QF9 Rejected Takeoff MEL.

[chockchucker]

Noticed today that the Qantas 9 to Singapore and London had a rejected takeoff this afternoon. Originally scheduled to depart YMML at 1530, the latest estimates have it departing at 2300!


Anybody in the know able to shed any light on what the problem was?:ok:

[Bolty McBolt]

Yeah..Engine N2 to high on T/O
Part being changed flight due to leave when replaced

Bolty

[Continental-520]

What sort of equipment was it?

B744 or B763?


520.

[stiffwing]

744, connie.
The 767's dont quite have the legs for WSSS-EGLL :)

[chockchucker]

Cheers Bolty,


What time did they eventually get away?

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Airborne at 0153hr local.

From a friend on the flight:

The last message we had from **** was at midnight when they were still sitting at the airport lounge and QantARSE were still trying to decide if
they were going to put the passengers up in a hotel. Tempers must have got
very high because the police were called to settle the crowd.

[chockchucker]

Well, by that time they should have been well into the SIN-LHR leg of the trip.

Any wonder a few of the punters were a little miffed. Sounds like there a few or zero contingency plans on the part of Qantas when such things happen.

[Capt Fathom]

Well .. the sooner punters can get from A to B without an aeroplane the better! (Beam me up Scottie!) Then I can retire and not have to listen to all the whinging when the plane breaks down! :ugh:

[chockchucker]

A one or two hour delay is one thing Capt. Fathom. A 10+ hour delay is something else.I think if I was one of the pax concerned I'd also have been a little impatient after having to hang around for an extra 10 hours after going through a rejected takeoff. Reckon I would've liked the option of going home and trying again the next day.Particularly after the first five hours of waiting with no commitment from the airline as to when I might be on my way. And as for "the sooner the punters can get from point A to B without an aeroplane the better!", there would be plenty of those punters who also wish for exactly that. It's no picnic travelling from one side of the globe to the other in cattle class. Especially if you get a crook crew who seem to think of their customers as ****e under their fingernails!

Anyway, I'm sure all pax concerned have reached their desinations and just chalked the whole episode up to bad luck by this stage. However, I am interested in what some of the crewing ramifications of such a lengthy delay were. For instance, was a replacement crew required to operate the aircraft from MEL-SIN due the hour restrictions on the original crew?

And what of the crew that was awaiting in SIN to take the aircraft onto LHR? Did they have to be substituted or did they just get an extra 10hrs in the hotel? Just curious as to how these things might work.

[mostie]

Cabin crew were thrown together by ops at 6pm consisting of SYD and 1 MEL based CC as the original [SYD based] crew were out of hours.

They paxed to MEL and on arrival half the CC gave out blankets, water and spoke with the delayed passengers.

The other half spoke to the people in the FF lounge.

Tech crew [who also paxed from SYD] were unseen until a confirmed take off time was established.

The aircraft finally boarded around 0130 and took of at 0200.

Arrived into SIN around 0700.

Tour of duty for the SYD based cabin crew was over 14 hours.

The CC ex SIN had their call rolled.

Reports from those who were there suggest the ground staff should have handled the situation better........

Rumours suggest that ground handling at MEL is to be outsourced and as such morale is an issue [as it is everywhere operational]

[Bad Adventures]

Yes, well wouldn’t it have been nice if those tech crew got off their lazy arse’s and went down and spent some time with the passengers, especially after experiencing a rejected take off. I’m sure a lot of the passengers would have had some concerns after that experience and being able to have a quick chat would have made a world of difference. They must have been to busy checking their bank balances or talking to their divorce lawyers!

[tipsy2]

Bad Adventures, your post demonstrates how little you know of the process' a mature, experienced airline goes through in circumstances like this. This is futher reinforced by those petulant ideas of what a flight crew might or might not be doing or should (in your mind) be doing. You have obviously not heard of 'Flight & Duty Time Limitations' .

The since removed thread discussing a recent weather related delay in New York degenerated into a child like waffle fest, it seems the same fate awaits this thread as well.

Those of you that are a part of a professional, mature airline won't need any further explanation, as for the rest, you wouldn't understand anyway.:ok:

Its not school holidays again is it ?

tipsy

[radiation junkie]

Your post shows that you and Bad Adventures have absolutely "no idea" and neither of you are part of a professional, mature airline as stated by tipsy2 !

[chockchucker]

Your post shows that you and Bad Adventures have absolutely "no idea" and neither of you are part of a professional, mature airline as stated by tipsy2 !


I certainly didn't mean to tar all QF cabin crew with the same brush, Radiation Junkie. However, it is a common complaint among those who frequently travel QF.


What some of the more jaded members of the QF cabin crew team need to remember is that, despite all the crap that is being thrown their way by QF management, it's us full fare paying passengers that pay their mortgages and keep them employed.


Everybody has bad days from time to time. However, recognise that you chose to be a flight attendant, it's your job make the passengers journey as pleasant as possible and there are a lot of people out there who would love a job like yours.


It doesn't take a lot of effort to go the extra yard in the execution of your duties, yet the impression left on your customers can be quite dramatic.

[TooFiddy]

Why would the pilots be interested in trying to explain anything face-to-face with the punters??

Any well-intentioned attempt at placating 300-odd cranky cattle, who have just suffered an aborted take-off and the additional indignity of having soiled their pants, will inevitably end up with the usual stupid questions (why did you stop, why didn't you just keep going, why didn't you just turn around and try again, why does it take 10hrs just to have a look at the brakes, why can't crew fly 24hr days, you just sit there right??? why.....) and soon followed by mob-actions.

So why TF would the pilots be the least interested in getting involved BA??? That's what YOU are there for, BA, when you're not dispensing peanuts, scowls and bad karma.

BA's obviously been divorced by a couple of pilots in her time... :{

[Hugh Jarse]

I disagree TooFiddly.

Almost any time we have some sort of abnormality, I will go down and do a face-to-face PA from FA1's handset. Admittedly I only have to face 50 punters, not 250.

Of course I'll wait until we're back at the gate and shut down. I'f we taxi back and go straight away I wait until we get to the destination to do the face-to-face.

Never once had any complaints or criticism from the pax. Had a couple of good letters though:oh:

[Capt Claret]

My last RTO was due a birdstrike < 80kts (loudest bang I've heard on an aeroplane :eek: ). Whilst standing in the doorway farewelling the pax (PR a-la Jarse), the most common question was, "why didn't you swerve and avoid it?"

Sheesh. :cool:

[Bolty McBolt]

This is a cut and paste from an email to me from someone whom was on the flight.. Just thought i would pass it on....

“From someone who was there it was obvious that Qantas had no plan or process for something like this happening. (Which surprised me). There is no need to blame cabin crew or pilots when there is obviously no “damage control plan”. From my observations the Cabin crew were above and beyond. All people wanted was to be kept informed, even if it was not good news “this did not happen” , two or three announcements were made over 9hrs. I am sure that Qantas has an IT recovery plan and a whole risk analysis and a database for their business but have no plan or “process” to deal with a delay effecting their income generating business. As a business person myself I am shocked to see something as fundamental as this does not have a process. If they did have a process for delays of this nature, it is a very poor one.

In one word “amateur”. :yuk:

[Sunfish]

I'm just planning my next holiday, and this post demonstrates why Qantas is not going to be any part of it.

I particularly love Too Fiddy's nomenclature of us passengers as "Cranky Cattle". This I guess is an improvement on the term "self loading frieght".

I have personally had a five hour delay thanks to Qantas not having the requisite spare in Mellbourne (in this case a spoiler actuator that started leaking on pushback) so I am not surprised by Qantas's pathetic and ineffectual attempts to do anything for its passengers.

After all guys, its not like we have any choice in the matter. Every other airline is loaded to capacity leaving us no choice. Its not like we can vote with our feet and go somewhere else because you have over 40% of the total capacity.

So once again I hope your Board continues to make crappy decisions until you ***** ( starts with C) go out of business as you so richly deserve to do.

You have no respect for your customers. That is reason enough for your demise.

[tipsy2]

It is all too easy to be critical when one is subject to some inconveniece, especially when you have no control over it. I said earlier and I will say it again:

Those of you that are a part of a professional, mature airline won't need any further explanation, as for the rest, you wouldn't understand anyway.

Perhaps in the headlong descent by those demanding cheaper fares to the level of Low Cost Carriers, should also remember the level of service they deliver. Just ask anyone that has been the subject of a delay/cancellation of a carrier such as Ryanair or the like. Then you might be justified to get all huffy about 'service'.

Maybe some have been watching too much "Airport or Airline", it certainly seems that way.

tipsy

[EPIRB]

Could you please explain why all Qantas employee's are ***** (starts with a C) please Sunfish?

[chockchucker]

probably sour grapes because he wasn't good enough to get a job there.


At least that's what it sounds like.:ok:

[Sunfish]

Actually I worked for Ansett, and we wouldn't wipe our a^&%^e with Qantas. However I refer to your attitude to your customers as "cranky cattle" and "self loading freight" as reasons for my ire.

No other business in Australia - except the Australian Wheat Board and Telstra, can get away with your attitude to your customers.

Translation: Based on your attitude to your customers, you are a ******* disgrace,

[Sunfish]

Woomera: I'm getting sick of this thread. If anything bad attitudes to customers shoulld be punished as well as bad attitudes to staff. I know I am an offender, but these clowns are just plain out of control.

Woomera's Edit:
Sunfish wrote: So once again I hope your Board continues to make crappy decisions until you ***** ( starts with C) go out of business as you so richly deserve to do.
Well, Sunfish, you can't post statements like that and NOT expect a few replies from the troops, can you?

And just because the aforementioned replies aren't what you expected (quite restrained, I might add), you can't chuck a hissy and demand the thread closed.:D

For being inflammatory, you can start your PPRuNe holiday early, courtesy of Woomera (Eastern States).

See you in a month, and don't forget to Slip, Slop, and Slap! ;)

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Not the QANTAS I remember - and I don't think the frontline customer staff, or Tech Crew, deserve the criticism.

The death by a thousand cuts is the grand plan from somehwere much higher - the fruit is just ripening. The staff know it - after all they warned about it and were ignored. Is it any wonder the morale is where it is?

Indeed, where was the contingency plan - and the resources to implement it? Probably VR'ed out about 5 years ago.

[Capt Fathom]

I have personally had a five hour delay thanks to Qantas not having the requisite spare in Mellbourne (in this case a spoiler actuator that started leaking on pushback)
Interesting that a spoiler actuator would start to leak on pushback .. when not in use ?

Naturally there would be no spares in Melbourne. As Sunfish has pointed out on numerous occasions, everything Qantas is centered on Sydney. :E

[B A Lert]

I would put my house on the block to say that EVERYONE at Qantas would have turned themselves inside-out to minimise the impact of the RTO on their customers. Many 'experts' appear to forget that running an airline is one of the most complex daily operations known to man. As everything usually goes according to the book day upon day, we are take this so much for granted and have difficulty in accepting the fact that on some occasions things do go haywire. Critics can be assured the the guys and girls in Operations Control, other back-of-office departments and Airports & Engineering, not to mention crews, do not sit around and think of how they can further disrupt their customers - quite the contrary. For example, does anyone here know if the lack of a suitable slot or ground handling considerations in Singapore or London may have prolonged the delay?

Most of the negative posts here, and on other disruption related threads, show the immaturity and ignorance of those who purport to know better. Sure, every disruption could have been better handled with the benefit of hindsight but until we know all of the factors mitigating against quick resolution, then it may be better to shut up.

[Sunfish]

OK Fathom, I'll bite. We spent an hour on the aircraft in Melbourne waiting to see if a spare and an engineer could be found. We were then transhipped to Sydney and reloaded. I only arrived in New Orleans five hours late, but since this was on "Fat Tuesday", and I arrived at midnight and missed all the "fun":E , I was somewhat miffed.

Really, referring to customers as "self loading freight" or "Cranky Cattle" is not a good look for supposed "professionals", a point I never tire of making.

To put it another way, how would you feel if a medical specialist or surgeon referred to you as "dumb meat"?

[Bad Adventures]

Wow! Nothing like a bit of bait to fire up the ole tight arse social cripples up in the nose, what a laugh! Come in spinner!!:}

[Turbo 5B]

Naturally there would be no spares in Melbourne. As Sunfish has pointed out on numerous occasions, everything Qantas is centered on Sydney.
Try ordering anything for H/m sydney mate. All the spares are in Melbourne.

[rammel]

With all the staff cuts MEL has barely enough staff to cover the schedule. When something happens such as this, there is no one extra to do anything. I was there for part of the delay and what I saw was the new ETD kept changing. First it was 1hr then 2 hrs and so on. It should have been handled better, but I don't think management will learn from their mistakes.

[jaded boiler]

Sunfish despite your tedious asinine bleatings, and no doubt much to your chagrin, that wonderful airline and proud national icon Qantas will continue to thrive and prosper. The ***** employed by it will continue to enjoy relatively high wages and an above average standard of living, even though they might have a spit now and again, and the vast majority of its customers will come away satisfied by their experience.

[enicalyth]

Don't ever call me a swearword that begins with a C.

Ever.

No matter what your feelings are I expect better behaviour from you than that.

Enjoy your holiday!

[Deejay 1]

Given that flying is supposedly all about numbers ie if they all don't add up you don't take off, then given the amount of total Qantas movements per hour, per day, per week, per month, per year, 1 RTO seems to have galvanised all sorts of comments.
Anyone care to work out what the percentage this might be.

One can always start quoting RPK's, ASK's to make it look better or worse I suppose, remembering there are lies, damned lies and statistics!

Having had to face pax off a flight where the gear light indicated "an issue", with fly rounds, past the tower, the firies all lined up just in case, you read it and act the best way possible to ensure inconvenience, disruption etc are kept to a minimum.

Given that we are all humans, things can tend to go wrong occasionally - stones and glass houses anyone????

[Bolty McBolt]

To add fuel to the fire..
I dont like to trash the company but....

On the QF9 there were 20 + wheel chair assist pax on board many of which were elderly and infirm whom were "dumped" after being removed fom the aircraft.
One lady in her nineties was wheeled off the plane an plonked in a transit lounge chair for 9 hours and given no attention at all until aided by fellow pax when she was found confused crying in said chair.

Its a disgrace.

[3 slips and a gully]

and the vast majority of its customers will come away satisfied by their experience.
Really?

Some of us that that can see beyond the nationalistic branding and patriotic hoopla are not satisfied.

In the last decade, QF customer service has deteriorated markedly. I have QF lounge access but fly Air NZ across the Pacific. Why? compared to Air Canada, Air NZ, JAL, MAS, BA (long haul flag carriers) etc etc, QF service is by far the worst of them all on long flights.

[Millski]

I agree with you 3 slips.
Attitude,Attitude,Attitude:zzz:

[B A Lert]

Actually I worked for Ansett, and we wouldn't wipe our a^&%^e with Qantas.

That'd be right Sunnfish ...your defunct outfit couldn't afford the stuff of which you write let alone Qantas.


you are a ******* disgrace

These are Sunfish's own wise words, no doubt written about himself after libelling in such a vile way everyone at Qantas.

[QF Galley Rat]

You are an insipid little man Sunfish. I found your comments most offensive to the extreme and am extremely dissapointed that the moderators see fit to leave your comments on this public forum.

[Woomera]

Never fear. Mr. Sunfish has a month's leave from PPRuNe to contemplate his navel - and his future here.

A repeat performance gets life.:* for him and any re-incarnations.

The reason I left the offending posts up is to demonstrate to you the true colours of the originator.

[jaded boiler]

Yeah, really, 3 slips. Some, such as yourself, are not satisfied for what ever reason, the vast majority are.

[B A Lert]

Woomera...while not making excuses for Sunnie's intemperate and inexcusable outbursts, it just occurred to me that there may be a reason for them that are not immediately apparent. In another forum Sunnie indicated that his Dad had died recently. While it's obvious that Sunnie has a "real thing" about Qantas, Melbourne and Sydney but maybe his grief over the loss of his father has further distorted his thinking and the making of the wretched comments? Just a thought.

Cheers.:ok:

[1DC]

No comment on the incident because i wasn't there or involved but whenever i have flown Qantas i have found the cabin crew very professional and efficient, because of this Qantas is my airline of choice when i am in Australia.Long haul is different, seat pitch too small in economy and business depends upon the price.Qantas are becoming more competitive in business on the UK/Oz run but not quite there yet.,, for self payers like me..
I am rather surprised that this thread has run for so long..

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Woomera, after the banning of Sunfish for one month for using a foul, abusive term, can The Enema Bandit be allowed back please seeing that he was banned last May for a lesser offence? Please? :)

[Turbo 5B]

"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never fear. Mr. Sunfish has a month's leave from PPRuNe to contemplate his navel - and his future here.

A repeat performance gets life. for him and any re-incarnations.

The reason I left the offending posts up is to demonstrate to you the true colours of the originator.
__________________
Team Woomera
Dunnunda & Godzone Moderators"
I wish you'd left mine up when I got banned last month. I couldn't for the life of me remember what I'd posted.
But I reckon it was true, as i don't post untruths on this form.

[3 slips and a gully]

Some, such as yourself, are not satisfied for what ever reason, the vast majority are.
You keep thinking that deary and all will be fine.

1DC nailed it succinctly...No comment on the incident because i wasn't there or involved but whenever i have flown Qantas i have found the cabin crew very professional and efficient, because of this Qantas is my airline of choice when i am in Australia.Long haul is different, seat pitch too small in economy and business depends upon the price.Qantas are becoming more competitive in business on the UK/Oz run but not quite there yet.,, for self payers like me..

Your service/attitude jaded boiler is not worth the fare paid. Air Canada went into bankruptcy protection before its customer service people saw the writing on the wall and flight attendants started treating customers as paying guests as opposed to cattle on a freight run. Air Canada are now on the way back with ex-clients returning to the fold. What will it take for your attitude to change?

A case(s) in point...
On the QF9 there were 20 + wheel chair assist pax on board many of which were elderly and infirm whom were "dumped" after being removed fom the aircraft.
One lady in her nineties was wheeled off the plane an plonked in a transit lounge chair for 9 hours and given no attention at all until aided by fellow pax when she was found confused crying in said chair.

Its a disgrace.

[jaded boiler]

I will keep thinking that sonny, and all will be fine. I didn't realise that it was my service/attitude that was a problem as I'm not in the employ of QF. Maybe Mavis and Berryl are unhappy with my scones and the tea cosies I use at our CWA meetings, have they said something to you? Cabin service standards are obviously important, but they are not the sole driver of customer satisfaction.