26th April 2006

[EK Pilot]

Gentlemen, it has just gone midnight here in Dubai. Today there will be an announcement and it will go something like this:

"We have had a difficult year, the fuel prices have hit us hard, but our hedging policies and fuel surcharges have helped us through the worst of it. But despite this we would still like to announce a record year of profit. This last fiscal year the Emirates Group made a Net Profit of US$bloody millions. We would also like to announce a X week bonus to all our staff and a Y% payrise too!"

For all of you out there that are basing your future decisions on today's announcement, I hope it is what you are hoping for.

If it is any less than 4 weeks, I have my resignation letter aready written and will just leave the Grand Hyatt and head straight up to Flight Ops to meet the returning managers.

Good luck to us all!

[uplock]

http://prague.tv/galleries/funny-pics2/headsup.jpg

[zulu_kilo]

I suspect this thread will become very interesting in a few hours...:}

[Warlock2000]

EK Pilot, 4 weeks? Is that all you're expecting after a year where most have worked their arses off and a lot have gone out of hours? :\
I have little doubt that that EK beat last years' earnings by yet another whopping amount, since the target remained unchnged 4 weeks won't quite cut it I'm afraid.

The race is on, who's gonna post the results 1st?

[brokenenglish]

Yeah, but don't mention the private followup communication from MFLAN that went something like this:

'In spite of the mega profits announced last week, start lubricating your passage now in preparation for the most almighty rod up the jacksy'.

And he was right. Wise words indeed from Gandalf.

[Vorsicht]

Keep in mind that todays announcement is company wide. Therefore if a small pay increase is announced today, it could well be because generally within the company they don't see a need to raise salaries. Whatever we get today, so will the baggage handlers.

It can't yet be interpreted as a slap in the face until the pilot pay review, which is usually announced in May. Not until then will we really now how little they think of us this year. So for those of you about to throw your toys out of the cot, you might want to wait another month to get the full picture, as the profit share is only part of it.

Mind you, I'm not expecting either announcement to be anything other than dissapointing

Cheers

[Dale Hardale]

Any advances on 5 weeks bonus and a 20 % pay rise at the Pilot Salary Review in May.

Am I dreaming ?? :{

[fatigueflyer]

12 weeks and 30% salary increase when pay review is finally announced, 30% increase in housing, max 750 hrs flying a year, no manual manipulation of roster bids, company announcement stating that they messed up big time and personally thanking the guys for their hard work......:\

[Outta Heresoon]

A little tounge in cheek, but that would be what's required just to bring us to eqivalent terms we were under just a few years ago!

Is it time to wake up yet? Another micro-sleep while reading this. I had a dream we all got.....

[ruserious]

I stand by my original guess. 4-6 weeks, 7+3% raise. Just enough to keep some of the dumber, more whipped ones of us happy. The only surprise we will ever get here, is if they do the right thing.

[BigGeordie]

5 weeks (just so they can say it was more than last year), 8+3% (because inflation isn't a problem in Dubai) and 10% on utilities because: i) Hardly anybody can afford to live out so it doesn't actually cost them much and ii) Rents haven't really gone up by all that much.

The best part is they will produce this "deal" with a straight face. They should take up poker. Whoops, can't play that in Dubai...

[fractional]

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20060426083254/secIndustries/pagTransport/chnMiddle%20East%20Transport%20News/obj224033E5-8F1A-11D4-867000D0B74A0D7C/

[specialrider987]

http://prague.tv/galleries/funny-pics2/headsup.jpg


Could be LL... could be TCAS... could be Mr Ed... could be GN...

Brilliant pic!

[Vorsicht]

Having just read that previously mentioned article, it is easy to see how the staff are thought of. Not one mention of staff with regard to contributing to the profit. Apparently it is all down to buying the latest equipment, that is why people travel with us.

Oh well another year of inflation and a meagre payrise to battle it.

[zulu_kilo]

5 weeks it is........ :{

[rakedwings]

So does 5 weeks mean no resignations?
Damn:ugh:

[Dale Hardale]

Mr Ed's appointment book is apparently rapidly filling up. There's a special resignation box outside his office for those people who don't want to stand in a queue or who are unable to see him personally. :ok:

[Fubaar]

I'll be interested to see whether they're pulled the same trick again as they did three years ago when they gave everyone a five percent pay rise, but for the pilots, included the contractural 3% annual increment in the 5%. So the pilots got a 2% pay rise while all other employees got a 5%.

I think the reaction if they try that again will be a bit less muted to what it was then.

[fatigueflyer]

WOW! 225 viewers at the moment in the ME Forums! Who's the first to state their resignation??? Nice to see so many viewers today. Guess that figure could have been doubled if the PS was only 2 weeks! Hi Ho Hi Ho... ...its off to another job we go....:ok:

[fatigueflyer]

Fubaar.....the writings already on the wall. Its a bit late for EK to try anything more as we are down to our last pint of blood around here and no ones donating anymore! I have witnessed the good days and its such a bloody (excuse the pun) shame to see this cow finally bled to death. Good old days are history....its 2006 now and time to face the unreality around here. I just feel for the guys and their families who have made this place their home and have to put up with this kind of work environment for the next 10-20 years.:yuk:

[Vorsicht]

Could someone state what was anounced, if anything, about pay increase or increase in utility allowance

[Al Koholic]

Sorry Fubaar but it is not always about the pilots ... last year they screwed everyone else ... well actually every year they screw anybody who has been here for a few years !!

Last year the pilots got 8% + 3% increment ... normal staff got 7% only, but here is the catch ... the 7% is based on 7% calculated at 70% of the grade payscale, so actually only a fixed dirham amount for each grade, thus if you have been with the company for a more than a year you got a lot less than 7%. Anyone here for a few years, who finally made it to the 100% scale point or higher, actually got about 4% !! Meanwhile new staff got 7% !!

All pilots for the full 8% +3% regardless of how long you have been here,and where you were on the scale.

They don't just pick on the pilots, they shaft everyone !!

Keep discovering !!

[Mack Tuck]

Package 'review' should be delivered separately to our mailboxes in CBC in the next two weeks in time to be paid in May salary. Not normally announced with the bonus announcement.

[MR8]

Let's not forget that 'their' 5 weeks is not our 5 weeks...

5 weeks bonus = 25 days bonus, which isn't even a months salary :{

which is also less then 4 (pilot)weeks, so maybe the resignations will follow.. :}

Looks like almost everyone I speak with is looking for better pastures..

MR8

[max AB]

Mack,
I guess there's a lot more employees to divide the profit this year than last, so profit per employeee went down, Somehow we are less efficient this year?

[GreenOnGo]

So 5 weeks is only 25 days! Does this mean that the pay increase is going to be a good one? Or is that going to be half of bagger all with the rest being announced in September or some such?

[knotknowing]

Do the Maths right and 5 weeks is 5 weeks !
Salary you're on now ( not the May one ) times 12 divided by 52 = salary per week !

[BigGeordie]

Max, there are more employees this year but remember you have to be here for a full financial year before you qualify so the large numbers hired in the last 12 months get nuthink. Less efficent, I doubt it. Personally I would rather have a decent pay rise (20%+) but I think we will end up with about 11% (3%+8%).

[Fugazi]

"Contacted".......You are spot on. 5 weeks = 35 days. Every year the old chestnut of 5 days per week surfaces. It'll happen again next year too, although I'll be back home, so won't be particularly interested. ;)

[GreenOnGo]

So the "bonus" or "profit share" was 5 weeks. Out of interest, how often has it been more than that in the last ten years?

I have a job which pays a 13th monthly salary in my birthday month. I don't have to spend weeks or months agonising over how much it will be and whether it will cover my debts. It is guaranteed.

I get a full months salary without perks, so I guess your "bonus" is 5 days then this year, in appreciation of working your asses off.

[SecurID]

And who is it you work for then?

[Gulf News]

To quell the indignant speculation I have posted a spreadsheet breakdown of the the ammount each pilot can expect in his May pay check on the Emirates private forum using the same salary scales and formula from payroll.

[knotknowing]

Gulf News
Get a Hobby Mate !

[GlueBall]

You'll never get what you want, nor what you think you deserve; you only get what you can negotiate. And to do that you'll need to get a majority of your coworkers to agree on a course of action.

Until then, you are nothing more than just an oversized billy goat with this crazy idea that EK somehow owes you a larger piece of their profit.

Do you really believe that you are more than just a bus driver [with wings]? :{

[AVIATOR757]

So it took 5 weeks bonus to stop the woof, woof. I don't think there was a single bite yet. No resigs huh!. Where are all the sheeps hiding with a calling from back home.:mad:

[BigGeordie]

People are probably waiting to see what, if anything, the pay rise brings.

[fatigueflyer]

Hey Aviator.......patience my friend. This is only the start of a huge pilot shortage at EK. Whether it was 5 or 15 weeks bonus, many pilots have already decided on their career path outside the UAE. To date 20 plus have resigned in the first 3 months. Small number it may seem but the rot has already set in. Not many joining either I believe so watch this space!!!

[Tail Rota]

Hi guys

My guess is the payrise will be the big decider. 5 weeks seems ok to me if it really is 5 weeks and not 25days.:E ... the big one now, is how much cash are we going to get each month for staying here and helping with the great expansion. because without us they are bug - id.

my guess .......min 25% ...they have to rope more in!!!!

with the cost of living in Dubai as it is now........ its not worth staying......we are not getting enough to stay in Dubai even if we wanted to.:{

my bonus is already gone....school fees

TR:ok:

[fatigueflyer]

Gday Tail Rota,
25 or 35 days....who gives a damn. Its all a facade just like this place. Remember the donkey & carrot scenerio? You are correct in that all is spent in school fees etc and rising costs of living makes the EK salary has been a dinosaur for years as it cannot keep up with inflation and other rising costs. I guess it will take about 30% min to keep guys here long enough to be momentarily happy but any many are already looking elsewhere regardless.

[porkandbrew]

Gents,
I think it may be a good time to remind everybody out there that is considering EK as employer that it is not only the remuneration package that is poor here. The lack of respect and non-existent communication between management and pilots is a huge problem.
/Pork is good

[Ali Bin Somewhere]

Hey guys hope EK comes through for you. if they are anything like SERCO the air traffic control provider then it will all look good on paper to about 60% of staff but to the rest of them its just a slap in the face.

just a couple of questions though.

are you given an overall package and all your deductions are taken from that? ie everyone is payed X but jonny has 2 kids in school so thats taken from his package but ahmed has no kids so thats money in the pocket?

have heard that EK a/c are getting unoffically parked up due lack of staff. ie maintence takes 1 week instead of 2 days. cleaning etc is this true? and how will any resignations affect this.

is it just pilots that they are having trouble getting/convincing to stay or is it across the board?

thanks and good luck

[Blue Boy]

Not a pilot.

The cost is affecting everyone. I think you'll find that if you summarise a lot of other postings, regardless of position, you'll get to the same answer.

Dubai was good, but those times have gone.

[bus canuck]

[A]re you given an overall package and all your deductions are taken from that? ie everyone is payed X but jonny has 2 kids in school so thats taken from his package but ahmed has no kids so thats money in the pocket?

Education is paid for to a point. Jonny will have to reach into his pocket to top up. How much depends mostly on which school he picks for his kids. The extra amount is deducted off your paycheque.
{I}have heard that EK a/c are getting unoffically parked up due lack of staff. ie maintence takes 1 week instead of 2 days. cleaning etc is this true? and how will any resignations affect this.
Some flights have been cancelled because of lack of crew, but I don't think any aircraft have been parked. Still taking delivery of 1 per month.
{I}s it just pilots that they are having trouble getting/convincing to stay or is it across the board?
This question is difficult to answer. There were rumblings of a massive Maintenance departure, but it didn't happen. The Cabin Crew have a pretty high turnover, but I think that that's factored into the business plan. There has been and is a large number of pilots leaving, but they don't give us the statistics, so I'm just going by how many guys I know that have quit. Flight Ops doesn't seem too concerned. I haven't seen 1 attempt to improve morale and if fact, there has not been any direct communication from the top in months.
Hope this helps.

[Outta Heresoon]

Based on what came from the horse's mouth (AS) several weeks back, America was going to save the day with the "Thousands" of furloghed pilots and retired captians just "itching" for an opportunity to move to the "worlds greatest city" and fly for the world best (now low cost) "airline".

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much interest from "qualified" pilots from that part of the world nor from Europe and Australia as the information seminars have shown. My guess is that the management thinking helmets are back on trying to come up with some plan, any plan that will prevent airplanes being parked. Aside from re-defining downward what "qualified" means, they may come to the same conclusions that the pilot group has been telling them for ages now, but my guess is they will still attemt a "cost neutral" solution that will fail.

I have yet to see anything come from management that even remotely attempts to seriously tackle any problem other than cost cutting. Well done gents. Another 3/4 of a BILLION dollars profit. This is in addition to all the other brothers that benefit from outsourcing accomodation and own the shops we spend the rest of our money in.

I hope they don't forget though... there's a forest beyond them trees! The difficult times are still ahead of us. Unless management gets their act together the problems we face today will seem miniscule tomorrow. Large amounts of money will undoubtably solve many problems, but there are also some additional things that would cost little and go a long way to improving morale and quality of life.

[AVIATOR757]

Its hard to believe that an aussie would say no to EK.
A757

[Payscale]

Is this where they introduce the Joining Bonus.... "Welcome! here is 300.000 AED for coming...dont mind the grumpy young captain next to you!"

[Tail Rota]

Hi Mr Pork and Brew

the lack of comms from management is a good thing as far as I can tell.

The only time you hear from mamagement at EK is when you are up to your kneck in camel dung........ so no news is good news....sad isnt it:{

maybe 25% for cost of living and and 25% pain alowance.......is it still enough?....... depends on your personel pain threshold.:eek: Ooooooowwwwwww!!!!

off to the clinic to get my Voltaren fix before they run out...my back is already starting to hurt.


TR:ok:

[Eliason]

Hey - stop complaining! At least you will get your X weeks profit share!

The way I always said is: CABINCREW ONLY GET HALF!!!

Reason: Everyone gets the profitshare on the basic salary... Sadly, basic salary in the cabin is only about half of the whole salary (no flight hours included - unlike the pilots)- flight pay is extra! But: no profit share on the flight pay... :{

By the way - loved the article from Zawya! There are only 6000+ CC working for EK at the moment? And they trained last year 60/ week???

Basic maths: 60*50= 3000! Just before I left EK in 2004 there were exactly 5700 CC (23.09.2004) ... Less than 1000 CC increase in the last year and a half? With how many new planes? Guess the changing from max flight hours/month to max duty hours helped them meeting the requirement of being able to man all the new planes :eek:

Oh well.. glad to look at it all from the distance for the moment... getting my 13th + 14th salary in June and Nov, ... not having to worry every year wether we get a profit share or not... :ugh: - it's great to be at home! :ok:

[kiwi_r4]

If management doesn't love you, Team New Zealand sure does! :ok:

Ouch, I felt that!! :ouch:

[Aircav]

Is this where they introduce the Joining Bonus.... "Welcome! here is 300.000 AED for coming...dont mind the grumpy young captain next to you!"

Never a truer word said in jest:sad:

DEC criteria already down from 10000 to 8000 total time. Don't believe me check out the recruitment website.

Every one bend over :mad: