NetJets T&C getting worse?

[susi]

Soon 600 pilots and about 50 Cabin Attendants and NO representation. The FEAR culture, prevents any open discussion. The Fleet Managers represent us you will say. It is this fear culture that prevents people from speaking up, everybody wants to keep their job- yes some things would need to be addressed but I MIGHT GET FIRED- that's what everybody is thinking, including the Fleet Managers. Go with the flow- don't say peep. Works with all systems with autocratic leadership strategy.


But if say 80 - 90 percent of the Air Crew worforce join a Crew Council we could bring some issues to the attention of NetJets management.

We see things that could improve the operation but nobody asks the frontline workers- and if we are asked we are afraid of getting fired.

Is it really worth to invest a good part of you lifetime with NetJets?

Salary grid stops after 10 years of service
Annual pay increase does not match inflation(Bonus payments for managers)
What happens after 60?
Health care package etc after 60?
Loss of Licence insurance?
First Officer salaries the same as Cabin Attendants?
Large cabin fleet salaries really reflect market conditions?
Rostering 6/5 now 6/4-

I am sure there are more issues that could be discussed in a constructive way.
Some advice from our NETJETS USA UNION friends?

DOGS THAT LET THEMSELVES GET KICKED, WILL GET KICKED- BITE

[susi]

Now they want volunteers for 22 days of work- with extra day payments-

Whats next contract change?

More planes and not enough pilots- highly qualified managers, highly paid, annual salary increase? Bonus? Inflation?

Soon 600 pilots and no T&C negotiation partner?

Some ideas:Work by the book- no more "Favours", not a good idea.
Collectively resign, not a good idea.
Leave aircraft where they are and go home,not a good idea.

A Crew Council that represents the Flight and Cabin Crew, constructive negotiations with the workforce- a good idea?

[erikv]

Susi,

in some companies people are told to work extra without any compensation. I know, because I was in my previous company. They have asked for volunteers and you are free to take it or leave it. That is, if you're in and not just looking to bash the company.

I believe that the management - especially in its present configuration - is well aware of the need to attract and retain people. This is getting attention.

Do seem to miss why you keep reiterating a few statements over the past Month.

E.

[Mike Oxbig]

Agreed EricV - the company ask for volunteers to do the extra days and then pay you for them. If you choose not to - no hassle.
It must be difficult for the sales guys to tell prospective owners who are dangling a cheque for a lot of money in front of them to say please come back later so we all have to work together to achieve success for our company.

[south coast]

you are right in sayingthat they are asking for volunteers, but extra days should be at a rate over and above the normal rate...

apparently, if you divide your monthlyt payment by 18, you get a rough daily rate...then compare that to the amount they are offering for you to do beyond your contractual 18 days...

i thought overtime, which is what it basically is should be paid at a rate above that of your normal amount...

and then factor tax into it, hardly worth it financially, so your only reason for doing it is.....

cause your a good egg...

[trainer too 2]

Susi

What is your problem?

It is on a voluntary basis and the guy who made the mis match decided to leave because of it. The new guys in management are picking up the pieces nicely and ask (you can always say no!) if you can do more and if so get paid more.. :rolleyes:

[GTJDS]

Bad Idea would be a disaster guaranteed unions don’t work period, if you don’t like the company go work somewhere else don’t inflict your negativity on every one else.

[SnowPilot]

if you are going to start a union it all starts with good leadership and volunteers.

Look at the history of NJA with 284 leaving to 1108.

Leaving 284 is a lesson in history of what a motivated pilot force, excellent volunteers and a forward thinking leadership who are in it for pilot gains not money.

Ps GTJDS if you don't think unions work why don't you take a look at our latest contract. Scope, 60 percent pay increase, 40k bonus, fly from home, great retirement, liscense insurance, the list goes on and on.

Want to check out our contract www.ibt1108.org click on netjets pilots and then info for new hires--contract.

By the way that is comparing apples to apples.

[Flintstone]

The new management appear to be making steps in the right direction. They've a long way to go, a lot of damage was done in the past and those in Lisbon bore the brunt. Once they've had their wounds dressed maybe those on the line will get similar attention.

With all that has gone before I find susi's attitude somewhat understandable and get a bit frustrated with those people relatively new to the company who feel they are able to tell the rest of us how to behave. Had they spent a few years being subjected to, let's be honest, some pretty appalling treatment maybe they wouldn't be feeling so superior.

To say susi should take his/her negativity elsewhere is somewhat patronising, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because his isn't the same as yours doesn't mean he/she should go elsewhere. What would you rather have, everyone saying how wonderfully fantastic everything is? That looks nice from the outside but in the meantime people would still be leaving and costing the company money.

I think the new management are adult enough to accept a bit of criticism and deal with a few problems.

So that's the past.

Personally I prefer to look to the future.










PS. No, the extra day pay thing doesn't make sense to me either. Less than a 'normal' days pay and a fraction (no pun intended) of the cost of a sell-off? I don't get it.

[DH98]

Probably the wrong thread but........... Notwithstanding the grumbles from the aircrew mafia at NetJets, what's it like for the non- aircrew employees, in particular ops et al?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

[redsnail]

Apparently with the current change in management, the mood in the office has improved considerably.

They're still working quite hard though. I do hope more are recruited.

[SnowPilot]

Ahhh the old white knight syndrome.

Change in mgmt, the white knight rides in and everybody is happy for a short time.

In the end though the story is the same.

Good luck in the union fight. trust me it will be a fight but well worth it.

As my paycheck and workrules show. :)

[Flintstone]

Ahhh the old white knight syndrome.
Change in mgmt, the white knight rides in and everybody is happy for a short time.
In the end though the story is the same.
Good luck in the union fight. trust me it will be a fight but well worth it.
As my paycheck and workrules show. :)


I did temper my comments with the word "appear".

Can I help being an optimist though?

[susi]

GTJDS did you click on the link?

"Ps GTJDS if you don't think unions work why don't you take a look at our latest contract. Scope, 60 percent pay increase, 40k bonus, fly from home, great retirement, liscense insurance, the list goes on and on. "

[falconbis]

about the extra day I think that below a 1000 euros a day its not even an option. if i ll fly as free lance that s the minimum i will get and remember that they offer a total of 1000 euros max for a three crew airplane when according to some vendors they have charter Citation on sale off for up to 8000 euros an hour...about the 22 days holidays screw up, we are pay for 18 days a month so if i take 10 days holidays i should be roadster only 8 days during that month.... there is a huge margin for improvment like the discrimination about the offshore contract imposed to non Uk and non Portuguese Pilots to name only one example.

[tophe]

Falconbis,

About your 22 days of vacations: you get that amount because in Portugal, it's the law. But NTA is also taking the std monthly duty day of 22 when it comes to vacation: 22-10=12 working days.
Yes,I know that your contract says 18 days...... but not long ago, it was a total of 14 vacation days a year and not 22 working days like now.....(this could be up to 38days off in total).
Cheers

[Mike Oxbig]

The extra day's rate has gone up - is it worth it now?

Discuss!

[jepp721]

The extra day's rate has gone up - is it worth it now?

Discuss!

What is the new rate??

Jepp

[redsnail]

If you're Netjets crew, it's being discussed private (http://www.jetblasters.com)

You'll need to register and apply for permission to view. (if you're current NJE crew, it's easy)

[Mike Oxbig]

Sorry Jepp721, I cannot disclose that info! I was just wondering if any NJE employees are more likely to volunteer!

[falconbis]

Falconbis,
About your 22 days of vacations: you get that amount because in Portugal, it's the law. But NTA is also taking the std monthly duty day of 22 when it comes to vacation: 22-10=12 working days.
Yes,I know that your contract says 18 days...... but not long ago, it was a total of 14 vacation days a year and not 22 working days like now.....(this could be up to 38days off in total).
Cheers
Tophe,
may be the 22 days now is better than the 14 except that before it was 14 the first two years then up to 28 days after 5 years but that is not the issue. The problem is that in Portugal like elsewhere 22 days vacations is working days so if I take 10 days vacation this month I cannot be roadster more than 8 days ...and that never happen, most of the time i will be roadster 2 tours of 6 days! That s why i have difficulty to anderstand the paiement of extend day after 22 days if you have been on holidays..

[tophe]

I also don't agree, I was just trying to understand and play "l'avocat du Diable"......
For me, contract says 18 days, if I take 5 off, I should work only 13 max, but.....
Hopefully, one more problem to find a solution in the near futur.

Bons vols.

[PPPmember]

http://www.jetblasters.com

for all Netjetter's .... sign in and use the NJE forum ....

[falconbis]

Yep, I try to register to Netjets tread but after 3 email to Gimini, I still don t received any reply...Is there a special way to access? is some one can tell me! thanks

[Halfa Daily]

I got an my email returned???? Send Fail

[Flintstone]

Halfa and falconbis, you have PM's.