Rocket assisted: ever used in service?

[williamp]

I was watching an old "Farnborough in the 50s" footage, which showed a lot of aircraft using rockets to assist with their take off (and, according to one commentator, for help above 45,000 ft).

Were they ever used in service?
Can anyone tell me more about them?

[Groundloop]

RATO was used on R4Ds (US Navy C-47s) and C-130s in the Antarctic.

I believe it was also used on SAC's B-47s.

Well, that's the list started....

[treadigraph]

Didn't Colemill convert a rocket assisted PA-31 some years back?

[ORAC]

On April 25, 1965, President Johnson approved plans to land Marines at Chu Lai to construct a combat airfield. MABS-12 deployed by ship from Iwakuni, Japan and landed in May, 1965. The Marines worked with Navy Seabees to complete the runway. The Marine Corps began launching A-4 Skyhawks (with JATO) for combat missions in June, 1965. By October, 1965, the Chu Lai 7011s had logged 5,000 arrests. On the night of October 27, 1965, a group of enemy "sappers" penetrated the airfield and damaged several A-4's, as well as trying to blow up the arresting gear that was manned and operational, awaiting returning A-4's. JATO was used until, in 1966, a MAG-12 catapult was installed.

JATO Launch from Chu Lai (http://www.skyhawk.org/5E/G148435/html/148530a.htm)

[yowie]

Remember seeing a video of a C130 reportedly training for a hostage rescue mission(Libya?) with forward firing JATO,obviously for very short field ops. I think they may have hit the wrong button whilst still airborne,with the expected result! Anyone still got the vid?

[ORAC]

Operation 'Credible Sport'

In 1980, following the failure of Operation "Eagle Claw" (aka Desert One) the U.S. military made radical modifications to a C-130H Hercules so it could take off and land almost like a helicopter. The aircraft was equipped with lift rockets slanting downward, slowdown rockets facing forward, missile motors facing backward, and still more rockets to stabilize the plane as it touched down. The mission — land in a Tehran soccer stadium, rescue 53 American hostages held captive in Iran, and get out.
.
Two aircraft received these special modifications and were redesignated YMC-130H. The first modified plane (#74-1683), created in just a couple of months, crashed on the runway during a training exercise after a rocket discharged prematurely and ripped off the aircraft's right wing. The second modified plane (#74-1686) was never used and is now on display at Robins AFB in Georgia.

Video (http://www.theaviationzone.com/media/c130_credible_sport.mpg)

[Opssys]

The Buccaneers of the South African Air Force were delivered with Bristol Siddeley B.S.605 HTP Twin Chamber Rocket Motors with 8000ib static thrust to provide for Hot and High take-offs at full weight.
I think this makes them unique in that the installation was permanent and they were one of the few RATO units to use liquid fuel and almost certainly the only in service example of the use of liquid fuel since the Luftwaffe of WWII.

A historical curiosity query:
I seem to remember the Comet prototype (the Big Main Wheel Aircraft) had fittings for RATO units. Is this a case of too little Beer and too many Dried Frog Pills, or am I right?

[treadigraph]

Unless we've been sharing the Frog Pills, I think you're right Opssys!

[BOAC]

Possibly a Valiant with it too?

[SPIT]

Hi
I have a photo of a C -130 doing a RATO take off and very impressive it is, there is also a picture of the Blue Eagles (USN) team support a/c doing a RATO t/o as part of the display.:8 :8

[spekesoftly]

A historical curiosity query:
I seem to remember the Comet prototype (the Big Main Wheel Aircraft) had fittings for RATO units. Is this a case of too little Beer and too many Dried Frog Pills, or am I right?
Quite right. A number of experimental test flights were made using Comet GALVG, fitted with two 5000lb thrust Sprite rocket motors, between 1951 and 1952, including demonstration RATOs at the SBAC show at Farnborough in September 1952.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Possibly a Valiant with it too?

Rocket Asssisted Take Off was originally a requirement for all V bombers to allow the use of dispersed airfields with limited runway length.
However the as the power of the fitted jet engines increased in the later marks the requirement was dropped.

In the case of the Valiant there would have been two rocket motors in jettisonable pods under the wings...

[green granite]

At boscombe they even tried them on a Beverly, apparently it went upto about 250ft quite quickly (for a Bev) then every thing went quiet, the crew thought the engines had stoped but it carried on ok :D

[Bof]

We used ATO on C130D ski operations in the Arctic in the late 60s. On the Greenland ice cap it was often too difficult to get the nose ski to un-stick even with violent rocking of the stick over its full range and with all bleeds off. One would reach about 70kts and if you could not accelerate further, fire off all four ATO bottles at this point which would usually (but not always) give you enough extra surge-urge from 4000 lbs of thrust to get airborne. If it didn't work (loud groans from the F/Eng as he had to go back and lift four new bottles on to the lugs forward of the rear para doors and they were damned heavy at 9000 ft AGL) one taxied back in your own tracks and had another go! The bottles burned for about 17 secs.

The USN operated later model ski 130s in the antarctic with more umpf. Now if we had had Dash 15 engines a la K with skis I doubt whether ATO would have been required. Happy days

[Milt]

Valiant Super Sprites

Was in crew of WD-215 (second prototype) fitted with 2 underwing release mounted Super Sprites for AUW measured take off and separation trials of the recoverable rocket units.
Each burned an HTP (High Test Peroxide) and kerosene mix to produce around 4,000 pnds thrust each for 50 seconds. Load was 80,000 pnds of jettisonable water. Red line carriage speed was 215 kts.

Soon after take off at about 20 degree bank angle/210 kts a main wing spar failed at a fatigue crack through about 30% of bottom spar cap. Skin tore away in area but structural cross beam took wing twisting load and just held on to allow for commencement of water jettison and release of the Super Sprites.

If we had know what had happened we would not have jettisoned the water from the 3500 gal underwing tanks as the weight would have been a relieving moment at the wing failure point.

We were still dropping water when we gently put it back on the ground.

Mild PTSD persists!!!

Don't know whether the squadrons used the sprites.??

[18-Wheeler]

The early Swearingen Metro's had small RATO's in the tail.
I flew one that had all the gear, but it was all locked out and never used.

[Opssys]

A fascinating thread, on a subject which doesn't often get much attention.
It seems that RATO is one of those ideas that whilst it never completely disappears becomes a 'side show' sometimes literally. But then gets ressurected every so often to answer a specifc need, or mission requirement.

Currently it is going through a 'quiet period'.

Also there appears to be historically a different approach between the US an Britain, with the US (I think) primarily using Solid Propellant and the British concentrating on using HTP either with a catalyst only, or with kerosene.

Whilst I am a 'fan' of HTP for rocket propulsion, handling 80% Concentrations of Hydrogen Peroxide is not easy (see Pictures of Blue Steel Maintenance and Fuelling). A 2% Solution dyes Hair, 80% Solution in contact with Skin, or anything organic becomes much more exciting. So I wonder why we didn't at least experiment with Solid Propellant (after all we did have a lot of experience with Solid Rocket fuel).

A Quick thanks to spekesoftly for clearing up the Comet Query (and Tredders for confirming it wasn't a figment of imagination) and Milt for the Valiant test flight post (Now that is a bad day at the office).

[seacue]

Didn't the Arado 234 use rocket-assisted takeoff? Its jet engines were so short-lived that the rockets probably helped a lot.

[Cornish Jack]

Green Granite
"At boscombe they even tried them on a Beverly, apparently it went up to about 250ft quite quickly (for a Bev)"
Please note, ALL Bevs would get to 250ft quite quickly (and higher) on a V2 climb - and highly impressive too for the spectators!! .. the rockets would improve the acceleration to reduce the take-off run needed.
Still have memories of an evening take-off from the GRASS strip at Roborough after a display day; backed up to put the tail boom over the boundary hedge, full chat, skidding on the wet grass and the V2 climb out was as impressive as anything else that day!!:ok: :ok:

[rotornut]

Years ago I saw a Canadian military C-130 firing its RATO at the Canadian National Exhibition in Toronto.
I understand that the Alberta Government had a DC-3 with RATO.

[Opssys]

In Answer to the query raised by Seacue reference the Arado 234 using RATO: Short Answer Yes and a good link to a nice series of images including a trolley launch is here: http://www.kheichhorn.de/html/body_arado_ar_234_blitz.html

The units were Walter HWK 109-500 RI-201 "Cold" Rocket Assisted Take-Off Packs (Cold meaning Catalyst with HTP).
See: The Hellmuth Walter Website (http://www.walter-rockets.i12.com/ato/500.htm)

Which has another copy of Arado 235 RATO Pix and has information on other Walter Rocket uses including the Me163.
DIH

[Brewster Buffalo]

or ZEL was tested for the USAF in 1958 in another effort to disperse aircraft away from vulnerable airfields.

A 130,000lb solid propellant booster was strapped under the rear of the plane. The plane was attached to a ramp. The pilot than opened up the throttle to afterburner and fired the rocket. Within 4 secs 275 knots was reached. :eek:

19 of the 20 manned launches were successful but the programme went no further.

[Opssys]

When I was a kid and read about the Zero Length Launcher Trials it was a WOW idea.

Now I believe it was the product of the Cold War Bomber Gap era when it was assumed that a Soviet first strike would be wave after wave of Bombers and the Fighters launched against them would have no Airfields to come back to. So use them and the highly trained pilots as SAMs.

The ZEL took that 'logic' to its ultimate conclusion. By putting the Aricraft and unfortunate Pilot on a SAM Launcher.

If I am wrong, then the logistics of the ZEL don't make sense. The fighter would need somewhere to land (OK Motorway/Freeway etc) but then would need facilities to either be transported to another ZEL and refuelled, rearmed, or the ZEL and refuelling and ordnance would have to be taken to the Aircraft. Combat Turnaround would have been very slow.
.

Probably I am missing something, so I await a PPRune guru to provide the truth :-)

DIH

[jabberwok]

Probably I am missing something, so I await a PPRune guru to provide the truth

There is precedent to this. Think back to the Hurricanes on merchant ships during the war. Born out of desparation I agree but there wasn't any recovery system at all.

Then there were the rubber deck landings carried out by Winkle Brown in the Vampire. Clever idea but it would have needed very precise flying for landing. Once on the mat I am assuming it would have taken some time to haul the aircraft off and prepare it for take off again (on dollies?).

[Mycroft]

Jabberwok I have just read a book by Brown including his Rubber Deck landings and (apart from once when he came in too low and the hook caught on the edge of the Deck) he found that landing was easier, as flexibility of deck pushed a/c towards centreline. I believe that due to space limitations the arrestor cables for the land based test installation were shorter tahn standard. To recover the a/c the front of the deck was lowered and the Vampire slid onto a trolley. Although not required during trials the deck could the emptied and prepared for further landings faster than a normal Carrier setup.

Back to the original topic I believe that trials were made for landing DFS 230 gliders using rocket deceleration for Otto Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini, although I do not believe they were used in the actual operation.

[Brewster Buffalo]

The F-100's used to test the system were fitted with a dummy nuclear warhead which implies that it might have been a one way mission landing where you can, (if you can) after delivery.

The USAF went as far as specifying that the last 148 F-100DS had this capability. Perhaps with the increasing deployment of nuclear tipped missiles it seemed no longer necessary?

[Gainesy]

There are RATO bottles in the sea off the eastern end of Akrotiri's runway, only about 30ft deep and about 200yds offshore; someone told me at the time (1970-72) that they were from Valiants. ISTR there were at least six scattered about.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned N9701F/ ET-T21 the Fairchild Packet used by TWA to cart engines around. It had JATO.

[Opssys]

How interesting
I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned N9701F/ ET-T21 the Fairchild Packet used by TWA to cart engines around. It had JATO.
Does anyone know the period when this aircraft was operating for TWA.

Whilst RATO/JATO has been used on Airshow Display Aurcraft on occasion this is the first Commercial Transport use I've ever heard of, perhaps I've led a sheltered life.

[Opssys]

Whoops
There is precedent to this. Think back to the Hurricanes on merchant ships during the war. Born out of desparation I agree but there wasn't any recovery system at all.

Never thought of the CAM Ships their 'War Weary' Hurricanes and the very brave souls who flew them. Desperate times, and a desperate measure, which gave the Fw Condors a nasty fright.

Back to ZEL - I thought the USAF ZEL trials covered types other than the
F100?

As for:
The F-100's used to test the system were fitted with a dummy nuclear warhead which implies that it might have been a one way mission landing where you can, (if you can) after delivery
The MBF faced the same problem after delivery where were the surviving V Bombers going to go?

Finally. No matter how many times I've read about the Rubber Deck trials, their potential etc, it seemed 'unnatural' regardless of the validity of trying the concept.

[ORAC]

Lots of others if you include early cruise missiles: Regulus (http://www.wa3key.com/regulus.html)
http://www.wa3key.com/regul600.jpg
Mace:
ORAC, it seems the site you linked to does not allow hot links and inserted one of their own. With proper fuel/air mixture and a match theirs might have been a rocket as well as it was a moonshot so to speak.
Navaho:
Site didn't allow hot link.
Snark:
http://strategic-air-command.com/missiles/Snark/images/snark_launch.jpg

(Reference the packet, that is an Orpheus jet engine on top of the fuselage.)

[Brewster Buffalo]

How interesting

Does anyone know the period when this aircraft was operating for TWA.

Whilst RATO/JATO has been used on Airshow Display Aurcraft on occasion this is the first Commercial Transport use I've ever heard of, perhaps I've led a sheltered life.

Googling suggest in service with TWA late 1960s/early 1970s. It was on offer for sale at one stage with 10,000 hours on the clock. Asking price was $250,000. Jet engine was a Westinghouse J34..
Last known whereabouts
"N9701F was still at Greybull in May 2002, part of the outdoor 'museum' which also includes a C-119, A-26 and Lodestar."

[Escondido99]

In the early 60s TAA had several of their DC3s fitted with Rockets, these aircraft were used on freight in Papua New Guinea,I witnessed a demo at Lae
The pilot forgot to up the gear after lift of, but it went up at very healthy rate.
If I remember the rockets were for engine loss only. Made the DC3 very
masculine in appearance. BBB.

[dusk2dawn]

Way back in the 1970-80'ies I read an article in "Flying" about an american BN Trislander operator who had a RATO bottle installed to improve the OEI performance.

[I16]

............. from years ago .......... US Navy R4D [with JATO] operating in Antarctica - this eventful day was stuck fast to the ice - usual way to break was get the tail up, then cut back to see if the thump as the tail hit would free the skis - on this day after four or five attempts and still stuck fast, the JATO somehow lit up! ............. resulting hole in the ice supported the wings, with the nose pointing directly to the sky.

[Mr_Grubby]

http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.gurry/Dadsphotos/C82PACKETONTOSN9701FOrly63small.JPG


Another picture of N9701F 'Ontos' taken at Orly in 1963.


Clint.

[Tim Inder]

Didn't the Luftwaffe experiment with a ZELL F-104 in the 1980s?
Also, I'm sure the USAF used JATO to get F-84s etc. airborne in Korea.

[My Dad's Little Boy]

Didn't the Luftwaffe experiment with a ZELL F-104 in the 1980s?
Also, I'm sure the USAF used JATO to get F-84s etc. airborne in Korea.

I have seen pictures of a Luftwaffe F-104G on it's launcher - but IIRC, it was back in the 1960's because the aircraft was silver and it had the old style Luftwaffe codes of 2 letters and 3 numbers.

Also I'm sure that the French Air force Mirage IIIEs and IVs had JATO units but I don't know whether they were used operationally although I have seen a photo of an operational Mirage IV taking off using JATO.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Didn't the Luftwaffe experiment with a ZELL F-104 in the 1980s?
Also, I'm sure the USAF used JATO to get F-84s etc. airborne in Korea.

http://www.edwards.af.mil/gallery/html_pgs/images/f-84/72dpi/8republic.jpg

http://www.edwards.af.mil/gallery/html_pgs/f-84-2.htm

but this is a test.. didn't the F-84 need a large length of runway? I think it was nicknamed the hog or superhog because of this...:D

[con-pilot]

didn't the F-84 need a large length of runway?

Yes. I can remember as child watching F-84s taking off on hot days on a 10,000 foot runway and using every inch.

There was an old joke about a 'short field takeoff kit' installed on the F-84. It consisted of a bag full of small rocks mounted in front of the nose gear. As the joke goes when the pilot wanted rotate he pulled a string to open the bag, the rocks would fall out in front on the nose wheel, the wheel would run over the rock and the airplane would leap into the air thinking it had run off the end of the runway.

Remember the F-84 did not have an afterburner (reheat).

[teeteringhead]

Or in the words of the song:

"Don't give me an F-84
'Cos she's just a ground-loving wh*re
She'll whine and she'll wheeze
And head straight for the trees
So don't give me an F-84!"

[yowie]

Thanks ORAC,thats the one.:ok:
(not that one,the other one!)

[atb1943]

Rather JATO then RATO, I recall TWA's C-82 Packet at Heathrow, registered ET-T-12, with a couple of pods on top. They used it for carting spare engines around.

Also a Noratlas at Blackbushe during one Farnborough week, I believe F-BFRG, similarly equipped, in the colours of Kalinga Airlines. Shortlived, no doubt.

atb

[Tim Inder]

Here are some pics I found - I remember as a young'un I used to subscribe to 'Aircraft modelworld' in the 1980s and one issue had an article or pics of this beast. I'm pretty sure it was in grey-green camo though.
http://frhewww.physik.uni-freiburg.de/~jaensch/104/r/r049.jpg
these ones seem to prove the camo, although it may have been added later?:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0886537&size=L&width=1024&height=687&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg%20%3D%20%27Ybpxurrq%20S-104%20T%20Mryy%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=1
http://www.bredow-web.de/Luftwaffenmuseum/Kampfjets/Starfighter/starfighter.html

[irishair2001]

I remember seeing a photo of an Ethiopian Airlines CV-240 using jato,If I recall correctly ET did actually use the system for their CV-240s on regular flights out of Adis Ababa's hot and high airport.