Hiller

[diesel76]

I read an article on Spraying with Hillers.
The article says they operate Hiller UH12 e's with Turbine Conversion..... 4,000 SHP.
WOW where do you get these beasts???
In the article its stated that they can carry bigger loads than a Bell 206.... no wonder with the Jetranger having a pitiful 420 shp compared to the mighty 4000 shp Hiller! ;)

[rotormatic]

The piston 12E uses 305 horsepower, when you put the Allison engine in, it is derated to 301 horsepower (4 HP less, because the cooling fan drive for the piston engine is removed from the transmission during turbine conversion)

The 206A/B series ships use 317 horsepower...

The 500D uses 375 horsepower....

The M/R system on the Hiller is just better for lifting, but it don't go fast....

[diesel76]

Did nobody note the sarcasm in my voice?
The Hiller also had the advantage of giving you a full body massage by the end of the day.

[rotormatic]

The Hiller 12E can fly as smooth as a Bell 47 or 206, if the operator is committed to maintain the aircraft correctly...

If that happens, then you will not get a full body workout....

[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: rotormatic ]

[Nodak Garth]

I've did Forestry with both the 206 and the Hiller Soloy and yes the Soloy will lift more,but it stops there, the 206 can do just as much if not more work because it is faster. You will have a strong left arm after flying the Hiller. If you go out and take the power-steering belt off your car and drive it like that,thats what flying a Hiller is like

[rotormatic]

Depends on the pilot...

Had a soloy on a christmas tree contract, and they kicked off a 500D because the hiller was faster. You can only go so fast with a load.....

[Nodak Garth]

While slinging Fertilizer with a Hiller you have to just trim the cyclic to a fairly neutral position because the bucket emties so fast you wear yourself out trying to trim it. So you just force feed the cyclic all day long,as if the collective wasn't bad enough.If you've ever worked a Hiller you will know what I'm talking about. Hiller pilots soon learn how to move there left leg over to help hold up the collective. Just no fun to fly. :(

[GulfPLt]

Everything Nodak said is gospel. Your left arm will begin to look like Popeye's. They don't call them Hiller Killers for nothing. Damn thing nearly killed me. I will Never fly another one.

[t'aint natural]

...does anyone know of one?

[rotormatic]

What's a TRE?

[The Nr Fairy]

t'aint :

Try asking the guy who's had an article written about them in the latest Pilot. You should have his contact details, no ?

And, rotormatic, a TRE is a Type Rating Examiner. I suspect T'aint is on the verge of buying a Hiller for himself.

[muffin]

I must admit that after reading that article, I was somewhat tempted myself.

[t'aint natural]

Fairy:
Spot on. Done that, and he dunno.

[Jed A1]

You'll need a nice local engineer to go with the TRE as well.

Old helicopters = high maintenance.
High maintenance = cheap to purchase.

Also remember slow cruise speed and loads of vibration.

Apart from that great fun and at the end of the day it is a helicopter after all.

;)

[t'aint natural]

I'll let y'all know how I get on.

[Nigel Osborn]

40 years ago I did my basic training in a Hiller 12E. It couldn't have been too difficult, otherwise I would never have got through the course which included night flying! No hydraulics or turbo chargers to go wrong; reliable engine but watch the clutch engagement, not too bad for autos and plenty of power in cool climates and if not too high. If you pay my fare from Australia, I will happily endorse you!

[ppheli]

There is just ONE Hiller current on the G- register, and that's a stretched E.4 model with a CofA expiry date in 1997. So, I guess the enqiry is actually prompted by the article in the May edition of Pilot mag http://www.pilotweb.co.uk in which a UK based N reg Hiller 12C is featured. The owner of this has two others (one 12B which has been on the G register but CofA expiry was 1974!, and one 12C) all on the N register.

One of the 12Cs is featured on the owners website at http://www.southernaircraft.co.uk - price is 40K pounds, no VAT

OK, so I am making a lot of assumptions here, but I guess the search is for an FAA examiner and not a CAA one...

The only other place I can think of in the UK that may be able to help is HFI at Gamlingay (near Old Warden and Little Gransden) - try 01767 651887 - they maintained and operated some Hillers up to a few years back.

[Cyclic Hotline]

Just operate it on the "N" register and bypass all these problems - just fly it!:rolleyes:

Although the Hiller became an archaic relic some decades ago in the UK, they continue to work for a living elsewhere in the world - and still do a pretty good job. The Allison powered Soloy 12E's were the ultimate, plenty of power, very reliable yet still simple.

A few years ago the Hiller suffered very badly from a lack of some major parts - notably Main Rotor Blades (pretty important part). This resulted in some operators cannibalizing their fleets, although once the parts became available again, they seemed to just crank them up and go. Someone contacted me recently about certification on some some British manufactured Hiller blades they had on a ship they purchased (?) - but I really didn't know anything about them.

The assets of the company were sold yet again, and I know that Blades were once again available (not conversant with the current situation though). It depressed the market for a while, but they seemed to bounce back. As you can now purchase a brand new Hiller 12 from the factory, I would imagine the parts situation is back under control.

If you want to see the World, fly Hiller; as it will be passing by pretty slowly! :) (And don't forget those hyper-sensitive controls either :D)Hiller Aircraft (http://www.hilleraircraft.com/)

[t'aint natural]

Okay, all you knowledgeable greybeards, I have one remaining question (for now).
Why is the Vne 75kt?
The Soloy conversions ran out to over 100kt (allegedly) on virtually the same airframe.
I have flown the 12C and found it remarkably slippery. It was ready to bust Vne before I woke up.
What comes off first?

[New PalmTree]

Just wondering if anyone might be able to point me in the right direction. I am interested in buying a Hiller 12C here in the UK, but I am part way through the process of emmigrating to Oz and would like to take the aircraft with me. What I need to find out is as follows
1. Is there anyone that can maintain Hillers in the Brisbane area (I know they used Hillers commercially inOz some time ago)
2. Is the Australian Civil Aviation Authority likely to allow any form of commercial use for this aircraft if it is put on the Australian Civil Aviation Authority register (there is a guy who can put them on the N register here in the UK through a trust but you can't do any commercial work with them)
3. Is there any good reason I shouldn't buy one (any known fatal flaws that I am not aware of)
4. Anything else that may be relevant about the 12C as I am trying to get myself to a point where I feel comfortable buying one.

Many thanks to anyone who can offer any advice at all.

[Nigel Osborn]

Unlike New Zealand where the Hiller 12E was quite popular, Australia has never had many Hiller 12s or 1100 on register. I don't know about the current register though. I learnt to fly on the 12E and believe it was a lot better than the 12C which I never flew. Due to the lack of Hillers here, there wouldn't be too many pilots endorsed or current, so trying to earn money from one could be difficult. Some were used for crop spraying by a East Coast company but I've lost track of them.
Hope that helps a bit!:D

[New PalmTree]

Thanks Nigel,

just out of interest, what is it about the 12E that you thought was better than the 12C, as I wouldn't necessarily be averse to buying one other than they tend to be a fair bit more money and have more time-lifed components.

[Nigel Osborn]

As I said I haven't flown the 12 C, so all my info is second hand. The Navy replaced the 12C with the E in 1963 when I learnt to fly and did a huge 50 hours on them and naturally found it difficult. In cool climates and low altitudes, the 12E outperformed the Bell 47, hence they were used for sling work in New Zealand and crop spraying here. Why is it better than the C? I can't be more specific other than to say it is newer, any C must be at least 40 years old. Management Aviation ( Bond) used Hillers in Cambridge for spraying, so someone there may know more.:rolleyes:

[H-43]

I have never flown the 12E but I did my initial training in the 12C and I can say that having flown that the R-22, the Rotorway 162, and the 300C that the 162 and the 12C were the worst underpowered of the group. I have heard that the supercharger really helps the power though.

My two cents

Brian

[Draco]

There was a full article on the Hiller UH-12C in Pilot Magazine May 2002 p58. I think that will answer a few of your questions. If you haven't got one I could send you a copy of the relevant six pages.

The provider of the Hiller for the article was a chap called Warren Chmura of Southern Aircraft Consultancy, whose telephone number is 01763 786 032. He looks after Hillers on the US register. He might be the same chap you are referring to on your post.

[ppng]

The biggest user of the Hiller 12E in Oz used to be East Coast Helicopters based at Caloundra, just north of Brisbane in Queensland. We used them mainly for crop spraying & cattle mustering. Rather than buy one in UK and go to all the trouble of exporting to Oz, why not get in touch with Barry Costa ([email protected]) and get one already on the VH- register? I think Baz should also be able to arrange a full maintenance & overhaul schedule.

[t'aint natural]

Draco: Chmura's number was misprinted in Pilot. It is in fact 01736 786 032. I happen to know he's just sold the 12C that the article was about, but has others.
I'm not so sure about the unsupercharged 12C being the most underpowered machine in Christendom. I've flown it with three fat blokes in and it's well up to the task. Rattles like a bitch and you risk bird strikes up the chuff, but otherwise OK.

[crop duster]

I believe the "C" had the VO 435 and the "E" has a VO540. Mucho more power. Great crop duster. Will work with OH-58.
Barryb

[rotormatic]

UH-12C:

Franklin 220 HP engine
Wooden blades

UH-12D:

Lycoming VO435 260HP
Metal Blades

UH-12E:

Lycoming VO540 340 HP derated to 305 HP
Metal Blades

[Up & Away]

I know of an N reg Hiller 12C for sale in East Yorkshire. If you are still interested call 07811 404070

[New PalmTree]

Thanks guys for all the info, it's greatly appreciated.
Just a couple of things, if anyone knows these machines well enough, the 12C is supposed to suffer very badly from vibration which I think may have something to do with the wooden rotors, is the 12E equally rattly or not with metal blades? And also, there is no VSI or balance ball, DI etc with the 12C, is the instrumentation a little more comprehensive on the 12E?
Does anyone know of a site that has all the specs of all the UH models, I am assuming that the 12E has considerable performance advantages over the 12C, but would love to see the specs.

[t'aint natural]

The wooden blades on the 12C do make balancing a fine art, but the advantage is that they remain on-condition. Go to metal blades, and they're time-lifed.

[davehearn]

ANYONE GOT ANY INFO ON THESE MACHINES? OR DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET A TRIAL FLIGHT I,M THINKING I MIGHT PURCHASE ONE BUT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A GO FIRST.
MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE
DAVE

[bugdevheli]

Check back issues of Pilot magazine. Good write up some time ago, also gave address of chap who had some for sale in Cornwall . I think the folks at Weston heli museum may know of him. Bug.

[charlie s charlie]

Would Southern Aircraft Consultancy ring any bells for the people at Cornwall?

Pulse Helicopters (http://www.pulsehelicopters.com) operating out of Sywell Northants offering "360 UH 12 Series, Zero hours, remanufactured utility helicopter £79,995 +VAT fully certified ready to fly"

Possible contender for syndicate? Website claims £68/hr UK operating costs and only 2 time limited components (and has a favourable quote from Pilot Magazine tagged on the end):

Since 1951,the UH12 has been used as a primary trainer by military services around the world.The Helicopter was extensively used in combat conditions throughout the Vietnam era.The UH12 continues to-day with an almost perfect training record.NTSB records show the UH12 Series Model has a significantly better safety record,particularly in the last ten years,than our nearest competitor.This record allows for lower insurance costs in to-days market place.

The Internationally proven,full 3 place UH12 is capable of tackling the most demanding tasks.With almost 700 pounds of USEFUL LOAD,the UH12 is one of the most versatile utility piston helicopters available to-day.

The UH12 has just two-limited life components,in the tail rotor assembly.This keeps ownership costs to a minimum.At the present time,operating costs, based on 50 hours flown per year,are just under $50 US Dollars per hour. (in the United States).The direct fuel cost differences in the UK,make this figure around £68 Pounds per hour.

Each Helicopter is painstakingly constructed by hand,with total emphasis to Detail.You can choose your own specification with regards to Exterior/Interior Colours and fabrics.A full Factory fitted options list is also available for you to Choose from.

“You’re going to be one of the most confident pilots in the rotary world, because the stability of the UH12 and it’s autorotational behaviour, are beyond compare. You can add to the upside the fact that it’s cheap as chips (by helicopter standards), goes on forever, could be flown with half-an-hours tuition by your maiden aunt, and provides the best picture window you’ll ever get on this world. If you need a personal runabout for social, domestic and pleasure, this is it.”

Pilot magazine. May 2002

Too good to be true? :confused: Although I do see "doors" are an optional extra, and a radio ... :rolleyes:

[Nigel Osborn]

I did my first 50 hours in a Hiller 12E and bearing in mind I didn't know what to do, found it a great machine. For example there are no hydraulics or turbo chargers to go wrong. I'm told the E is better than the C, which I never flew.
Doesn't auto as well as the Bell 47, but then not too many helicopters do.:O

[davehearn]

many thanks for your replies lads,
i know pulse and have been invited their in august, but im missing my flying since flightworks went bust and need to get back in the air so i was looking for somewhere to get a couple of hours in beforehand so i dont look like an eejit when i get to have a go!!!:p

[Up & Away]

Hields at Sherburn-in-elmet have a 12E4??

Student/pilot flies it from the front as though its the middle seat, if you get my drift!

[the wizard of auz]

Looked like a good thing until one looks at the component rebuild hours. now it looks expensive

[Vfrpilotpb]

This photo was taken by me ages ago at some Airfiled, cant remember where or when, and piccie just turned up so I thought I would post it on Rotorheads

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/Vfrpilotpb/FloatHeli.jpg

ages since I ve done this hope it comes through
Vfr

[Farmer 1]

Yes, it's a Hiller.

[Teefor Gage]

By amazing intuition, and the fact that it is conveniently written on the side of the tailboom, I can tell you it is a Hiller 12E, which was operating for Plessey at the time. It was built in 1962 and de-registered by Nov 1967 - not sure if the last bit was written on the tailboom though.......

[Cyclic Hotline]

Hiller UH-12E Serial Number: 2193 G-ARXV,
Also registered as VR-BCA, 5N-AGG, G-ARXV, EP-HAJ, ZS-HCT.

A 12E on fixed floats must have been capable of what, a 35 Kt cruise! :eek:

Still great machines though.

[RINKER]

something I,ve always wanted to ask about the Hiller 12e;does any know if Bell or Hiller copied each other in the design of the cockpit bubble although not the same they are similar or were the bubbles made by the same manufacturer,apologies if this has been asked before.
r

[Vfrpilotpb]

Thank you chaps, even with my really good specs I can see the white marks that must be the name of Hillier, but the photo is so small that I could not make it out, however now that I have looked at the oversized picture that has been posted by me(i didnt have time to look as I posted it Mrs Vfr was shouting for me to go) I can see it, must have been as you say very slow with all that clutter underneath.

Vfr

[TheMonk]

Wow! six tubes? That's alota float.:}

[CRAN]

If anyone fancies a recon'd one:

http://www.pulsehelicopters.co.uk/

They are affiliated with a company doing the same in the states too!

CRAN
:ok:

[Bravo73]

CRAN,

If 'you' are thinking of getting a Hiller from Pulse, tread very, very carefully:

AAIB Report from Nov '04 (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Hillier%2012%20OH-23B,%20N33514%208-05.pdf). :eek:


Although I've got a feeling that Pulse aren't trading anymore. Can anyone confirm?

[BigMike]

There a bit of a legendary machine the old 12E. Better performance than the 47, they were used a lot in New Zealand for Ag work, as well as chasing deer, until the 500 came along.
My first ride in a helicopter was in a Hiller 12E over Frankton Heights, Queenstown NZ. The pilot was my fathers cousin, Graeme Allen, who worked for Alpine Helicopters. I was 13. Along time ago now.

[pohm1]

Hey BigMike,

When you were 13, Igor was still a lad :p

Check your PM's

[Lama Bear]

Big Mike,
Below about 6,500 feet you are correct but above that the 47G3B series (with Lycoming 435 and turbo) is far better. At 10,000 the 47G3B-1 and 2 had better performance than the 206A and equal to the 206B. The 47G-4 (Lycoming 540 same as the 12E) was the equivilant of the 12E except it had a quaint thing called hydrualics. Didn't you just love "poping the collective in the Hiller 12 to get the collective to stay in one place?
Both grand old helicopters that did a lot of work in the worst conditions.

[Snarlie]

Generations of RN helicopter pilots owe their livelihoods to the trusty old Hiller. Me, I used to hate it, probably because I never really mastered it. Luckily for me I had one of those trips when everything went right on my Mid Course Check and was allowed to progress to the much more sedate and serious Whirlwind 7.
I would love to celebrate the attainment of the terminal age with a ride in a Hiller, just to teach it a lesson!

[Mike Adam-Swales]

Split the needles in a downwind quick-stop flare and re-engage before hitting the ground! Now that was a real lesson in co-ordination to keep the Nr within limits.

[Ian Corrigible]

One for snarlie, from 1963. (Mods - hope this is acceptable to post: Hiller's dealer Helicopter Sales is no more; their old premises is now the Egyptian Consulate)

http://turboshaft.com/db2/00189/turboshaft.com/_uimages/Hillerad.jpg

I/C

[Hiller-UH12]

If any one is interested a book called vertical challenge records the complete history of Hiller Helicopters and is a fantastic story of Stanley Hiller Designing, Building and learning to fly and forming Hiller Helicopters.

They hold many records and are a great machine (Considering their age !!)

Regards

Duncan

PS I am not biased as such but do own one and fly it from Rochester in kent. UK

[nigelh]

I did my crop spray training in Hillers and Bell 47,s at Ag Rotors nr Gettysburg in 1981, any idea if they are still going ? Trained with Hank Whitfield who had 20,000 hrs of 47 !! In one day we took out a Hiller and tried to split the needles and main rotor rpm plummeted , got back , took their old wooden blade 47 and a piece came off one blade.....shook so bad you couldnt read the instruments !! Didnt fly any more that day............:uhoh:

[Hippolite]

Not sure where the picture was taken but the fixed floats were fitted so that the aircraft could fly along the Thames and into Battersea. This is a Bristow machine. Bristow used to have a contract with Plessey. In the 1970s Plessey upgraded to a contracted Bell 206A model.

[tcamiga]

Anyone interested in Hiller Pilot notes click http://brumbyhelicopters.com.au/hiller12e.htm

Tc

[Cyclic Hotline]

Helicopter innovator dies at 81
Aviator Stanley Hiller Jr. founded aircraft museum in San Carlos
By Todd R. Brown, STAFF WRITER

Stanley Hiller Jr., a pioneer in vertical flight and founder of the Hiller Aviation Museum, died Thursday of complications of Alzheimer's disease at his home in Atherton at age 81.

The Hiller Aviation Museum opened in 1998 at San Carlos Airport and features a variety of revolutionary aircraft.

"He was always just looking for something better and more interesting in the future," said Alan Waufle, CEO of Hiller Aviation Museum, Friday night. "Probably 'what if' was probably a good term for him — 'What if we did this? What if we tried that?'"

Hiller was born November 15, 1924, in San Francisco. As a boy, Hiller ran his own toy race car business. By age 18, the precocious son of an aviation pioneer from San Francisco was designing his own flying machines.

"He invented the helicopter as it is known today," said Stephen Hiller, Stanley Hiller's son, in a 2004 interview.

In 1944, Stanley Hiller Jr. designed and flew the XH-44 helicopter, the first to be built and piloted on the West Coast. With that success, Hiller founded United Helicopters in Palo Alto, which later became Hiller Aviation Company and moved to Menlo Park. In 1945, the Hiller 360 was the first helicopter to be certified by the FAA.

Hiller's fledgling company developed more than 20 helicopter models and produced more than 3,000 aircraft.

"The range of aircraft developed by the Hiller Company is absolutely astounding," Bob Erdman of the Society for Aviation History wrote in an 2004 story on Hiller.

The company's proposals included such concepts as a flying submarine, flying bridge and flying jeep for the armed forces.

Hiller's more down-to-earth ideas included the UH-4 helicopter with counter-rotating blades, which was intended as a commuter craft. Another innovation was the NC-5, a chopper that used "Rotormatic Control System" blades for unheard-of stability.

Hiller is survived by his wife of 49 years, Carolyn Hiller; sons, Jeffrey and Stephen Hiller; seven grandchildren.

Memorial services for Hiller will be held at 1:00 p.m., Friday, May 5, 2006, at the Hiller Aviation Museum, 601 Skyway Road in San Carlos.

In lieu of flowers, memorial funds have been established in his name for the Hiller Aviation Institute and Museum Educational Fund.


The next big event at the Hiller Aviation Museum is the annual "Vertical Challenge" air show from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. June 17. It will feature more than 50 helicopters on display and in action. The museum is open 10 a.m. to 5 p.m., seven days a week at 601 Skyward Road, San Carlos, just off Highway 101 at San Carlos Airport. For more information, call (650) 654-0200 or visit http://www.hiller.org.

[HillerBee]

My deepest sympathy for family and friends. He was a remarkable man. I'm still flying a Hiller 12 every day and admire Stanley Hiller for what he designed.

www.flyhiller.org

[slowrotor]

That is sad news. Stanley Hiller certainly was a giant in the field of experimental rotorcraft and a success at business as well, a rare combination.
I have been to the Hiller Museum. A must see if you are near San Francisco.

[B Sousa]

A lot of Army Pilots flew his machines. I know it was the first thing I ever flew. All those guages and dials and whistle tune the radio. How did we do it....Then they put us in a Huey.....ha ha
Yep, Hiller OH-23 , Harley Davidson on the throttle grips...Great machine....

[007helicopter]

Stanley Hiller designed, built & taught himself to fly his own helicopter and turned that into a successful business during the 1940's. Anyone who does that gets my vote as a top pioneer.

I am very pleased to own a 1963 Hiller UH12 that was used in the bond movie From Russia with Love.

Pics at www.007helicopter.com (http://www.007helicopter.com) if anyone interested

[Thomas coupling]

Another memorable chapter in helicopter history closes.

A true pioneer with a capital "P".

[B Sousa]

After looking at those pictures of 007s Helicopter, I have to further comment for all those who flew them at Ft Wolters Texas in the Army. Although some were in fact used in Vietnam, most were used for training. For you folks in the UK, picture about 40-50 in the sky at the same time all doing various amounts of training. Of course we must also include about the same number of the Hughes TH-55.. Thngs were busy back then........Sasless jump on in anytime..

[blave]

I took some pictures of Mr. Hiller at the 2004 Vertical Challenge airshow, after he was flown to the show flightline in a UH-12? (I'm not very familiar with the various Hiller models):
http://blave.smugmug.com/gallery/153068/2/5676700
http://blave.smugmug.com/gallery/153068/2/5676701
http://blave.smugmug.com/gallery/153068/2/5676702
http://blave.smugmug.com/gallery/153068/2/5676703
I still wonder why the Hiller coaxial single-seater couldn't be built at a reasonable cost as a home-built:
http://blave.smugmug.com/gallery/153068/1/5676689
http://blave.smugmug.com/gallery/153068/1/5676691
It appears (to my untrained eye) to be a relatively simple design.
At any rate, you have to greatly appreciate the engineering that went into these early birds - those days are gone forever (i.e. it was all done before lawyers were invented :8 ).
Enjoy,
Dave Blevins

[007helicopter]

A book called Vertical Challenge - The Hiller Aircraft Story written by a guy called Jay P Spenser gives a full account of how Stanley Hiller started in business, a lot of achievemnts Hillers made and finally their demise in main due to a certain Mr Hughes.

Alan Bristow worked with Hiller through Helicop-Air in France, Egypt and Vietnam.

The UH12 I operate can in no way be compared to a modern machine but it is still a lot of fun to fly, fairly easy to maintain and has a great safety record.

Hopeless for actually travelling any where as so slow but you get to admire the scenery.

www.007helicopter.com

[007helicopter]

Can any one help with any History about World Helicopters ? Internet search does not provide much.

The reason being I own a Hiller UH12C which is has a serial number WH6003 which I am fairly reliably informed was used in the 1960's Bond Movie From Russia with Love.

Prior to me aquiring it, it has beed refurbished in the colours used in the Movie, I believe three were produced specifically for this filming.

I would be really interested to learn anything about the history of the machine or the making of the movie

www.007helicopter.com (http://www.007helicopter.com)

[Ian Corrigible]

Re: Russia with Love, you might want to try asking Tony Lee (mailto:[email protected]?subject=Pigasus), who runs the Rotary Action (http://www.rotaryaction.com/) 'helicopters in the movies' website.

I/C

[007helicopter]

Thanks Ian - had not seen this site before. there is certainly information about will drop him a mail:)

[_ed_]

Hi Folks:

Just wonderin if anybody out there has any high res photos of the late, great stanley hiller that i could borrow?

[airborne_artist]

A long and suitably generous obituary in today's Telegraph. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/04/db0401.xml&DCMP=EMC-new_04052006)

[treadigraph]

I do recommend a visit to the Hiller Museum, mentioned in the Telegraph obit, if ever you are in San Francisco.

[Greaney]

Until you can make the trip:

http://www.hiller.org/

[007helicopter]

Try user BLAVE this is a link he did on a previous thread and there are other pics he has as well

http://blave.smugmug.com/gallery/153068/2/5676700

[_ed_]

thanks to everyone for their help

[007helicopter]

For a few pics www.007helicopter.com (http://www.007helicopter.com)

[HillerBee]

for Hiller pilots and owners there is : www.flyhiller.org

[ahm]

The 12E is past its used by date . I would rather ride a donkey than a gyrating/vibrating piece of **** Hiller

[topendtorque]

Ride A donkey?
most certainly you will, one of us anzacs will help find you one, but hey, Simpson won't be your plumage when done.
TET

[HillerBee]

A properly tracked and balanced Hiller flies as smooth as can be. It's just a lot of work to get there.

[vo540]

**** Hiller !
The truth is the Hiller is a man's helicopter and any wimp pilots din't last 5 minutes on it .
I flew the Hiller for 10 years, cropspraying in the summer and power line inspection,underslinging and forestry in the winter. It was poorly paid, involved long periods away from home and conditions in a Scottish forest in the depths of winter were spartan to say the least.
Despite all this they were some of the happiest times of my 35 yr. carreer.
My first full cropspraying season was on the Hiller 12C G-ARTG in 1973 it had wooden blades and 210HP Franklin engine. It was underpowered with a full load of 35GALS of chemical, I flew 260 hours in 10 weeks and the engine never missed a beat.
After that I flew the 12E ,quite a different beast 305 HP Lycoming and it would lift 70 GALS of chemical no problem. Stripped of spraygear it would lift 1,000 lbs. on the hook although 700-800 lbs. was a more realistic load with about an hours fuel. Slinging wet concrete it was possible to move well over 10 tons an hour.
The Lycoming suffered under such punishment and rarely lasted more than 800 hours despite it,s supposed life of 1200 hours. Typical engine problems would include, valve seats coming out, piston rings breaking up and conrods breaking: to name but a few.
Yes it was slow (it was never meant to be fast 84 kts VNE) yes it was not the smoothest flyer around but, at 0500 on a summers morning in the the field, climb in, pump on, 5 pumps of the throttle, magneto switch to right mag, crank the starter and feel 10 ltrs of unsilenced engine blast into life shattering the early morning calm. Oh what joy!
**** helicopter? I think not.

[007helicopter]

Ride A donkey?
most certainly you will, one of us anzacs will help find you one, but hey, Simpson won't be your plumage when done.
TET

Top end - sorry if a bit slow like my trusty Hiller, I know what an anzac is but whats the bit about Simpson ?

[Lama Bear]

vo540

Nicely said.

[md 600 driver]

my 12c used to vibrate a lot when i got it but after a day with the tracking gear it flew fantastic
iam trying to put a deal together to buy a 12e from the states that one has the lyc engine anyone flown both and give me a balanced view

edit
if i had read the post above i would have seen a balanced view but is there any more

[007helicopter]

MD600 why not pay a visit to Hields Aviation at Sherburn in Elmet and try there 12e before going to all the trouble of importing, then make your own mind up.
http://www.hieldsaviation.co.uk/html/11_fleet.html

Be interested to know your thoughts if you do

[HillerBee]

MD600 I know a 12E3 in this country which is beeing rebuild.

[topendtorque]

007helicopter
No probs, I was referring to the illustrious and perhaps foul mouthed AHM of the previous post, and I figured seeing as how there aren’t many donkeys in NZ that we could join forces to find him one.

I know where there are thousands, I‘ll supply one for this rude dude and when he fails to ride it his epitaph will be of much lower substance than the hero Simpson, of Anzac fame, or the Hiller machine and its inventor, the object of the thread.

I too have a respect for the Hiller but am quite ready to join battle and demonstrate the old bias toward the 47,---lift a 1000lb eh? P*** all over that with a good 3B1 etc, not to mention the 3B2A an extra 150lbs if I remember rightly as long as it was on the hook.

The best part of the Hiller was the brilliance of the designer when he eliminated the major 47 problem of dirty oil recirculation through the xmon, by having separate oil systems for donk and xmon.

The flex eng-xmon coupling was also much better, eliminating most of the seventh order vibes which often used to result in two crankshafts, as on the 540 equipped 47-G4 and 4A. No excuses though, the warnings for RPM avoidance where it used to happen were in the Lyc manual in black and white.

But mate, the 47 blades --- much more efficient that the Hiller or the 206 blade for that matter, at altitude.

And the straight up straight pipes hooked onto a VO540 in a J model which I had once, man – did they bark - horn fodder with a capital H!!!

[007helicopter]

TET thanks get it now, would not dream of doing battle as no bias for me just happens to be what I know and fly. Never actually flown a bell 47 but intend to when I get the chance...

Going back to Mr S Hiller I still can not imagine the vision and determination required to start a successful company producing helicopter's in 1940's, let alone produce a machine that is still quite widely used today.

[md 600 driver]

007

hields have a 12e4 anyway i am buying a 12e plus i would not buy anything off that company if it was the last in the world

steve

[007helicopter]

Steve - ok I dont know much about them, not aware of any other 12e's in the uk other than potential rebuilds, have you made any progress in your thinking yet?

By the way if any enthusiasts wanted to fly in the Hiller 12c I am quite happy to oblige - subject to a healthy donation to kent air ambulance. Based at EGTO Rochester.

[Rivet]

I flew G-ARTG also.

Anyone else flown it?

Flew well.

A good history to it.

[007helicopter]

Rivet - Check pm

[Brien23]

Thinking of buying a UH-12B not sure if thease are getting a little old and hard to maintain. Would like some input as to pro and con of thease old helicopters.

[pedjalfc]

I wat to buy used Hiller Uh12e!!
If anybody knows any offers let me know on my mail [email protected]!
I am in Serbia,so it would be good if offer is from Europe...
Thanks...

[pedjalfc]

I want to buy used Hiller Uh12e URGENT!
Contact mail : [email protected]

[malc4d]

Have a friend here with a 12b, blades been sent to be rebuilt. cant wait to fly it again.
In the pic. earlier, are the paddles missing ??

[airbourne1]

We have owned and operated many hillers throughout the last 25 years, maily E models and one soloy conversion.The soloy would easily lift its own weight and more it may be a bit slower than the 206 but it's a far better work horse.

We still maintain Hiller's mainly E and C models in the UK ( well there is only the one E flying at the moment ) If you have all the right contacts there isnt much you cant get for them.

The art in the Hiller is to start from the ground up and set all things correctly, take your time setting up the head and blade assy before you even install it to the aircraft then a good set up on tracking and it will fly nice and smooth.

anyone needs any more info send me a pm.

[David Earley]

Just read this thread. I had the "privilege"? of flying the 12C in Vermont, wooden blades and all; the 12E throughout the eastern USA, in PNG and Irian Jaya , and the 12E4 in the Philippines. Most operations were above 5000' which accentuated any play in the collective rod end train resulting in mucho vibration, all the time. Even with a well tracked aircraft at sea level, when it was operating at max gross and above 5000' it was a pig. Vibration was enough to make your right wrist numb from the cyclic feedback.
Collective drops were frightening. Hit a gust and the darn thing could rise an inch in response and then plummet to the lower stop. It is disconcerting to have the dust and pencil stub rise up before your eyes in the middle of an ear piercing shriek from the student being endorsed.One soon learned to never remove one's left leg from the collective if changing hands on the cyclic for radio switching or indicating some scenic point of interest.
I have a photo of the altimeter somewhere taken by the pax topping out at 13,400' over the Markham valley in a 12E with what was called "high altitude pistons" trying to beat the rising clouds. A Hiller cyclic at that altitude feels like a stick in a bucket of grease, with about the same effect.
Had one vibration damper depart in flight, and the machine got smoother!
Then we got the "Phoenix conversion", which had the "turbo normalised" VO540 . Landing at 11,000' was a blast. About 1/8" throttle rotation produced about 5" of manifold pressure at the hover. You can imagine the directional control.
Flew it on pontoons doing crocodile survey, landing and shutting down adjacent to the nests while intrepid researchers opened the nest, weighed and measured the eggs ...all the while hoping the mama salty wouldn't contest the turf while we were there.
One aircraft (not with me) had a stabiliser bar and paddle depart in flight at 500". He got it down but was cross eyed for some years afterward from the vibration on the way down.
All in all, a great work horse, and fine low level but above 5000' one of the roughest, most unpleasant helicopters I have ever had the misfortune to fly.
It was a happy day to put the Hiller behind me!

[500 Fan]

I am currently researching the markings applied to the past fleet of Irish Helicopters Ltd. Does anyone have a photo of Hiller UH-12E EI-AKT operated by Irish Helicopters Ltd between June 1959 and December 1960? Apparently it took part in a trial with the Commissioners of Irish Lights for the lighthouse support contract around that time period, but for some reason CIL decided not to use this helicopter! Thanks.

500 Fan.