LUTON - 2

[PPRuNe Pop]

Have fun.....................

[LTNman]

Heads up everyone. We are about to close this thread and one or two of the others which have grown very large.

This will NOT stop you reading them but the nature of the threads is such that old news is not news most of the time. Just use search and read if you need to but carry on on the NEW LUTON - 2 thread,

The big problem with these mega threads is that it is impossible to search out old information using the search engine. Much better to limit these airport threads to around 200 posts.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Well that would be a good idea if it were not for those who insist on posting unnecessary stuff and drivel AND......use the thread as a chat line. That is very irritating for us mods who have to have eyes everywhere - if you get my drift.

And what about bandwidth?

Let us start getting useful meaningful posts going and we will all be surprised how easy it is to enjoy.

PPP

[LGS6753]

2006 events:

Start of M1 link road construction.
Planning application submitted for Phase 1 of Project 2030.
Late realisation by Britannia (Thomsonf:mad: )that their home base has potential.
Massive growth in flights to South-Eastern Europe.
20% increase in easyJet based fleet.
10 million passenger milestone passed.
First scheduled flights outside Europe.

2007 events:

75 scheduled service destinations?
Trans-Atlantic services by Silverjet?
Peak period slot restrictions?
Planning enquiry into Phase 1 Project 2030.
What else?

[Buster the Bear]

Apparently, lots more cargo flights are on the agenda once the runway is permanently open at night?

Western airspace extension opened today and as runway 08 has been in use, so has the new airspace :) !

[Powerjet1]

In the local rag (Herald & Post),there is an article about Silverjet but also quoting Fly First commercial director, Keith Campbell saying "We won't be changing our plans and we're very much on track to launch in 2006. It's still going to be Luton''.

Fly First seem to be aiming for the higher spending execs and plan to lease two 757s carrying 48 pax in full flat beds, limo/heli transfers etc. EOS copy ?.

[Pain in the R's]

Lets not get carried away about short term expansion. The fact is that the airports policy not to spend money on new facilities until the need is there has caught them out big time.

Phase 1 planning applications should have gone in 2 or 3 years ago. With planning permission gained they could have picked their moment to actually start the work which would no doubt have been last winter.

The fact is that there are no spare stands this year and there won’t be any spare stands next year if the application results in a public enquiry. How many potential new nights stoppers will Luton loose because of a lack of stands? There is also still no sign of the airport getting to grips with traffic congestion at peak times although £1million was set aside in the 2006 budget. Again this should have been sorted out by now. As for the terminal the introduction of 10 new check-in desks running at a right angle to the existing ones is a panic measure because they know that again it will be at least 2 years if not more before the terminal is expanded.

[Buster the Bear]

"If Luton lose the extra potential night stoppers", where will they go instead? Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted? Err...no!

Without the financial muscle of someone like the BAA, Luton will always play 'catch up', especially under the current Concession Agreement? Luton Borough Council plunder the profits, good luck to them for coming up with an intuitive business model which pay handsome rewards to the local community.

[LTNman]

I see that the airport has finally been able to let another empty shop. The shop fitters have started to fit out a Marks and Spencer simply food outlet in the arrivals area which will also front Burger King in the main terminal. One of the empty retail units in the departure lounge has been swallowed up by an expanded Est Restaurant.

I also see a Monarch airbus has found its way into the Harrods hangar.

[Buster the Bear]

Tui FC PA28's have moved to Cranfield due to access to H89 area, not too sure if this is a permanent move? Hotel Romeo has been Luton based for well over 25 years I believe?

Monarch engineering are hopeful that they can pick up some extra work following the hangar fire at Brussels.

[ebenezer]

Hotel Romeo has been Luton based for well over 25 years
Bit of a shame given that even the likes of MAN seem to be able to accommodate a handful of light GA aircraft mixing it with the heavy metal.

The issue is not simply Hangar 89 (which is now leased by easyTech/FLS) but facilitating parking anywhere on the Main Apron when all available space is needed for higher-paying business.

Combined with the fact that Signature will be redeveloping its facilities to create a new-build corporate aviation terminal that will look like a scaled down version of SOU's futeristic terminal building design and that this will effectively remove any possibility of parking in the old Stand 51 area, and the historic prohibition of solo student PPLs at Luton (under the Airport's Conditions of Use and Bylaws), the continued presence of TUI aka BAL F/C at Luton was always going to be doubtful.

The TUI F/C for LGW is based at Redhill and for BHX is based at Wellesbourne Mountford so the F/C for LTN being based at Cranfield shouldn't be too difficult albeit it's less convenient for members who live in or to the south of Luton.

[codpiece face]

I can remember when there was a cessna twin in brits colours a 421 i think for crew transfers, was this actually operated by brits or by another company on their behalf?

[Buster the Bear]

G-BRIT C421 used as a crew ferry during B737-200 days.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0682851/M/

[CAP493]

...good luck to them (Luton Borough Council) for coming up with an intuitive business model which pays handsome rewards to the local community.Er - what 'rewards' are you talking about Buster? Please be specific about anything in the town of Luton that's worthy of note and that is attributed to the vast sums of money leached off from the Concession Agreement. Where exactly has all the money made by the Council from LTN gone???

The Airport is the only 'bright' spot on an otherwise depressing and deprived home-counties landscape. But you're right to point out that unlike BAA which was set up using taxpayers' money and created as a private company via the usual Government 'fudge formula', LTN has to 'pay its way' and so will never be in a position to directly challenge the likes of STN.

As for Luton Borough Council 'rewarding' the residents of Luton, methinks you're overdosing on that honey drink (mead), old chap...

:= ;) :oh:

[Buster the Bear]

Have you visited Bury Park lately? A vast sum of money has been spent tidying the place up.

I wonder what the town would be like without the large and regular cash injection? Whilst not wanting to appear to be political, the incumbent council seems to be floundering under Lib Dem control? The previous Labour regime introduced the concession for its airport, the town then seemed to have more direction? I am not a resident of Luton, so as such are just observations.

Tui Flying Club moving the PA28's to Cranfield is due to non airport based members being unable to gain access air side in order to fly the aircraft. They were once allowed access via H89, but that apparently is no longer the case?

Mead, I should be so lucky, more like fermenting fish!

[gilesdavies]

Probably not much of a surprise, and has been discussed of Airliners.net...

Helvetic look set to discontinue their LTN-ZRH service from the middle of June with the odd few flights in July and August. (Expect these were flights already heavily booked and have honoured these flights.)

From what I have seen the route has been performing very poorly with average loads of of 30-40 passengers.

Helvetics prices are expensive for a LCC and their lead in fares were rarely below 99 Euros with taxes and fuel surcharge to add on top! BA and Swiss' prices were compariable to this and could fly into LHR or LCY for that price.

I feel they personally outpriced themselves to operate into Luton, when Luton is very much a LCC airport!

[Minnie the Moocher]

Changing the subject slightly.

I noticed that the Air Turquoise flight to Reims didn't operate yesterday.

I hear they have been getting some very bad load factors.

So another 'Luton' airline about to go to the wall? Anybody know anything?

Can't be that shocked of course - they sure pick 'em, remember Ciao Fly, Styrian, SWE? - and I've seen virtually no marketing or publicity to support this route.

Little Minnie.

[King Pong]

Zurich is an expensive airport to operate out of which is why Easyjet pulled out of the airport despite good passenger loads. I would have thought that Luton could support at least one full fares airline on a route like this to a major business centre. Is it really the case that full fares passengers would drive past Luton and sit on the M25 in their attempted to get to Heathrow? Maybe a full fares passenger wants the flexibility of a greater frequency and not just two flights a day.

Last week I witnessed a drilling rig taking soil samples close at the side of Signatures hangar near the gatehouse that would explain the talk here of a new Signature terminal. Although it has been a few years since I visited Signatures existing passenger facilities they did look very dated and small compared to what Harrods has to offer. I can’t imagine their new terminal will be as big as Harrods as there is just not the space around stand 51.

Air Turquoise has only been on the Luton route a few weeks so needs time to build up a following.

[LTNman]

Have you visited Bury Park lately? A vast sum of money has been spent tidying the place up.
I wonder what the town would be like without the large and regular cash injection?

Luton’s population is around 200,000, which means with an airport income of around £15 million in passenger fees but excluding rates each citizen should receive £75 of benefit from the airport each year. The truth is actually somewhat different. While the local airport school at Wigmore still has around 8 portocabins as classrooms money is being heaped on the so-called deprived areas of Luton. No signs of portocabins at Denbie school, in fact they have just opened their new sports hall to go with the schools large swimming pool.

Tui Flying Club moving the PA28's to Cranfield is due to non airport based members being unable to gain access air side in order to fly the aircraft. They were once allowed access via H89, but that apparently is no longer the case?

Was it not the case that Britannia’s flying club paid no airport fees or landing charges?

[LTNman]

According to Google map Luton Airport has moved. http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=52.207725,0.169945&spn=0.007574,0.016115

[Bumz_Rush]

dont tell Ryanair....

but on a more serious note, where can I see a set of detailed drawing for the future expansions for the airport, Luton that is....



Bumz

ps my goole shows Luton correctly, perhaps the earth did move for me....

[Buster the Bear]

www.ltn.aero then try looking for 2030?

[PPRuNe Pop]

HEADS UP!

There is a programme on ITV1 at 1930 this evening - or least a short one but it may be informative. Who knows.

PPP

[LGS6753]

PPop,

There was a series last year, that was only shown on Anglia TV. Is this new, or a repeat? And will it be shown in all TV regions?

Since the purpose of Anglia TV is to fill the gaps between the adverts, I'm not expecting a high-quality offering....

[Powerjet1]

Believe it is a new series but I think it is only being shown on London.

[King Pong]

The series made last year was only shown on London ITV and Sky Travel and never made it to Anglia or the regions. This also seems to be on London only although London ITV is available to all via Sky. They were making a second series so I guess this it is.

[LTNman]

New airport minutes at http://www.llacc.com/CurrentMeeting.asp which included the following statement about the new check-in desks that were finished last month.

A reference was made to the extra check in desks that are to be constructed at the north end of the terminal building; this will facilitate new technology, accommodate the introduction of home check in facilities and incorporate a quick baggage drop off. Three double checking desks positioned throughout desks 1-60 are to be used as ticketing desks not check in desks.

[Buster the Bear]

I take it that with the night time runway closure all the Arsenil charters will use 'other' airports for ferrying their thousands of fans to the Champions League final in Paris?

Edit: I have just found this, most Arsenil supporters must be swimming the channel?

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/paris.airports.news/championsleague.html

[LGS6753]

I heard a rumour that, now that Luton Airport is run by a Spanish company, they have banned any charters carrying supporters of teams playing Spanish opponents.:}

There does appear to be one Jet2 flight to Paris.
It seems unfortunate that most supporters are having to either swim, or fly from that field in deepest Essex. Wet feet or sheer embarrassment, what a choice!!

[Sanjo]

on a slightly different topic...

what is LTN airport going to do about those massive queues for passport control when flying into LTN??? It is alright to have a larger departures area so you can generate more revenue from it, build a few more gates to increase your capacity, but then happens when these people have to wait for 30 minutes because there are only 2 guys on passport control?

There is a good side in this, as you don’t have to wait too long for your luggage :rolleyes: , but this 30 minutes queue is the last thing you want after a flight!!

Shocking!!!

[Pain in the R's]

Sanjo

Nothing to do with the airport but with the government who control staff numbers

[Buster the Bear]

I see that Arann have ditched Angers for Nantes (from Manchester and Cork), what are Arann marketing folk on?

Liege ditched
Angers ditched
Nantes instead of Angers

If I am confused, how about their prospective punters, what do they make of any Arann press release?

[CAP493]

I take it that with the night time runway closure all the Arsenil charters will use 'other' airports for ferrying their thousands of fans to the Champions League final in Paris?
Only a couple of additional flights operated ex. LTN including the Arsenal team, but there were several from STN where the runway also closes overnight and where STAL also said it wouldn't delay the closure if any flights were running late. So where had you in mind Buster? London/Southend maybe...??
:ugh:
BTW, busiest day for Luton's runway movements this year was last week = 350. By comparison, STN's record so far = 670.
:ok:

[vintage ATCO]

378 yesterday although not sure how many helicopters that may include. :eek:

[ebenezer]

378 (Luton movements) yesterday
Wow! That's an average of 1 runway movement every 2.8 minutes over the 18-hour period that the runway's currently open. And it's still only mid-May...
:D :D :D

[Buster the Bear]

I understand that 50% of these movements were from a Cherokee in the circuit! :O

Seriously, that is amazing, bets on reaching 400 in one day, July?

[Musket90]

STN did record 677 movements on Thurs thanks to extra football charters in early morning. The reduced runway distance operation during resurfacing work seems to be paying dividends. Hope both LTN and STN benefit from England world cup flights next month. Wonder if any more movement records will be broken.

[Buster the Bear]

I expected to see hoards of Watford fans take to skies from Luton this morning en-route to Cardiff, I guess they must have taken the mini bus instead! :}

[Powerjet1]

Following the public consultation, the final Masterplan document was due to be published this month. With only a week to go in May, has anyone heard of an impending news conference to be given by the airport on the subject?. There was certainly considerable national publicity when the draft Masterplan was made public last october. Also, anyone know if there has been any movement on the submission of a Planning App for Part One of the redevelopment, ie for the additional stands etc. In the draft MP, it was talked up that Part One would be completed by the end of 2007. Looks highly unlikely.

[King Pong]

Even at the first hurdle dates are being missed. New terminal and runway by 2012? Someone is having a laugh. Phase one complete by 2007? In yer dreams. With daily grid lock at peak times on the airports roads and drop off area there seems to be no hurry in doing anything about it.

[Buster the Bear]

'Close to 400 movements a day'. This has got me thinking......the TMA must then be able to cope with at times, a movement every 2 minutes in and out of Luton?

NATS must be doing a fine job considering the inherent lack of airspace and the proximity of Luton to Stansted and Heathrow?

[forest]

So the new easyjet/h89 developments are getting going then!
The visuals that area2 have put up on their temporary portacabins show how it will look.
It does't look to bad! but the orange tone in the graphics is a bit like a faded old 737 colour, wonder if it will be sunglasses ahoy???:cool:
Dont know what the movement figure were for today, but boy did it look busy!! helicopters everywhere aswel!!(not just the coppers)
heyho, a fun summer ahead!

[Pain in the R's]

Episode 2 of the new series London Luton Airport tonight which can also be seen on Sky channel 993 at 7:30 for those without normal access to ITV London. I thought the first episode was actually quite informative about airport operations.

[forest]

372 movements yesterday then!!! :D to ATC
And i dont think any were a cherokee in the circuit judging by the weather, it was horrid!!!

[LTNman]

ATM’s

6450 up 8.9%
Year on year 77334 up 13.7%

Passengers

779,173 up 8.6%
Year on year 9,244,879 up 14%

An 8.6% increase for August would mean for the first time that over 1,000,000 passengers passing through Luton in a calendar month

[Powerjet1]

Good figures and as you say, 1m pax in August is looking a definate possibility.

Noticed in the local rag, the contract for the new link road from the M1 into the airport(East Luton Corridor) was awarded yesterday to the 'chosen' construction company, and that work will start on Monday19 June. Completion March 2008.

[LTNman]

Powerjet1

Sixteen million pounds is the value of the contract signed today by construction company Birse Civils Ltd to build the much needed direct road link between junction 10A of the M1 motorway and London Luton Airport.
Luton is expected to see the new road known as the East Luton Corridor completed by the early part of 2008. Work is planned to start on Monday June 19 following today's handover of the construction contract by Baroness Andrews, planning minister in the newly formed Department for Communities and Local Government.
Steve Withers, regional managing director of Birse said: "The East Luton corridor project is an exciting opportunity and a substantial development to the company's business in this part of the region.
"We very much look forward to starting work on June 19 and working with Luton Council, assisting them in delivering the scheme which goes a long way to fulfilling their transport and regeneration aims for the future."
Although the Befordshire town has been involved in many major projects in recent years, this said to be by far the biggest. It is part of a massive investment programme set to transform the area over the next five years.
Andy Strange, an executive member of Luton Council, with special responsibility for transport stated: "We are delighted to announce the letting of this contract to Birse, which was awarded against stiff competition following a stringent tendering process.
"The East Luton Corridor will ease local traffic congestion and aid the regeneration of the town."
Other projects in a £4bn regeneration by 2012 include the Butterfield Business and Technology Park, plus major developments at the former Vauxhall car plant and in the town centre.
They also include the Translink rapid transport system, the proposed expansion of the airport and the widening of the M1.

[Buster the Bear]

I guess that re-naming Luton after its mega famous son....London Buster the Bear.... is no longer an option!

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/notal32006naming%20of%20aerodromes.pdf

[Superpilot]

Anyone here travel from Central London (or North, East, South, West for that matter) into Luton Airport daily?

I'm thinking about a job based inside the airport but don't know what to expect in terms of journey times, walk/bus from station to airport. Is it doable on a daily basis? Costs?

I ask on this forum because it's the one place where I'm most likely to find people who actually work at Luton Airport.

[James 1077]

I drive from North-East London (Woodford) into Luton every day. Get on the M25 - through the Enfield roadworks, up the A1M and in through Wheathamstead.

Total time door to door is between 1 1/4 hours and 1 1/2 hours normally (about 40 miles). Occasionally (but rarely) longer if there is an accident and sometimes shorter (best time since the roadworks went in is 55 minutes).

All of this is through rush hour traffic.

Hope this is useful.

James

[LTNman]

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/pages/destinations/network-map/default.aspx By train an average daytime service of 7 trains an hour (1 non stop, 4 fast and 2 slow. A total of 29 London stations have a direct service to Luton Airport Parkway more than any other London Airport. From there a free shuttle bus takes passengers to the terminal and also stops at the hotels on request. Staff working at the airport regardless of which company they work for have been eligible to a rail discount. Not sure if this will continue as the train operating company has just changed.

[LTNman]

Air Turquoise, who will be moving its operations from Reims to Vatry International Airport, which is 65km to the southwest.

Air Turquoise currently offers a daily service to Luton and has said that its schedule will remain unchanged except for minor adjustments; it expects to begin fights from Vatry in October

[D7666]

[QUOTE=LTNman]
>>> Sixteen million pounds is the value of the contract ..... to build the much needed direct road link between junction 10A of the M1 motorway and London Luton Airport.


Ummm ... according to the press release on the gov.uk official DCLG website the contract is £22m


>>> Other projects in a £4bn regeneration

The way I read

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1002882&PressNoticeID=2161

the entire funding for everything around Luton was £40m unless there has been some selective quoting for political purposes (what, gov.uk do that ????)

--
Nick

[CAP493]

Andy Strange, an executive member of Luton Borough Council, with special responsibility for transport stated: "...The East Luton Corridor will ease local traffic congestion and aid the regeneration of the town."
He's kidding of course?? Firstly, there's absolutely no improvement to LTN's road access from/to the A505 and A1(M) to the east - at least not in the medium-term; and as for regenerating the town of Luton, it'll take slightly more than £40M over two years to reverse decades of decline, degradation and Council disinterest. Oh, and by the way, perhaps Mr Strange could explain exactly what happened to the (surprisingly) sensible proposal to include a fly-over junction at the M1's Junction 10A - that's allegedly, been binned...??

Luton Borough Council's transport & regeneration plan? Don't make me :D :D :hmm: :rolleyes:

[Buster the Bear]

http://195.74.109.26:2029/news/luton/2006/may/28/huge%20makeover%20set%20to%20transform%20the%20areas%20roads .lpf

[LTNman]

perhaps Mr Strange could explain exactly what happened to the (surprisingly) sensible proposal to include a fly-over junction at the M1's Junction 10A - that's allegedly, been binned...??

I was told around a year ago by an ELC planner that the final plans that had been approved for the M1 widening also showed junction 10A on them. Because of this for legal reasons no work can be carried out on the roundabout as part of the East Luton Corridor project until the M1 project had been finished. Despite this as part of the planning permission for the Vauxhall development the developer of Vauxhall must also pay for the roundabout to be replaced when work is permitted. The last I heard traffic lights were a possibility although nothing is set in stone.

[bacardi walla]

Does anyone know the outcome of Signatures' BIG announcement that was scheduled to be made on Friday ?

[LTNman]

Just a guess but I bet I am not far out on this one. Seeing that they are losing market share to Harrods they have finally woken up to the fact that they need to spend money on their passenger handling facilities and that they are going to build a new executive terminal at the side of their old hangar.:D

[bacardi walla]

That's old news about the terminal, hardly warrants a big announcement. Any other takers :ugh:

[LTNman]

It might be old news here but it hasn’t been announced officially yet. No planning applications have been submitted yet so it won’t happen straight away.

[King Pong]

Old info from the airports website:

We intend to submit a planning application for Project 2030 – Phase 1
in early 2006, in line with proposals we published in our Development
Brief 2001, that is available on our website www.london-luton.co.uk.
This planning application represents our intention to make best use
of existing capacity. Phase 1 will include the construction of additional
aircraft stands, a terminal extension and associated piers, a multi-storey
and surface car park and extensions to our parallel taxiway. We intend to
complete these works by the end of 2007.

So June is now only a couple of days away and no sign of a planning application. Is it the case that the planners at the airport just can’t squeeze a quart into a pint pot?

Problems include no room for a short term parking at ground level if a new apron is built in the existing short term car park. The only area available in the central area for a multi story car park is the present easyjet HQ site but the site is small and a high level car park could restrict views of the taxiway from the tower.

The closed off area of the mid term car park has had to be brought back into use as there was not enough parking spaces for the bank holiday traffic. This option will disappear once work commences next month on the new airport access road. This car park will get smaller still if and when a full-length parallel taxiway is built at the 08 end.

There is also the problem of too many cars entering the central area at peak times and the reluctance of drivers to use car parks.

So will the airports plans for phase 1 now incorporate some of the ideas for phase 2 like building a reception center by the fire station and also converting the mid term car park to a short term car park. The central area would become a traffic free zone for passengers and meeter and greeters who would use a rapid transit system to get to the terminal which is already part of the phase 2 thinking.

Or is the real problem funding or Luton Council refusing to extend the lease which would make the investment worthwhile ? Clearly something is going wrong and timescales are starting to slip.

[Buster the Bear]

A real aircraft in at tea time this evening (Monday)?

Rumoured to be a 4 engined radial owned by a bullish drinks company staying the night!

[LTNman]

DC6 due in from Nice around 19:00 local (provisional if the rumour is true)

[Buster the Bear]

It arrived, was due to night stop, but as Luton does not have enough 100LL it is positioning up to Coventry soon to re-fuel!

[CAP493]

On Tuesday Housing Minister Baroness Andrews visited Luton and South Bedfordshire. Baroness Andrews witnessed the handover of the £16 million construction contract between Luton Borough Council and contractors Birse Civils Ltd to build the East Luton Corridor. Work is due to start on June 19 and end early in 2008.

Baroness Andrews said: "The Government has now realised that it's losing ground to the Tories under Tony Blair Mk. II (D. Cameron) and so has finally agreed that tax-payers in the area should begin to see some investment being made in the local roads. We sincerely hope this will generate sufficient votes at the next election to ensure that we are re-elected with a workable majority".

:D

...Or is the real problem funding or Luton Council refusing to extend the lease which would make the investment worthwhile?

A 'consolidated' planning application to undertake further development of the existing Airport site is still due to be lodged during June. The plans involved are designed to increase capacity (passengers/aircraft movements) sufficiently to permit further expansion up to circa 2012 when - if further planning permission is forthcoming - the 'new' Luton Airport site is intended to be open for business. Luton Borough Council is however, keen to see all development stay on the existing site or approximately, either within the current boundary or involving expansion primarily within Bedfordshire. To this end, it's minded to consider a re-negotiation to the Concession Agreement enabling a significant extension to be granted. Whilst ACDL would like to see an extension (it should be remembered that the consortium that included the Frankfurt Airport Authority, back in 1999 withdrew from the tendering process because it considered that 30 years, with the level of investment required to make of for the Council's failure to invest sufficiently in LTN, was insufficient to support a viable business plan), its preferred development option is the 'new airport-new site proposal' but at the same time, any extension to the Concession is something that ACDL would welcome.

What's clear to everyone is that the existing site is now woefully inadequate to support any continued even limited growth on an interim basis, without further work being undertaken.

The plan for a new 'Southeast Apron' on the site of an existing car park will require the construction of a multi-storey car park to compensate for the loss of car parking spaces. To achieve this within LTN's 'central terminal area' as it's known would be major civil engineering project, but one that Abertis has evaluated and considers to be logistically viable - since Abertis is a heavy-weight player in the European road construction business, it should know what it's talking about.

:ok: ;)

[Pain in the R's]

Had a look at the arrivals board this morning to see how many IT flights came in at around 6:00 seeing that the runway was closed last night for runway resurfacing work. Well there wasn’t any. Looking at the departure board there were 3 Thomson departures before the board run out of space at 08:15. So has Thomson cut out it’s red eye specials and thus capacity. Also what has happened to First Choice, are they only operating part time from Luton this year and are Monarch only operating Scheduled services now from Luton as there were no Mon flight numbers on the board. Also what has happened to the foreign IT airlines that used to operate into Luton? I can’t remember seeing any since the start of the summer season.

[King Pong]

The plan for a new 'Southeast Apron' on the site of an existing car park will require the construction of a multi-storey car park to compensate for the loss of car parking spaces. To achieve this within LTN's 'central terminal area' as it's known would be major civil engineering project,

The problem is that the airport has spectacularly got their timings wrong and has been caught out by rapid expansion over the last 2 years. This planning application should have been put in two years ago and completed for the start of this summer season. The airport now finds itself in a position where there are no spare stands for night stoppers nor will there be for the next 2 years so in effect has to turn business away. Realistically work would not start until 2007 so 2008 is now looking more likely as a completion date or 2009 if there is a public enquiry.:eek:

Luton Borough Council is however, keen to see all development stay on the existing site or approximately, either within the current boundary or involving expansion primarily within Bedfordshire.

That means Wigmore Park which won’t go down well with the residents as the park was built as a noise buffer. So does this mean that the council are prepared to sacrifice the residents of Wigmore and remove that buffer so that the town’s ethnic minorities who have considerable political clout via their councillors are guaranteed extra funding for their deprived areas of town

[Pain in the R's]

So where are all the cars going to park when this work starts? Logic would dictate that the multi-storey car park should be built first before the new apron is started but by building the car park first would delay even further the construction of a new apron. If you think the traffic is bad now just wait until they start expanding the terminal and changing the road layouts.

[Daft bat]

I have noticed last month that about 40 core/soil samples have been taken from a large field outside the airport perimeter but butt's up against the boundary. This field is to the east of the fire training ground and a runs parrell to the north of 26 landing light stantions.
Anybody know if this is an airport project and if so what are they planning?

[saggst]

So has Thomson cut out it’s red eye specials and thus capacity. Also what has happened to First Choice, are they only operating part time from Luton this year and are Monarch only operating Scheduled services now from Luton as there were no Mon flight numbers on the board. Also what has happened to the foreign IT airlines that used to operate into Luton? I can’t remember seeing any since the start of the summer season.

The red-eye specials all start at the end of june / begining of july once the airport is 24h again

as for foreign IT they start operating at the end of june again i think that there is only Spainair and Sunexpress

rgds

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

In answer to earlier questions:

- ThompsonFly are already operating some "red eye's" - just none on a Monday night/Tuesday morning.

- The First Choice aircraft is based full time and it too is operating a small number of "red eye's". The aircraft operates a "W" pattern into other airports on Monday and Thursday.

- Monarch - yes, the vast majority is now scheduled flights but there are a few charters .. a couple of Larnaca's on Wednesday and a Zante on Thursday

- Foreign charters - I second what saggst posted, although some of the Turkey bound flights are being operated by Thomas Cook.

[CAP493]

So does this mean that the Council are prepared to sacrifice the residents of Wigmore and remove that buffer so that the town’s ethnic minorities who have considerable political clout via their councillors are guaranteed extra funding for their deprived areas of town...??

The Council is just scared shi**ess at the prospect of ACDL successfully constructing a multi-million pound new airport with a 3000 metre runway, outside the LBC sphere of influence such that ultimately, ACDL might no longer have any use for the airport that LBC owns.

Compare the 'old' Liverpool Airport with the 'new' Liverpool Airport and imagine a county and unitary boundary dividing the two, with different operators owning each part...

If LBC ever lost its 'milking cow' Luton would become even more run down and destitute looking than it currently looks!!

:mad:

[forest]

Ref the field to the east of the fire ground.
I was told that the machine was a huge vibrating seismology (spellcheck!) thing checking for unexploded bombs!!!,
Would have to be done before Century Park got under way.
Dont know Luton history well enough to quote munitions and the war!
But:- There are now a few big orange flags on posts scattered in the field!
Hope no birds land heavy or any rabbits are to heavy!!!:ooh:

[22/04]

Plus the Friday Mahon (7056), I think.

I guess lots of IT/charter pax travels on the scheds. Can't imagine that A300 on Saturdays is all scheduled pax.

[LTNman]

Ref the field to the east of the fire ground.
I was told that the machine was a huge vibrating seismology (spellcheck!) thing checking for unexploded bombs!!!,

There are now a few big orange flags on posts scattered in the field!
Hope no birds land heavy or any rabbits are to heavy!!!:ooh:

Vibrating the ground to check for unexploded bombs would be a novel approach particularly if one went off. If there were even a suspicion that there was unexploded ordnance the runway would be closed. Interesting post all the same about why little orange flags have appeared.

[Buster the Bear]

If LBC ever lost its 'milking cow' Luton would become even more run down and destitute looking than it currently looks!!
:mad:

Come on CAP, that is impossible, the town is a shining example of english suburbia!

LBC is having considerable problems backing the site of a new football ground within the town boundary, let alone coming to grasp with having a major expanding employer (the airport) in the town.

I still maintain that the current political direction of LBC does not bode well for the airport?

Let us not forget CAP, the huge influence that a certain pension guru/accountant and good friend of mine (RIP) had within the Town Hall. I bet his in depth knowledge and foresight has not been replaced? His guidance for the elected officers in the Town Hall was massive, much of the good you see today at the airport had an element of his persuasiveness with the council leaders and decision makers. I wonder if today, the relationship between ACDL and LBC is as good as it could be, or once was with previous operators of the concession?

The airport site (apart from aviation) was a German POW camp during the latter stages of WW2.

[LTNman]

The POW camp was I believe full of Italians and not Germans. In the first photo part of the camp can seen in the foreground opposite the airport entrance.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3962/aerialphoto1946no27bd.jpg

in the second photo the camp can be seen in the middle distance on the other side of Eaton Green Road so just outside the airport.

http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/6435/s6gc.jpg

[vintage ATCO]

That's correct, LTNman. Great photos, got anymore? They didn't bother locking the Italians in who use to wander the streets looking for work! My parents use to live not far away and use to say they were good gardeners!!

[LTNman]

vintage ATCO

1934

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1508/aerialphoto19346zz.jpg

1946

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1376/aerialphoto19461jt.jpg

1960

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9093/aerialphoto19608rx.jpg

around 1960

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1911/airview19501960cliffminney3we.jpg

[CAP493]

Fascinating pics, LTNman ~ thanks!

Perhaps the most telling aspect (apart from the obvious historic interest) is what these photographs tell you about Luton Council's attitude towards its Airport: over a 27-year period (1934 to about 1961) the Airport itself appears to have had virtually no development (buildings + control tower excepted) and in the last pic still sported state-of-the-art grass runways i.e. well into the jet age!!!

No wonder that until recently, the place has been in many ways, so far behind the drag curve.

I've no doubt that what Buster says about a certain individual who is sadly, no longer with us, is 100% true. Unfortunmately, the pitifully short-sighted inward-looking element remains inside the Town Hall (and probably still wonders why a grass runway isn't perfectly adequate for LTN...)

:hmm:

[22/04]

In the c.1960 pic, it is quite clear where today's MON engineering hangars are! How little things change!

[LTNman]

The left hand hangar in the 1934 shot remains relatively unchanged today apart from a blue skin and can be seen here http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0630774/L/ sitting between the two Monarch hangars on the extreme right of the photo. A 72 year old hangar at a major airport must be one of the UK's oldest I would have throught. The hangar today is called hangar 9.

[codpiece face]

You can also see how monarchs hangars 7&8 where seperate and different sizes and then in the later photo the hangar 8 side has been extended back and probally joined together inside.

These are great photos, have to say the lie of the land does not look as bad as it is now with more slopes ramps and walls than any other airport i know.

[vintage ATCO]

Perhaps the most telling aspect (apart from the obvious historic interest) is what these photographs tell you about Luton Council's attitude towards its Airport: over a 27-year period (1934 to about 1961) the Airport itself appears to have had virtually no development (buildings + control tower excepted) and in the last pic still sported state-of-the-art grass runways i.e. well into the jet age!!!

Very unfair. Package holidays didn't get going until the 60s and although there was some schedule services (Derby Airways to Jersey in the summer mainly) Luton during this period was a manufactuer's airfield (Hunting Percival) so what was there to develop for? The runway was built for the Jet Provosts.

When package holidays did kick off Luton was there at the forefront with Euravia and Autair. The runway was adequate so they just built a wooden terminal building (building 50). A thriving flying club was going at this time and the grass runways ideal.

In the 1960 photo you can just make out the tail of the Bristol Freighter (bottom left) that use to fly new Vauxhall cars to Ireland regularly.

[King Pong]

In the 1960 photo you can just make out the tail of the Bristol Freighter (bottom left) that use to fly new Vauxhall cars to Ireland regularly.

The body of the aircraft in front of the tail looks too thin to be a Bristol Freighter. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0950081/L/ but then I am often wrong about these things. There appears to be a DH Mosquito on view in the 1946 photo

[ebenezer]

Originally Posted by vintage ATCO

Very unfair. Luton during this period was a manufactuer's airfield.

Doesn't this underline the point? Luton was opened pre-war as a civil airport, but after the War, as VA says it became primarily a manufacturer's site with the local council doing absolutely nothing. Compare this with say, Cardiff (Pengham Moors being replaced by Rhoose, now Cardiff/Wales, in 1954), Bristol (Whitchurch being replaced by Lulsgate, now Bristol Intl, in 1957) and Derby (Burnaston being replaced by East Midlands in 1965) and it's clear that there was very little forward-planning or enterprise coming from the council.

The fact that their idea of a 'modern' terminal building in the early sixties was a wooden shack again illustrates this lack of interest, planning and understanding.

:{

[airhumberside]

Aer Arann have announced a new 4xWeekly Newquay service from July

Will RE base an aircraft at LTN this summer?

[ebenezer]

Will RE base an aircraft at LTN this summer?

Presumably, this is intended to fill the 'gap' caused by Ryanair's withdrawal from the STN/Newquay route. It was certainly Aer Arran's intention to establish a base at LTN originally, with x 2 aircraft night-stopping.

With a record movements day reaching 380 recently, and an all-time record week of 2506 movements, it looks almost certain that LTN will break the 400 movements a day barrier in either June, July and/or September ~ particularly as the full summer programme of charter flights has not yet kicked in.

A large number of extra corporate flights are also expected because of Farnborough's limited availability during Farnborough 'week'.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

There already is a based ATR72 .... not that it is doing much.

The based aircraft arrived when the Lorient flights started but those only depart mid afternoon and are not 7 days a week. The aircraft sits doing nothing most of the time although it has flown a few sub-charters (mostly for Eastern) and covered for other RE ATR's that have gone sick.

[LTNman]

Aer Arann
CABIN CREW - LONDON LUTON This is an ongoing vacancy
LONDON LUTON
£NOT DISCLOSED
Cabin Crew - London Luton

We are delighted to announce the opening of Aer Arann’s fifth and newest base at London Luton. Our soon to be busy Lodon Luton base willoperate two French routes, one Belgian route, two Irish routes and one Isle of Man route. (I think they need a spell checker)

[CAP493]

We are delighted to announce the opening of Aer Arann’s fifth and newest base at London Luton. Our soon to be busy London Luton base...

Excellent news if it all goes well. Mind you, the 7.15am to 8.15am period weekdays - with the additional (currently) uncoordinated corporate flights - must soon reach the declared 32/60 runway movement rate which means that there won't be any runway slots available at that time, for Aer Arran or any other airline operator.

That'd be a first for Luton!

:D :ok:

[Buster the Bear]

The Luton airport site was a camp containing German POW's, it was called Camp 270.

Newquay, how about a bear on a surf board! The Arann operates a 'W' departing at 0715, getting back in the afternoon.

[LTNman]

The Luton airport site was a camp containing German POW's, it was called Camp 270.
.

Well I have pulled out my copy of The Stopsley Book, which is a detailed history of the area and there is no mention of a POW camp inside the airport. The ones listed include 14 Nissan huts on the west side of the drive leading to Putteridge Bury House, the one by the airport entrance which was the biggest, and one each for Lilley and Breachwood Green.

Buster where did you get your information from? Was you a prisoner? I would have thought by now they would have let you out!

[Powerjet1]

Newquay, how about a bear on a surf board! The Arann operates a 'W' departing at 0715, getting back in the afternoon.
Only on a Sunday. On Monday, Thursday & Friday, flight departs NQY at 0910, arriving LTN at 1040.
This route could do well serving NW London and the M1 corridor and surrounding areas.

[LTNman]

Anyone know how the runway resurfacing work is progressing? I noticed this morning that activity was concentrating on an area half way between the taxiway entry point for 08 and the 08 turning circle. If work started at the 26 end then the project could be finished for June 30th which was meant to be the end of phase 1. Phase 1 being a 4 month project with phase 2 starting October 1 until November 30th.

I see that a temporary camera on a long pole has been strapped to the lamp post close to the bus stop outside the Holiday Inn Express hotel. No doubt this will record the facial expressions of angry passengers as they queue to get into the airport at busy periods.

[CAP493]

Anyone know how the runway resurfacing work is progressing?

Nicely ahead of schedule; the runway will be H24 again from 01 July until 30 September, with Cat. 3 ILS capability available just on (I think...) Runway 26, as the necessary lighting will have been fully re-instated at that end.

The runway closes overnight again on 01 October until 30 November to complete the lighting installation on Runway 08. Other associated work includes the junction between Taxiway Charlie and the runway (due to be completed by the end of next week) and the junction between Taxiway Bravo and the runway.

It is rumoured that because of 'significant' new cargo business and the keeness of those carriers that have temporarily decamped (e.g. DHL, MNG, AAG) to return to Luton ASAP, it's possible that the runway overnight work - if it stays ahead of schedule - could actually be completed at the end of October enabling the runway to reopen H24 and fully Cat. 3b from 01 November.

Good news all round!!

:ok:

[LTNman]

Come Foggy October will 26 be available for CAT 3 approaches during the day or will it drop back down to Cat 1?

[CAP493]

Runway 26 should revert permanently to Cat. 3b from 01 July this year.

:ok:

[Buster the Bear]

I was offered a set of documents recently relating to Camp 270, most of the contents were in German, the bits I could not understand I got a German language expert to translate. In the main, they were letters and postcards from German POW's sent back to their home/friends/family in Germany/Austria and Hungary.

There was direct reference to POW's being held at Luton airport via the official censorship which accompanied the prose.

The items were eventually sold to a dedicated collector in Austria. I declined to purchase as they were outside my collecting parameters, but were interesting none the less. From memory, much reference was made to repatriation back to Germany, so maybe it was a staging post afer the end of WW2? Judging by the bureaucracy in the UK, I am surprised Autair were not flying them home in the 1960's!

Good news relating to the runway. The Arann timings are acknowledged Mr 1 BRAVO, hopefully more easterly wind to come for the summer! I am getting my noise complaint pad printed this week! :O

[King Pong]

So what time is the England team flying out on Monday? I assume they will be using a BA 777 parked on stand 47. No doubt there will be a media circus in the drop off area but the atmosphere should be great.

[LTNman]

From the Independent

Tomorrow the squad will fly from Luton airport to Karlsruhe in the Baden-Baden region of Germany aboard BA9200C.

[King Pong]

from the BBC

Sven-Goran Eriksson's squad will leave at 1530 BST on flight BA9200C from Luton airport to Karlsruhe.

The Airbus A320 which will take them to Germany has been named 'Pride of the Nation' and will display Three Lions.

[vintage ATCO]

I was at Old Warden yesterday and we rang TC at around 1800-1830 to ask for a favour from Luton Approach (Kittyhawk with over-heating problems going to North Weald, could it route direct?) We were told that Luton had 29 (live) pending inbounds!! :eek:

We wished them well and put the phone down. Glad I wasn't at work! :)

[Itswindyout]

who organised the Lanc to loiter over Old Warden.....it was agreat show, as usual.....great weather. etc.

when the "special" arrival was discused at the time that the PP was flying, we expected a JP fhom Weald to pop up, but the lanc was a great surprise.


windy

[Powerjet1]

from the BBC
Sven-Goran Eriksson's squad will leave at 1530 BST on flight BA9200C from Luton airport to Karlsruhe.
The Airbus A320 which will take them to Germany has been named 'Pride of the Nation' and will display Three Lions.
Excellent coverage on BBC News 24, of the arrival of the England football team at LTN, by coach, and their subsequent departure on the BA A320. Seems most of the airport had turned out to give them a good send off on the start of their World Cup campaign.

[vintage ATCO]

But the World Cup is taking place in the West Indies in 2007 . . . ????

I don't understand. :confused:

[Pain in the R's]

Spent two hours standing by the fence in the drop off zone waiting for the team bus. There was really a nice atmosphere there this afternoon. Shame the aircraft could not have been towed onto stand pointing nose out, as the supporters would have had a better view.

There was also plenty of time to witness the chaos in the drop off area due to cars that were parked up as drivers waited for passengers. Many of the cars were there for the two hours I was there with no attempt being made to move them on despite a tow truck that just did the occasional circuit of what is basically a free car park. I never realised it was so bad. I wonder why the airport authority allows the road network to ground to a standstill when it would be so easy to keep the traffic moving?

[forest]

It was a really good atmosphere. just had to laugh at the BIG guy and his patriotic chavmobile!!!

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4376/buses3kw.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8861/becks20rq.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/246/becks9rw.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1752/steps8jg.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4307/steps22wb.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/7964/chavcar0fv.jpg

Sorry for the quality, had to zoom and resize!!

[LTNman]

The crowd

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7528/p60501397tp.jpg

http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/3554/p60501409io.jpg

Normal traffic conditions in the drop off zone:mad:

http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/543/p60501433kt.jpg

[Buster the Bear]

Imagine the chaos if the FA, it's staff and players return home with a trophy!

Nice to see so many easyJet staff waving so enthusiastically toward a British Airways Airbus today! :D :D :D :D :D

Word has it that MOL will be leaping up and down in celebration outside easyLand very shortly :{

[Powerjet1]

Imagine the chaos if the FA, it's staff and players return home with a trophy

Not returning to LTN but will go to LHR for that very reason.
Word has it that MOL will be leaping up and down in celebration outside easyLand very shortly
Buster, care to elaborate, or are we to assume you are referring to the record profits announced today by ryanair.

[codpiece face]

I was in the town centre after the 1990 semi final defeat. We were all on the shop roofs and the atmosphere was fantastic, the squad came round in the open top bus.

[Buster the Bear]

Nothing to do with Ryanair profits, more to do with a certain airline, slipping out of a certain country rather quietly and hoping no one will notice :{ . Not Luton routes related I may add!

How spooky, my 1,666th post on the 6th of the 6th, 2006!

[nickmanl]

Buster, I take it your referring to easy pulling out of Ireland? Does anyone know the reasons? Its not like Easy to take a beating on new routes!

[anna_list]

Hi,

I take it your referring to easy pulling out of Ireland? Does anyone know the reasons?

If true, yields and passenger numbers may well have something to do with it!

Yesterday in their full year results presentation, Ryanair very helpfully 'outed' EasyJet's passenger numbers and load factors on their Irish routes for March 2006:


EasyJet LGW - ORK: 14,300 Pax, 55% flown load factor
EasyJet LGW - SNN: 4,500 Pax, 52% flown load factor
EasyJet LGW - NOK: 5,400 Pax, 55% flown load factor


The figures above are taken from the presentation. I have not attempted to verify them. If the numbers have been anywhere near that bad for other months, it's difficult to see how the routes could be sustained.

Source (Page 14):
http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/invest/docs/present/quarter4_2006.pdf

[Buster the Bear]

Why pick a fight you are incapable of winning? As an example, do Ryanair routes directly compete with easyJet from Luton? If easyJet announced a 4x daily Luton-Dublin, folk following this Luton thread would think that easyJet had gone barmy, so why pick a fight at Gatwick and how much has this cost the shareholders? Gatwick-Glasgow twice daily should do well, assuming the rumours to be true?

Plenty of carnival atmosphere at Gatwick to launch the Irish routes! What next, easyJet announce a hub in Morocco!

My guess is that the new orange management will avoid such a humiliation again!

Will easyJet actually fly into Turkey at the month's end and why are they not taking bookings on the route currently? I understand that folk that have booked will get a full refund should the route fail to depart.

Selling a route without political agreement, what a bunch of amateurs eh, or am I a simple bear? Istanbul here we......come....sometime if allowed?

[nickmanl]

Didn't Ryanair only start operations from Gatwick to Cork, Shannon and Knock immediately after easy? Therefore there was a gap in the market which easy could have hoped to exploit. Then again one would expect the easy management to expect Ryanair to put up a fight!

[DDF]

How odd the BSL-SAW flights seem to be going well

[Buster the Bear]

Luton-Istanbul, will it, wont it? They have been selling it for a good while though, up until very recently!

Maybe easyJet are in need of a route development person, one capable of announcing, selling and then delivering a new route long term having researched it first?

No wonder the shareholders drafted in the head of the RAC, for easyJet could do with a bit of 'internal road side fixing'! Sat Nav seems to have frozen!

So will easyJet launch the Luton-Istanbul route on June 29th, or announce Cork, Knock and Shannon from Luton instead?

Anyway, I am a bear so what do I know?

(Ciao fly for now......Arann to Liege/Angers, BMI to Brussels)

Anyone remember the 'new' airlines planning to fly from Luton during the mid 1980's:
Denham Air Services L1011's to America
Air Britan 748's to Leeds (note Britan and not Britain) long before Brown Air/Capital.

[LTNman]

Maybe easyjet have found out that flying from Gatwick does not guarantee success on some routes.

[ezpz]

Luton-Istanbul, will it, wont it? Maybe easyJet are in need of a route development person, one capable of announcing, selling and then delivering a new route long term having researched it first?


Maybe they are just in need of some Cabin Crew and Pilots to fly all those planes. We now have to make recruitment PA's on all flight's landing into Luton.

[LTNman]

Silverjet are advertising now for staff and flight crew for LTN. Each job has the following heading:


Silverjet is the new UK based airline offering luxury travel at premium economy prices with 767 aircraft fitted with 100 flat beds and a unique range of products and services. We will be operating from our base at Luton’s private jet terminal.

We will launch towards the end of 2006 with two daily flights between London and New York, followed by new routes to the Middle East, Africa and USA.

Our fleet will build to ten 767 aircraft over the next three years and we will offer our customers a true 'private jet' experience on the ground and in the air, that surpasses the standard business class service offered by other airlines.

-------------

Just wondering how Harrods will squeeze a pair of 767’s onto their already busy south apron?

Also looking forward a couple of years, if the rumours are true that Harrods is set to move their terminal to an expanded Harrods apron by their hangars just how big will this apron need to be to handle an expanded Silverjet fleet of 10 plus the aircraft that will be shifted off the south apron.

[Minnie the Moocher]

Dashing through LTN Terminal yesterday lunchtime, I spotted what appeared to be a bouncy castle near the checkins.

As I was on my way to a flight I didnt have time to stop.

Anyone any idea what that was all about?

:confused:

[anna_list]

Well done Buster,

It certainly looks as though you've got your paw on the pulse.

One by one your predictions seem to be coming true.

Any idea what's happening with LTN - BTS and LTN - CAG ? As far as I can see, the rest of the EasyJet routes from LTN are now bookable for the winter.

[LTNman]

Dashing through LTN Terminal yesterday lunchtime, I spotted what appeared to be a bouncy castle near the checkins.

As I was on my way to a flight I didnt have time to stop.

Anyone any idea what that was all about?

:confused:

The official launch party of Aer Arann’s service to Newquay in Cornwall

[Powerjet1]

The official launch party of Aer Arann’s service to Newquay in Cornwall

Start date changed from 3rd to 6th July. Will this route, together with Lorient(already started), be operated by Luton based, Arrann crew ?

[andyafc]

Anybody know what airlines are flying the special world cup flights for tomoros game and what aircraft they are using? Couple of flights in the morning to saarbrucken and frankfurt with the carriers being BE for saarbrucken and VG for frankfurt, any ideas and if there are anymore

[easyprison]

Great, £999 all the way, business class, fine wines & food and end up at Luton Airport....

Great!!! Bet those Yanks are looking forward to their first views of a modern British Airport!!!

[forest]

Where else could they end up, taxying off the runway and be parked up and be met by a private car in 1-4 mins?????!!!!!!!
They wont have to troll through the main terminal!!

Jealous easyprison? stand 1R? or 46 on your last rotation?? U decide?

[Buster the Bear]

Judging by the volume of executive flights today, I bet not a single passenger saw the inside of the Tinminal!

[forest]

I know!! i witnessed 10+ at the holding point B1 on many many an occasion from 7-11am, in fact it was constant!!
Poor old easy to glasgow, from request push to airbourne - nearly an hour!!!!!

Luton, Where?? OH, that quiet little london airport!!!! Really!!!!!

[CAP493]

...I witnessed 10+ at the holding point B1 on many many an occasion from 7-11am, in fact it was constant!!
Poor old easy to Glasgow, from request push to airbourne - nearly an hour!!!!!
This has nothing to do with LTN or its ATC guys but everything to do with thoroughly cr*p airspace and local route interactions, conflicts with other airports and other airspace activity, all of which that should have been sorted out two years ago but was not because nobody seems to have had their eye sufficiently on the ball. As regards business development at LTN, these people must have been getting their intelligence briefings from the CIA...

:{

Great, £999 all the way, business class, fine wines & food and end up at Luton Airport....
As has been suggested previously, easyprison, if you find LTN so distasteful, why not bug**r off and fly from another airport with another airline operator...???

Rest assured, nobody will miss you...

:= :ugh:

[Minnie the Moocher]

Quote - "As regards business development at LTN, these people must have been getting their intelligence briefings from the CIA..."

Same story on their PR side apparently. When I was going through the "Tinminal" (as Buster so aptly puts it) yesterday, there was a blockade of the front doors by an anti-airport NIMBY / lobby group, who I'm told were demanding to hand over an "ASBO" to the airport manager!

What a hoot! They looked like a bunch of complete wallies - but it was a clever idea and these folks are now consistently wrong footing LTN management with these sorts of quite sophisticated publicity stunts.

More to come? :O

[ebenezer]

...there was a blockade of the front doors by an anti-airport NIMBY / lobby group, who I'm told were demanding to hand over an "ASBO" to the airport manager!

"SLAP slaps an ASBO on the Airport.
On the European Day of Action on Aviation, SLAP (Stop Luton Airport Plan) staged a demonstration at the Airport during which children delivered Anti-Social Behaviour Orders (ASBOs) citing noise, pollution and global warming as its main misdemeanours. LADACAN supported the event which was held to coincide with demonstrations against airport expansion at Heathrow, Stansted, Southampton, Aberdeen, and Bristol as well as at airports in Belgium and France"

These people are a pathetic bunch of two-faced unprincipled idiots and to use children as a means to make a political point is utterly disgraceful.

Almost all of these people fly on business or holiday from other airports for example, Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted - so they simpy take their noise disturbance to other parts of the country; they also consume all manner of products, food and goods made abroad and air-freighted into the UK.

Their only aim in life is to preserve their own little 'patch' of real estate.

They call themselves environmentalists. You must be kidding!!!

Next time, such people should be moved on by the Police for causing an Obstruction or for behaviour likely to cause a Breach of the Peace.

Better still, have them committed...

:rolleyes: :mad: :uhoh:

[Ametyst]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who buy houses near an airport then do not expect the airport to expand or get busier! In fact I have no sympathy.

[Buster the Bear]

As for the new airspace, 08 and inbounds flying close to my house......AT LAST! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I moved into my house years before the new airspace, so when I see a plane flying close to my house, should I phone up and congratulate Luton airport for ensuring safety, just to balance out the complaints?

An ASBO to the airport management? If these so called protesters were blocking my path, could I slap them........with another piece of useless paper?

The only paper worth contrubuting would require rubber gloves and a peg! Actually, bears don't use the stuff as they live in the woods!

[nickmanl]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who buy houses near an airport then do not expect the airport to expand or get busier! In fact I have no sympathy.

I'm afraid in the eyes of the law this attitude does not stand up. If they prove the airport is a nuisance it doesn't matter if they moved in after the airport was quite big. Just because it was there before they moved in is no defence.

(I'm not defending them as they annoy me as well, just saying how the law will view it)

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

CAP493 wrote:

This has nothing to do with LTN or its ATC guys but everything to do with thoroughly cr*p airspace and local route interactions, conflicts with other airports and other airspace activity, all of which that should have been sorted out two years ago but was not because nobody seems to have had their eye sufficiently on the ball.

I see that there were significant delays to Compton departures (not of Luton's making) yesterday due to parachute dropping to the west:

1) Where is this taking place please?

2) Are departures from any other airports impacted?

3) Would this be allowed if departures from Gatwick, Heathrow or Stansted were delayed ? (probably a stupid question!!).

[Minnie the Moocher]

Quote: "These people are a pathetic bunch of two-faced unprincipled idiots and to use children as a means to make a political point is utterly disgraceful".

Quite true - and they looked it too. But my point is that they are also extremely clever, have good resources and plenty of them.

If it was SLAP that organised this demo as you say, they have a working journalist advising them so it's not suprising that theyre getting the better of LTN on the PR front and at an important time for Luton.

The airport seems to have no PR. They have only issued 4 news releases on the website in the last three months, one of those was advice about rail delays and the other about the cancellation of a proposed Aer Arran service!

:confused:

[forest]

I know we have got the world cup and silverstone traffic but yesterday.

391 movements on a sunday!!! A new record day!

[Powerjet1]

I know we have got the world cup and silverstone traffic but yesterday.
391 movements on a sunday!!! A new record day!
Great.
I picked the wife & mother-in-law up yesterday evening from an easy flight from EDI, and the place was just 'chocka' with pax. It was like August Bank holiday, not a sunday in June. THE CTA was certainly taking a battering with all those people milling around, and it was extremely difficult to actually walk anywhere. As discussed many times before, very urgent improvements are required to this area.

So as we head towards mid-June, the long awaited 'Final Masterplan' has still not been made public. This was meant to happened last month. Can we therefore assume that no planning applications of any sort have been submitted, regarding Phase One expansion?. New business development will be hampered in the short term.

With the proposed new spanish owners of STN, rumoured to be cutting some £1bn plus off BAA's fancy expansion plans, and going for a much more loco, "user friendly", style development, will not make the expansion and the ability to attract new business to LTN any easier.

[airhumberside]

Air Turquoise have moved their flights from Reims to Vatry

[Buster the Bear]

Police helicopter move to Henlow:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/5073630.stm

[LGS6753]

You may all be pleased to know that the first I heard of the 'protests' was here on PPRUNE. I don't see local press but see Nationals, internet sites and newsgroups.
Hopefully their efforts went unrewarded by publicity.

[Buster the Bear]

20:25 local: American Biz Jet having to hold in the air on radar headings currently as there is no room on the ground, and it is only a Falcon (N8200E)!

..........Oh, room has now been found and a delay of 5-10 min in total! A sign of things to come? I guess a film premiere in London and corporate jets parked up awaiting departure for England's next game have contributed?

I wonder what will happen if Farnborough's attempt to open for longer/more movements is rejected by their local authority?

ASBO SLAP is being reported in the local papers this week.

[CAP493]

...see that there were significant delays to Compton departures (not of Luton's making) yesterday due to parachute dropping to the west:

1) Where is this taking place please?

2) Are departures from any other airports impacted?

3) Would this be allowed if departures from Gatwick, Heathrow or Stansted were delayed ? (probably a stupid question!!).

1) Lewknor near Stokenchurch - the site is listed in the UK 'Air Pilot'
2) Only the occasional Compton out of Northolt
3) An interesting question that you've already answered!!

But, rest assured, this issue is being followed up.

;)

I wonder what will happen if Farnborough's attempt to open for longer/more movements is rejected by their local authority?

Longer hours almost certainly won't happen - the original planning permission was only granted by Rushmore Borough Council on the basis of very stringent operating restrictions which the local population, many of whom are of the 'stockbroker' and 'Lloyds underwriter' genre, just won't accept, particularly as the flying side doesn't generate that amount of local employment and the local area is not an unemployment 'black spot'.

:=

...the proposed new spanish owners of STN, rumoured to be cutting some £1bn plus off BAA's fancy expansion plans, and going for a much more loco, "user friendly", style development

BAA's cost base is significantly higher than ACDL (ex. TBI) and the existing development plans for Stansted require significant investment. Given the borrowing that Ferrovial has allegedly taken up in order to fund its take-over, the likelihood that Stansted can still construct the second runway, operate more cheaply than it currently does and do this without cross-subsidisation from other group airports all whilst providing a more 'lo-co' product is frankly, a pie-in-the-sky pipe dream.

:hmm:

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

CAP493 - thanks for the gen on the parachute jumping.

Buster - as I understand it, the application to increase the number of movements at Farnborough on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank holidays has been rejected. Doubtless Sunday evenings will continue to be lively at Luton!

[ebenezer]

there were significant delays to Compton departures (not of Luton's making) yesterday due to parachute dropping
Absolutely nuts! If Network Rail was forced by the Strategic Rail Authority to adopt the same crazy logic that the CAA forces onto NATS, then every owner of a private train would be entitled to run it over the national railway network whenever they wanted to. So the 0705 from Newcastle to Kings Cross, the 1412 from Bristol to Birmingham or the 1210 from Euston to Manchester could all be delayed for up to a quarter-of-an-hour whilst a private train ran over the same lines and so was in confliction.
What a way to run a business, what a way to run a Country!!!
:ugh: :{

[Buster the Bear]

The sky went dark over my bear pit and I thought that I saw an A330 passing overhead, inbound to Luton? Did they get the inflatable apron out for it?

Delays to commercial flights, come on ebenezer, Controlled Airspace should be shared with all, well according to the CAA it should!

I am sure Mr O Leary would fully support delays to his flights to facilitate the recreational use of the TMA! :eek:

[ebenezer]

Delays to commercial flights, come on ebenezer, Controlled Airspace should be shared with all, well according to the CAA it should!
Now then Buster, we've warned you before about those neddies that inhabit CAA House. Of course, if they were all rounded up and put into a safari park for the children and grown-ups to feed bananas and apples to, we could staff CAA House with bears and that way get some sensible, intelligent, workable & bearable (!!) airspace procedures & policies in place...
;) :hmm:

[forest]

Yep, A330 on a Thomson charter, in from Paris out to Varna.
Its not such a problem, landed, albeit twice, made "A" turn off, parked on 48 easily. Outbound airbourne by "C"!! NO fuss!!

And as a french pilot, even wished England good luck for the Game!! :)

[22/04]

Hang on a minute!! Railways have always been a form of public transport and have never had significant private traffic and they have to have the infrastrucutre before they expand. The same rule should apply to airports and airspace. Why not cap capacity pending improvements in airspace at a sensible level i.e. "if you 've only got two tracks you can only run two trains" for now. Trouble with London TMA airports seems to be they are limited by runway slots but no take no account of airspace - how about an airspace mediated slot policy or a combined approach. Then Manston could really fly!

Anyway did any business jets (rich private not like me with my 180 horse Lycoming or the para droppers) contribute? If so they surely should be at the back of the queue

Just trying to stir really


Accept though that those of you trying to do a honest days work are caught up in the middle!

[CAP493]

Why not cap capacity pending improvements in airspace at a sensible level & Trouble with London TMA airports seems to be they are limited by runway slots but no take no account of airspace - how about an airspace mediated slot policy?
The issue regarding parachuting activities impacting on instrument (IFR) flights departing from Luton via Compton has nothing to do with 'airspace capacity', but rather, it's to do with the incompatibility of these two flying activities in the same controlled airspace given the rules that must be applied by air traffic control.

Your suggestion that airport capacity should somehow be capped pending improvements in airspace sounds logical but the fact is that the organisation which manages the TMA airspace (NATS) - as a monopoly supplier of 'area' air traffic control services - is required under the terms of its Licence to provide equitable access to the airspace (subject to airspace users meeting and complying with the rules and requirements attaching to that airspace [mainly aircraft equippage and pilot qualification] and complying with air traffic control clearances and instructions), and is also charged with delivering the required level of service to the users in terms of catering for each airport's (and airline's) expansion plans.

However, apart from applying 'flow' measures to match flight demand with airspace capacity, NATS does not have the ability to implement improvments to airspace except via the painfully slow and protracted Airspace Change Proposal route that the DfT now requires to be followed and which recently, even introduced the concept of assessing and measuring the impact of airspace and flights on 'tranquility'. Additionally, who is going to 'cap' these movements? NATS does not have any authority (nor should it have) to do this other than via 'flow' measures, so presumably you're suggesting that the CAA or DfT should undertake this regulatory function? One can just see the litigation and writs being issued when decisions are taken that affect commercial viability and business!! Then there are the likely legal challenges that would undoubtedly follow!!

The whole concept is frankly a mess, and IMHO it's caused primarily by the Government (or rather the civil servants running the Government's policies) which seems to have as its Mission Statement "You can please (fool?) all of the people all of the time" a concept that anyone with an ounce of intellect understands is fundamentally flawed.

There is a frequent mis-match in airspace capacity vs. airspace demand but to its credit, NATS has managed to reduce delays by implementing improvements (from the airspace user's perspective - not necessarily from the perspective of NOPEs, NIMBYs and the GA fraternity!!) to various airspace areas but the specific problem out of Luton to which Olney I Bravo refers is caused simply by two flying activities that are mutually incompatible and the CAA's insistance on behalf of the DfT that equitable airspace access must be given to both.

:{

[Powerjet1]

Interestingly, Aer Arran flights between LTN & IOM were, but as of today, are not available for booking after sunday 1 Oct. After a year on the route is this going the same way as their LPL-IOM ?

[ebenezer]

...it's caused primarily by the Government (or rather the civil servants running the Government's policies)
The real culprit is the EU's deregulation of the airline industry (which followed the US Government's similar move some years ago) that has fuelled massive expansion particularly in the low-cost market, throughout Europe, much of it in the UK at airports such as Luton, Stansted, Liverpool, Bristol, Birmingham, etc., etc., whilst the necessary infrastructure (airspace, surface infrastructure, terminal capacity) and processes required to create that infrastructure remain mired in 1970s-style bureaucratic red tape and protocol.

[Powerjet1]

Confirmed by email from Aer Arran, LTN-IOM will in future, only operate during the summer season. Current service will finish on 1 October. Should start again around Easter 2007. Newquay is also only operating until 17 September.

[Buster the Bear]

L-1011 operating a Thomson flight today so I understand, how rare is that!

[WOWBOY]

Newquay is also only operating until 17 September.

Is NQY - LTN a summer only route aswell?

[LTNman]

Growth slows

ATM's

6979 up 6.2%
year on year 77736 up 12.4%

Passengers

826,152 up 3.1%
year on year 9,269,517 up 11.8%

[sleeplessnights]

405 movements yesterday. (Friday 16th June) Roll on summer.

[Buster the Bear]

405 movements from a single runway that requires a back-track for departure from either end! :D :D

In particular, well done ATC, how do they get the time to clean the cammodes up there? Is the average ATCO age still 75?

[forest]

Careful buster! by my reckoning the average age yesterday was 34!!!!

I say good use of conditionals, Intersection departures and use of the ATM.

And a helpful and accommodating radar team!

5-8 at the hold is now the norm, any time of day!!
sometimes to get inbound a/c onto stands!

[Buster the Bear]

34 eh, must be employing cheap labour these days. forest, I would ask for a rise based upon increased productivity!

5-8 at the hold, must be interesting on 08 :eek: !

Only another 3-4 years until Luton gets its own dedicated inbound hold? By the time all the consultation and objections have been counted, that time frame may well have been extended. The entire TMA is due for a complete overhaul, plans evidently are well advanced on that front as well. A shame then that capacity increases may well be inhibited due to a lack of infrastructure development on the ground :ugh: .

The extra capacity that the re-design of the TMA will bring, should therefore satisfy the growth brought about by Runway 2 at Stansted?

According to rumour, the easyJet Luton-Istanbul will not happen for a good while, something to do with selling the flights but not having traffic rights approved at that time? Are there different agreements affecting the Basel operation with the Turkish Government?

[Powerjet1]

According to rumour, the easyJet Luton-Istanbul will not happen for a good while, something to do with selling the flights but not having traffic rights approved at that time?
If that's the case, can we assume the aircraft designated for the route will be used to increase freqency on existing routes, or maybe start another new route as well, at least in the short term. Block time outbound from LTN to Instanbul, to block time back to LTN, was about 8 hrs 20mins, so quite a chunk to fill in the day.

[Buster the Bear]

As I say, the Istanbul issue is just a rumour, to be confirmed by anyone with the knowledge in the orange 'shrink wrapped' HQ? Must be hot inside the cellophane halls of power in this heat!

Further to this, the fact that the delay in starting the route will take some pressure of the crewing issues currently being experienced by all airlines. Basically a lack of trained pilots.

Well knowing my luck, the route will be back on sale first thing on Monday?

If it is not, Buster told you first!

405 movements in a day, I am still in awe of this figure! Last time this was achieved was with both grass runways in use, a VERY active flying club, and the Post Office strike. From memory that was back in the mid 80's?

One night in particular comes to mind when the P O were so desperate for planes to shift the mail, they were chartering anything that could fly, PA-30 from Biggin Hill turned up and off it flew packed with sacks of letters! One of about 40 others of varying sizes above!

Stansted moved close to 720 flights on Friday!

[ebenezer]

405 movements in a single day at Luton is significantly different to the days when flying club touch-and-goes made up the numbers.

Luton has NEVER achieved before over 400 IFR 'airways' type movements in a single day and it's an amazing achievement given the lack of ground infrastructure and the lousy airspace infrastructure with which ATC at Luton and at West Drayton have to contend.

As far as LLAO is concerned, it's high time that they acknowledged that they're no longer running a quiet regional backwater of the type Buster remembers when he was a youg lad in short trousers, and so should staff accordingly. And as far as the West Drayton planners are concerned, they desperately need to sort out things such as Northolt's effect on Luton, parachuting delaying some of Luton's departing flights, and not just the mess around Brookmans Park.

How do they get the time to clean the commodes up there? Is the average ATCO age still 75?

Buster - instead of sitting around in your bear garden gorging on honey and magic mushrooms, you should get out more: why not arrange a visit to your former workplace, and see how it's changed? Only a handful of controllers there are over 45 and those that are do the same fine job as their younger counterparts. Old bears like you should be cautious about being ageist, otherwise you might find yourself being shot and then stuffed...

And a helpful and accommodating radar team!

No Sir! An ATC radar team that simply does its job (and a very professional one), just like the guys at Gatwick, Heathrow and Stansted radars, not to mention the TMA North chaps sorting out the above-mentioned airspace mess.

Well done to everyone involved!!

:D :ok: :)

[LTNman]

405 movements in a single day at Luton is significantly different to the days when flying club touch-and-goes made up the numbers.


Even more remarkable seeing that the runway was open for only 18 hours:D :ok:

[CAP493]

]...I say good use of conditionals, Intersection departures and use of the ATM. And a helpful and accommodating radar team! 5-8 at the hold is now the norm
...a single runway that requires a back-track for departure from either end!Is the average ATCO age still 75?

405 movements in a day at Luton is indeed, very very good going. But please can we drop the rather patronising stance that some of these posts imply. There is no reason why the ATC service provided by Luton Tower and TC Luton controllers should differ from that which is provided by those at Stansted or Gatwick towers or their respective TC approach units. The faint whiff of amazement that it all went well, and that the Tower chaps somehow made good use of conditionals, or that TC Luton was 'accommodating' is frankly, insulting to both groups of controllers who are every bit as professional, and every bit as efficiently innovative as their colleagues elsewhere in the London TMA.

The purpose of a good AIR (Tower) controller is to safely maximise the use of the runway by minimising runway occupancy times. The purpose of a good INT or FIN (radar) controller is to safely deliver the required gaps when requested by the Tower in order to assist in achieving this result. There is no reason to suppose that this can't be accomplished by the chaps at Luton Tower and Luton Radar just as it is at Gatwick and Stansted (and at Heathrow and Manchester during mixed-mode operations). FYI, almost all the techniques employed by Luton Tower are the same as used at HIRO ('High Intensity Runway Operations') airports such as Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester and Stansted, the only methodology not used being the modified landing clearance procedure, simply because Luton's runway is not - currently - long enough, and there aren't any rapid exit taxiways available to enable the required after-landing runway occupancy times to be achieved.

Buster, your pre-occupation with age and commodes suggests a personal almost subliminal concern for which I would strongly recommend taking professional psychiatric advice. For what it's worth, if you examined the age profile of the TC Heathrow controllers, I rather think that you'd discover the average age is in the region of 46 - this doesn't seem to unduly affect the service that Heathrow Approach provides...

As far as snipes at LLAO's 'staffing', not quite sure which staff are being highlighted but in terms of pax handling, the 'staffing' is entirely down to the handling agents, one of whom - because of poor customer service - in the last 18 months has already received a 'yellow card' from LLAO's senior management.

The two most significant points arising from 405 movements in a day at Luton (bearing in mind that traditionally, it's July and September that weigh in as Luton's busiest months) are that firstly, this was achieved despite (unlike Gatwick, Heathrow and Stansted) Luton having only limited 'freeflow' between Luton Tower and the adjacent TMA sectors (whereby Luton Tower can depart aircraft without reference to London) and that in terms of the arrivals side of the equation, these were handled in TMA airspace (as opposed to Luton's airspace) that is frankly neither user-friendly nor designed for this level of traffic: consider that Luton and Stansted combined now generate more daily movements than GatwickStansted moved close to 720 flights on Friday and then compare the airspace structure (routes, holds, choke points, unusual airspace 'activity' and SID interactions) and you'll readily grasp the point.

The controllers at Luton and at London certainly came up trumps and are to be congratulated on this achievement.

But it's only what one would expect from the professional ATC teams involved and it should not come as a surprise to anyone, not even to the odd aging old bear...

:= :hmm:

[King Pong]

405 movements in a day at Luton is indeed, very very good going. But please can we drop the rather patronising stance that some of these posts imply. There is no reason why the ATC service provided by Luton Tower and TC Luton controllers should differ from that which is provided by those at Stansted or Gatwick towers or their respective TC approach units.

Cap493 is right, if you want to insult ATC at Luton just sing their praises. They are a mean bunch and don’t like any compliments. :=

Anyway there are not many jobs where you can work a night shift and do bugger all from midnight to 6 am Monday to Friday. Any vacancies as I fancy the big easy

[CAP493]

They are a mean bunch and don’t like any compliments. Anyway there are not many jobs where you can work a night shift and do bugger all from midnight to 6 am Monday to Friday. Any vacancies as I fancy the big easy
Sorry King Pong, you've entirely missed the point - try re-reading my post and note what I said, not what you thought I was trying to say. And by the way, job applications from persons who display such an aggressive attitude and who make such ill-informed utterances are unlikely to generate a response from many employers. But if you're really desperate for a job that would suit your obvious talents, you could try the French Foreign Legion.

They're not particularly selective and they don't ask too many questions.

:hmm:

[vintage ATCO]

Cap493 is right, if you want to insult ATC at Luton just sing their praises. They are a mean bunch and don’t like any compliments.
It's awright, you can patronise me as much as you want. :) Mind you, the bl@@dy zimmer frame broke climbing the stairs this morning.

405? Pah! Had 424 the other Sunday at Old Warden. :E:E:E

[forest]

What is the world coming to?? Nobody can make a compliment without upsetting someone!!
No body bother next time and lets let everyone get on with a miserable daily routine. If that makes them happier??:ugh:

I'm going back to my sunbed on the beach! have a nice summer.

[King Pong]

Anyway too more interesting things, how many black cabs can you squeeze into the drop off area? Well at least 47 because that was the number I counted today.

Anyone else noticed the new signage that adorns the drop off area. Gone are the fees for outstaying the 10 minute rule. The new signs just say Drop off only, no waiting. Of course this has had a big impact on congestion with everyone now obeying the signs.:mad: := :{ :confused:

I see that a large chunk of the short term car park opposite the existing drop off area has been cordoned off. The area is at least twice the size of the existing drop off zone. Could this be the prelude for the construction of a new drop off area? Maybe this area is going to be resurfaced to improve the short term car park? Anyone know what is going on?

Work starts tomorrow on the new M1 link road from the Ibis:ok:

[antilla]

Why all the willy-waving over the number of movements being achieved?
Luton has just been granted a significant piece of additional airspace that resolved a known bottleneck - and (would you believe it?) the number of movements then increases.
Surely this growth in numbers was inevitable, and possibly (at least in part) its intended purpose.
Why is everyone acting so surprised?

[vintage ATCO]

Luton has just been granted a significant piece of additional airspace that resolved a known bottleneck - and (would you believe it?) the number of movements then increases.
The two don't go together, and I think some would dispute the word 'significant'. And bottlenecks only move, they don't necessarily go away. ;)

I think you'll find the increase in movements has (perhaps partly) something to do with some amateur sporting event in Germany. :E

[LTNman]

Luton is almost at the point of turning business away. In fact some one off cargo flights have been turned away before the runway resurfacing work started when the airport was open 24 hours. The airport is creaking with so many issues that need addressing that it is hard to tell what will give way first.

The worrying thing is that there appears to be no urgency in the airport submitting plans for phase one expansion. Even if plans were published today it could well be a year before work is started and 2 years before the fruits of any work could be felt.

The most urgent requirement is to get passengers to the terminal during busy periods. Last Friday at 7pm I drove out of the airport and witnessed that the start of the traffic queue into the airport was actually on the A505 roundabout. Just one car loading or unloading passengers can stop all airport bound traffic for a minute due to a lack of any space by the kerbside due to parked cars.

It would appear that the airports solution was to install new no waiting signs in the drop off area which everyone ignores yet this area could be kept clear if the airport employed some Heathrow type traffic wardens who don’t take any prisoners. The solution is so easy yet it is beyond everyone at the airport:mad:

[OpsSix]

Luton is almost at the point of turning business away. In fact some one off cargo flights have been turned away before the runway resurfacing work started when the airport was open 24 hours. The airport is creaking with so many issues that need addressing that it is hard to tell what will give way first.

The worrying thing is that there appears to be no urgency in the airport submitting plans for phase one expansion. Even if plans were published today it could well be a year before work is started and 2 years before the fruits of any work could be felt.

The most urgent requirement is to get passengers to the terminal during busy periods. Last Friday at 7pm I drove out of the airport and witnessed that the start of the traffic queue into the airport was actually on the A505 roundabout. Just one car loading or unloading passengers can stop all airport bound traffic for a minute due to a lack of any space by the kerbside due to parked cars.

It would appear that the airports solution was to install new no waiting signs in the drop off area which everyone ignores yet this area could be kept clear if the airport employed some Heathrow type traffic wardens who don’t take any prisoners. The solution is so easy yet it is beyond everyone at the airport:mad:

Thats why I fly from STN, BHX & LGW. First flight out in the early hours and you can get to all 3 from Luton within an hour.

[22/04]

Still think LTN are a friendly ATC unit though. Its nice to get a comment like "you must know when I'm working" from a hard pressed controller you have called several times that day asking to enter the airspace as a GA pilot. No criticism of other units, just my personal experience from working 129.55.

[egnxema]

LUTON PAX DROP-OFF ZONE
Firstly :O :sad: - I humbly raise my hand and acknowledge that I did wrong. I quote this as an example to show why I can't understand what is happening at LTN.
I went to STN late one evening to pick up a friend arriving on a domestic flight. As you may know the domestic arrivals end of the terminal is very quiet at night. I had arranged with my friend to come straight out to the kerbside where I would be waiting. Next...my big mistake. := I got out of my car, just nipped into the terminal to look on an arrivals board, then went straight back out to my car. In total honesty I could not have been away from my car for more than 3 mins!! When I approached my car my heart sank :eek: :eek: - a policeman stood looking at it talking into his radio.:ooh: I jogged towards the car - to be met with the most humiliating, forceful b***ocking I have ever had! :{ I honestly felt like a little boy in a headmaster's office! :\ And I fully understand that I deserved it. :( I had been foolish.:uhoh:
What is annoying though is that I regularly go to LTN - to witness a drop-off zone PACKED with parked, unattended cars. WHY? :eek: :*
WHO - WHAT - WHY??? :ugh: :ugh: :confused:

[Buster the Bear]

I understand that executive business was turned away last week due to a lack of available parking? I am also told that now Luton is an official factory maintenance facility for Gulfstream, that operators of such jets prefer to use Luton as their number 1 port of call just in case of unserviceability issues arising.

Word has it, that Istanbul will be back on sale July 1st......not too sure which year though.

Shoot and stuff Buster, BLIMEY, that would be a long job, I have had a few try to 'shaft' me over the years though!

22/04, you do realise that 129.550 is based at West Drayton, so you are not talking to the unit at Luton?

Antilla you state: "Luton has just been granted a significant piece of additional airspace that resolved a known bottleneck - and (would you believe it?) the number of movements then increases.
Surely this growth in numbers was inevitable, and possibly (at least in part) its intended purpose.
Why is everyone acting so surprised?"

The new airspace does not facilitate an increase in movements, what it does do, is simply to preserve safety, because you must be well aware, the previous inbound route off the STAR interacted with the CPT SID directly above Luton airport?

Antilla, could you please in detail explain how the additional airspace has facilitated an increase in movements please, I for one would be keen to read and learn?

The recent growth at Luton would have occurred regardless of the introduction of the additional airspace to the north west of the airport, so would the 'risk' of incidents close to the airport overhead. Believe me, if Luton wanted extra airspace to facilitate projected growth, its request would have been thrown out on day 1 by the CAA! Antilla, trust me, the CAA will not allow this on a local basis, thus the extreme difficulty in obtaining additional controlled airspace by UK airports.

[antilla]

Hang on, Buster! I never claimed that the new airspace actually facilitated the increase in movements! I merely observed that there was a lot of excitement about record numbers of planes - and wondered why this should be so surprising if the new airspace had just resolved a known bottleneck.

I understood that the traditional approach over the airport was causing headaches for ATC at busy times, and that the new route would be safer because it reduced their workload and the possibility of error.

Was this not the case? :confused:

[Buster the Bear]

The interaction between inbounds and outbounds has been reduced, but the north bound Olney and the Compton SID's do still interact with inbounds. A complete redesign which is being progressed for the entite London TMA should reduce this hopefully, but this is a few years off.

Istanbul 3 weekly from July 1st 2006 initially, just confimed.

Keeping a low profile, must hide from ebenezer as he might have sent the poachers out!

[andyafc]

On helvetic's website you cant book anymore dates so looks pretty obvious that they have pulled the route, didnt have very good loads and they look to have taken there toll

[22/04]

Buster

Yes I am aware that for some time now Luton Approach has been at West Drayton. My comments stand.

[Powerjet1]

Came back through LTN a few hours ago after being away for several days and noticed the 'constructers base' had been assembled on the perimeter of the mid-term carpark. So work has now finally started on the construction of the new dual carriageway link road from jct 10 of the M1 into the airport. Only about 3/4 years late!!!.

There also seems to be 'diggers' doing work in the short-term carpark, in what was the disabled parking area. Anyone know what is going on there ?.

Istanbul 3 weekly from July 1st 2006 initially, just confimed.

Still does not seem possible to book on the easy website.

[ebenezer]

I regularly go to LTN - to witness a drop-off zone PACKED with parked, unattended cars. WHY? WHO - WHAT - WHY???
Because road traffic management and control (police, traffic wardens & LLAO security) at LTN is a complete JOKE. Every day, several parked and/or abandoned vehicles ranging from cars to small vans, not just outside the terminal but also on the roads adjacent to the central terminal area's roundabout. Whilst some contain dodgy-looking drivers, many are empty. Just how this complies with the DfT's security at airports requirements is beyond me! There appears to be complete and utter inertia on this issue by the responsible authorities/agencies.
:ugh: :rolleyes:
Thats why I fly from STN, BHX & LGW. First flight out in the early hours and you can get to all 3 from Luton within an hour.
How interesting... Please explain how you (legally) even in the early hours, cover the 72.2 miles between Luton and Gatwick Airport or the 79.1 miles between Luton and Birmingham Airport "...within an hour". Yes I know that it's possible to drive almost entirely on motorways, but I assume that (a) you don't actually live in a duct under the M1 at Junction 10 or 11, and that (b) your speed drops slightly below 70mph as you negotiate the respective airports' roads...? :rolleyes:

[carbootking]

the best time iv done stn to ltn was 45 mins cross country normally its 1 15 mins that was a few years ago though when i was chauffering i think the hostie was shocked as 1 minute she was accusing me off being lost then the next saying how good i was.

[CAP493]

Luton is almost at the point of turning business away. In fact some one off cargo flights have been turned away before the runway resurfacing work started when the airport was open 24 hours. The airport is creaking with so many issues that need addressing that it is hard to tell what will give way first. The worrying thing is that there appears to be no urgency in the airport submitting plans for phase one expansion. Even if plans were published today it could well be a year before work is started and 2 years before the fruits of any work could be felt.
Not sure if it's connected, but last week a group of AENA's senior executives were on-site at Luton taking stock of the existing facilities (airside/landside/roadside). This was a fairly short-notice visit possibly caused by the fact that (as LTNman quite rightly says) LTN is now having to turn business away during the three or four peak periods each day, not because of a lack of runway slots (although for July and September, some of the hours are now fully subscribed) but because of a lack of parking stands.

A well-placed 'source' says that the news that AENA's premier UK operation is actually turning away business did not go down awfully well in Madrid, even though local (i.e. LTN) management is under pressure from their Spanish bosses to actually cut back on capital expenditure, despite an urgent need to pour more concrete.

Rumour is that AENA might now adopt a more flexible attitude over this, but that the remaining length of the Concession is also a sticking point to be overcome.

;)

[LTNman]

Something has clearly changed since the grand announcement of expansion at LTN a few months back. The phase one plan should have been finalised, published and sent for planning permission weeks ago yet there is nothing to be seen.

The concession has been running for several years now but as each year passes the potential return on new investment decreases as the remaining years tick by. No company is going to spend vast amounts of new money on new infrastructure only to see it potentially handed over to another company before a return on the investment has been made.

Lets not forget that the runway resurfacing work has cost around £17 million so money is being spent at Luton although in this case the operating company had no choice but to spend the money.

[ebenezer]

The concession has been running for several years now but as each year passes the potential return on new investment decreases as the remaining years tick by. No company is going to spend vast amounts of new money on new infrastructure only to see it potentially handed over to another company before a return on the investment has been made.
Quite correct! It's rumoured that ACDL wants a significant extension to the Concession term but there are legal issues that complicate matters. ACDL is quite prepared to invest heavily in its 'new airport' proposal as this could ultimately, become a totally separate operation from the existing (i.e. old) site (a fact that's not escaped the attention of Luton Council, which is very concerned at the prosect of losing the 'unearned income' it presently receives).

But the hot rumour is that significant additional expenditure on the existing site of the amounts required to maintain and expand ACDL's business, is not now favoured unless the Concession can be extended.

Watch this space!!

:ooh:

[LTNman]

There will be clues to what is going on by looking to see what happens in the fenced off section in the short-term car park. The wooden posts and car hire parking bay signs have all been dug up. Also the areas around some drains and gullies have received some attention from a JCB. If the car park gets a new layer of tarmac then one could surmise that a new apron here is not going to happen.

At 6 am this morning airliners occupied every stand on the main, north and eastern aprons. The north west corner had executive jets parked 5 deep with the Signature hanger looking full to the brim. There was a little spare capacity on the south apron for a few more private jets but the days of growth at LTN must be coming to an end for the next few years.

[carbootking]

how many aircraft can park overnight at luton ?

[LTNman]

Passenger aircraft stands

Main apron, 12 walk on, 7 bussed = 19
North apron, 5 walk on
Eastern apron, 3 walk on 3 bussed = 6

Total 30 stands.

Cargo

5 stands

Executive jet stands

Main apron

North west corner, around 15 executive jets
Stand 16 around 13 executive jets
Stand 54 around 6 executive jets

South apron, around 12 executive jets
Harrods new apron, around 8 executive jets

Total around 54

Grand total around 85 aircraft excluding what is parked in Luton’s extensive hangarage

[Buster the Bear]

I can fully understand the need to commit to a longer concession term prior to investing massively to upgrade the infrastructure

Hopefully LBC will look long and hard at the options available to it, then back a decision, which might not necessarily be in the long term interests of its asset (the airport), such is the potential short life span of a locally elected politician!

Like him or not, Lord McKenzie made a good deal for the town of Luton, I assume an extension in any contract term might not reward the council/the town as handsomely as the current which is where the negotiations could stumble.

LBC face a choice, retain their airport 'as is', or take a long term view? A successful airport generates massive local income and wealth. Don't forget, another option would be to sell up, take £millions which in the short term would do the local politicians no harm at all!

[LTNman]

I see that https://www.online-coordination.com/Default.aspx?tabid=AvailWeek is showing no slots available for next Saturday between 22:00 and 23:00 and only one spare slot for the same time period for Friday.

A lack of a full length parallel taxiway is starting to bite then?

[Buster the Bear]

Hardly surprising LTNman, what kicks off at 16:00 local on Saturday?

[Powerjet1]

There will be clues to what is going on by looking to see what happens in the fenced off section in the short-term car park. The wooden posts and car hire parking bay signs have all been dug up. Also the areas around some drains and gullies have received some attention from a JCB. If the car park gets a new layer of tarmac then one could surmise that a new apron here is not going to happen.
Arrived back into LTN at 2315 yesterday, and had to walk past the fenced off area on my way to my car in the short-term carpark. New tarmac was being laid and rolled as I walked past, so maybe LTNman, you are right about no new apron being constructed in this area, in the near future.

[OpsSix]

How interesting... Please explain how you (legally) even in the early hours, cover the 72.2 miles between Luton and Gatwick Airport or the 79.1 miles between Luton and Birmingham Airport "...within an hour". Yes I know that it's possible to drive almost entirely on motorways, but I assume that (a) you don't actually live in a duct under the M1 at Junction 10 or 11, and that (b) your speed drops slightly below 70mph as you negotiate the respective airports' roads...? :rolleyes:

Nope I don't live under the M1, yes I slow down once I reach the respective airport and I didn't mention anything about being legal ;)

In fact, last time I did LTN-LGW, I drove at 70-80 most of the way and completed the route in apx 50mins. STN, LCY and BHX are much the same.

[LTNman]

.
Arrived back into LTN at 2315 yesterday, and had to walk past the fenced off area on my way to my car in the short-term carpark. New tarmac was being laid and rolled as I walked past, so maybe LTNman, you are right about no new apron being constructed in this area, in the near future.

I’m staggered, part of the fenced off area finishes well inside where the new apron should be. Maybe it is the case that there just isn’t the room for a new apron, expanded terminal and a multi story car park in the central area. So what does this all mean then for phase 1 expansion? Maybe there will be no phase 1 expansion and we will have to wait 6-8 years for the airport to expand south of the runway.

Looks like the airport could be facing indefinite zero growth.

[Powerjet1]

LTNman

The area which had new tarmac laid and was being worked on last night, extended from the front, ie, by the predestrian walkway/screen, to about 60/70 yds into the carpark. My initial impression was perhaps the area was going to used as an additional drop-off zone or some other improvement to increase traffic flow in the CTA, but now i'm not so sure. Infact, it looked just like a simple new tarmac layer onto what was the disabled parking area. It may be just that simple, who knows?.

[Buster the Bear]

Is this news, I honestly cannot remember if this has been released before:

Wizz Air Ltd., a low-cost carrier in eastern Europe, said it will add 28 flights a week between three Romanian cities and five western European destinations including London and Rome next month and in January 2007. Closely held Wizz Air, which has bases in Hungary and Poland, will inaugurate its first Romanian destination July 14, with three weekly flights between Budapest and Tirgu Mures (Marosvásárhely) in central Romania, the company said today in an e-mailed statement. Wizz Air will introduce most of its flights to and from Bucharest and Arad, Romania, as well as Tirgu Mures, on Jan. 15, 2007. Romania is hoping to join the European Union that month. Romania is becoming increasingly attractive to low-cost airlines as hundreds of thousands of its workers are seeking fast and cheap transportation to EU-member countries such as Spain, Italy and Germany. Romania, a nation of 22 million, will have to fully comply with European Union airline industry competition rules once it joins the EU. The other destinations Wizz Air plans to add are Barcelona, Spain, Rome, Milan, London and Dortmund, Germany. Most destinations are served by three flights a week, while there will be four flights a week between Bucharest and Rome, Wizz Air said. In Romania, Wizz Air's main competitors besides Romanian national carrier Tarom SA and other international airlines flying to the country are low-cost carriers such as closely held Romanian carrier Blue Air and SkyEurope Airlines AS. MALÉV for example started flights to some Romanian destinations this year, such as Tirgu Mures and Cluj Napoca (Kolozsvár), but they have also got flights to Bucharest and Constanta. (Bloomberg, MALÉV)

[Powerjet1]

Had been rumoured last month. Wizz will start thrice weekly flights between Luton & Bucharest on 16 Jan 07. Expected to go 5 x weekly from end of Mar 07.

Also, despite Aer Arran saying the LTN-IOM service was to finish on the 1 Oct for the winter, it now seems to have a daily evening flight in the booking engine throughout the winter period, for this route.

[King Pong]

The area which had new tarmac laid and was being worked on last night, extended from the front, ie, by the predestrian walkway/screen, to about 60/70 yds into the carpark. My initial impression was perhaps the area was going to used as an additional drop-off zone or some other improvement to increase traffic flow in the CTA, but now i'm not so sure. Infact, it looked just like a simple new tarmac layer onto what was the disabled parking area. It may be just that simple, who knows?.

Seeing that the runway has now been resurfaced the resurfacing gang have turned their night shift attention to the short-term car park. They will also resurface a small strip in the staff car park before the end of the month.

It is ironic after years of moaning about the state of the short term car park I am now disappointed to see it being resurfaced as it does not look like a new apron will be built here. It might just be the case that as the guys are getting paid anyway they might as well do something particularly if there is surplus material.

Someone here must know what is going on???

[PAXboy]

Hardly surprising LTNman, what kicks off at 16:00 local on Saturday? I don't know, Buster - what does?

I'm not being deliberately obtuse, since the World Cup and Wimbeldon are already running, I really have no idea what starts on Saturday?

[22/04]

Having avidly watched LTN traffic for years, I am amazed at the number of inersection departures from 08/bravo. Never seen it before yet in my last 2 visits seen, Easy 733s, 73NGs, and FR 738s doing it. Is this commercial pressure or is here another reason?

[Pain in the R's]

Electing to depart from the 08 intersection reduces the available runway length to around 5,600ft making it one of the shortest take off runs at a major UK airport. Fine if the aircraft has the performance, not so good if the take off run has to be abandoned. One day it will all end in tears! http://doug3658.fotopic.net/p12346425.html

Paxboy England plays that day at 16:00

[LTNman]

easyJet routes starting this week

29 June 2006 London Luton to Bordeaux
29 June 2006 London Luton to Istanbul *
29 June 2006 London Luton to Rimini
30 June 2006 London Luton to Rijeka

* subject to approval

[vintage ATCO]

Pain in the R's

The photo is hardly relevant. The DC-7C was landing, not departing. The reverse pitch failed to select and so the acft accelerated when 'reverse' power was applied. It was badly damaged because of the terrain at the end of the runway, something that was remedied soon after by the construction of a RESA.

I am sure the relevant accelerate-stop distances are checked.

[Pain in the R's]

I am sure the relevant accelerate-stop distances are checked.

May be so but given the choice would you prefer a 7,000 ft runway or a 5,600 ft runway if your take off run was aborted late.

[vintage ATCO]

Do you know what V1 is? :rolleyes:

[Pain in the R's]

Do you know what V1 is? :rolleyes:

Yes the point where you can safely stop so 1400ft of extra runway means that the V1 point is longer in the take off run so it must be safer. Next question please:ok:

[Daft bat]

Vintage ATCO I think your being a bit picky here, the photograph that pain in the R's published was an example of what can happen if an airliner was to run out of the hardstuff. The point is that if Pain in the R's was to be right about commercial pressure forcing pilots to cut their safety margins (which I doubt),is this good aviating. I would say not and the greater area of safety has to be a good for everybody. Presure on slot time's being made is essintial when your running an outfit with so many legs in a day.lets' hope pilots keep getting thier maths right and everybody equals the safe landing's to the takeoff's :ok:

[antilla]

Put it another way - if 5,600 ft is sufficient runway for safe operations on a regular basis, why is anyone proposing to extend the current 7,000ft runway?
Surely, that would just be an unnecessary expense.

Presumably someone somewhere thinks that it is needed - does anyone know why?

[Buster the Bear]

You can take the argument even further, as Stansted as an infinitely longer runway than Luton, are the airlines being unsafe by choosing to use Luton? Of course not!

No one is forcing the crew to depart from the intersection and the reduced length takes into consideration the stopping distance required. Remember, the jets that take it form the intersection are unlikely to be full of fuel and pax, so lighter and quicker to stop?

[King Pong]

Had a look at the new black top in the short term car park tonight. This is a grade 1 job and looks like it has been laid for the long term unlike the sprayed gravel it has replaced.

So what does this mean then for phase 1? I can’t see the airport digging the stuff up next year for a new apron. Has phase 1 been abandoned then? It might explain why the plan has not been released.

The new M&S Simply Food store has passed all expectations. M&S were expecting a turnover of £5,000 to £7000 a day but the shop is taking over £10,000 a day with long queues at its 5 checkouts

[Powerjet1]

Certainly, the delay in releasing the Final Master Plan and the action taken above, does not bode well. An email enquiry to the Project 30 team about this, produced a "No Comment" response. Surely though, some additional stand space must be produced in the short term, as it makes no commercial sense for the airport to effectively "shut up shop" and keep turning business away. Assuming Silverjet takes to the skies at the end of the year, where will their initial 2 x 767s go?, with more to follow we are led to believe, let alone anything else.

Perhaps things have changed from the original draft MP, but something must happen surely.

[King Pong]

Airport management has gone into denial. Last night the traffic queue into the airport started again at the A505. Yet apart from putting up new signs they refuse to move on parked cars containing their drivers in the drop off zone.

[Powerjet1]

Istanbul still does not have approval from the Turkish authorities so did not operate today but Bordeaux & Rimini are, with Rijeka starting tomorrow.

Snippet from the easy website:-

"These services bring the total number of easyJet daily departures from Luton Airport to 98, with passenger numbers soaring to more than 5 million expected over the coming year".

Also stated that easy are committed to further expansion at the airport. However, quite where they will put the aircraft if no new apron stands are built soon is a mystery. Does easy now have 17 or 18 based aircraft at Luton?. 19 was meant to be the total by September.

[Buster the Bear]

easyJet will operate 3 night flights to Istanbul within the next 7 days, then nothing for the remainder of July allegedly?

[King Pong]

Today marks the last day of 4 months of nighttime runway closures when phase 1 of the runway repair program comes to an end. With the runway only Cat 1 since March 1st it is amazing that Luton has basically got away with it being fog free apart from an odd hour here and there. Who says Luton is a foggy airport:ok:

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Can anyone please confirm if the full lighting is now in place on "26" and that full Cat 3b approaches are now possible?

[ezpz]

Also stated that easy are committed to further expansion at the airport. However, quite where they will put the aircraft if no new apron stands are built soon is a mystery.

Rumours are going around that new aircraft will not overnight in Luton, but will operate with LTN crew nightstopping away from base. Don't know how true the rumour is, but it has happened before 2 years ago when we were operating a virtual base in NCE. 3 LTN based a/c were overnighting in Nice.

[22/04]

Is there not room to squeeze a little more capacity overinght by towing a/c for example to the engine run up area off taxiway alpha (or does this not exist now). it also irks me as pax that the South Apron cannot be reclaimed for ailine traffic, bt I guess the bizjets ar just too lucrative- Wasn't there a plan to do this once.

[Powerjet1]

easyJet will operate 3 night flights to Istanbul within the next 7 days, then nothing for the remainder of July allegedly?
See EZY2384 from Istanbul is due into LTN at 0620 today. Is this to assist some of the pax that may have booked the route prior to it being "temporarily suspended" due to the problem with the Turkish authorities ?

[LTNman]

Can anyone please confirm if the full lighting is now in place on "26" and that full Cat 3b approaches are now possible?

The Notams are reporting no issues with lighting now so I guess LTN is back to Cat 3b

22/04 it also irks me as pax that the South Apron cannot be reclaimed for ailine traffic, but I guess the bizjets are just too lucrative- Wasn't there a plan to do this once.

There were lots of plans a few months ago but despite the airport bulging at the seams the urgency has gone.

[Bumz_Rush]

The comments that exec aircraft should be replaced on the southern apron by airliners, is very short sighted.

Firstly until EasiJet own Luton, then I assume all users are almost equal.

Secondly, for a given apron space, I wonder just what revenue is generated by a "discounted" Easi parked aircraft, compared to the 3 or 4 execs that could take up the same space.

Bumz

[Powerjet1]

I wonder just what revenue is generated by a "discounted" Easi parked aircraft, compared to the 3 or 4 execs that could take up the same space.
Good point. LLAO's love affair with the exec jet sector just seems to get stronger & stronger. It's not going to go away in the short term at least.

Out of curiosity, hypothetically speaking, if there were no exec aircraft on the ramps at LTN, how many parking spaces would the airport gain in total, for aircraft, say of 737 size, eight to ten or more ?.

[ebenezer]

Electing to depart from the 08 intersection reduces the available runway length to around 5,600ft making it one of the shortest take off runs at a major UK airport. Fine if the aircraft has the performance, not so good if the take off run has to be abandoned.
The actual TOR/ASDA is 1685mts and crews using this distance are carrying-out a 'balanced field take-off' on the basis of aircraft weight/outside air temperature/surface wind. It's not illegal, it's not dangerous and crews are not being 'pressurised' - if the aircraft can't meet the required take-off and accelerate-stop distance performance, then they won't take it from this intersection. Southampton for example, with (on runway 20) a TOR of 1650mts and (on Runway 02) a TOR of 1723mts handles 737s and the occasional 757, the former ranging down to the Balearics and (until the service transferred to Bournemouth) Germany, with only the occasional en-route refuelling stop.

The proposals to extend the existing runway at LTN to 2500mts are to accommodate long-haul IT flights non-stop to places such as the US West Coast. However, with aircraft such as the Boeing 787 coming on stream in the next fews years, this need may evapourate as this aircraft (as with similar genre) has a full payload range of around 5000 miles off a +/- 2000mts runway.

The reason that more aircraft can now do it (except perhaps when the temperature is up at +30!) is the much improved power of modern turbofan engines and the fact that most operaters use derated power on take-off anyway, to extend engine life. It's therefore possible to see that perhaps each airframe is now approved for a limited number of max power take-offs per XX000's hours engine life, and Luton is one location where this is being done.

As for Project 2030 - try asking LBC wot's up (they're the culprits...)

;) :)

[Buster the Bear]

I was always under the impression that Biz Jets generate good profits for Luton as you do not need expensive infrastructure to support them like car parks, tinminals, road improvements etc, they just make use of resources already in place?

During the early 1990's Luton was making £2m clear profit per annum from this type of operation, one has to assume that the profit margin with inflation and the massive increase in this type of business has only proportionally increased?

AND........no concession charge to Luton Borough Council! From a commercial stand point, the executive market is tremendously lucrative. I wonder what the profit margin is between a BBJ paying full whack to land and park,compared to a full Ryanair 737-800 flight once you take into consideration the fixed overheads to provide the low rent facilities on offer to passengers at Luton?

The facilities being provided by TAG at Farnborough seem support my theory that there are good profits to be made from the executive market? No wonder then ACDL wish to extend the length of the concession in order to pay for the multi £m investment required to take Luton to the next level of passenger growth.

How about clearing the East Apron of airliners and encouraging more business jets, one loser for sure here would be LBC and their concession charge!

Until London gets a replacement 24 hours business jets airfield, Luton is in a very strong position to increase its dominance within this market and increase its charges accordingly as this is not such a price sensitive market.

You could question whether it is worth Luton touting for more based low cost business simply due to the cost of providing additional facilities?

Controversial? Worth a debate though?

[CAP493]

You could question whether it is worth Luton touting for more based low cost business simply due to the cost of providing additional facilities?

A very valid point Buster, and one that's not lost on the Madrid-based management of ACDL or on the incumbents slumbering in Luton's Town Hall.

The fact is that despite the touchingly benevolent attitude towards Luton Borough Council (LBC) that you and others take, since the days of Lorraine Chase it's been an absolute Albatros around LTN's neck simply because of the paraochial short-term approach that LBC has always taken - and continues to take despite now having a major international multi-million £ company running its airport.

Even though the corporate market is highly lucrative and good business for ACDL, if LBC fails to take a long-term business-like attitude towards LTN in its entirity - and particularly its development potential (which means thinking 'outside the box' and embracing Project 2030) - in 25 years time when the current Concession has expired and with STN having a second runway (= less slot constraints) and further improved facilities, LTN will if it's lucky, resemble Southend (once busier than even LGW) and if it's unlucky, will resemble Lydd.

LBC's 'golden goose' will be effectively dead, and the millions creamed-off lost in various half-baked trendy left-wing projects and initiatives, with nothing left to show for it. The hapless citizens of Luton in 2030 will then be left paying higher council tax whilst dreaming about what was and what might have been.

:{ :ugh: :(

Can anyone please confirm if the full lighting is now in place on "26" and that full Cat 3b approaches are now possible?

LTN is now fully Category 3b on both runways 08 and 26, and will remain so.

:ok:

[King Pong]

LTN is now fully Category 3b on both runways 08 and 26, and will remain so.
:ok:

What's left to do in phase 2 come October?

[CAP493]

Just some drainage repair/reconstruction work plus the construction of some under-runway 'services' ducts (for which apparently, a remotely controlled boring 'mole' is used). Likelihood is that the runway will reopen full H24 much sooner than originally planned - which is what the cargo side of LLAO's business is hoping.

Happily this LTN project has actually run extremely smoothly and has been completed sarisfactorily on budget, ahead of time. All parties are to be congratulated.

:ok: :D :D :D :ok:

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Thanks CAP493 - excellent news indeed.

[King Pong]

I see at the start of week 3 that staggering progress is being made on the new airport link road to the M1. Yes some cones have been placed by the side of the road.

[Powerjet1]

As I understand it, major constrction works begin around the third week of July, when work also starts on construction on three out of four bridges, including the Airport Way road bridge. Mainly minor things happening up until then. Come August, when things are in full swing, chaos will be the order of the day, for pax trying to get to the airport for the school summer hols.

[King Pong]

Come August, when things are in full swing, chaos will be the order of the day, for pax trying to get to the airport for the school summer hols.

I think that anyone living say in Watford which is only 16 miles down the M1 would need to allow 2 hours travelling time to get to the terminal on a Friday for say 7pm. That breaks down as just over an hour on the M1, say 20 minutes from the M1 to the bottom of the approach road and half an hour to travel the last mile into the airport. Average speed around 8 mph. :mad:

It looks like the mid term carpark is getting a new enterance.

[Powerjet1]

It looks like the mid term carpark is getting a new enterance
I surpose it has to, as the new dual carriageway will basically finish at the existing entrance, with a much larger roundabout being built by the hotels.

KP. Like your comment about how it could take 30 mins to do the last mile into the airport. Sometimes, that might even be a conservative figure!!!!

Can anyone tell me if the new batch of 10 check-in desks built recently where the old outsize baggage drop used to be, are in regular use now, or are they not being used. Can't say I have noticed the 2/3 times I have passed through the airport in the last month.

[King Pong]

KP.
Can anyone tell me if the new batch of 10 check-in desks built recently where the old outsize baggage drop used to be, are in regular use now, or are they not being used. Can't say I have noticed the 2/3 times I have passed through the airport in the last month.

No they are not in use. The new desks will facilitate new technology, accommodate the introduction of home check in facilities and incorporate a quick baggage drop off. Three double checking desks positioned throughout desks 1-60 are to be taken out of service and used as ticketing desks not check in desks.

[LTNman]

Monarch are rumoured to be announcing Luton expansion today.

Easyjet are looking at starting services to Israel but not necessarily from Luton

[Powerjet1]

Monarch are rumoured to be announcing Luton expansion today
Almeria & Ibiza, plus big increase on existing routes for S07.

[LTNman]

As I understand it, major constrction works begin around the third week of July, when work also starts on construction on three out of four bridges, including the Airport Way road bridge. .

Interested to know more about the 4th bridge as I think there will be only 3. There will be a bridge over the A505, another over the railway and the last one over the road to Wheathampsted.

[Powerjet1]

LTNMan

Lower Harpenden Road Bridge
A505 Railway Bridge
Airport Way Slip Road Bridge
Park Street Bridge

[LTNman]

Park Street Bridge

Ah forgot about that one.

[Buster the Bear]

Monarch to announce an additional based A320 for summer 07, increased frequencies and new destinations.

[LTNman]

04/07/2006
£30 million investment for Monarch at London Luton Airport

- New aircraft and more routes as Monarch expands services -

Monarch is to boost its presence at its home base, London Luton Airport, with the addition of new aircraft and the introduction of new routes.

From 01 May 2007, the airline will open new routes from London to Ibiza and Almeria, as well as adding new daily services to Faro and Palma. A new Airbus A320 will be added to the Luton based fleet - an investment of £30 million and with it, 50 new jobs will be created for pilots, cabin crew and ground support staff, adding to the 1100 already employed by the Monarch Group at Luton.

Highlights for the Summer 2007 schedule include:

Ibiza ***New Route*** up to five flights per week

Almeria ***New Route*** four flights per week

Palma - increases from one flight to nine flights per week

Faro - increases from five flights per week to a daily service

Commenting on the expansion at Luton, managing director of Monarch's scheduled services, Tim Jeans said, "Luton has been Monarch's home base for almost 40 years and our expansion here is good news

Monarch will operate the following scheduled services from Luton for Summer 2007:

Ibiza - new route, operating on Monday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday from 24 May

Almeria - new route, operating on Monday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday from 03 May

Palma - increases to nine flights per week

Faro - increases to daily

Alicante - daily service

Gibraltar - daily service

Gran Canaria - one flight per week

Lanzarote - one flight per week

Malaga - increasing to 13 flights per week

Menorca - 4 flights per week

Tenerife - 5 flights per week

[King Pong]

A new Airbus A320 will be added to the Luton based fleet

So where is this aircraft going to park overnight then?

[Powerjet1]

Decent expansion by Monarch at LTN for S07. Substantial increase in freq on existing routes plus the two new routes of Valencia & Ibiza. Winter flights to Lanzarote & other routes, much more freq for W06/07 compared to W05.

About time too.

[TartinTon]

In front of the hanger you own.......

[King Pong]

In front of the hanger you own.......

The stands on the hangar line are already occupied most nights

[forest]

How about?
Park them in the hangers, open the doors am and push them out when u can.
first one back at night gets towed straight in after unloading! Only an idea?

Or park on the centre line of east apron overnight?

Back from my beach for a while, still lots of nothing going on!!