Clearing in...it's all rubbish!!

[flybywire]

Hi guys.

I am still at work and have just come off what my company calls a "revolutionary" new service.
Apparently this new service in economy class should be so easy that only one crew member would be able to serve food, serve drinks to 131 passengers, and do the duty free service in just over an hour. Today though, we had the full complement (lucky us!) as the crew complement will be reduced in a few days' time.

I feel the frustration is catching up with me so I apologise in advance for :mad:s and :{s !!!

The new breakfast service was soooooooo slow and guess what, on some of our planes (-300 series) they do notload Waste Carts. How I am supposed to clear in???? It's impossible to use the meal cart to clear in the whole cabin as what we give out occupies at least twice as much once it has been consumed. Our static waste bins have been sealed off, and we can't use them.

We thought of using a fire bag with a waste bag inside but as you can imagine clearing in while pulling that along the cabin isn't either convenient, quick or indeed professional!!!!:mad: Also no fire bags were loaded to start with so our flight was delayed to wait for what is a safety requiremement!!!!!!!
We ended up clearing in with trays and cardboard boxes by hand, emptying the content into the fire bags that we left in the galleys.:{
The rubbish was like multiplying itself everywhere.......I got showered in a mixture of fruit syrup and scrambled egg YUK :yuk: And we get told off by some SCCMs if we try to use disposable gloves when handling waste as it doesn't look "glamorous"!!!!!!!!:mad:
I don't put my hands in the rubbish while I am at home, why should I put up with tons of rubbish everywhere when I am at work???

The department who is in charge of this apparently knows we have this problem but obviously they think we can put up with it every sector every day :{

During the drinks service a kid injured himself badly (cut his lips) and was bleeding quite a lot. So my colleague kept doing all the drinks on her own while I was trying to help his mother, trying to stop the bleeding, writing an incident report etc. It feels it's all a bit of a joke....while I appreciate that the aviation industry needs these cutbacks and that the a/c can be fully evacuated with min. crew on board, I feel at a loss, as it's in moments when pax need us (like that poor little kid) that an extra pair of hands and an extra brain are extremely useful and very important.:sad:

Again, sorry for this but I needed to get it off my chest...now I can go home and I will get on with it, tomorrow and for the rest of my flying days!!

Who needs counsellors when I have got you guys ;)

FBWxxx

[smile]

And we get told off by some SCCMs if we try to use disposable gloves when handling waste as it doesn't look "glamorous"!!!!!!!!


Catching nasty stuff from pax isn't too "glamorous" either. Gastro, conjunctivitis, the common cold etc. I won't give the "OK" to board unless we have plenty of rubber gloves onboard.

[Gatwick07]

Someone in management has clearly made a stupid decision. I'd get in touch with the union on this one!!

[flyer83]

I did one of said flights yesterday too, and with 4 crew its easy as pie but with 3 crew. one down the back looking after 130 odd people its gonna be interesting. We did have one gash at both ends of the aircraft on a 500 but a total of 6 bars one of which was totally full of water, which we didnt even use as we decided to pour water and juice. Those juice boxes are just embarrasing to give out

Our unions have been very quiet over this whole thing, not a single thing from the union i'm a part of dunno about the other one.

Well I have 3 long flights next week one which is always busy and demanding so i'll be interested to see how we cope with one crew member less...

[flyblue]

We had exactly the same problems 2 years ago when we changed the Medium Haul services completely (to rearrange it at -1 CC).
1 Month of complete madness, followed by 2 Months of insanity, which in turn were followed by 3 Months of adjusting and stabilizing. Things changed and adjusted over time. The Cabin Chiefs wrote tons of Cabin Reports, and eventually the geniuses in the offices got tired of reading always the same things and changed the standards. The positive thing was that the Supervisors sent by the company to monitor the timings and feasibility told us not to overdo it and rush too much because they needed to check the normal situation, taking also into account the problems that might arise in the cabin. Let's also say that we were very good at sending the Supervisor's way every passenger with a complaint :E A Cabin Chief told me about an occasion on which the whole Business class pax had given the Supervisor back their fidelity card :ugh:

Be patient, it will take a little time, but it will fix.

[flybywire]

Hi guys....

thanks for the nice words. I only wish our unions were proper unions. Instead they :mad: up the company management....if at least they had agreed to it if the company de-linked the longest doubles!! you give something to get something!!! (BTW double=four sectors)
I am flying to Naples and Glasgow tomorrow, 11hrs 35minutes duty, fix turnarounds (35mins - no getting off the plane) all the way through. Do they want some blood too??? How is it going to be when it's only one person looking after 131 pax on their own, for four sectors without any break???:eek:

Flyblue, like you I have been sending reports since the launch. Every flight a report saying what is good (apparently the quality of the food is slightly better, but man, you need a microscope to find your breakfast :{ ) and what is really, really bad. Unfortunately the "trials" they did were unsuccessful from many points of view (including go-arounds due to cabin checks not completed in time) but without any consultations with us, they decided to go ahead and implement the changes.

The problem is that those people who come up with "innovative" ways to save money, sit on their lovely bums all day long in an office that doesn't move and haven't got a clue!!!!! One person doing tea and coffee on the bar trolley, starting from row 5 all the way down...how many times are we supposed to pull the cart up and down from the rear galley to get back-up teas and coffees? Those carts are heavy!! Also imagine how many people usually queue in the aisle at any one time....:{ :{

I am totally for min crew operation IF the service we give is appropriate to the crewing levels and can be done quickly, safely and I can attend to pax/situations that need my attention in a calm way without feeling overwhelmed!! Also we need proper breaks!! So I will send in feedback until they start listening.:zzz:

We'll do it, I know we will, you're right flyblue....but gosh I have never seen the crew so down in my whole flying career. Hopefully we'll soon see some changes, we'll get used to it and it will become the norm. But not before they put back onboard some stirrers...I will get burnt if I keep stirring my tea with my finger!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Patience....;)

FBW

[TFlyguy]

OK I have to ask - what company are you guys talking about?

[flyer83]

Very well said FBW, bring the ice tongs back too, as on my little jaunt we werent allowed them down the back as apparently Ice isnt needed anymore :(

I am gonna be putting something into the union about it as I cant believe they agreed that one person is ok to sort out 131 people with drinks, no matter how small the cups are one pot of hot stuff wont suffice and we arent allowed to leave our carts to go back to the galley! Also those on board forms will be flying in thick and fast too! However i'm sure we will manage some how, we always do, I'll be the one with the frazzled smile on my face:}

I'm looking forward to my CTA next week:uhoh:

Oh and its BA we are discussing

[QFboi_MEL]

BA?????
what a/c type is it? to have only 3 crew crewing the flight... is it only 3 crew in Y or 3 crew on the whole a/c???????
sounds ridicilous, even we don't have that little crew compliment and our airline is famous for cost cutting

[sinala1]

even we don't have that little crew compliment and our airline is famous for cost cutting

When I was flying long haul, I was in the crew bus on the way from Manhattan to JFK airport. Due to transport strikes and bad traffic, our airline shared our bus that day with some pilots from Delta - they were saying their B737-800's are crewed with only 3 crew due to pax capacity only being 148! :ooh: (I cant recall if they were referring to Delta a/c or Song a/c)

3 Crew on an aircraft with 8 exits... hmmm :suspect:

[TFlyguy]

The overwing exits on the 737 are "self help" exits - ie the passengers open them

[yellowdog]

FBW,
I'm not sure I understand why one crew member is going to look after 131 pax by themselves?

If you have a config of 13/131 with three crew most pursers, me included, will look after the 13 by themselves and leave two crew to do the 131 with drinks.

If the purser insists on two crew members looking after 13 then they are selfish, stupid and unworthy of being a purser.

I can see problems when the club load goes up past, say, 25 but here's what I plan to do and hopefully so will all the other pursers with an ounce of common.

Preflight I will ask the number 3 to do my SEP checks, while I set up the galley, I know where everything is then so I don't have to bother the number 3 during he flight.

Then send the 3 to the back to help set up the rear galley and get a cup of tea.

On boarding the 3 will help in the front galley with the boarding process.
During the flight the 2 and 3 will give out sandwiches followed by drinks, using the bottles and cartons. Flyer 83 why pour? It takes loads more time and it isn't standard. If it looks bad thats the companys to do, not ours.

During this time I can do Club drinks and Club food for anything up to 25ish by myself. If it goes above that then the number 2/3 will have to come and help after the traveller drinks, leaving one person to clear in.

The pursers will have to be strong and not allow any drinks from Club to go down the back, will have to work harder in Club and will have to do everthing to standard.

We can only do what the company want us to do, with a smile and a laugh and if the passengers complain, smile don't take it personally, and give them a comments card. That's what I intend on doing to keep my sanity.

Keep chilled and smiling, don't take it personnally

YD

[flyer83]

YD - the service guidelines state that one person is to stay down the back and deal with the masses whilst the other 2 are at the front in club.

And as for pouring it takes all of 5 seconds and it cuts down on the massive amount of wastage all these single bottles will provide. I know aviation isnt the most environmentally friendly of industries but i'd like to think that sometimes we can reduce the amount of waste we generate instead of increase it.

[yellowdog]

flyer 83,
are you really expecting 2 people to look after 13 and one to do 131:eek:

why pour when you've got what you need to hand over it takes 2 seconds! It takes less time to set up, no trolley top, just an ice bucket, it's what the company wants and the passengers seem really happy when you hand them over a sealed bottle of water rather than a poured glass.

If the company want to take people from the service why make work for yourself and the crew. Do it as they want you to. Make the passengers happy in other ways. I know when I travel it's not the standard of the food that impresses me it's the attitude and pleasantness of the crews that matters.

Isn't there just as much waste using the plastic cups to pour into compared to the OJ cartons.

I did the MAD yesterday with 15/110 and the whole service was done in about 40 min. No complaints from the passengers, the crew said the service was easy, and everyone was happy.

YD

[flyer83]

flyer 83,
are you really expecting 2 people to look after 13 and one to do 131:eek:
why pour when you've got what you need to hand over it takes 2 seconds! It takes less time to set up, no trolley top, just an ice bucket, it's what the company wants and the passengers seem really happy when you hand them over a sealed bottle of water rather than a poured glass.
If the company want to take people from the service why make work for yourself and the crew. Do it as they want you to. Make the passengers happy in other ways. I know when I travel it's not the standard of the food that impresses me it's the attitude and pleasantness of the crews that matters.
Isn't there just as much waste using the plastic cups to pour into compared to the OJ cartons.
I did the MAD yesterday with 15/110 and the whole service was done in about 40 min. No complaints from the passengers, the crew said the service was easy, and everyone was happy.
YD

You misunderstand me.. I don't expect it but why should it even be in print that we are supposed to do it. The vast majority wont expect it as its just really odd, but whats the point in publishing service guidelines which don't reflect the service offered as then its not going to be anything like a consistent service.

Which I guess brings me on to pouring, That was a choice by the crew on that particular flight, however I just do what i'm told to by the person at the front, so i'll be doing what i'm told as from monday and giving out those schoolboy boxes! :ok: and you are totally right with the wastage thing too, I didn't think about all the plastic we are wasting with cups! :ooh: Sometimes the bigger picture eludes me :=

[cabingal]

It's not on that. I'd like to see the "faceless decision makers do all that". I spend an absolute fortune on antibacterial gels! :ugh:

[QFboi_MEL]

So with 3 crew, does the purser do the safety demo as well???? on our B737-800 we have a minimum compliment of 5 crew and 1 csm but in extreme circumstances we can do with 4 crew and 1 csm. what normally happens is there is CSM and number 2 do J/C, and 3 , 4, 5, 6 do Y/C service

[sinala1]

Tflyguy - I am aware that they are self help exits, however the airline I work for has 5 crew on the B738, one of whom is to look after the overwing exits in the event of an emergency.

QFBoiMel - Sorry mate I cant answer that! Not entirely sure...

[TFlyguy]

Oh ok - in my company no crew sit by these exits

[flybywire]

YEllowdog....

The other day my flight was delayed 45 mins because on the -300 there are NO gash carts loaded. We had no fire bags and we had to wait for them to turn up, then wait for another tug to come and push us back! Flight crews are getting a bit upset too as they are blamed for it!!!

What I am saying is: BA wants 3 crew (and for everyone's info, it's not all Y but C as well) I am up for it. But give me the tools to deliver an efficient and quick service.

I don't remember completing so many on-board forms in my whole life. I hope they will help.
People in product KNOW that the -300's have this problem and yet are doing FA about it, and that drives me insane!!!

It is a personal issue, YD, as I have had a visceral love for this company since I was 14...My friends still call me missba...but I can see that the excellent service we used to offer is going down, and that upsets me!!

Just finished a long double and our NAP passengers weren't pleased to say the least. At one point a woman gave us so much grief, and she stormed off the a/c screaming the food was crap and worse than a charter flight (whatever that meant to her).:\ Not a nice thing to hear I have to say! I want my passengers to be happy and to think that our airline is the best!:ouch:

Just to say we were on a 11h45m duty and the cabin crew were fantastic. The best I've had for ages, we kept ourselves happy the whole time, crap service or not. We were happy that this time it was still 4 of us, the atmosphere on board was superb and the day passed by quickly.
YD I'm getting on with this new thing as I have always done. But please let me Pprune my dissatisfaction and my frustration!! I do it here, not at work. Who knows me knows that I am never "in a mood" when I am at work. Passengers only receive the best of me, even on a day like today. I leave my frustration outside JH.

You're very good if you help the N.3 with galley preps....I always choose to work as N.4 if I can and very rarely the N.1 helps with it. I respect my colleagues very much but unfortunately this is the truth. Don't misunderstand me please, I do not mind at all, I love keeping myself busy at all times, but you're one of the few remaining ones who actually do it. :ok:

Also the new "service guidelines" say that the SCCM must allocate some time for rest during the day.....I cannot wait to see that happen on days like today!! I'll wait and see......

Hopefully this period of chaos will end soon and we'll see some improvements.
I am off on my first min crew trip tomorrow, I've got an open mind and am curious to see what happens...especially with the N.2 having to do a "catwalk" from row 4 to row 25 to show each safety equipment item to everybody!!! there are some funny times ahead of us... :E

Good night guys, and sorry for this super-long post!

xxx

FBW

[ditzyboy]

QFboi -
QF use 4 FAs and 1 CSM on 738s... Is that what you mean? Would be nice to have 6 on the 738s but is is not standard practice.

[QFboi_MEL]

sorry my bad typo :oh:
yeah what i meant was 5 crew incl csm

[ditzyboy]

Was going to say... Thought I was being ripped off as all the 738 flights I crew only have 5 CC! :)
So this new, revolutionary, contemporary, dynamic, innovatice service at BA. What does it specifically entale? What happens when the Club class config is high?

EDITED to include the word 'innovative'... :hmm: You will find this word and 'contemporary' in EVERY Qantas press release regarding product.

[ozangel]

I remember we helped another airline introduce a new type into their fleet, and as part of the arrangement, we had cabin managers up there for about 6months. I was one of them.

Was only operating on two routes, a 30minute domestic flight with a snack service (8J/92Y) and a 50minute international flight, 8J/92Y as well as the 3 pilots in the flight deck expecting their lunch service on the flight.

We had 3 flighties. The 30min sector was no issues, although you got ultra strong arms, as you walked down the aisle with a standard unit drawer stacked with prepack juice and handed it out. Business class was a simple sandwich.

The 50min intl sector though, was a nightmare.
There was the normal intl paperwork to be completed. In economy, they got a full free bar, hot meal served on a tray with proper cutlery, the meal itself was your typical long haul hot meal with salad and desert and breadroll.

Up the front was 8 business class, and despite the seats being nothing majorly special, the service was insane.

The wine was supposed to be done as a separate service (the airline took great pride in its wine rightly so), and then after that, there was duty free to sell. Now you would think duty free would not take long, but these guys were selling cartons of cigarettes for $16aud. Whats more if it didnt get done, the local crew who made up the rest of the crew, got in trouble. On top of that, if there was anything missing from the cart, the crew had to pay for it - so pre and post flight was a lengthy inventory check. Add to that, we had to do the de-insect spray at top of descent, which was nice for those finishing their meals. Eventually they got the residual spray!

The flights were always full, as CM, we ran the galley, cooked the meals, did business class/pilots, and I used to get into economy and do tea and coffee following the cart, in between clearing business and pilots. Then one of the local crew would do duty free, while we cleared, which was done without an ounce of grace as the trays were slammed into the carts. We had nowhere to stow the rubbish bag (no toilet up front, no cupboard up front), so it was either in the loos, or cramming it into the coat locker!

I know of one girl whos flight landed with the last 6 rows having their meal trays shoved in the seat pocket.

It was only after a month that enough crew kicked up a stink, they put an audit on my flight - the local girls said they picked me as the 'sleepers' on the other flights told management that my flights usually ran 'smoothly chaotic', as opposed to some of the others which were complete chaos!

We ended up getting a 4th crew member on those flights, made it easier!

(on a side note, was great fun flying with those guys, as they really came out of their shell. They had a very strict management, scales in the crew room, and to me it was like the military! Of course, my company was very casual in its dealings with staff, so we had a great time at work. They told me when I left that it was such a nice change to have laughter in the crew rooms, and fun at work, without fear of getting in trouble!)