Australia - How long from CPL to job?

[Rotorchick]

I have never been under the illusion that making a career for myself flying choppers was ever going to be easy for any number of reasons.:bored:
Now I have a sense of humor and have taken a good few hits in the past two years and have been lucky enough to scrounge an R44 rating and a small amount of hours since gaining my CPL.
What I would really like to know is how long it took those guys/gals out there to land that job that keeps you in the air on a regular basis?
Thanks

[canterbury crusader]

I thought no more than two back in the day

[Helibloke]

I'm not sure of your situation or where you are based at the moment. However, in the bush areas most of the new pilots are getting jobs if they wait it out for a while. I honestly dont think there is a better time for being up north hanging around than the start of this year. I know at least 3 pilots being taken on in the past few months one had some hours the others just out of training.
If you are in a major centre my advice is move to a smaller place. Say Katherine/Alice/broome/ etc. Non flying jobs are very easy to get in these places, go and see the operators, let them know your in town and are STAYING not just passing through. You will find doors opening for you if they need a pilot and you are the chick on the doorstep.
Dont think that when you call and they say the are full that wont change, almost every pilot I know is always looking for something better to come along and there is alot of movement at the moment.
Endorsement to have are still R44/Bell 47 and R22.
Obviously no guarantees but head north and give it a go, you wont regret it.
Took me a while to get a job but that is because I didnt go north!
Bloke:}

[Rotorchick]

Thanks guys :O ....
The only thing to do is keep on, keepin on with a chippawa attitude.;)

Heliguy - I have just in recent weeks made the trip up north, although its east coast, so fingers crossed, I'll stick around and if all else fails will just have to save up again and head into the big red west.

Humm maybe a leather jacket purchase would help the proceedings?:8

[SASless]

Maybe we ought to talk about landing that job that keeps you in food...and beer on a regular basis.

[Rotorchick]

I have a very wise friend who once told me "Don't be lazy & always cover yourself" I have always made sure that I had that job that paid for my dinner, beer & flying. :ok:

[SIGHTGLASS]

Thought about the Army rotorchick ??
Great bucks, best flying, good mates ? If you can jump through the hoops to get in it's a great start to any RW career.
Recruiting now !

[rotorboy]

I started chasing jobs before I was finished training. I had one a the day my cfi was done. The only time I have been unemployed since then is when I want to be. That said, the first couple of years were rough, living in the Toyota truck, ramen for dinner, drinking the cheapest beer you could find and picking up and moving a the drop of a hat for the next step up the ladder.

After a couple of years the income started to go up drasticly, but that is still with working more than I would like.

Hang in there, dont be afraid to move on for a better gig, create your own oppertunity, take a little risk ( with the unknown not your flying), network like a SOB, live the dream.

Buena Suerte,

RB
Oh Flying interferes replationships
Utility Pilot: Long Term Relationship with member of opposite sex= 2 dates

[cyclical]

A few other suggestions:

Join www.whirlygirls.org (http://www.whirlygirls.org) ; Australian Womens Pilot Association and Women in Aviation International, these all have good annual scholarship programs which will help build ratings & time. Also, sit as many exams eg IREX and ATPL . Helis are addictive, nothing much else beats this type of flying!

[ReDude]

rotorchick do u have lowlevel and mustering endorsed?

[Rocketfuel]

Sightglass - I feel I'd be too old to go into the army, even though I am hardly passed it I'm not sure they would want me.. It is awesome training and flying but I think I'll stay a civie. :)

Cyclical - Cheers for that! I like how one of the aims is to "foster friendship", Credit to them and websites like pprune.

ReDude - Alot of the flying I've done in NZ is low level, but it is not an endorsement there, what do I have to do to get that and a mustering rating?

[Bomber ARIS]

Rotorchick - probably best to stick to just the one PPRuNe name :}

[Rotorchick]

Yeah right... computer sharing, had a moment - what can you do?:\

[rotaryman]

No Such thing as a Low level endoresment in Australia either!!:}

many Pilots speak of them but i am yet to see One!!!

[Red Wine]

It's been a few years since I posted advice to all the new comers entering the Industry.
I feel its worthwhile repeating my views:

Whilst it’s a competitive industry, all potential pilots should look at what attributes an employer looks for in any prospective pilot.

What do you think are the important things?

Hours?
Endorsements?
Ratings?

Yes they are nice to have, but certainly not a guarantee to obtain that first start.

Employers are far more impressed with:

Commitment
Well written applications, letters, e-mails and even postings of P’prune. [And check for spelling and punctuation].
Initiative
Motivation [self motivation]
Willingness to move ahead [enthusiasm]

Employers don’t necessarily expect new pilots to have the hours in the book, and don’t ever feel that you should withhold your application because you don’t quite address the criteria or specified requirements.

What shows employers that you want to get ahead?

If you have just completed your Commercial Theory then don’t stop. Move straight into your Air Transport Pilot Licence theory. When your on a roll it’s not a huge challenge, just keep going.
The same with the dreaded IREX Theory, do it!
Finish off that Higher Education Course that you started. [particularly if it’s aviation related]
Do a First Aid Course.
If you are looking at flying to ships or oil platforms, then think about the HUET course
Highlight your other strong relevant attributes. Someone who can do other duties when not flying will be towards the top of the list.

Just remember, you are your best advocate. Take positive steps to put yourself in front of the rest!

And above all, don’t listen to peers that are content to sit on their tails.

Finally, look at which company you are interested in, research them, find out the correct name of their Chief Pilot or Operations Manager, and call them.

Most of them, if not all will give you the time of day.

Be positive and work towards your aim.

[Geoff Williams]

rotaryman - technically you are very correct.

There are provisions in the CAO's, namely 29.10 appendix 1 sub-section 3. This is a syllabus of training required for the mustering rating. This is what the ‘industry’ refers to a low level endorsement.
Whilst there has never been a specific low level endorsement, this training is a log book entry and is often required by some operators for particular types of work.

Its always a good idea to incorporate this 5 hour requirement as specified in the body of same CAO, sub-section 7, 7.1(b), in your licence training as the elements such as quick stops and dusting turns are covered and you have the time in a 100 plus hour course to do it anyway. It’s a bit like doing a turbine rating during your training; yes it’s a bit more costly than the piston machine, but you would have had to do the 5 hours anyway for your cpl in something so why not use it to get a turbine on the ticket. The total cost of that 5 hours will be turbine 5 hours – piston 5 hours = a turbine rating cheaper than doing it after you have your licence.

If you have done all the parts as specified in the syllabus, make sure your CFI has made the necessary log book entry, it just might help one day towards something else.
As for a job, hang in there and don’t give up….it IS worth it in the end.

Geoff

[canterbury crusader]

I did my training in NZ aswell and with regards to the low level endorsement (yes there is one, if its not an actual endorsement it might aswell be) you must show 5 hours of low level training (quick stops count and a few other things like that) in your logbook (i dont think it maters if dual or solo) and find an australian instructor that you have flown with who will sign you off as low level proficient. They then write in your logbook and send a form off to the lovely people at CASA who send you out a new licence that has "low level training completed" listed under endorsements. I tried every possible way to get around it including showing them a check list from my flight test that had low level ticked off but it wasnt enough.

[pohm1]

Rotaryman,
I concur, while many speak of such a thing, a 'low level endorsement' is but a figment of an over-zealous imagination. It's no more than a rating, by no means an endorsement.
I have an entry in my logbook stating that I have a 'Low Level Rating' but it doesn't warrant an entry on my endorsement page!:cool:

Anyway, back to the topic, it was 7 months of hangar ratting from completion on of CPL(H) and B206 rating until full time work, but it soon pays for it's self, once the right work comes along.

[ReDude]

lol any ways chopperchick i can help u with a mustering endorsment ,a mate of mine needs a mustering pilot fast so if u have had the plesure of chasing cows let me know .
You must have in your log book low level.

[LCT]

Hi Rotorchick,

There is a company in Cairns, Great Barrier Reef Helicopters, they've had a few dramas in the past but are the biggest in the Far North of Qld. They operate R-44, B206III's, Squirrels and a Long Ranger.

One of the pilots (R-44 last I heard) is a female, and one of the co-owners is a female, and to be quite frank, would probably be interested in the fact that another female pilot with an R-44 endorsement and keen attitude is looking for work. Mind you this is just a shot in the dark, but can't do any harm, if you haven't already sent them your resume.

Best of luck and good hunting,

LCT

[chopperpug]

Also hearing round the camps up here that Albatross are looking for a 44 driver out of Litchfield. Not sure how many hours a season they do up there, but given the amount of water we've just had.....its going to be a big one. Last time i checked the bloke to speak to was Mark Grosvenor. Also not sure on the...uummmm......pay...if you can call it that. Beautiful spot...and not to far from darwin. But there is also a lot of other operators up here with 44's, and its the best place to be. To answer your first question.....2 months, and 8500km to get my first job. And they even started paying me straight away. enough to buy beer at anyrate....(everything else was included.....if you can call a shipping container accomodation.:O Not fitted out with anything.)
I came up here for a year three years ago, just never got around to leaving. Its some of the best flying you will ever do, and some of the worst... :\ but you don't get freedom like this anywhere else .

Just turn up at their door and don't leave...they get used to you after a while and just start assumming that you must work there. :ok:

edited to please Bellfest (and any of those CASA blokes... :o) and make sure that the young ones don't go out and get in to too much trouble early on. But just so you know....its out of MY system now... :ok:

[bellfest]

Chopperpug
It is probably not the best idea to make comments about "running amock and getting it out of your system" when you are giving an aspiring young aviator advice about starting their career. Stay disciplined and keep the good habit of flying steady. Try to be graceful. Get it out of your system at the pub.:ouch:
Keep the engine judging what the helicopter can do and not the helicopter judging what the engine has to do:ok:

[r44tropic]

Great Barrier Reef Heli were recently looking for a 206 pilot (see AfAP) but if its your fisrt job im sure the housr are a bit far away just at the moment, its true one of the owners is female and one of the pilots is female not only on the r44.

Their only R44 however is to pick up the extra work only, and the majority of the time one of the engineers with his cpl takes care of it when its required.

I do believe like somelese posted that being a female will help and as long as you can fly the machine above all else in a safe manner male or female means nothing.

It took me 18 months of giving up almost every weekend at my training school as a hanger rat to get a start, be patient and you'll have no regrets. You will be able to feed yourself and of course the beers are a nessecity but don't expect to live to lavish early on.

All the best keep it in the green

[r44tropic]

Mr selfish i worked as an electrician for 12 years before i started flying full time, if i wanted to earn money i'd still be doing it.

Regardless enjoying what you do and what makes you happy was my goal

[topendtorque]

One of my first mentors, an OZ, scrounged his first licence dollars by being an underground electrician in one of OZ's famous northern mines.

He got to fly super sabres with the great Frank Minjoy (spelling?) in the RCAF doing amongst other things very black night intercepts during the cold war over the North Pole where you would - "run format on a blow pipe and if he got shot down shoot," twenty minuites later sitting down to eggs and soda-parp for breakfast.

He also had a couple of K hours in a PBY4 taxiing along the Brahmaputra and delta (spelling again) on electromagnetic surveys. had a total of 18K fixed wing and acheived his 2k in rotary and 20K total the day after i turned with a brand new licence, he said to me "Say, you got your licence take it for a fly!".
He was one of only very few oz rotary pilots in those days that had an ATPL,
took me a while to figure out what he was on about.

[Nigel Osborn]

The Merciless Ming! Haven't heard of him for years. We used to live in the same block in Sydney when he was the General Manager of Helicopter Utilities in the 60s. Quite a character & an excellent pilot.:ok:

[topendtorque]

It was easy to be inspired by one and all of the HUPL crew.

One who also inspired me to go take the rotary step and who would have been cooking had he been in the same domicile with you, was the late , Monsieur Pussycat. A thorough gentleman.

If my memory serve me correctly, previously a sqdn leader in the french navy of a dozen or so anti-sub S61's.

I had better sign off before we clog the system!

[Nigel Osborn]

Hi Topend
I can't send you an email thru pprune, so could you contact me to see if our paths/flights crossed in HUPL?

[gulliBell]

I was fortunate enough to walk straight into a co-pilot job as soon as I got my CHL, but only because I did a turbine endorsement, NVFR and IREX as part of my flight training course. My first employer paid for my S76 and B412 endorsement and instrument rating, and I was paid the Award salary plus allowances from day one. Very lucky I had a tick in all those boxes as when jobs come up there can be very little lead time to fill the position. Highly recommend anyone else contemplating the CHL do the same as it worked for me, and it's worked for many others I know as well.

[Bell Man]

Dual rated, pilots ?
G'day all, I'm a high time F/W pilot, with a basic heli CPL. Any ideas on how operators look at people like myself. I have applied for a few jobs around the place, with not much luck so far. I am still employed as a F/W pilot, but I would like to get into the heli flying. Are there any operators with F/W and R/W aircraft who may look at dual rated pilots (CPL) favourably. I also have a F/W instrument rating and heaps of turbine command hours. Any help would be great.
Have a nice day ! :D

[havick]

Bell Man,
Try Heli West in Perth, I'm pretty sure they operate both F/W and Chopper.
Cheers,
Shifty

[Bell Man]

Thanks Havick, any idea what kind of machines (F/W & R/W) they operate ?
:)

[jetflite]

www.heliwest.com.au
They have 5 jetrangers (approx.) 1 R22, 1 schweizer 300,
Your best bet would be heli-work / sling-air they operate FW & RW
www.slingair.com.au
FW - cessna 206
cessna 207
210 & 208B
310 & chieftan & navajo
RW -
jetranger
long ranger
B47
R22
R44
Kawasaki



JF:ok: