BA Connect

[stenoman]

Flew two flights with the new BA Connect service. Not a great deal different than before, except the catering.

However, what HAS seemed to have become worse is the seemingly never-ending announcements soon after take off. We were first reminded of the Executive Club, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, then even more blurb about how they would be coming through the cabin with a variety of hot and cold snacks, including hot breakfast baps and pizza slices, sandwiches, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, and CHOCOLATE FINGERS. Here we are, barely off the ground, and they're advertising chocolate bl**dy fingers!

I find flying stressful enough, but this constant haranguing is too much sometimes. When I asked one of the cabin crew to cut the announcements down to what was strictly necessary, she said, "Yes, but were you happy with the fare?" I said the fare wasn't my main consideration I chose BA Connect, that my main consideration was the fact they weren't Ryanair. I'm beginning to wonder if the rot's set in...

[radeng]

The fact that they don't offer Business Class with free meals means that I can't be bothered with going to Bristol. So they lost my business.

[zed3]

stenoman , the rot set in a few years ago , it's now starting to take hold . It started when they served the old economy meals as Club meals and the deli thing in the back . Nothing wrong with the fares or crews but the so called managerial decisions are all wrong . For a flag carrier and British Airways at that to have to pay for meals is just plain wrong . The good old days of a poached salmon salad and a glass of wine cannot have cost much more in the long term and had a certain style AND was welcome if flying at meal times , I would rather pay a bit more and have the service . What do they do with all the unsold sandwiches etc , is it sale or return ? wouldn't surprise me in the least . I liked flying BA and am due to fly in two weeks or so again with Connect , 'twill be interesting to see if I still like them !

[PAXboy]

If your favourite legacy carrier has not yet taken these actions - then they will be doing so very soon now! The LCCs must be hugely amused by the effect that they have had on carriers. Watching your competitors reduce costs, so that think they are competing with you but are merely devaluing their own product, must be rewarding. In due course, some punters will think that, since there is no great benefit in going with the old carrier, they might as well go pn the one that is even cheaper.

Of course, some will always stick with the old carriers and for all the reasons that we have reahearsed but it is interesting to watch established companies give away their carefully crafted reputation, so that they can increse the pax numbers this year. Some managers just ain't interested in what happens in five years time. Afterall, they will have moved on by then and taken their profit sharing. Heigh-Ho, that's the way the world turns and nothing we can say wil change it.

[CargoOne]

PAXboy

Looking on a recent developments at LCCs you would actually notice that they are coming back to traditional service, step by step. Seat allocation, some cold snacks and drinks, IFE, flexible tickets. I expect some of them will introduce a kind of economy-premium seats, and I bet that would happen earlier than someone may think.

The only question is how quicky majors will realize that trend has changed again.

[PAXboy]

Fascinating observation CO. I do not travel so much these days as I am in a different job but I have seen some of what you say. An amusing parrallel of this is in South Africa. Being part South African, I keep an eye on that forum and have a nephew who is a commercial pilot there.

They have had a number of LCC start ups in the country to the point where the legacy carrier, SAA, is now planning an LCC start up!!! Given that SAA is STILL a state owned carrier, you can imagine the temperatures this plan is raising. With the rapid development of Jetstar in Oz, it will be interesting to watch how their actions follow the curve here in Europe.

[the_fish@blueyonder.]

PAXboy

Looking on a recent developments at LCCs you would actually notice that they are coming back to traditional service, step by step. Seat allocation, some cold snacks and drinks, IFE, flexible tickets. I expect some of them will introduce a kind of economy-premium seats, and I bet that would happen earlier than someone may think.

The only question is how quicky majors will realize that trend has changed again.

I'm not aware of any UK Low Cost Airlines that offer any of those features. I would imagine that the bigger carriers such as Easyjet and Ryanair would be making enough money to offer free soft drinks at least, and maybe introduce a moving map display on fold down screens.

While I can't see any of this actually happening, I can't think how the introduction of such things as a map display would affect profits in the long run, as it surely can't cost that much to offer such a thing. Do LOCO's in the USA not offer free drinks, personal IFE (I read somewhere that jet Blue offer seat back screens) and the like?

[840]

Giving out free drinks wouldn't cost the airline too much money, but they would lose the sales to customers who were buying these drinks. Even if that's only £20 per flight, over the number of flights that Ryanair or Easyjet operate in a year, it's significant money.

[bealine]

Apparently, EasyJet and Ryanair are both being hit hard at the moment by the high fuel prices which are likely to remain with us until the end of summer.

I wouldn't expect to see these two offer free anything in the near future - certainly not O'Leary's lot!

[radeng]

So far this year, I've made 27 flights on BA/BA Connect. Only two of those weren't jam packed full, and 23 of them were European flights where the LCCs could be considered as competition. So from my viewpoint, it seems that the LCC's have led to more people flying, and possibly a few less BA flights on some routes.

[PAXboy]

Cargo OneSeat allocation, some cold snacks and drinks What I took CO to mean were the old charter companies that have moved carefully into scheduled and are now expanding their product.

[apaddyinuk]

I find flying stressful enough, but this constant haranguing is too much sometimes. When I asked one of the cabin crew to cut the announcements down to what was strictly necessary, she said, "Yes, but were you happy with the fare?" I said the fare wasn't my main consideration I chose BA Connect, that my main consideration was the fact they weren't Ryanair. I'm beginning to wonder if the rot's set in...

Ever consider buying an iPod and whacking it on before all the announcements start??? Be warned, the crew are prob on commission so PA's will increasingly be made to advertise what they sell!!!

[stenoman]

Ever consider buying an iPod and whacking it on before all the announcements start??? Be warned, the crew are prob on commission so PA's will increasingly be made to advertise what they sell!!!

I would have used an iPod if I had one! I have a Sony mp3 player that the instructions say can't be used on a plane (why, I don't know - it's all solid state, but does have a radio receiver). I did the next best thing on my return flight and stuck my fingers in my ears. It was bliss!

Thanks everyone for the great replies. Seems we're in a time of big change and flux in the airline industry as they all chase after our £££s.

I today received a letter from BA in response to my complaint form that said nothing in particular other than they were sorry that I didn't find the flight satisfactory, but were pleased to offer low fares to UK and European destinations!

If anyone from BA is listening, here are the requirements for a flight:

1) Safety.
2) Comfort (seats and light/dark/airflow).
3) Peace and quiet, minimal announcements.
4) A sarnie and cuppa or a hot meal on a long flight.
5) Something to keep the kids amused and strapped to their seats for the duration of the flight and as far away from my seat as possible!

Is that so hard in this day and age?

[derekvader]

PAXboy
Looking on a recent developments at LCCs you would actually notice that they are coming back to traditional service, step by step. Seat allocation, some cold snacks and drinks, IFE, flexible tickets. I expect some of them will introduce a kind of economy-premium seats, and I bet that would happen earlier than someone may think.
The only question is how quicky majors will realize that trend has changed again.

Ah but the majors still go to sensible airports, whereas the LCCs all go to stupid airports that you spend half your day on coaches being bussed back to the city centre.

[Cyrano]

Ah but the majors still go to sensible airports, whereas the LCCs all go to stupid airports that you spend half your day on coaches being bussed back to the city centre.
Not over-generalising just a little bit here, are we? :=

PS Is Londin somewhere near London? :p

[brian_dromey]

Ah but the majors still go to sensible airports, whereas the LCCs all go to stupid airports that you spend half your day on coaches being bussed back to the city centre.

Precicely the point. Also you dont have to endure the shouting of stag parties and the rude crews selling everything except the overhead lockers.(especially on a certain Irish Lo-co). Last month I made a multi-flight trip which had both EI and FR in it. The difference is amazing, and the fare for EI over FR on the same route was €10 each. Well worth it. No scramble on boarding, no screaming, hassle, and best off all ploite crews who dont go for the hard sell. What they do sell is much better(and cheeper) than that rubbish British Rail wouldnt have the cheek to serve, which FR pushes, along with scratch cards, train/bus tickets and holiday villas.

As I reclined in my personally selected exit-row seat, ate and drank well, I thought to hell to FR its well worth the tenner.

to the poster who thought BACON announcements were too frequent....DO NOT try FR, the PA never gets a break.

[MerchantVenturer]

Ah but the majors still go to sensible airports, whereas the LCCs all go to stupid airports that you spend half your day on coaches being bussed back to the city centre.

I use easyJet from BRS a fair bit and they fly to (or will do so shortly) 29 destinations in the UK and Europe from Lulsgate's rear end.

Which of these 29 are not sensible airports in terms of the cities they serve? They fly to the main airports in such places as Madrid, Barcelona and Venice and use SXF in Berlin and CIA in Rome - both sensible airports to serve those cities in my opinion.

In fact, BAConnect uses the more distant MXP on its Milan route from BRS. I'm not knocking this BTW. It's great to have such choice from a local airport.

[slim_slag]

Ah but the majors still go to sensible airports, whereas the LCCs all go to stupid airports that you spend half your day on coaches being bussed back to the city centre.

It takes me well over three hours to get to LHR or LGW from my door, and God knows how long to get through the airport. There is an EZ and FR base less than 20 minutes away from my door and I can get through into the departure lounge in minutes. What is 'sensible' about LHR or LGW for people like me? Total time from door to door, and total cost from door to door is all that matters when flying short haul in Europe.

As for BA Connect, who cares? FR and EZ have made economy class travel in Europe a commodity, and us passengers should be very very grateful for that. What BA should be concerned about is the decrease in service levels in their premium cabins.

[derekvader]

It takes me well over three hours to get to LHR or LGW from my door, and God knows how long to get through the airport. There is an EZ and FR base less than 20 minutes away from my door and I can get through into the departure lounge in minutes. What is 'sensible' about LHR or LGW for people like me? Total time from door to door, and total cost from door to door is all that matters when flying short haul in Europe.

I'm talking about the destination end. Examples: Ryanair into Oslo, Stockholm, Hamburg, Venice, Barcelona etc. When I go from London to places like these, I generally only have 1 or 2 days there, so what matters to me is getting to the City Centre inside 45 mins or so. If I have to spend three hours on a coach through the Norwegian countryside, as you do when flying to "Oslo" with Ryanair, and another three hours back, half my weekend is gone.

I agree that it's the total door-to-door journey time that matters, but for some people like yourself that live close to Luton/Stansted there will be some time savings to be had on the London end, but for the majority of London travellers, particularly central London ones, adding the time to get out to Luton/Stansted, to the time to get from the minor airport that Ryanair use at Oslo etc, makes the Ryanair journey considerably longer and prone to missed connections.

[Cyrano]

Examples: Ryanair into Oslo, Stockholm, Hamburg, Venice, Barcelona etc....as you do when flying to "Oslo" with Ryanair...the time to get from the minor airport that Ryanair use at Oslo etc, makes the Ryanair journey considerably longer....

I think we could agree 100% that a lot of Ryanair airports are out of the way and require long bus journeys. But your original assertion was "the LCCs all go to stupid airports" and I think you're tarring them all with the same brush. Easyjet, Jet2, Germanwings and the like seem to get by OK at primary airports.

[masalaairlines]

Going back to something someone said earlier regarding the hard-sell over the PA system. What's the deal with the crew of locos not knowing anything about the PA volume setting these days! There is after all a reason why there is an adjuster, which most non-locos are trained to use to compensate for cabin noise levels. These are obviously higher during climb out than say during taxiing. Is this not in their low cost training, or has the volume button been removed along with window-blinds, seat recline function etc??

Being fairly tall my ear is only ever a few inches from the overhead speakers, and even with fingers discretely in ears it is still loud. Minus fingers it is just disturbingly deafening!

Surely there must be a way of applying some EU directive or H&S standard on safe cabin dB levels. The source does not only have to be engine noise!

[masalaairlines]

Something I wanted to add to that post... but slightly different:
I think we could agree 100% that a lot of Ryanair airports are out of the way and require long bus journeys.....
Yes but let's not forget that they are also targetting much wider passenger catchment areas. e.g. Frankfurt-Hahn airport maybe 160km from FRA but has now also got great bus links to other populated areas of Western Germany and beyond. It could just as well be called Luxemburg-Hahn, Trier-Hahn etc.

Also, think about othe important exceptions like Ciampino... actually the closest airport to Rome centre AFIK!

Many of their destinations are also new-startups into what they see as a new catchment area (not only targeting cities), which up until now have had NO significant airlinks by ANY airline. e.g the 3-country catchment area of (tiny) Friedrichshafen, Karlsruhe-Baden (2 countries), Valladolid and many of their Polish destinations.

[the_fish@blueyonder.]

. Is this not in their low cost training, or has the volume button been removed along with window-blinds, seat recline function etc??



I have flown with EasyJet and Ryanair on many occasions and I have yet to board an aircraft of either airline (old and new) which has no window blinds. :confused:

I hate the FR seats these days, the horrible fake leather and the lack of a seat back picket and recline feature are just two of the reasons I leave thier website till last when booking a flight.:mad:

As for PA announcements, I've never had any problem with them, but then I have only used LOCO's to fly from EDI/GLA/PIK-LTN/STN so maybe these flights aren't long enough for them to go wild.

[slim_slag]

Maybe the clue is in the 'Connect' part of BA Connect. It's about the only thing to differentiate BA from the LOCO lot right now, BA will 'connect' you to another flight whereas the LOCO will blatently tell you they are point to point.

So when BA provide service to/from one of these non 'sensible' airports (which appears to be defined as being in the UK but not near London) you 'connect' to the 'sensible' airport in order to get somewhere via another flight. The LOCO approach appears to service airports in non 'sensible' places but will fly you to another non 'sensible' airport without any connecting. For some this makes a lot more sense, i.e the tens of millions of people who don't live near Heathrow or Gatwick.

Also, why do people consider the 'destination' to be in continental Europe. People in Europe might be a bit offended by that, they may think the destination is in the UK. If they want to get to anywhere outside London (for there is life outside the M25) it might just be more convenient to fly to EMA or BRS or LPL or NCL. London is an important city, sure, but it's not the be all and end all, and life is far better in parts of the country where you don't spend all your disposable income on a mortgage. The LOCOs are addressing that market, and if you look at their loads, they appear to be doing very well indeed. As we are not wasting all our money on mortgage interest we might be able to afford to fly to Europe when our London dwellers cannot.

I bet you once the FR and EZ network matures they will start integrated service just like Southwest does. They will then have a massive European network in place, which flies to airports with loads of customers within an hour's travel (about what it takes to get from the gate to the runway at LHR :)) BA can connect you to heathrow from a shrinking number of regional airports, but what's the point of using BA if I can get within 50 miles of my destination anyway for a fraction of the price and avoid LHR in the process? BA connect might make sense if you are flying to New York from the provinces, but not if you are flying to Rome. Even so, you can fly nonstop to NY now from places outside of London, and look at the airlines moving to MAN/BHX for their long haul flights via Dubai and places.

[masalaairlines]

Even so, you can fly nonstop to NY now from places outside of London, and look at the airlines moving to MAN/BHX for their long haul flights via Dubai and places.
I have been increasingly using Dublin as a transfer point for both short haul and long haul. FR services this so well from so many regional airports, so that I can pretty be anywhere in the country and find a nearby airport to get to Dublin and beyond!

Recent example of FR's dirt cheap..one way services to the rescue: Me and the Mrs. going to Bahrain for the GP...We got tickets from Dublin instead of LHR. I was in the North East so I flew in from NCL, the Mrs. flew in from MAN. Then we caught Gulf Air to BAH. On the way back I had a meeting back in the North East so I got FR back to MME, and the Mrs had to be in LPL. Our 4 FR sectors cost us less than £75!! Now figure that all via LHR and with BA connect!

[10secondsurvey]

Air Berlin do now offer through ticketing, but i don't know the terms and conditions etc..

I just don't get the philosophy at BA, running down a quality product, as that feeds their long haul network, both on departure from the UK and upon arrival. I try to avoid BA connect when there is an alternative with a proper airline. Heck, klm can still do freee food and drinks (including alcoholic drinks), and at lower prices than BA or BMI.

If a travelinn/lodge/budget hotel opens up in the same street as a five star, the five star hotel management do not immediately decide to become a budget hotel. Instead, what savvy management does is use every trick in the book to differentiate itself from the budget chain, in order to justify the fact that it may be more expensive.

I personally think BA have lost the plot, and will probably end up like BMI domestic, who no longer seem able to offer through ticketing, unless travelling business class (which on BMI is exactly the same as economy but costs more). I guess that's what you get with a budget airline minded man in charge. BA should be thinking nothing but quality - it is what they are good at, just as ryanair or easyjet are really good at the budget approach.

[bealine]

10secondsurvey - I agree with a lot of your statement, but disagree that "BA has lost the plot!" Indeed, considering the high fuel prices which, despite all their bravado and bluster, is placing EasyJet and Ryanair in deep financial doo doo, you are going to be looking at a very impressive set of profit figures for BA tomorrow - and I will be getting a bonus! I don't think Rod Eddington and Willie Walsh would have achieved this if we had "lost the plot!"

The loads on our flights are high, especially in the premium market, and this reflects the fact that the majority of our customers are happy to pay the quoted fares. I think our aim is to be competitive, but not necessarily the cheapest.

However, I do agree that marketing have lost sight of which type of customers we want to target - we're still bumbling along the "we want them all" road but, it has to be admitted, we are succeeding despite the high fuel prices and frequent criticism from the Daily Mail / Evening Standard!

[thomsonfly.com]

I don't know how many people who have moaned about the BA Connect product have actually tried it, but I'd be prepared to say that it's one of the best low-cost airline products around that I've tried. The ground staff & cabin crew manage to pull of a sense of service & class which isn't always found at low-cost airlines, you can definitely see the British Airways standards of training, along with a very well-groomed uniform which just keeps the sense of decorum that most passengers expect from BA. I'd say the only difference is that now there is no Club Europe (a complete con on an ERJ-145 anyway) and you have to pay for food & drink, and I'd rather have the all-day breakfast at a fiver, than have one of the god awful "all day deli" bags, or the bags of crisps BA are rumoured to be using or about to use on shorthaul flights ex-LHR.

All in all, BA Connect are responding to a new way of flying in the regions, where people are primarily interested in price. BA have kept with Connect things important to their customers like online checkin, self-service checkin, executive club lounges & mileage, flexible tickets, leather seats and BA standards of service. Only thing is prices have dropped, they're now called BA Connect and food is no longer free. I fail to see the big deal ... in fact bmibaby ought to learn from them.

[10secondsurvey]

I agree with thomsonfly about BMI baby learning a thing or two from BA. Maybe BMI need to learn a thing or two as well. The problem I have with BA connect, is that generally (and I fly in EU a lot) I can't see much of a difference in price, over previous BA prices. I will pay more for a quality product, but I won't pay more for nothing extra.

I still believe they should focus on quality, and stop trying to be something they are not. Effectively they are 'diluting' their product, and hoping that most of their flyers won't notice too much. BMI thought they could do that as well.

On the upside, BA connect has not yet plumbed the depths of BMI - an outfit that lost the plot some time ago (and this from someone who used to prefer flying BMI over BA).