What jobs are you doing whilst waiting for that first flying job?

[Superpilot]

Hi all,

Tought this topic might be interesting.... What sorts of jobs are all you trainee and qualified (f)ATPL's doing whilst waiting for your first flying job, and secondly do you enjoy it! :}

Me:

24, Network Admin, London's West End, It's OK I suppose.

[An2]

Senior(=old) Test Engineer with a european car manufacturor. Sick of it.

[richarjm]

I'm working on a boat in the middle of the North Sea in the oil and gas industry. It's like being on a cruise except you have to do a 12 hour shift every day. It is curing my debts quicky though. Every day I look at the sky wishing I was flying. 26 years old

[flybyshark]

I worked for a HR company that services BAe, got me into the flying club at Blackpool which is fantastic.

Also pursued Ops jobs at first choice and MyTravel (jobs going there now I hear) as the inside route works a treat.

got a flight job abroad now though, but would have continued in the job I had as it was a good ocnnection point for jobs out of Blackpool and elsewhere, networking can be fun.

I would seriously chase down any ops jobs, be it in small operations or airlines. Practically everyone I know that went down this route came good within 18 months. Sounds long, but it keeps you in the game and its too easy to drop out of it.

[S.71]

Great idea for a thread!

I worked previously in various ground handling jobs, while doing a BSc and PPL, during my integrated flying training did my MBA and am now getting some hands on corporate experience in a European airline. I got the job towards the end of my flight training and am very happy with what I am doing. (except for the hourly reminders of how much I wish I was flying the aircraft!)

To anyone doing their flying training, keep the business studies in mind - without opening another major "Pilot's with university degree's" discussion, I have found it incredibly interesting.

Otherwise - I thoroughly enjoyed loading, cleaning, checking-in, dispatching, boarding and the whole lot back when I did my PPL - I found the experience gave the extra motivation to put everything possible into my flight training.

Received the licence a fortnight ago, Cv's on the way out as of last week - wish me luck!
:D s.71

[Longchop]

I have my flying job now and have had for over a year now.


During and after my training i worked on the ground as a dispatcher for a ground handling company 'oop norf'.

Believe it or not i got my job with an airline i used to handle for...........would you believe that?:}

[andi1234]

throughout the flying training?

Dairy farm in NZ, petrol station, insurance comapany, kitchen, online gambling agency and then back into the kitchen.

nice thread

Andy

[Atomic Rooster]

Working 4 days a week, no hassles, and being paid the equivalent of a decent captains salary !!! ........... and beginning to question my sanity :hmm:

....still looking though ;)

[EGCC4284]

CPL/IR October 2005 with 400 hours total. Aged 38. Currently an aircraft refueller at Manchester. Networking is an everyday occurrence when meeting pilots all day long.
My contact list is coming on a treat. Hoping to get a break this year.

Network, network, network. Get a job on the ramp is my advice.

Dropped a few CV's off today for internal post. Half the battle is knowing exactly who deals with recruitment. Then find out their e-mail address and then you have a chance of making contact.
A good CV layout on good quality paper is also a good idea.

The number of nice dear John letters that I have received from jet operators who say that they will keep my CV on file and for me to keep in touch, all because of my CV layout. And that's with me being 38 and having only 400 hours. If you have spent thousands on training, then a little bit more to get your CV up to scratch is worth the cash.

Advice on where I got mine done to anyone who PM's me. (PP) :ok:

[tschierv]

Burying dead cows with an antiquated caterpillar-bulldozer in the middle of Indiana, pretty smelly job :yuk: !
Thereafter as check-in agent, then PANS-OPS for a major airport (very nice & well paid, good networking). Now happily flying freight and not complaining!

[richiya]

26 years old, 600 hours, currently at university building up the debt even higher:{

Worked in a cinema making popcorn, then selling suits, translation work, and now 20 hours a week in a clothes shop while finishing off my degree, see what the summer brings!!!

[GeeWiz]

22 yrs old, worked at a paper shop since 15yrs old, and still there. Guess it pays enough to buy new charts :ugh:

Meanwhile worked many temporary/casual jobs such as factory hand, door to door, and in Insurance company for 2yrs.

Instructing voluntarily! :O

[FougaMagister]

Superpilot - first, just WAITING for that first job is the wrong way to go! You have to make it come your way.

Secondly, there is no substitute to working in the aviation industry or on an airport to make connections and do intensive networking. Quite frankly, sending CVs and waiting for a positive answer just doesn't work anymore. Airlines receive litterally HUNDREDS of CVs every day, so the only way in is to be recommended or to get to know the right person(s). I'm sorry to say, it won't happen unless you keep working in the aviation industry in some capacity. I've sent over 350 CVs over 3 years with no luck and it's only through networking that I now see some light at the end of the tunnel.

CVs are even more of a waste of time, paper and postage now that an increasing number of airlines have on-line application forms.

(CPL/IR, 440 hrs, Flight Dispatcher).

Cheers :cool:

[Lee Frost]

c250 hours fATPL, flight dispatcher. Good opportunity to meet crews, but poor pay & conditions.

One bonus is the amount of background knowledge you learn about the operation of an airport....possibly seen as quite a useful edge.

Not viable on a long term basis, unless you have some other means of income or support.

:)


LF

[markflyer6580]

Washing cars,which is bad enough on its own-below minimum wage,covered in chemicals all day cleaning up after lazy b@stards who probably don't wash themselves!
What makes it worse is having to deal with car sales men all day:mad:

I get to finish early and go flying though!:ok:

[papazulu]

Worked in the transportation & logistic business: full of nuts, screaming and depressed birds and rushing 8 to 10 hrs a day for peanuts or...less.
Debts are almost sorted but MCC is still missing so it won't be long before I go to the bank on my knees :bored: .

Something in sight as FI and other free flying (free of revenue too!) but I won't bet a penny before I have hands on it.

For the time being, anything that keep the cash flowing, no matter how much. Still, I completely agree that CV bombing is an almost useless practice: networking is the key.

Wish U all the best

PZ:ok:

[INSIDEVIEW]

Well ..im 31 ..1100 hours ..FAA JAA CPL ATPL CFI (well i gues everything)
no jet hours ..finished conversion 1 week ago ..will start in 3 weeks in china as flight instructor ..after that 747 ..what else !!!

[CaptainKC]

I'm selling mortgages if anyone want finance or equity relaease for funding the lot ppl to ATPL TR etc give me a shout excellent rates

[WindSheer]

Some good points there!!

Working at an airport will also give you an insight into the ridiculous times of day you have to peel yourselves away from the mattress! Getting up at 0300 is a different ball game to rising around 5 ish!!

All the best guys:ok:

[airpilot]

Gotta stick with guys and girls cos sooner or later something will stick hard and firm.

I've been driving coaches,lorries and pulling BT cable for brother in law. At the weekends I'm either instructing or examining to keep current. Have around 1200hrs 32yrs old and if nothing else I've been networking quite well this yr so far.

[tudeski2004]

28 years old, and still a police officer. Great job to do until I finish training and get my first job. Wont give up 'till I do:O

[airpilot]

Hey tudeski, I used to be old bill. Left nearly 7yrs ago. Hang in there mate its all worth it.

[expedite08]

Airpilot, Tudeski2004

How did you find it in the Police? Did you do your training whilst still in?? Looking to go down that route myself, getting the training done and then maybe instructing on days off etc.

Feel free to PM me

Expedite

:ok:

[Maude Charlee]

Worked part time as a dispatcher, and luckily also part time in a GA job which just about kept the hours tickling along - albeit S/E VFR.

Money was very poor, but the hours are exactly what you'll work on the line, and you make some very useful contacts. May not seem like it at the time if they can't get you that first job, but this is a very small industry, and you'll be amazed how often the same faces pop up later in your career.

If you can afford to scrape a living working airside, do it.

[airpilot]

expedite,

I left the job then started all my training. Was doing jobs inbetween flying.

All the best

[FougaMagister]

I'll second what Maude Charlee and Wind Sheer wrote re. airside jobs - and dispatch in particular; to say nothing of all the useful things you'll learn about an airline's operation (and that some other pilots don't really have a clue about).

Very positive, except of course the early starts - talking of which I have to get up at 0400 again :{ , so nite nite!

Cheers :zzz:

[ConcreteFloater]

I have had my licence since December last year. Sent off a whole batch of CVs to anyone with at least half an aircraft! I then started looking for some other aviation-related work in the meantime; flight operations dispatch etc. What I have discovered though, and heard it from the ‘horse’s mouth’ a couple of times, is that they won’t even consider me for such a position because I am a CPL.

Here is the dilemma: We know that it could take ages to get our first flying job, so in the meantime we may as well do something aviation related. Learn more about the routines and understand the workings of an airline, we all understand the logic… So to get such a job we send more CVs, we have to account for the last ‘n’ years of work and study and therefore we have to mention the fact that we are CPLs (Which in itself shows a rather serious interest in aviation). However, because we are CPLs the companies know that with the slightest whiff of a flying job we are gone! So, what are my other options? I shouldn’t lie but perhaps I needn’t mention the fact that I did any of the CPL training. Ah, but I can’t do that because to get such a job I will need security clearance and therefore have to account for the last five years of my life.

I don’t mean to sound too pessimistic, in fact I actually feel very optimistic about my whole situation. However, I would love be working for an airline, in any capacity, but I just can’t seem to get my foot in the door.

To stay on-topic; I am currently working as a ‘fashion print technician’, somewhat unusual maybe but at least it pays enough to live. If anyone has any advice on getting an airline job I would appreciate a PM. Interesting thread by-the-way.

ConcreteFloater.

[Özcan]

just got 18 years old, attending high school in sweden with PPL and working at a grocery-store on all overtime occasions i can get (working "uncomfortable schedule" gives the double pay :8 ) i've paid my PPL and got enough cash for the ATPL-theory and my parents save some extra money so that i can finish MCC without any debts that can't be paid of in a short time.

[FougaMagister]

Concrete Floater - when interviewed for Dispatch positions, I was asked if as a CPL/IR, I would leave if I got an offer of a flying job. My answer: "of course I would". The result: I had the choice of THREE handling agents on the same airport! I guess they appreciated my being frank about it.

I did the same a year before when I went for a Cabin Crew job, and guess what? I also got that job, so I really don't think it's an issue.

If they know anything about the job, the interviewers should know that as a CPL/IR holder, you know more than enough to make a very decent dispatcher providing you are willing to work hard.

My advice: don't try to hide your CPL, use it!

Cheers :cool:

[ConcreteFloater]

FougaMagister.

You have confirmed what I thought would be logical; any CPL/IR should be suited to a position as a dispatcher (assuming that he or she is willing to work hard). I agree with you, we should promote the fact that we have the licence. Honesty usually is the best policy.

ConcreteFloater

[Maude Charlee]

Trust me, most handling companies are far more desperate for you to work for them than you are to do the job. Apply, and they will take your hands off.

To be able to get their hands on an intelligent, articulate and motivated individual is a blessing in disguise. When you get on the line and see the standard of some of your dispatchers, you will weep. I know I do.

When I worked at the Circus, I was one of 3 pilots in the office (and predictably last to leave :rolleyes: ), and there were 2 others preparing to start their ATPLs. This was in a team of around 15 dispatchers.

[Permafrost_ATPL]

100% agree with Maude Charlee. Ground Handling companies struggle to find articulate people to fill the dispatcher positions. i'm guessing because they pay so badly! Anybody out there working in non-aviation related jobs should quit and go for dispachter/ops/whatever jobs where you can network. Unless of course it's financially impossible (e.g. kids).

I did dispatching for two months at LCY and got to build good relationships with training captains and ops managers at both airlines I worked with. I ended up getting hired by a different airline (put forward by my flight school, even though I was modular!), but that's another story.

By the way, for all the 'older' guys and gals out there, I'm 36, modular, and next month I get to press a TOGA button that will get two lovely CFM-56 engines to spool up! Keep at it, the market is improving every day. It'll happen. :)

P

[UP and Down Operator]

I worked on the oilrigs in the north sea with a 2 weeks on, 3 weeks off scheduele. Perfect as that pays a lot of money, and it gave me time to fly hours up when on-shore, and applying for jobs.

[Scoobster]

Hi

I couldn't help but become intrigued by what other wannabe's (in terms of current profession) are doing in order to raise/save funds for that long awaited dream??

I am in technology myself, it pays well but being bitten with the flying bug (a very very long time ago) and masses of student debt that dream still seems a long way away from a financial perspective! Desperate to get out of technology and into 'aviation' I have been looking into converting into a more professional qualification that I may have a remote passion in, such as Law but its more needless expense :mad: some say to avoid this and 'grin' and 'bear' it in the current profession and save every penny!

Aside from selling my car, laptop, mobile phone and anything apart from my 'limbs' :\ I can't help but wonder how my current profession stacks up with others..

I even thought about doing the ICAO Flight Dispatchers Certificate but without being exposed to airport operations some say its useless..

Any advice on 'suitable' extra funding/careers options would be greatly appreciated..

Cheers

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Sell the Mrs ;).

[Bobs-Your-Uncle]

sell yourself too

[Scoobster]

Sell the Mrs ;).

Lol...Now if only I had a Mrs to sell...:}

[Scoobster]

Come on folks..im serious... :} Who's doing what and is changing to another career an undoubted waste of money :ugh:

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Ok, sell your boyfriend? :)

Only joking. I would imagine it would quite difficult to change direction in order to raise cash quick, simply because it will take time to focus on a new career and change direction and get a job! I was in the aerospace engineering industry, the pay wasn't bad, but not fantastic := . So it was a question of being patient and making steady progress in saving the cash. On saying on all that there are many ways to skin a cat I guess.

Good luck with it :ok:.

[Saffer]

Cat 3, dreaming of those days at the "dam" again are we? :8

[hobbit1983]

Working as accountant/credit controller/admin dogsbody while I save to fly. Handy to have as a backup career as well.

Would probably get hit (hard) if I suggested "selling" to the Mrs ;)

[razzele]

Hi guys,


I got my fATPL 08/2005.

Worked as a FI built up 1000hrs.

Just got a job, single pilot IFR in twins and maybe some co piloting in a king air.

Should be fun in winter !

:ok:

Razzele

[wingbar]

Part time FI,

Full Time IT consultant.

[Aeropig909]

Working as a dispatcher at LHR since late 2004. Not a good airport to culture any meaningful or useful contacts and the hours will turn you cold, but the pay is ok I suppose and the work is good fun.

Looking at POTENTIALLY going out to Africa to build hours on air safari, but wondering about maintaining income to cover loans. It all comes down to the dirty dollar (again).:{

[Phenom100]

Started up a company which supports many of the major Airlines plus a few military customer, ie. RMAF RNZAF and RAFO, suppling A/C spares. Company is going from strength to strength. Have made many good contacts and will soon been looking for someone to run it whilst l go off and FLY.....

[VFE]

Worked in a call centre for two years following qualifying as CPL/IR f/ATPL whilst playing semi-pro in a blues band.

Now about to move from part-time instructing at the weekend to full-time instructing and it feels like I've won the lottery!

My motto: never have high expectations and you won't ever be disappointed in aviation. That goes for life in general too.

VFE.

[G-DAVE]

Got my fATPL issued on 08/2006.

Working for an agency driving cars on the docks. Some long hours for not great pay, but I can decide not to work in the week to go to different airports to speak to people.

Keep going seems to be the motto here!

Good luck all :ok:

[00Viggen]

Professional / Chartered Engineer in the oil and gas industry.

[mumbo]

40yr old, 700TT Part time FI and Professional Donkey Wrestler and Horse Cobbler.:confused:

Work is for poor people. I am suited to a life of leisure.:8


Best of luck to all.


Love Mumbo

[Turkish777]

Im like 'Billy Wizz' from Essex Boys, as Im a Chauffeur for a company called Essex Limos..have a guess where they're based....:}

I actually really enjoy it especially Hen nights...Its not quite an Airbus but its full of PAX....:rolleyes:

Its a bast**d to manoeuvre (left hand drive too) when reversing and whilst on little roads, my social life has vanished, the profits are miniscule, on your first 2-3 drives you have a experienced chauffeur supervising you, on your first solo mission your bricking it, no boozing prior to a drive (obviously), theres loads of waiting around, and if you prang the car your sacked...so quite good training for the Airlines I think...

In all honesty I can sit in the back and watch a DVD whilst waiting or read 'Ace to the technical pilot interview'...well if Im really bored...

Forgot to mention another thing in common with the airlines...most the PAX are pissed up as well....

[UKflyer]

Great topic! I have a nice interesting aviation job; slot coordination for most of the UK airports (did you guys know that an aircraft has a pushback slot and a ATC runway slot??! I didn't know that until i got this job!). Being in the UK, i'm disadvantaged by having a FAA CPL/IR (slightly lowers my chances than you guys of getting a job in EUR). I'm going to start the conversion process by doing the JAA ATPL's next year, so that'll keep me busy and maybe i'll find a N-reg job in the meantime!

[catswhisker]

Basic prostitution. (You're spot-on, BYU)

As has been said already, the main thing is networking.

[speedrestriction]

What sorts of jobs are all you trainee and qualified (f)ATPL's doing whilst waiting for your first flying job

Today I've mostly been filling soil in around sewerage pipes.

and secondly do you enjoy it! :}

There are worse jobs. Variety is the spice of life.

SR

[VFE]

Forgot to mention another thing in common with the airlines...most the PAX are pissed up as well....
But luckily most airline pilots don't have pee'd up women grabbing their bum cheeks whilst screaming "OH YOUNG MAN!" in their lugholes.

Respeck to you my friend!

VFE.

[davepearsall]

age 21, just finished uni. Working in a factory £9ph so not bad. Saving up some money to go travelling first and to save towards studying at OAT in hopefully the not too distant future.

[Slow Progress]

I probably couldn't be in a better position really although I wish I acted on it sooner. Currently at MYT in a ground position. Almost sold my house so I can concentrate on some serious flying. Still need to fininsh the PPL but we all have to start somewhere!!!

Slow Progress

[Awyrennwr]

Like many others, during my ATPL theories, I worked on check-in, then dispatch. After my CPL IR etc, I worked in handling agent operations, then operations for the executive air charter company I now fly for.

Working as a dispatcher is great for networking.

[JohnSmith747]

A scientist in the research centre. Don't hate it, but i'd prefer something better ;)
Cheers to all patient future pilots!

[Pressure Error]

Just finished CPL/IR, I have done the whole thing whilst keeping my current job within the Electricity Distribution Industry. Now the hard bit getting a Job as a pilot.
I have met a lot of great people through out my training (over 5 Years) and would do it all again even if I don’t ever get a job, Keep it all in prospective it will become a job like any other in time, an airline is the same as any other large company you will need to fit in regardless of your training history.
To any wanabe or student nearly every instructor I have met so far now fly’s for an airline, mostly modular guys with life experience that makes them interesting people to talk to. Don’t get down listening to any integrated / modular argument as there are pros to both, I know modular & integrated people working for BA Mainline. Question the interest of any company that recommends one route or the other.
Good luck to all searching for jobs and remember if you hold a license you already have a major achievement to be proud of:) .

[AlphaMale]

Not really waiting for my first job as I'm not qualified 'yet'

But I am a 24 year old Graphic/Web Designer & Programmer. It's my 1st job since coming out of uni and the money is ok for now.

I have no house or huge bills yet and think it'll be a great time to do my training ... But having a huge student debt over my head makes me think :sad: ... And with house prices rising would it be wiser investing into property as opposed to my pilot training?

My friends are saying stick to what I am doing senior people in my area of work earn £50/60k+ and get back to their families every night and can afford to spend their weekends flying for fun :rolleyes:

Since coming on this forum I have been confused ad had some real eye openers, but for some reason I'd quite happily fly a plane for £15k per year :ok:

Andrew

[Sky Wave]

Same job I've been doing ever since I left school at 16. (Now 31).

Railway signal engineering. I left full time employment in 2003 and have been doing the same work on a contract basis ever since. It pays more and it allowed me to take time off for training between contracts. I'm only picking up odd bits of work now because I can't commit to any more than two weeks at a time. This means I only usually get a couple of weekends work a month, and that's usually at least 200 miles away from home, and night work!

Still shouldn't be too long before CTC drag me out of the pool and send me on a type rating. :)

[Turkish777]

Cheers mate :) , you have to strike why the irons hot with the limo girls.......shocking mate what goes on, It seems what happens on a girls night out stays on the girls night out...

I could write a book when I finished..probably write a whole series by time I get a job with the Airlines...:E

[timzsta]

Got my fATPL Sep 04. MCC shortly after.

Did FIC course winter 05/06 and got part time FI job at my local club at the weekends.

In the week I work as a multi drop driver so I can pay my mortgage and bills.

Would love to instruct full time but the money won't pay the bills.

320 hours, multi and IR both current.

[Startbahn West]

fATPL in june 2002
then Pre degree in business administration
Rampagent for a year now in FRA.
Have 300 TT
Take everything where i can fly.

[Flight350]

Hi guy's anyone knows which country is easy and costless to convert my FAA license to JAA I just moved to EU,please give me some info.

Thanks

[sam34]

hello everyone!

I wonder have you got any plan B, while you are looking for a flying job ?

What is the best job during the search ? I mean : flying dispatcher, flight instructor, fligth attendant... did i forget another ?

thanks a lot!

sam34

[Craggenmore]

I became a full time FI and would highly recommend it. It was good to be the 'boss' for a while after the intensity of flight training and before becoming a lowly FO for the next 5-10 years....!!!!

[SmilingKnifed]

Personally I'm really enjoying being a pimp.:E

[Cyclone733]

Back doing my old job for half the pay and living with the spare rentals.:ugh:

On a brighter note, it's doing wonders for my motivation to get an airline job.:}

[ILSTOMIN]

Well, I just got myself a job while I wait for my airline job as well.
I'm not sure how long time I will be there, but my new boss is really flexible, so I can leave in short notice.

About working as a flight instructor, I rather not pay 11.000Euro for the FI. rating, I rather buy a typerating.

Anyone know what the avearge lengt of time before getting your first airline job??.

Well, I got to get back to the flightsimulator X.

:ok:

[Hawkeye_563]

Unlike some of my other coursemates, I've not been fortunate to find a job as yet. I have however been earning more than them as an engineer for a global avionics manufacturer. I've been saving for 18 months now and have enough funds for a type rating and line training. I got my fatpl three years ago in march, so I'm now gonna go down the route of buying a type rating.

I hope all you other guys don't have to do the same as me.

Good luck anyways, I'll write back to let you know if it works out or not.

[Penworth]

A couple of months after finishing my CPL/IR and MCC I got a job as a Flight Planner in one of the main UK charter airlines. It was an excellent job in terms of improving my knowledge of airline ops, routes and procedures. The money wasn't great, but I felt it an invaluable stepping stone, and indeed a couple of my colleagues (who also possessed fATPL's) were offered interviews for flight deck positions within the company as a result of impressing the Flight Ops management in their day to day work. I suspect I may have eventually got an interview too, had I not headed off to CTC after 8 months. :ok:

[Glide Perfectionist]

Working offshore as a freelance engineer for £280 per day tax free to repay all the training.

Bad weather has forced us to refuge in Aberdeen.

Anyone interested it is a great way to earn pennies until that first job.