Typhoon 618 Squadron.

[ChrisVJ]

I know this is where to find out things. I have finally scanned in the third of only three pictures I have of Sqdn Ldr Eric Vernon-Jarvis. I think 1944, 618 Squadron. He is the chap holding the prop. Any one know anything I'd be happy to hear.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/ChrisVJ/Typhoon3.jpg

Thanks, ChrisVJ

[jindabyne]

Looking at that prop, there can't have been much clearance from the runway when the tail came up? Or is it perspective?

[Moose47]

[quote=ChrisVJ]I know this is where to find out things. I have finally scanned in the third of only three pictures I have of Sqdn Ldr Eric Vernon-Jarvis. I think 1944, 618 Squadron. He is the chap holding the prop. Any one know anything I'd be happy to hear.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/ChrisVJ/Typhoon3.jpg

Hi Chris

65545 Squadron Leader Eric Horace Anthony Vernon-Jarvis DFC was shot down by German flak near Dorenthe on the 3rd of February 1945. He was flying a Tiffy Mk. Ib s/n RB270 with No. 618 (FB) Squadron. I have conflicting information suggesting that he was the Commanding Officer. Other sources have Squadron Leader L H Lambert assuming command in October 1944 and retaining it until the squadron disbanded at Eindhoven, Netherlands on the 26th of February, 1945. Incidentally, this assumption of command corresponded with the squadron being re-equipped with the Tiffy and being transferred to No. 143 (FB) Wing of the 2nd Tactical Air Force at B. 78 (Eindhoven, Netherlands). The squadron went from a low-level fighter reconnaissance to a fighter-bomber role.

Squadron Leader Vernon-Jarvis was the husband of Pauline Billie Vernon-Jarvis from Hampton Hill, Middlesex. He peacfully rests in Plot 18.C.8 of the Commonwealth War Dead section of the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery which is located five km south-west of Kleve.

If I can be of any further assistance, please feel free to e-mail me at: ccharlandATcogecodotca

Cheers...Chris

[chevvron]

jindabayne: I understand from an ex Typhoon driver that you had to be very careful not to get the tail too high on takeoff or you would hit the ground with the prop.

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Which way did that prop turn? :confused:


The uniforms don't looked reversed.






I guess it wasn't considered humourous to shout 'Clear' when those photos were being taken. :ooh:

[Archimedes]

The squadron is number 168 Sqn rather than 618, I suspect (618 flew the 'Highball' Mosquitos).


Just to support/add to Moose47's post -

Shores and Thomas, 2nd Tactical Air Force (Volume 3) says for 3 Feb 45 (p.412):

" Several Typhoons were also hit [by flak], 168 Squadron's Sqn Ldr ECH [sic] Vernon-Jarvis, who had just taken command of the unit having earlier flown with 193 and 175 Squadrons, being shot down and killed near Doreuthe [sic]." They list the loss as being at approx 1135, in Typhoon RB270. The spelling of the place of loss changes in this daily loss list to that given by Moose.

Cross referencing with Shores and Thomas's 'Typhoon and Tempest Story' (where Sqn Ldr Vernon-Jarvis' initials are again given as 'ECH') it would seem that Sqn Ldr LH Lambert was in command of 168 from mid-1944 until February 1945. In their list of squadron commanders, we have for 168 Sqn:

Sqn Ldr LH Lambert (Sept 44) - Feb 45 B.66
Sqn Ldr ECH Vernon-Jarvis DFC Feb 45 - Feb 45 B.78

Going back to the 2TAF book, on p.406 there is mention of Flt Lt ECH Vernon-Jarvis of 168 Sqn destroying a Bf 109.

As a supposition, then, it would seem that the-then Flt Lt Vernon Jarvis was appointed to take command of 168 Sqn on promotion, and either:

1. He was killed within 48-72 hours of doing so.

2. He had been promoted, but Sqn Ldr Lambert had not handed over command when Sqn Ldr Vernon-Jarvis was shot down

3. Sqn Ldr Lambert had not been posted when Sqn Ldr Vernon-Jarvis was killed, and was re-appointed as Sqn CO.

I suspect that (3) is the most likely option if Sqn Ldr Lambert is listed as being in command when the unit was disbanded. Although Shores and Thomas seem to get Sqn Ldr Vernon-Jarvis' initials wrong (or does the other source), they are consistent in Volumes 1 & 3 of the 2TAF work (mentioned in both volumes), and in the entry in the Typhoon and Tempest story.

A check of the 168 Squadron war diary at the National Archives should sort out the confusion, I'd guess.

[gbh]

By chance I happen to have a copy of 168 Sqn's F540 for Jan 45 and it records that Flt Lt EHC Vernon-Jarvis shot down a ME 109 on 22 Jan 45 and also attacked a loco near Munster and motorised transport near Nijmegen on 23 Jan.
I also have F540 and 541 for Dec 44 and there is no mention of Vernon-Jarvis that month (which was when my Dad was flying with the Sqn. He always said that he was glad that he managed to arrange a posting away from 168 Sqn at the end of Dec because the sqn subsequently took heavy losses and was disbanded as a result. He also said he didn't like their food and mealtimes, which were aimed at the largely Canadian contingent!)

[ChrisVJ]

Small World gbh

I have no idea when the picture was taken. I read recently that losses in Typhoons early in 1945 were some of the heaviest air losses in the war, mostly engaged in low level ground attack. Eric VJ was 27 or 28 at the time he died and had flown from almost the beginning of the war but I don't have any of his previous history and the Inet does not toss it out. One day I'll get to London again and see if I can do some research.

He was, in fact, English, his father was with the army that went to relieve Gordon at Khartoum and then they lived in Cairo. He went to school in Cairo but Uni at Cambridge before the war. Slowly piecing the story together over the years.

[gbh]

Chris - From my Dad's logbook, as a footnote to his time on 168:
'Joe Stubbs killed Jan 1st, also Gibbons I, Gibbons II, Roy Plant, Vasco Gilbert, Derek Dickson a POW. Len Lambert's successor on his first trip as C.O. also Willie Huddart.'
So this would confirm that S/L V-J was killed as soon as he took command of the Sqn and, (since my Dad did not know his name) that he probably joined the Sqn in January.
The whole story will undoubtably be in the Public Archives at Kew - good luck with your search!

[gbh]

Photo looks too warm and dry to be Jan/Feb in Germany so I'd put my money on it being 175 Sqn 1944?
(168 Sqn no operational flying 2,3,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,15,16,17,18,19,26,27,30,31 Jan due to snow/mist/lowcloud. Sqn diary records snowball fights as the order of the day.)

[ChrisVJ]

gbh
Good point. Not shirt sleeve order but no great coats or flying jackets either. Could have been a previous posting at some more clement time of year.

[gbh]

Indeed, and jaunty angle of pistol holster slung low on hip would suggest pilots in a ground war environment in Europe after the invasion rather than UK? (guaranteed to 'wind up' the RAF regiment chaps - there's nothing more dangerous than a pilot with a loaded pistol!)
Chris - check your PM for further info.

[TD&H]

For Aaaaaaarghs benefit:

Yes, the prop does turn the way it looks in the photo. This may seem strange to Americans and people brought up on Spamcans and their engines. But quite a few Britsh (and other nationality) engines turn that way, from the low powered Gypsy of Tiger Moth fame to the Centaurus in the Tiffie and Tempest. RR Merlins (mostly) turn the American way, but RR Griffons turn the same way as the Centaurus, that is disregarding the contra-props of course.

Did cause some confusion to pilots changing from a Merlin engined Spitfire to a late mark Griffon powered one, set the rudder trim the wrong way and you could be in for trouble!

Bit of a thread drift, sorry:

Heard a lovely story from an RAF Group Captain, 18 or so kills to his name, Spitfires throughout the war and after. Loud mouth 'merican pilot (I fly Mustangs type) scrounges a flight from him in a Griffon powered Spitfire. Told to only use +4 or so pounds boost (go on ask what that translates to!) on take off and to watch for the swing, both direction and amount. Our friend decides he knows better, so just about firewalls the throttle, manages to get airborne, but then disappears almost sideways between the hangars trying hard to conter-act the torque. Somewhat ashen faced and humbled pilot finally manages to get down in one piece and wanders off still trying to understand what had happened!:E

[Cranswick]

The squadron photo is posed in front of a Typhoon with underwing identity stripes (ie. not 'invasion stripes'). These were removed from Typhoons in February 1944 .... so the squadron is almost certainly 175 Squadron. Vernon-Jarvis had previously flown with 193 Squadron but I don't see any of their personnel in this photo.

Chris VJ - I am sending you a private message.

[Brian Abraham]

TD&H, I think it was Rolly Beaumont who told a similiar story of his first ride in a Typhoon and the exciting ride around the circuit after winding in rudder trim the wrong way prior to take off.

[brickhistory]

The number of accidents when the four squadrons of American Beaufighters underwent type conversion adds to this thread creep. Used to the props swinging the other way, many newly minted 'Merican pilots (as TD&H so eloquently phrased it) pilots got bitten and trashed perfectly good Beaus before becoming operational.

[DiverMikeD]

Hi Guys
Interesting thread about the 'Tiffies' etc. For some more realism with regards to their operation, testing etc, try and get a copy of Roland Beamonts book "Against the Sun" written by Edward Lanchberry and printed by Cassel & Co Ltd (1955) (no ISBN No) Excellent read.

Regards to all.