PPRUNE does offer a forum dedicated to enthusiasts' needs which I believe is called "Spotters' Balcony"; take a look on there.

Specifically for Manchester, I hope that the powers here at PPRUNE will not mind me recommending that you visit ringwayreports.co.uk

That site carries everything you could possibly want to know about spotting at MAN including timetables, logs, where-to-go, unusual visiting aircraft etc. It also has links to sites such as TAS which offers further info of this sort.

Many purists here wish to see this thread reserved purely for data regarding the operations of MAN and the airline companies serving the airport. I'm sure you can appreciate the need for this, as aviation professionals have few forums to discuss matters pertinent to their careers whilst enthusiasts are blessed with many websites which serve their needs. However, many in this industry are enthusiasts too - including myself - so I hope you will enjoy a fantastic day at MAN with the help of the aforementioned websites which are more closely matched to your needs.

Meanwhile, to avoid a sharp rap on the knuckles from the mods and ill-feeling from the regulars, both yourself and I are best advised to avoid discussing spotting matters on the "Airlines, Airports and Routes" forum. It is really quite a taboo!

Good luck with your trip and I hope my pointers take you to the information you require.

All the best. SHED.

[Frosty Hoar]

whats going on?

[Kestrel_909]

Reopened in the past few minutes, apparently.

[Scottie Dog]

Problem caused by B757 with hydraulic problem landing 06R with resultant hot brakes and smoke.
AFS in attendance and passengers remained on board. Fire cover compromised during the emergency but now restored with single runway operations on 06L after approx 15 minutes.
Aircraft towed to stand for passenger disembarkation.
As usual an everyday situation dealt with by the professionals on both side - airline and AFS/airport/ATC. :ok:
(Airline's name withheld for confidentiality from press)

[helen0888]

My dad was on a plane trying to land whilst all this was going on, one of the pilots came onto the overhead speaker saying they weren't allowed to land.

At Manchester they were down to one runway and the aircraft my dad was on was in a circit over liverpool for 30 minutes.

It was a Jet2 plane

[Rudder Pedals]

G-LSAC is the aircraft in question. Diverted in from LBA with a hydraulics failure.

[Capt's Little Helper]

Saw it in PMI 0200Z so it's fixed already. Good work fellas.

[HOVIS]

Glad to be of service.:D :ok:

[johnrizzo2000]

Does it take long to transfer flights in manchester? I will be arriving on EI in T1, with only hand baggage. I have to go to T2 and check-in for another flight. is it easy to get from terminal to terminal? long walk? would i need long?????? any advice appreciated

[gsky]

approx 10 minutes ...5 mins if you rush
but you then have security.. I guess!!!!

[TSR2]

I would leave an absolute minimum of 15 mins from leaving the EI plane to check-in desks in T2.

Leaving baggage reclaim in T1, walk past front of the Information desk and turn left passing the Post Office. Go out of terminal and take any of the three lifts on right hand side to Level 7 (Check this once inside the lift).
Follow signs for T2 which will take you along the Skywalk passing the rail station and the SAS Radisson hotel. If you are lucky, the travelators will be working but don't bank on it. You may enter T2 at arrivals level in which case you will need to go up one floor to the main check-in hall. There are a few check-in desks on the arrivals level but these seem to be mainly charter.

Hope this helps.

[johnrizzo2000]

Thanks guys. helps a lot! I seem to be visiting nearly every UK airport these days! Last time i non-reved, i got a seat from BHX, time before BRS and the time before that it was LGW!

[Scottie Dog]

With due respect to TSR2, I think that his times might be slightly on the optimistic.

On the basis that EI normally use a stand towards the end of Pier B, then allowing for a small delay at passport/immigration - yes, I know you are coming in from Dublin and therefore passports are not required but it is still technically an international arrival - you may well have used up 10 minutes before you come out into the arrivals area at T1.

Rather than going towards the information desk can I suggest that you exit via the doors to the right of WH Smith (their shop is on the left as you come out of the customs area) and then walk to the right and use the escalator that leads direct up to the Skywalk. As TSR2 says, follow the signes for The Station and then (staying on the same level) follw signs for Terminal 2 and the Radission hotel.

The Skywalk actually enters Terminal 2 at the checkin Hall level. If you are travelling with CO (??) then their checkin is usually towards the far end of the hall.

All in all I would suggest 20-25 minutes for the transfer - assuming that you are a normal fit and healthy person. Enjoy your 'flying' visit to Manchester.

Scottie Dog

[johnrizzo2000]

I checked the Manchester loads a few days ago, and there was seats, but they seem to be gone! There doesnt seem to be any seats with CO from the UK or IRL! I will try Glasgow or my home airport, and I will jnust check the loads over the next few days!

[jay_hl]

Just a quick questions guys and gals,

Got a friend flying on this mornings Flyjet to Sharm-El-Sheik and is currently delayed. Can anyone let me know what the problem/plan is with a rough delay time.

Cheers

[TSR2]

According to Manchester Airport website, this flight will operate approx. 25 hours late. Departure time should be about 10am tomorrow morning.

No idea what the reason is.

[aeulad]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but I see Emirates are upgrading their evening flight to a 77W, lots of capacity between MAN and the Gulf coming for the winter!

Regards

Mike

[Vuelo]

Anyone got any news on the planned EZY routes to Milan and Switzerland?

[jay_hl]

Folks,

Can anyone who works for Manchester Airport as a ground operations controller (ie ops vehicle (not to sure of the exact title)) give me a PM please.

Thanks

Jay

[Rudder Pedals]

Can anyone who works for Manchester Airport as a ground operations controller (ie ops vehicle (not to sure of the exact title)) give me a PM please.
Sorry if I disappoint you here, but you've got no chance of getting the job if you're not already on the ladder....

[NEastMidlands]

Does anyone know if a First Choice B767 had a bump at Manchester on Tuesday 25th?

[Momentary Lapse]

T1 Arrivals that are either GB domestic, or from N or S Ireland, will be bussed to the new arrivals point at T1, thus avoiding Immigration, but still passing the Police check point (unless GB domestic).

It's a very neat solution there with glass corridors and clever doors, and a smart new reclaim hall.

Allow a bit longer for the bussing though.

This new area is probably the best bit of T1 now.

Just wait till they move T1 security upstairs for departures. Watch the queues at the lifts when the escalators break down. My how we'll laugh. When will MA ever fully understand and embrace the concept of customer service?

[initial]

Does that mean no more Garfunkels when security moves? or is that moving too?

[Momentary Lapse]

AFAIK Garfunkels and Lancaster will go to be replaced by the security area with a queue area.

I doubt they'll be replaced landside. It seems the desire is to get as much retail and catering airside as possible because that makes more money than being landside.

[rkenyon]

Just wait till they move T1 security upstairs for departures. Watch the queues at the lifts when the escalators break down. My how we'll laugh. When will MA ever fully understand and embrace the concept of customer service?

It's not exactly a huge climb if the the escalators break... must be only about 20 stairs.

Cheers,
Rick

[EGCN]

NIGHT flights by noisy Jumbo jets are to be banned by Manchester Airport.

Bosses at the rapidly-expanding airport want to bring in an 11pm - 6.30am blanket ban on the noisiest Jumbos from next year.

Newer, quieter Jumbos will also face severe nightime restrictions. And airport bosses say the noise limit for planes allowed to fly at night will be reduced to one of the lowest at any British airport.

[initial]

It's not exactly a huge climb if the the escalators break... must be only about 20 stairs.
Cheers,
Rick

The stairs were taken out when the area was last remodelled

[rkenyon]

The stairs were taken out when the area was last remodelled

I was thinking more of using the 'stalled' escalator rather than another set of stairs. I can see the problem when they decide to repair the escalator at 9am in July though :)

Cheers,
Rick

[chiglet]

Soooo...you then turn left, walk to T3.....up [about] 20 stairs :E turn right and trundle through the Food Court...and end up at the top of the escalator. Total distance....350 metres [ish]? :( Or you could take the lift :ok:
watp,iktch

[rkenyon]

Soooo...you then turn left, walk to T3.....up [about] 20 stairs :E turn right and trundle through the Food Court...and end up at the top of the escalator. Total distance....350 metres [ish]? :( Or you could take the lift :ok:
watp,iktch

Or walk up the non-working escalator....

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

NIGHT flights by noisy Jumbo jets are to be banned by Manchester Airport.

Bosses at the rapidly-expanding airport want to bring in an 11pm - 6.30am blanket ban on the noisiest Jumbos from next year.

Newer, quieter Jumbos will also face severe nightime restrictions. And airport bosses say the noise limit for planes allowed to fly at night will be reduced to one of the lowest at any British airport.



Can't think of any scheduled 747 flights into MAN between these times anyway. The only a/c which come in/go out after these times are heavily delayed or the odd charter I reckon.

[TURIN]

Why only "Jumbo Jets"?

Surely if it's above a certain noise level then size should not matter.:confused:

Methinks the poster has misread something.

[initial]

BACON increasing MXP to three daily weekdays for winter season

[airhumberside]

Jet 2 to Bergamo is to go on sale tomorrow. Flights start from winter timetable on a daily basis

[Momentary Lapse]

Two things:

1 under H&S rules you can't walk up or down a stalled escalator because the "steps" change height at the top and bottom, and in the middle are too high to be called steps anyway. And remember those passengers having to carry "wheely" carry-on bags up stairs instead of pulling them and standing still on a moving escalator.

2 the night flights thing is a con. The real motive is not "we want to be a good neighbour" but could be "we can't/won't afford to staff the place at night for just a few flights". Or maybe they're softening up the neighbours to ease the ride to get the masterplan adopted to concrete over more of Cheshire and demolish the B&Q oops I mean cargo centre. Alternatively, under their noise points scheme, one banned noisy flight could mean up to 16 permitted quiet ones so it's a con to get more "quiet" flights. Either way, you won't get the truth out of MA's ministry of propaganda.

[rkenyon]

1 under H&S rules you can't walk up or down a stalled escalator because the "steps" change height at the top and bottom, and in the middle are too high to be called steps anyway. And remember those passengers having to carry "wheely" carry-on bags up stairs instead of pulling them and standing still on a moving escalator.


Yeah, right. Maybe H&S rules, but have you ever seen the Tube escalators when they break down? Doesn't seem to stop people walking. As for wheely carry-ons, if they're too heavy to walk up the stairs with, then they shouldn't be hand luggage anyway.

Cheers,
Rick

[initial]

According to a thread on Airliners.net AA is dropping MAN - BOS and CDG - BOS as well as the already announced SNN - BOS.

Reason given is that whilst route is profitable aircraft can be better used elsewhere.

The seasonal service was due to recommence on April 10th next year, however flights are no longer bookable, anyone have any additional info?

If Jet 2 have any transatlantic plans might be a good starter route for them?? or GSM?

On a seperate topic Norwiegen to Bergen not bookable after October. Is this being dropped or was it always going to be Summer only?

[MANFlyer]

SQ dropping the 2 weekly 744's via ZRH and going to just 5 x weekly direct 772ER from January.

[aeulad]

They must be feeling the pinch from the likes of EK, EY and QR. I am a little surprised though, bearing in mind MH's departure from MAN.

Regards

Mike

[MANFlyer]

It's mainly to do with lack of aircraft. They are going to have problems from December onwards, with the delay of the A380 and the 744's that have either been sold or are due for maintenance checks.

SQ345/6 has been a cash drain for a while, mainly due to the costs of having to have a crew who board in ZRH, fly to MAN and back to ZRH and have another day off. Nice work if you can get it.

Loads on 345/6 were generally poor ex-MAN, and with the 744 fleet due to be cut further it was only a matter of time.

[Momentary Lapse]

Yeah, right. Maybe H&S rules, but have you ever seen the Tube escalators when they break down? Doesn't seem to stop people walking. As for wheely carry-ons, if they're too heavy to walk up the stairs with, then they shouldn't be hand luggage anyway.
Cheers,
Rick

I agree that people do use escalators as stairs, but the Tube was of course built long before the current building regulations, that define what "stairs" are, came into force.

Wheely carry-on luggage could be light enough to be hand luggage, but perhaps the passenger isn't able to carry it (elderly, disabled etc.) And have you ever seen how fast/heavy a small suitcase can be at the end of its fall from the top of an escalator?

[MancRy]

What about those pax who check the buggy in but then give it to ground staff at the gate! Think your comments through before making them.

[Momentary Lapse]

:confused: What about them? Buggies come into the same category as wheely carry-on bags and thus those who push will have the same problems as those who pull, that problem being the airport operator introducing unnecessary changes of level.

[TURIN]

AAs MAN-BOS was their most profitable European route. Strange that it should be dropped. Are sure it's not just seasonal. I'm sure it will be back again next winter 07.

SQs 744 MAN-ZRH-SIN being dropped was announced ages ago. The new Schedule will be a daily 777 possibly a -300ER.

[Le Bob]

AA usually run through to December with Boston, then replace it with 3 times weekly Miami until April.
Jet2 have announced Saily to Bergamo from 29/10

[MANFlyer]

SQs 744 MAN-ZRH-SIN being dropped was announced ages ago. The new Schedule will be a daily 777 possibly a -300ER.

The 744 flights are being dropped and are NOT being replaced. The flight will cease to be daily from January, and the powers that be up here are very sceptical that the 773ER will be seen and MAN any time soon.

[Euroboy39]

If AA does drop BOS-MAN (still havn't seen anything official), then FlyGlobespan might be in a good position to take over the route- AA have already shown demand for a route, which did not offer connections, plus the traffic was mainly leisure based, so GSM would be in a great position to launch the route, alongside Cape Town and Toronto. This is assuming they have the aircraft.

[Vuelo]

Which low cost carrier is rumoured to be starting servics from Manchester to Gdansk? Is it BMI Baby?

[initial]

Which low cost carrier is rumoured to be starting servics from Manchester to Gdansk? Is it BMI Baby?

Not heard anything about this one but it could fit into their winter schedule, but they would struggle to do it in the summertime, with 4 based a/c without dropping a route. My money would be on SkyEurope. They dont operate from Gdansk at the moment, but they didnt operate from SZG before that route started either. Could be another W route, using the Krakow a/c or replace SZG if competition from Thomsonfly gets too great.

[Ametyst]

Could be Centralwings for Gdansk?

[Euroboy39]

Could be Jet2? Where has this rumour appeared from?

It could be SkyEurope, but as they are dropping Krakow from the winter season (this is correct, right?), they would either have to open a base at Gdansk, or W it from Bratislava.....

Which airlines, exactly, are left at MAN now?! They havn't done a very good job of retaining services recently. Some good news to come, maybe....

[initial]

Euroboy39

Krakow not dropped just moved to an evening flight. (still Tue, Thu, Sat). I admit no time for a W on current timings though

[hammerb32]

[QUOTE=TURIN]AAs MAN-BOS was their most profitable European route. Strange that it should be dropped. Are sure it's not just seasonal. I'm sure it will be back again next winter 07.QUOTE]

Turin,

Have you got a source for that ? If it were their most profitable route why was operated with a B757 with no 1st class ?

[Jet A1]

As for SZG, GB will be operating a weekly winter charter service to SZG with the A321 departing on a Sunday....

[TURIN]

[QUOTE=TURIN]AAs MAN-BOS was their most profitable European route. Strange that it should be dropped. Are sure it's not just seasonal. I'm sure it will be back again next winter 07.QUOTE]
Turin,
Have you got a source for that ? If it were their most profitable route why was operated with a B757 with no 1st class ?
I can only assume that there were not enough passengers to fill anything bigger, IE B767. Bit silly to fly a 767 half empty when you can fill a 757. Also, how many airlines do you know that operate transatlantic flights from MAN with a 1st class cabin?

[ManchesterMan]

Just looked on the AA web site and it shows
Miami - Manchester in the system over the
winter period all the way to April 8th.
The Boston - Manchester shows all the way
to December 12th.

Is everyone hyper-ventilating over nothing!

This seems to have been the pattern for AA
these last few years.........

Who started this rumour off anyway?

MM

[Vuelo]

Any news on EasyJet slot applications for some Swiss services?

[ETOPS]

Coming thru' MAN this morning I was told for the hundredth time that "BMI are pulling off the LHR route" :confused:

As they are still selling seats well into December I don't actually believe this rumour. Could someone in the know kill it or suggest a plausible explanation (Baby taking over?) Ta :ok:

[initial]

5* a week GB airways winter scheduled service to SZG showing on BA timetable.

[Tisme]

Coming thru' MAN this morning I was told for the hundredth time that "BMI are pulling off the LHR route" :confused:

As they are still selling seats well into December I don't actually believe this rumour. Could someone in the know kill it or suggest a plausible explanation (Baby taking over?) Ta :ok:

As far as I am aware that is just one big rumour

[Egerton Flyer]

Just got this in my e-mail, as they say "from the horses mouth."
Hello all,
I have received a mail from American Airlines after i queried the
rumoured ceasation of the BOS-MAN service that i am booked on in
November. The official reply is:
"The end date for the seasonal service between Boston and Manchester
will be Dec 14, 2006. The restart date will be in the beginning of
April 2007".:D
Should put an end to that one.
Gaz......

[jongeman]

Just because flights don't get immediately loaded onto reservation systems, mass hysteria ensues!

[FlyZB]

Well said jongeman! I wish people would wait and see before subjecting the rest of us to mass panick! MAN may not be going through its finest hour at the minute but that doesn't mean every single airline is going to be dropping routes! There was sheer panic on another websites forum not long ago because LS hadn't released MAN - LGW for the winter. 2 days later it was released! Have more faith guys, patience is a virtue... :)

[Adola69]

:\
I've heard that most if not all the slot requests for any Easyjet operation at Man this winter, whether they be Swiss originating, Italian or other, have all been handed back.
The Air China proposed Cargo service has also bitten the dust.
Doom, doom and more doom.
Now what was that about re-vamping the retail outlets, - you know the places where you can buy things and then have to leave them behind! Don't think that'll really catch on now, do you??
Adola.:ugh: