QF Cabin Crew Discussions [Archive]

cartexchange

23rd Apr 2006, 23:24

So we are over here in the D and G zone.
Doesn't matter its all the same, whether we gather on the balcony or the kitchen its still a place to have discussions.
I find it strange that we get banned because of a comment made by "Rupert" who is English and not even Australian, have a look at his posts all he does is bag people out!(worse than me)
What disturbs me even further is that On another site there is a rampant discussion going on about BA CC poisoning pilots and some of the things being said on there even made me worry! Yet I don't see anything about stopping that ridiculous discussion, looks like its OK post things like that if your British!
Anyway lets get the ball rolling.
Do you really think the people will take this VR if it comes out or is it just talk amd hype again from some of the old codgers.

Gordstar

23rd Apr 2006, 23:38

Guys n Gals,

I find it very unfortunate that the slash and burn mentality of QF management is seeing fit to get rid of so many of you.

I think you have done a wonderful job and some of you will continue to do so, because your professionalism will not allow you to drop to the lowest common denominator.

QF has built its reputation on excellence, now with PornJOKE * taking over the airways, and all those red tail 737's and 767's being consigned to Greyhound bus color schemes, our once mighty airline is sliding towards blandness.

Thanks for your service in the past anyway.

All the best,
GP :ok:

Bad Adventures

24th Apr 2006, 00:11

Lower

I think it would have to be a 10 week max payout wouldn't it? I can't see them offering 2 to 3 weeks for every year of service. Maybe they'll put the bait out at 10 weeks and see what interest they get, which will probably be sweet FA but then again 10 weeks is better then nothing I guess. :ugh:

QF skywalker

24th Apr 2006, 01:22

Ozskipper you are right - I don't like being tarred with the same brush either but the moderators of the cabin crew forum think that we are all trouble.

They have closed the AO thread also for some reason. So I guess that this is our new home also.

Have all AO crew been rostered the 4 day QF conversion training ? Most of us seem to have 3 days training in CNS and a MEL overnight with one day of training in MEL for the may rosters ??

lowerlobe

24th Apr 2006, 02:10

Bad,
If you think about it,the company would definitely gain by getting rid of all it's senior crew.Even if they paid out the VR at the same rate as before,they could then re-hire crew on a lot less than we are currently paid.

So after one or two years they have gotten rid of us and our super and so on and would have recouped the money spent on VR.

Having said that,since when did the company make a decision based on logic.

If I was in their shoes and wanted to cut long term costs then a vr package would be the way to go but if they only offer 10 weeks then I/we might as well fly for another couple of rosters and keep the allowances and overtime and leave at our time and convenience.

As you said if the offer is not attractive then basically no one is going to take the offer

qcc2

24th Apr 2006, 03:07

lowerlobe you are wrong assuming they company could side step the current lh eba and employ cheaper labor into lh. having said that i still do not have a response from our union reps here whats stopping qf increasing the so called wet lease arrangements with the AO guys. remember their last eba gave qf management unlimited overseas labor, etc. :ok:
expect darth dixon to further increase his doom theory as oil hit U$ 73.-.

hawke eye

24th Apr 2006, 03:47

QCC2,
the unlimited overseas based crew was in relation to the EBA signed on behalf of AO. That Company will be wound up soon and my guess is that the EBA and any of its provisions no longer has any status.

I would not have thought QF could just wet lease ex AO cabin crew to fly in QF uniforms and on our aircraft. What EBA did we sign where both parties agreed to that?

I would be interested to see what the FAAA have to say?

Mr Seatback 2

24th Apr 2006, 03:54

Wouldn't it come under Transmission of Business?

lowerlobe

24th Apr 2006, 04:12

qcc2,
What I meant was that the company would be getting rid of crew earning say 50,000 or 60,000 and replacing them with new crew at around 25,00 to 35,000.I was not referring to any other cheap scheme Darth might have been dreaming about.

If you do that with say 500 crew ,the company could be saving millions when you take into account long service leave and super even more if they get more to take vr.

I don't think anyone including the company understands or knows the full impact or ability of the new IR laws yet so only time will tell

radiation junkie

24th Apr 2006, 06:18

Returned from LAX yesterday and CSM was certain a VR package will be announced mid June, with all those taking it, out by mid August. A lot of the "over 55" crowd will probably look at it seriously. At 52, I'm still "too young" to make it worth while. Also, the thought is, this will be the last "good payout" VR offered under the current EBA. So, I think a lot of the senior crew will take the money and run ! Regards cheap crew, as GD's illegitimate child, J* Int, takes hold, more and more routes will dissappear from Q lh. Plus with new IR rules they can legally increase the AO wetlease back door trick. As far as Q lh crew goes, we are an endangered species with no new recruitment envisaged at all. Which brings us back to the bidding system and the constant whinging from a few of the junior crew about trip allocation.
We seem to be going round in circles, but, that's what current Qantas management wants. GD will do anything to make his own "cheapy" airline creation succeed, even if it means destroying Qantas LH.
Any word from the FAAA yet ?? Or is that too much to ask!

qcc2

24th Apr 2006, 06:47

guys, the devil is always in the detail. AO might cease to exist but what stops darth to keep it under their arrangements (paint it in qf colours, change uniforms and get them back in the air)? thats why details of the so called wet lease arrangements is a major concern. as pointed out if it is transfer of business what eba,s are going to apply? then again the faaa had little notice (except blind freddy would have figured out something is going to happen to AO and prepare themselves for a variety of options).
lowerlobe i dont know if darth could employ anyone currently in lh at less then it agreed in the eba. the only place they get away with that is overseas (i think the cap has been reached). so i would not be surprised if Darth dixon would try to use AO to maintain and expand.:ok:
deafening silence from the faaa.:confused: one can only hpe MM spends some money this time and get some decent legal advise

d

lurker@R5

24th Apr 2006, 09:17

I reckon "rupert" was an faaa stooge deliberately trying to shut us down - freedom of speech is a beautiful thing - the veil of secrecy and paranoia that surrounds the new faaa office is not to be found here
actually -I like the ambience of this new room-
someone tell the boys in the union office where we are - no doubt they are lost again - I'm ready for some verbal vitriole, bullying ,verbosity and hot wind from Guardia et al.
Bring it on gentlemen.....

lowerlobe

24th Apr 2006, 11:24

Does anyone know what floor the crew room is on at the Bonaventure in LA ?

radiation junkie

24th Apr 2006, 11:27

Darth can't employ in LH at less than current EBA aggreement. He does not have to and he won't. As I and others have mentioned, J* will take care of that. The current crew levels at Q LH will remain static, the only change will be "downwards" as retirement and VR reduce the numbers. Although AO is now closed down, it has not ceased to exist. Under new the IR, they can add numbers to the old AO and so called "Cairns" base if required. The FAAA keeps telling how lucky we are with the old "no jobs lost" routine when AO was closed. What they haven't told us are the long term implications for the "real" Q LH of the "monkey see - monkey do" wet lease deal. And again with the new IR , Darth and his band of "yes, bonus please" management have hired the top specialists to make the most of the new regulations. The first priority will be Inter-Company Divisional Transfers. In a few years or maybe months, letters will be sent out to a few hundred or so Q LH crew.
"Dear valued Crew Member, due to operational requirements, you will be transfered to Q Jetstar International . Please read the following document outlining your condition of employment and new wage rates. Please contact your Team Manager to arrange signing of transfer papers, re-training schedule and collection of new uniform. Thank you for your past contribution and ongoing loyalty to our "management bonus" driven Airline Group"
I rang the FAAA and put this scenario to them some weeks ago. Did not really get an intelligent or conclusive answer. All I got was the "no jobs lost" routine, not under the current EBA, we don't really know yet and we are too busy putting the next EBA proposal together. I hope the FAAA know what they are doing.

speedbirdhouse

24th Apr 2006, 11:28

Do you mean the "Russell Crow Bar" otherwise known as "The Fight Club"?

23 or 24 if my memory serves me correctly.......

radiation junkie

24th Apr 2006, 11:31

24 th floor, but don't tell anyone. Rupert may be on line.

priapism

24th Apr 2006, 12:46

hey Mr moderator,

We were only having fun and no one was getting hurt .

would this make any difference?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/sxc__megz69/churchsignpprune.jpg

mostie

24th Apr 2006, 12:59

After the racist comments made I would much rather be here than there.

Wouldn't want him to have to run to mumsy and dadsy lest his delicate sensibilities be offended..............again.

lurker@R5

26th Apr 2006, 09:20

"The Destroyers of Shareholder Value" (formerly known as Qantas Senior Management ) are at it again.
The share price has plummeed 7cents to a low of $3.49 -19% down since February.
That's it! There are 39,000 of us employess holding shares -at the next AGM we must send a clear message to the board THAT NO PERFORMANCE BONUSES ARE TO BE PAID TO THIS PACK OF INCOMPETENTS!
One of our learned and esteemed baggage handlers or aicraft cleaners could do as good a job sending the share price south.
You can't keep blaming the barrels of oil Brownie - creative marketing, looking after staff morale & conditions - do eventually manifest on the balance sheet.
Is it too much for the faaa to put out a message expressing their concern at the poor performance of our senior management in operating this company?
(Geoff must be spewing - James Strong had his shares pegged at $5.00 -he wasn't the clown he appeared to be.)
Employees must send a clear message to Management that after all the sacrifices we have been asked to make - these guys still can't get it right in turning a profit.
Time for the blow torch to be put on our Manager's performance -from the top - right down to cabin services.
Productivity gains are made by inspiring & motivating your team - not by harrassing them about sick leave and minor grooming issues.
Time for some movement at the top of the company -up & out!

speedbirdhouse

26th Apr 2006, 23:15

A constructive approach is well beyond the abilities of fascists brown shirts that pass for management in this company.

Spoke at length with one of the bus drivers the other day.
He had never seen morale so bad across all operational areas.

Three weeks and counting for the CC VR package if the [strong] rumours are to believed.

Has the "tent city" started outside QCC1 yet.
There WILL be one. It'll be made up of CC wanting to guarantee a slot.......

qcc2

26th Apr 2006, 23:25

keep the humor up guys. :}
if we didn't have J* asia bleeding QF by more then
8o million by now and no end in sight as singapoire airlines group increased market share ex sin from silkair, tigerair and singair by 30+%. J* asia back to 5 aircraft and loads looking pretty bad.:confused:
just heard major reshuffle coming up in qf marketing/ sales . lets see the fallout for the cabin crew department. by comparison (to other major comptitors adjusted for size) we still have 2 1/2 times too many managers. :E

hawke eye

27th Apr 2006, 22:09

If you look at the cis screen you will see the reminder to fill out the engagement survey. Above that is a notice informing that more forced LSL needs to be applied for before it is automatically applied.
I wonder why crew are so disengaged? They just don't get it!

Maybe its the alleged harassing behaviour from some managers about them monitoring crew sick leave. If someone threatens to challenge them legally watch what happens. Imagine every cabin crew member who has been told they are being "monitored" or rung up before public holidays asking will they be turning up for work, giving evidence. Harassment is about whether the individual feels they have been harassed!

Sick leave and uniform standards come a distant second to improving morale. What uniform standard is that? There are so many variations on the uniform - male and female there is nothing standard about it. Quite often the passengers have trouble figuring out who is crew and who isnt.

Oh yeah the crew are the ones who for some unknown reason are still doing a meal service five hours after take off.:ok:

lowerlobe

28th Apr 2006, 02:37

Flugbegleiter

29th Apr 2006, 00:49

Hello all,
I haven't been here for a while, but I am glad to see that we have a new home. I know that our forum did occassionally get a little out of hand, but [EDIT] Tightslot didn't help. If some of us got a little "passionate" sometimes, it was for good reason.
Blah blah blah, I'm going to take a little allocated LSL. You lot were moved here from the CC forum for misbehaviour. Using abusive language towards another moderator or your colleagues will see you out of here as well
Woomera (Eastern States)

radiation junkie

29th Apr 2006, 04:45

It was not about getting a little "passionate", but about a few fools who don't fly, never have flown or have any idea of Qantas or crew in general. Throwing stupid remarks and insults for "zero" reason to get a reaction was not the original idea of the Qantas thread. Hopefully we have seen the last of these idiots like "rupert" or never "flyagain1day". The general discussion, regardless of viewpoint or agreement from genuine crew members, FAAA people, SH and LH was aways healthy, fun and topical.

cartexchange

29th Apr 2006, 06:51

Mismanagement at its best.
the Kiwi sociopath has been promoted.
CSM's will now be under his scrutiny............................
i wonder who will get him!
:{ :{ :{

radiation junkie

29th Apr 2006, 08:58

Unfortunately, he seems to be untouchable. Initially, he got the job through LG, mates from the old Air NZ days. So, while she is around, so is the sociopath. What I don't understand is how he can go to work knowing that the people he deals with (crew) all think he is an idiot. Plus the people he works with (other team managers , BOS, etc ) also all think he is an idiot. What's the point ? Am I missing something here ? Someone please give him a razor-blade !

ozskipper

29th Apr 2006, 10:27

I have to say its something I've never understood - crew are very vocal about what's happening in the workplace, but when given the opportunity to put it in writing anonymously (via the engagement survey) no one fills it out!

It seems a bit counterproductive really :)

blueloo

29th Apr 2006, 11:11

At least they give some people an engagement survey............

flyagain1day

30th Apr 2006, 00:47

I am still here everyone. :} :D

Looking forward to my next exchange with a few of you.:rolleyes:

radiation junkie

30th Apr 2006, 08:11

Where did you get that statistic from. I and surely many others have filled out the "engagement survey" when given the opportunity. Whether the survey has any impact at all, is another question. If Management realise, via the survey, that crew are unhappy with current "status quo", what is their response.... tough titties !

ozskipper

30th Apr 2006, 09:21

Apparently the company needs at least 20% of crew to out the survey and they have not got anywhere near that figure and hence the extension.
That kind of sums up the attitude of crew towards the current management doesn't it...no real need to fill it out and vent your feelings,just let them work it out.

I was responding to the above. If they need at least 20% and they haven't even got that, then thats suggests to me that at least 80% of the crew haven't filled it out (and in my book thats most).

That's of course if the the above figures are accurate :)

radiation junkie

30th Apr 2006, 11:25

......don't call me surely !

hawke eye

2nd May 2006, 06:33

It seems there is a " supposed" long standing agreementwith the FAAA to be involved and to participate with the Company for any new selection of crew accommodation.
The FAAA are reresentatives of cabin crew. It appears that the Company by ignoring any accommodation agreements may as well be saying that we have no interest in abiding by this particular agreement. Recent examples - LA, JFK, NRT, etc.
They then have the audacity to ask us if due to some unexpected flight delay if we will consider extending. They ask if we will do the right thing by them (our managers) and the Company.
They then want us to fill out a survey (waste of time) to let them know how we feel.
Dont be led by any spin. I believe that the company wishes us to view the FAAA(the union) as a seperate entity to us. Its time the FAAA reminded all crew and more importantly - The Company, that the FAAA are cabin crew. When the Company refuses or chooses to abide by an agreement with the union - The FAAA, such as the accommodation agreement then surely they should appreciate what a slap in the face it is to ALL of US - the LH cabin crew who work so hard (proven by recent customer survey results) for the Company; too any person with basic intelligence an agreement is a document representing a mutal understanding , a sign of co-operation and respect!!!!!
What the in the hell is this Company coming to with behaviour like this?????:eek:

cartexchange

2nd May 2006, 06:39

Hawkeye I cant see the relevance of the FAAA when it comes to accomodation.
Have a look at the situation in Singapore, the LHR and s/haul crew get allocated the good rooms and the SYD and BNE base the crap rooms.
Where is the FAAA in this situation,the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get really nice rooms and we get the ****ty lower floors.
hmmmm so tell me how the FAAA are helping us here.
Looks like you don't have to be in the Union to get decent accomodation!

hawke eye

2nd May 2006, 07:10

Cart Ex, your post proves my point.
The Faaa - (LH cabincrew) are not respected by our management. You (and All of us) as crew members are not considered (if what you say is true) when it comes to accommodation.
If we have no say with new accommodation slection processes, why should the FAAA be consulted over any other accom issue. By the way this is the first I have heard of it. Have you filled in icans and sent them to the fAAA to give them some evidence to enable them to take action on this issue you have described

cartexchange

2nd May 2006, 07:30

HAwkeye
the situation in Singapore is getting to be ridiculous.
The answer to your question is Yes, I have filled out Icans and No I have not informed the FAAA as I have no faith in them anymore.
At the end of a trip I'm so tired that I see its fruitless to go upstairs at QCC and photocopy my Icans for the FAAA as I know they will do NOTHING, the point is proven by the bad conditions at the LHR hotel and the fact that the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get the best rooms.(in SIN)
If I were the FAAA I would approach the company and state that if they want to save money they can accomodate the LHR BKK and AKL crew anywhere,(cheaper accom.) after all what are they going to to do!
but then what are the FAAA going to do!
As the SIN hotel staff told me! its go nothing to do where you are based its all about the flight number how they allocate rooms, and they dont give a Fig where you are based, again what is the point of being a FAAA member is you cant even get a decent bar of soap.

OCCR

2nd May 2006, 07:41

I could not agree more!
The Sin accomodation is beyond a joke.
We certainlly do get the crap rooms and the LHR crew meander up to the new rooms,,,,,, where is the FAAA........ like the crew said on my trip, Why bother contacting them! you have a better chance in dealing with the VISITORS!
I think they are right/

lurker@R5

2nd May 2006, 09:03

I was feeling a little DISENGAGED on last night's sector so when the CSM went on his break (after reading the Tele) I slipped into 4K and watched the doco/ movie "ENRON: THE SMARTEST GUYS IN THE ROOM".
The analogies between Enron senior management and Qantas are amazing .
Not from a conscious corruption point of view - but rather from the arrogance , hubris and contempt with which they treat their staff. and the blatant lies that management tell their employees.
Qantas senior management really do believe they are the smartest boys in corporate Australia - whenever anything goes wrong - they ALWAYS BLAME EXTERNALITIES. "Its a tough enviroment, competitive market, expensive oil...blah blah blah.."
Its never - "Hey , we really fukced up on that decision.."
What fools would launch a new airline before they secured landing rights into the country they wished to fly into (cost to shareholder for Jetstar Asia -$80 million & rising)?
AO -another abortion of a business plan.
And who forgot to HEDGE the price of oil barrels? (Even that fat heap of merde Toomey knew how to hedge a barrel of oil -thats the only thing that made the Strong regime look good)
The FAAA needs to put the blow torch on senior managements performance - as has been posted here -they are treating the union with contempt - its time we - THE UNION - made our senior management UNCOMFORTABLE.
Also -a copy of the ENRON movie should be placed in every FAAA members file - this would be a good use on union fee money - if you like I'll get john in SIN to whip up a few thousand copies.
As the Finacial Review stated last week - Geoff Dixon leads a team that (quote) "destroys shareholder value".
Time for heads to role - bring on the AGM.
QANTAS MANAGEMENT -The smartest guys in the room - NOT!!

Animalclub

3rd May 2006, 01:56

CSM has time to read the Tele and what appears to be an operating cabin attendent has time to watch a movie whilst "on duty - when the boss is out of the way".

Who has been complaining about the lack of service on Qantas?

Bolty McBolt

3rd May 2006, 05:27

cartexchange

3rd May 2006, 05:43

that is the whole point!
What are the FAAA doing about this!
Once again you can be a MAM non union or QFUK non union and still get good rooms, so what is the point of the FAAA accommodation committee if they cant even guarantee their own members get a decent room!:rolleyes:

Bad Adventures

3rd May 2006, 23:21

I think decent rooms are the least of our worries.

A quote from 'The Melbourne Age' yesterday.

There is speculation Qantas may accelerate the expansion of Jetstar International to speed up its austerity drive, and possibly cut the wages and conditions of staff, including pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

Mr Seatback 2

3rd May 2006, 23:43

In terms of accommodation, all MAM crew are governed by the agreement between FAAA and Qantas. Whether or not you're a union member makes no difference - your conditions are governed by the agreements between these two parties.

Like Bad Adventures has said, I think we all need to reconsider our focus. Bad rooms are one thing...'accelerated' cost cutting by the Q is another threat coming our way which will have greater implications on all of us!

pcpilot2

4th May 2006, 02:31

This is the way I see it.
A group of share holders own shares in a company and the aim is to get the best return on their money as possible.
Dixon has been appointed to run the place and is paid a squillion to do it.
He basically has to use the companies assets to generate as much income as possible while driving down costs as far as he can.Pretty simple really.
He will do whatever it takes to push those costs down.
Why wouldn'd he when he is paid fat bonus's to maximise the return on capital.You would too.
He obviousely hasn't been able to tell the oil companies to sharpen their pencill's and knock a few cents off a litre of kero.Boeing and Airbus are still making good money although they are reducing the cost per seat kilometer flown to their customers.The airports are jacking up their prices all the time even though Dixon and Goddfrey over at VB have been thundering blue murder about it.
So he is working to reduce his cost of staff.And what are they going to do about it? or more importantly to Dixon what can they do about it?.
Sweet kcufall I reckon.The new IR laws will crucify any strikers and the majority won't go out anyway.
He has started to divide the workforce by introducing Jestar on lower wages,admittedly he had to combat VB and any other LCC thinking of having ago in the Australian market in the short term.Now he will in time roll mainline over into Jestar but keep the two products seperate.How can the mainline crews stand up and say that they should be paid more to operate the same size equipement as Jestar eg 737/A320,A330/787 etc.I know the mainline people are going to go through the roof but really how can they justify it.
The engineering side of things has started to be reamed out.He has to be carefull here because he can't go running to Howard saying ''save me save me from the big bad Singair on the run to LA'' on one hand and on the other outsource all the R&M to overseas workshops where the cheap labour is.Holy bloody hell the Labour Party and the unions would have a field day and be able to hammer Howard all the way to the next election with that one.The Government is desperate to keep the Australian public feeling secure and the last thing they need is Qantas rampaging and pillageing through its workforce like there's no tomorrow.Look what happened at the Curra meatworks.
It will take time and things may get as rough as hell but he will get his way and all the time the costs of staff will be trending down.
This will happen right across the board.Like night follows day.
So what can be done about it.I suppose you could say 'stuff this' and leave.
It's not going to hurt the compay because their are many people who would crawl over broken glass to get into Qantas and anyway they are talking about VR'S in the back part of the plane.And all you are going to do is stuff your own family around with the relocating,drop in pay,stess of finding another job,etc.
I say get a secound income.You work it out what it is,one that you can fit around the job you have already got.Just do it.
Over time your secound income will become your primary source of revenue and then you have control.To control your life style you must have contol of your income.Fact.
Then it's up to you what to do.If you like the job a lot,stay.If not,take the gate option.
All I see in Qantas is a lot of stress.Stress kills in the long term.
Remember,management is on a crusade to reduce costs and will not stop untill they get them down to where they they want them.Management is under pressure also,their jobs and careers are on the line also.

Now just give me enough time to get out of the room and shut the door before the rocks and knives are thrown please.

mrpaxing

4th May 2006, 03:37

pcpilot2. you have some very valid points. there are strategies qf unions could coordinate but there appears to be little corporation amongst them. dont forget to reduce stress you may have to take some more sickleave (stress leave). dont forget to record every phonecall you get from the office.
now, my sources tell me that a VR package is on the way for LH cabin crew.
form 2 lines, hurry hurry, dont break down the doors at qcc4.:ok:

speedbirdhouse

4th May 2006, 05:30

IMO the Australian public are getting increasingly nervous about the massive IR power shift that the howard "government" has imposed on the average worker.

Abuse of this power is happening already and will do much to boost the union movement whilst making the slimeball howard's re-election VERY difficult.

I don't believe that the thinking voter WANTS to pass on poorer working conditions and third world wages to their kids...........

priapism

4th May 2006, 05:40

A very succinct yet accurate summary pcpilot.

lurker@R5

4th May 2006, 09:15

Now that Qantas appears to be buying into non -core aviation business' such as trains(!) "Qantas -The Poor Man's Patricks"-Rottweillers & All - should we start referrring to the CEO as "THE FAT CONTROLLER?"

Also with the transmission of business I've been told by one of the visitors that L/H crew will soon be operating the Riverina Express and there are 6 day patterns planned for the Indian Pacific.
So, what's the 3 letter code for Goulburn and....
"Would you like sauce with that pie luv?!"

priapism

5th May 2006, 06:37

Perish the thought Lurker! I wouldn't like to see Q.F Long Haul service inflicted on any poor train travellers . They have it bad enough already.

qcc2

5th May 2006, 06:45

pria(pism)madonna, we would leave the 3 day perth return (one way on the indian pacific)to our domestic kids. it suits their personalities/:E

priapism

5th May 2006, 08:23

That might be hard , they will be required on the Q.F owned brigs sailing between the capital cities! Departing daily!

cartexchange

5th May 2006, 14:06

just had a look at the patterns for bid 245,
ohhhh the sick leave is going to go through the roof, it will cost QF a fortune in phone calls to the crew inquiring about their sick leave...
I have seen some stupid things in my life but this really beats it all.

Simon Templar

5th May 2006, 14:14

As I mentioned on 06.04.2006 CARMEN is a mean and nasty rostering system and Qantas have begun using it......watch out....BP245 is just a taste.:{ :{

cartexchange

5th May 2006, 14:17

yes its bad.
The BNE base seem to have really copped it.
There is a simple solution, its called IM SICK!

qcc2

5th May 2006, 23:21

i agree, carmen you are a wonderful tool. makes me take more time to reflect on my outstanding sickleave balance.:E

cartexchange

6th May 2006, 00:07

this will be very popular.......
after doing a per syd they want us to transit for a few hours and then do to DRW and to top it all off why dont we send you to that hell hole BOM
+-----------------------+
|* Pattern: BI03 | Base: SYD Status: A Complement: FSD 1 C/S 1 CFA 2 A/C 5
+-----------------------+
Route Code: BOM09 Weeks: 4 8 Dates Op: 05/07, 02/08
Skills:

Cnfg Report Departure Arrival Slip Transit Minimum Duty Duty
V Service Type Pax Sectors Time Day LST UTC Day LST UTC Time Time Rest Hours Credit
2 QFA0583 C SYD/PER 1810 WE 1925 0925 WE 2230 1430 24:15 12:00 6:50 6:50
QFA0518 C PER/SYD 2315 FR 0015 1615 FR 0610 2010 TRANSIT 3:50 ------ ------ ------
QFA0123 3 SYD/DRW FR 1000 0000 FR 1350 0420 47:40 12:10 13:35 13:35
QFA0123 3 DRW/BOM 1400 SU 1500 0530 SU 1950 1420 72:00 12:40 10:20 10:20
QFA0124 3 BOM/SYD 2020 WE 2120 1550 TH 1405 0405 13:45 13:45

Days Away: 9 Minimum Base Turnaround: 3 Available: 0600 Overtime 1: 3:20 Overtime 2: 0:00 ODTA: 4 ADTA: 4
+---------------------------+
Totals: Duty Hours: 44:30 Flight Duty Credit: 44:30 Elapsed Time Credit: 47:06 | Applicable Credit: 47:06 |
+---------------------------+

Left2assist

6th May 2006, 00:31

Lets see.....

My sick leave balance is around 170 days.

Absolutely no shortage of sympathetic Doctors out there.

Talk to your collegues........

"Whats the nature of your sickness ?", goes something like this-

"I'm not sure as I'm not a doctor but after seeing one you will be the first to know."

Don't bother calling back.

My Doctor refuses to put the nature of my illness on certificates prefering just to write, "illness".

He enjoys telling Qantas clerks who call him to ask, "piss off, it's none of your business". :E

fright attendant

6th May 2006, 00:49

I like the new patterns.
The bid book was really getting "same old same old". And I've been getting the same tired old flying all the time. All I can say is
you can please some of the people all of the time
all of the people some of the time
but not all of the people all of the time...
At least the system give us a lot more variety, especially the people up in BNE and down in MEL... There's alot of good slip time in certain ports too...
It looks to me like the company are going to be forking out alot more in allowances, as well as a sh*t load of overtime with some of the patterns CARMEN has given us in one of her nasty moods... Yes some of the patterns suck if you don't like certain places....
Something tells me this will end up costing THEM money. Another shortsighted beancounter strategy? Or is someone at QF getting a nice kickback from they people at CARMEN's software company?

Hugh Jarse

6th May 2006, 04:52

L2Assist wrote:My Doctor refuses to put the nature of my illness on certificates prefering just to write, "illness".

Quite correct. This is a result of privacy legislation, which gives doctors latitude to protect such information. It's your choice.

So if you're sick, you're sick.:ok:

Wed Webbing Woop

6th May 2006, 05:37

I wonder what the boyz at the Miranda Fishing club think about Carmen ????
Their "pace makers" will probably blow a fuse when they see their precious 4 and 5 day "sojourns" North & South of SYD ( NRT-CNS and LAX ) indispersed with the crap that others have been doing for years.
Any way, not long to go before the "V" for victory is announced.
Exit -stage -left!!!!!
www

cartexchange

6th May 2006, 05:37

[QUOTE=fright attendant]I like the new patterns.
The bid book was really getting "same old same old". And I've been getting the same tired old flying all the time. All I can say is
you can please some of the people all of the time
all of the people some of the time
but not all of the people all of the time...
At least the system give us a lot more variety, especially the people up in BNE and down in MEL... QUOTE]

thats ok if you like the new patterns then you do them, ok by me!
Why dont you put down as your number one bid the pattern that goes
SYD ADL SIN
SIN DRW ADL MEL
MEL SIN
SIN DRW ADL SYD.

It's there have a look!
Mel seems to have done ok so far, BNE have copped it big by getting
BOM SYD TRANSIT2 HOURS
PAX SYD BNE 17 15 HOURS TOUR OF DUTY

B A Lert

6th May 2006, 07:24

Why are you malcontents complaining about? The produced and published rosters are allowed under the EBA that was voted upon by a majority of your colleagues. In fact, these rosters would have been legal years ago if they were able to have been planned. As the schedules allow & the new system is able to produce lines like this, you had better get used to working (harder) in accordance with T's and C's agreed between your union and employer.

And yair. You do have a choice. Either accept what is on offer or p!ss off and find something that offers conditions that are more to your liking and appropriate for your skills. There is no shortage of young people who would kill to have your jobs, no matter what you may think.

Happy flying. :{ :{

qcc2

6th May 2006, 07:35

b a lert how little you understand. there is another option. it just needs the three stooges from the faaa to get of their a**** and challenge it through the right channels. it's called fatigue management. as i said before i love carmen, its going to pro-actively make me manage my sickleave balance. and there is lots of it.

Bad Adventures

6th May 2006, 08:08

Yes, just reading where B A Fart was laughed off the pilots forum for similar ignorant stupidity. I feel just another desk jockey who’s tried to photocopy his arse in order to impress the boss’s PA but ended up with a lobotomy. :ugh: :ugh:

mostie

6th May 2006, 08:24

Hey BALERT ,

lots of young people just waiting to do our jobs, eh???

What a shame only those in Thailand, New Zealand and the UK would ever get a look in under the Rat's "de-Australianization Program".

-----------------

Make sure when one of the "brown shirts" call you at home to enquire about your "wellbeing" after reporting sick that you explain how touched you are by their concern.

Explain that under the old guard nobody seemed to care and what an improvement the new system is.

It leaves them, faaaaaarked............ :ok:

B A Lert

6th May 2006, 09:02

Oh dear. Why do we waste our time replying to the challenged? Attitudes like those expressed above show just why GD is trying his best to bust the FAAA. Entrenched work practices and exploitation of the employer by taking 'sickies', aided and abetted by unscruplous medical practitioners, achieves nothing. When will you get thge message and realise that it is counter-productive?

Yair. There is another choice over which you have some influence. Get involved and take an active interest in the FAAA. I wonder, for example, how many of you bothered to vote at the last election???

Lastly if you want to be taken with a pinch of seriousness and sincerity, stick to the issue. I am neither stupid, ignorant nor, as one of you so eloquently described, an arsehole. That just about sums up the level of your debating skills - if you don't like what someone says, just hurl insults. I hope that you don't treat our customers like this but with the maturity that some of you display, I can't be too sure.:yuk: :yuk:

mostie

6th May 2006, 09:29

Don't worry bealert,

qf will "get the message" quick smart about just how "counterproductive" planning 17 + hour tours of duty are when trip after trip has to be crewed by those called out from standby.........

As for the morality of calling in sick when rostered to operate this kind of rubbish???

It might help you to think of it as OUR form of fatigue management.

Easy.

speedbirdhouse

6th May 2006, 09:58

balert,

tell us all again will you about all the young Thais, Kiwis and Poms just iching to get our jobs..........

Just love it when you try and take the high moral ground.:ok:

fright attendant

7th May 2006, 08:34

Cart exchange...
You are right - that pattern sucks big time, and yes I want to slap Carmen across the chops for it. Think I will pass on your suggestion of putting that as my top bid.
That kind of pattern aside, overall I think the increase in variety is a good thing. We all like to do different stuff as we all have different lifestyles, different needs, family commitments etc. If you don't like particular patterns - don't bid for them. And if you do get them and happen to suddenly "feel ill" - if it works for you then call 1800 GO SICK. Then enjoy being sent to Africa or Bombay or somewhere else you hate to offset your pay protection. Or maybe you can just drop the hours if you are rolling in cash. Those crew sitting around on their arses on standby will be greatfull for a trip with a stack of overtime..
For me, I like the trips with big hours, and having blocks of time at home of a few days.. And as a commuter, these recent years have been difficult as trip length overall has shortened, making commuting more costly (won't even talk about the f&**ing fuel levy!). So more choice of flying with more hours per trip will be great for me. Maybe not so if you have family, but there are still heaps of shorter trips if thats your cup of tea.
A few of my mates up in Brissie are looking forward to the changes as all they have been doing up there is back to back 3 day SIN. And the continuous service they do on the QF52 aint nice...
As has already been suggested, what we need is an instant online trip swap system with NO interference from the company as long as the swaps fall within our work rules (hours and min rest etc).

cartexchange

7th May 2006, 09:59

FLIGHT ATTENDANT I have to agree with what you say.
I probably wont have to do any of those horror trips but I really feel so sorry for those poor crew that do have to do them.
how in the faark did the FAAA approve the PER SYD DRW with a 4 hour transit in Syd after doing the red eye.
well Eden! what about the BOM/SYD/BNE 17 hours, i thought we had to have horizontal rest for that kind of planned duty?

Eagleman

7th May 2006, 10:18

Have a big air suck, grab your hand bag and go sick!!!

real professionals!!!!!!!

You don't have to work in the industry you know!

cartexchange

7th May 2006, 10:29

EAGLE MAN
such words of wisdom I'm impressed WOW you are such a hero!
How about you stick to the drivers forum and give them such words of of value they really need you help at the moment.
I would really have to put your comments in the tw@t category!:mad:

mostie

7th May 2006, 10:29

When subjected to a 17+ hour overnight tour of duty with the ONLY provision available for crew rest an economy class seat.

You betcha!!!! Every day of the week.

Just curious.

How many 17+ hour working days have you done this week??

Eagleman

7th May 2006, 11:01

Hit a raw nerve did we cartie? xoxoxoxox

where will i put this? :ok:

Eagleman

7th May 2006, 11:04

I know in the tw@t category!:mad:

cartexchange

7th May 2006, 11:11

hit a nerve! hmmm.
Yes stupid comments usually do that to me!
Anyway how about you scurry away to the drivers forum and keep an eye on the Jet*Boogeyman!

Eagleman

7th May 2006, 11:20

No. Whether you, or I, like it or not, the job is not going to remain in the "bygone era".

The concessions have been made. Money cannot buy out fatigue. The minute a union rep agrees to accept money for a non standard pairing, it becomes the status quo and it can and will be extended to other parts of the network.

Bleating will not change this reality. That is why I say, if you don't like it, find a job that gives you the pleasure you seek! And cartie, old snag, that goes for the drivers as well!!!

mostie

7th May 2006, 11:35

eagleman,

why on earth would money do anything to reduce the amount of fatigue and sleep deprivation this particular sector inflicts??

I'll ask my doctor when I report sick for this duty for his advise.

Don't worry about it though.

When I'm rostered for a duty that ignores the fact that I am a human being with pysiological NEEDS I ignore the fact that QF is a business.

Simple, fair AND easy.......:ok:

Animalclub

8th May 2006, 04:01

Is anyone being asked to do anything outside the law or the Terms and Conditions agreed to by your union/association?

17.5 hours tour of duty seems excessive. Is that legal? It wasn't in my day.

B A Lert

8th May 2006, 04:54

Is anyone being asked to do anything outside the law or the Terms and Conditions agreed to by your union/association?
17.5 hours tour of duty seems excessive. Is that legal? It wasn't in my day.

AC - the answer to each question is a big NO and NO. Before patterns are published to crew, they will have all been reviewed by the Union. The same routine applies to the drivers. Can you imagine the mock horror and disgust if the Airline published an illegal roster? It's OK for crew to rip off the Airline with "sickies" but the Airline has no rights when it wants to roster its staff in trhe most cost effective and efficient manner.

radiation junkie

8th May 2006, 05:16

B A Lert ! Hey, have I missed something here ! I always thought that we were able to use our sick leave if we were unwell. Didn't realize I was stealing from the Airline. Well, that's the last time I take any sickleave.
Anyway, no need to, as the company has been looking after my best interests and due to the ongoing fatigue I have been suffering, directed me to take Long Service Leave, which should get my health back up to scratch. Thank you Qantas. We are not worthy....
Can't wait for the "thank you" bonus and gold watch when I retire for leaving almost a years unused sick leave accrued.

lowerlobe

8th May 2006, 05:58

Perhaps Ba Lert could enlighten us as to how he knows the intricacies of both tech crew and cabin crew and is fully cognizant of the problems that crew face without ever having done the job.

Apparently Ba is an aviation expert and and expert at most other things as well and we should be grateful for his contribution to these debates.

I have a few questions BA as you obviously feel the need to tell other people how to do their jobs and run their lives. As radiation junkie mentioned since when was going sick stealing from the company, I don’t suppose you have ever been sick and unable to make it to work.

Apparently, other sections of the company do not get sick and steal from the company either, it is just crew but then that is probably because they don’t stand up in a pressurized steel tube for anywhere between 12 and 17 hours at a time with only 20 minutes off AFTER the first 6 hours .

Unlike BA and the other office dwellers who get a morning tea break after one and a half hours work then a lunch break just 2 hours after that and then rarely do more than 8 or 9 hours total not counting these breaks.

Ba you are about as wanted as a young liberal at a labor caucus meeting. How about giving other sections of the community the benefit of your drivel, but then you probably already do...

B A Lert

8th May 2006, 07:20

As usual, attack the individual rather than the issue! That is the normal form of attack for those without a defence.

LowerLobe says anywhere between 12 and 17 hours at a time with only 20 minutes off AFTER the first 6 hours.

Why not tell the full story. Don't you get a further 30 minutes every four hours after the first six? Not only that, many of your colleagues freely admit to liking these kinds of the patterns for their own purposes such as more money and more time off at home.

As for sickness, the implications in posts here is that FA's will 'go sick' if they don't like a particular pattern. "going sick" has as we all know a different meaning to "being sick". That's why so many of your colleagues go sick in the days before Xmas, New Year and, thurprthe thurprithe, the Gay Mardi Gras. You know it, we all know it and that's why your Managers call you from time to time to check on your well-being. Have you ever thought that if people were honest, this practice wouldn't be necessary?

If life is so arduous in the air and so cushy in an office, why don't you save us all and transfer to ground staff? You will find there that you will require more than a few weeks of training to be a success and have to put in a lot more hours than those for which you are paid, unlike life as a FA.

fright attendant

8th May 2006, 07:42

BA Alert
It's OK for crew to rip off the Airline with "sickies" but the Airline has no rights when it wants to roster its staff in trhe most cost effective and efficient manner.
Its not really "cost efficient" in the long term to plan sectors like the 17.5hour tour of duty, as crew will ultimately call in sick. The company calls out crew on standby. Lets say its towards the end of the bid period when the crew member is on double pay (after the minimum guarantee hours of say 155). So now you have the crew originally rostered being payed hours for going sick, as well as the standby crew being paid as well. The decisions the company make are very short sighted.
I don't condone going sick, as I mentioned in my last post you only end up having to work off the pay protection anyway. It is the reality of what happens when the company come up with such patterns.
Its not just the long tour of duty either, its also the fact that with it being a night sector out of Asia, the crew will most probably have been awake since 7am AEST and will have tried to have a lie down before call to little avail. So by the time you end up back in your home port, you will have been without any quality sleep for THIRTY HOURS!!!! And we are still expected to be able to operate safely!!

mostie

8th May 2006, 08:06

balert,

Quote-

" your Managers call you from time to time to check on your well-being. Have you ever thought that if people were honest, this practice wouldn't be necessary?"

-------

Are you trying to say that when the "brown shirts" call they are not really doing so out of genuine concern for my wellbeing???

Well if that's the case isn't that called harrasment, bullying and intimidation, all of which I understand is against the law AND company policy?

And you recon you are not stupid??

Of course, not that anyone needed YOUR confirmation that fascist bully boys run QF.......

twiggs

8th May 2006, 10:00

Is anyone being asked to do anything outside the law or the Terms and Conditions agreed to by your union/association?
17.5 hours tour of duty seems excessive. Is that legal? It wasn't in my day.

It seems that some people are being a bit careless with the facts.
The following are 2 extracts from the longhaul EBA IV which has the duty hour limitations.

25. FLIGHT DUTY PERIOD LIMITATIONS
25.1. Operating flight duty periods
25.1.1. Multi sector operating flight duty periods
(a) A flight attendant may be planned to a maximum of 14 hours operating
flight duty.

25.2.2. Where the last sector of a flight duty period is deadheading
flight duty:
(a) A flight attendant may be planned to a maximum of 1 8 hours flight
duty into his/her base at the completion of a pattern, however where the
total flight duty period exceeds 14 hours the operating flight duty
element must not exceed 14 hours.

So what wasn't mentioned above it seems is that the operating portion of the duty is 14 hours or less and the rest is transit and paxing.

Capt Fathom

8th May 2006, 11:08

25. FLIGHT DUTY PERIOD LIMITATIONS
25.1. Operating flight duty periods
25.1.1. Multi sector operating flight duty periods
(a) A flight attendant may be planned to a maximum of 14 hours operating
flight duty.
In excess of 14 hours is allowed for single sector operations!

twiggs

8th May 2006, 11:16

In excess of 14 hours is allowed for single sector operations!

Yes capt,
but multi sector is what was being referred to above.
(and with single sector above 14, horizontal crew rest must be supplied.)

Captahab

8th May 2006, 12:30

U:\ believable

Not even three weeks yet and we are up to five pages of bitchin an whining.

Is anyone else getting fed up with this carryon on a PP forum.

Can you bunch of mincing primadonnas go and do some flaming work instead of complaining about how tough it is, if you dont like it then go back to working in Target and David Jones.....Sheeeeeshh

I feel better now.....NURSE....more pills please.

Ahab :D

Left2assist

8th May 2006, 12:34

Thanks for the enlightened outburst cptahab.
If you dont like it don't read it.
Been rostered for any 17+ hour work days lately?

Captahab

8th May 2006, 12:41

If you dont like it don't read it.

And if you dont like it dont do it and just stop whining about it.

Crossbleed

8th May 2006, 13:54

Aaahh, y'know, watching this thread weave it's merry meandering way through all sorts of hoo-har as brought memories flooding back. Memories of the day (this one in particular), when I sat by the pool in J'Burg and observed the QF society in action. T'was a long slip, and the 2X744 KLM crews in the hotel provided a stark and utterly depressing glimpse of what was wrong with the rat. I'm talking about the all-perveying "them and us" syndrome.
Me="techie?" hate that term. Who invented it anyway?
Them=the lovely desirables, orright some of them.
Cast my eye over to the pool and it looked like a goddamn family reunion. Damned if I could tell the "Skipper" (another silly term) from the CSM from the SO/FO/FW etc. Methinks 'What the hell? pride of Australia my ars#." they were having a ball. The FO and I immediately deserted our posts and joined 'em. One of the best layovers ever.
Don't work there anymore.
So why is that all-purveying social schism there, was it just the 744? Oh god, was it me?

ACARS747

8th May 2006, 22:27

As predicted the QANTAS techies have been posting their drivel even on this site.
And they wonder why the rest of the QF employee workforce have such disdain for them.
There is KARMA! just watch the jet star boys have them for breakfast, don't show them any sympathy they deserve what they get.
In our group we are sitting back and laughing, Jet star will put them where they belong........pushing lawn mowers or driving cabs.....

Capt Fathom

9th May 2006, 00:02

Is this the Jetstar (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=225045) you were referring to?
Sitting back and laughing at each others' demise. You Aussies certainly have a warped sense of humour!... :confused:

cartexchange

9th May 2006, 01:34

Capt fathom
Yes you're quite right!
But there is one important factor to consider here!.
From my observation, it was the pilots that started the insults on this Cabin crew thread, At no stage were their opinions and attacks on cabin crew solicited.
I suppose the right thing to have done was to ignore it!
So maybe your post would have a bit more impact on our techie threads.

Animalclub

9th May 2006, 03:45

As it appears that you aren't being asked to do anythying illegal or against your union/association rules - just do the work.

If you don't agree with the deal that your union/association has done with the company do something about it - with your union/association. Don't take it out on the company... I don't care which company.

If you are sick - take time off.
If you're not sick - go to work.

qcc2

9th May 2006, 04:47

doesn't take me back. it keeps reminding me every trip i do an f/o, s/o comes onto the bus waves a hand and sits down. no communication whatsoever. the usual personality traits.:} :}

radiation junkie

9th May 2006, 14:05

qcc2... I think you have made a error. Should have read, ...the usual traits. There is no "Personality" involved at all.

jaded boiler

9th May 2006, 14:37

acars747 i can direct you to some wonderful therapists who would be of great assistance in empowering you to deal with your QF employment rejection issues. You're obviously at the second stage of the grieving process, which is anger, as you reach stage five however you will discover acceptance.

Crossbleed

9th May 2006, 22:30

as you reach stage five however you will discover acceptance.
stage six: realise that you should have left this aviation backwater and gone O/S straight after ATPL theory, entered an arranged marraige with a European guy/gal and never look back?:} :E

funbags

9th May 2006, 22:39

"doesn't take me back. it keeps reminding me every trip i do an f/o, s/o comes onto the bus waves a hand and sits down. no communication whatsoever. the usual personality traits"

qcc2

With an attitude like that, I will feel even more justified with not going down the back of the bus to introduce myself !

Sort of like the fact you never come up to the flight deck to introduce yourselves to us. :rolleyes:

Crossbleed

9th May 2006, 23:07

With an attitude like that, I will feel even more justified with not going down the back of the bus to introduce myself !
And so it goes, on and on, the world-reknown self- perpetuating hostility that is the rat's hallmark.
Even MORE? justified, my question is; What was the original justification?
IMHO two things need to happen;
Firstly the pilot's should introduce themselves on the bus or somewhere and have the crew do a "ring-around" the room. Eg; HI!!I'm Sandy at left 5, I enjoy watersports and eating-healthy, G'Day, my name's Johnny and I look nineteen because I am (the SO.) Works well in other companies.
Secondly; the terminology needs to change. We are ALL FLightcrew, there are some pilots, and there are some flight attendants. Full stop. This "Techie" thing is absurd. Out in the world, describing yourself as a "techie" is liable to get you invited to wire-up somebody's stereo.:E
Whaddya all reckon? The rot has to stop sometime, and some-one has to start. O/W it's gonna be like Palestine forever.
Not that I care.:D

qcc2

10th May 2006, 05:59

on most occassions i do get to meet the "techies". :eek: i just considered the tone of crossbleeds comments and replied with a real story. and lets face it most times you guys are late onto the bus anyway.:ok:

lowerlobe

10th May 2006, 22:36

It’s funny isn’t it when some tech crew have a shot at us for being unhappy with management and the deteriorating conditions and we all know how tech crew never complain about their job or conditions especially now with JET*.

“I will feel even more justified with not going down the back of the bus to introduce myself!”

Two points,
1: Funbags has admitted that she does not out of her way to introduce herself.
2: Funbags admits that she is a bus driver.

We both have separate jobs with completely different problems so let’s stick to the real problems at hand at that is the company and it’s relentless drive to slash conditions while at the same time increasing theirs. We already have management robots here stirring up trouble so let’s not add to that with tech and cabin crew friction and as someone else posted we are crew and like it or not we are in the same boat or aircraft if you know what I mean.

lurker@R5

11th May 2006, 09:05

yes, its a shame somebody didn't remind the pilots about solidarity during the 1981 SP dispute - those little S/Os who were pushing our bar carts up & down the aisle on the direct LAs while we were on strike for better pay & conditions -are now fully blown squincter captains......

anyway -don't you just love the way the FAAA exec -has banned their office storm troopers from posting on pprune - you'd think a 17hr 15min pattern would reqire comment from the usually verbose - but the silence is both pathetic & sickening -
when it comes to the suppression of freedom of speech & debate -Mao & Stalin had nothing on the present incumbents of the FAAA office if a member should dare to disagree with the party line.

Meanwhile -a very reliable source close to the union office confirmed with me yesterday that the OVERRIDING priority of the FAAA executives is thier own re-election so that they never have to PERONALLY fly again -
guys if you want to be seagulls - leave the industrial relations stuff to tose that care - and go and join the BNE s/H base .

Don Esson

11th May 2006, 09:26

Lurker@5R says yes, its a shame somebody didn't remind the pilots about solidarity during the 1981 SP dispute

After all these years his memory is failing, or maybe he just wants to let reality interefere with his version of the "facts". Just to recap, the 1981 SP dispute was all about manning levels on the Tasman just after the SP was introduced. That was when some of those nice guys in the FAAA (an all male outfit in those dark days)threatened Flight Hostesses,and their property,who were then in another union and did not join the fray. The SP's did not operate LA services for another couple of years as they were flat out on Wellington services.

lurker@R5

11th May 2006, 11:10

Donny -
I stand corrected re Tasmans & SP ...a bit of dementia creeping in - however the principle remains the same -
when the hot heads running the FAAA called for their ridiculous strike action for Xmas 2005 -did we hear anything from the Pilots' Union ? -any messages of support & solidarity?? not a peep - the drivers up front would have let us burn & no doubt would have willingly thrown on the new aprons.

capt.cynical

11th May 2006, 11:31

Lurker & Don,
Re. The SP, not only was the dispute about manning levels.It was also about horizontal crew rest for cabin crew. The company did not want to provide any.If it was not for the stand taken then we may not have achieved that basic condition. (and dare I say a lot of other carriers CC as well)
:{

Don Esson

11th May 2006, 11:38

Lurker @5R says did we hear anything from the Pilots' Union ? -any messages of support & solidarity??

Why should anyone support the AFAA? When the FA's struck over the use of staff labour in the 1980's, they successfully gained the support of all of Qantas's blue collar unions as well as the TWU refuellers throughout the country. The company would have been crippled but for the support of pilots and its salaried staff, LAME's and Professional Engineers. A couple of days after you were threatened with being tosssed on to the streets all over the world for not working in accordance with your terms and conditions, your legs went to jelly and you demonstrated your strenth, determination and solidarity by resuming work without conditions. The poor buggers you encouraged to lend their support remained on strike for several weeks after your return. With a gutless record like that, why would you expect any union support, even if it is 20 years down the road? Unlike you, the bruvvers have very long memories. Don't ever forget that!

lurker@R5

11th May 2006, 19:39

crossbleed asks where the hostility stems from between cabin & tech crew - 1981 is a good starting point - if the pilots went on strike -even though most L/H fas could fly a 747 -(its not that hard fellas -we've been watching over your shoulders for years) -we wouldn't do it on principle .
( plus I've NEVER met a cabin crew member who drinks black tea with lemon.)

crew-use-only

11th May 2006, 21:44

Don Esson

12th May 2006, 00:05

Well, there are experts with poor memories. For those in the self-admitted early stages of dementia, there were two disputes involving the meal chuckers and the SP's. The first was about manning levels (in Business Class?) not long after the SP was introduced. The second - some time after the first - was over crew rest issues and rest times on YSSY-KLAX non-stops. If my memory serves me right, the second dispute did not involve a walk out but things got pretty willing between the union and Qantas. :ugh:

TineeTim

12th May 2006, 05:54

Nahh lurker... the animosity is there because they are so arrogant and condescending! and lets not forget the biggest tight@rses you will ever come across.
Look at what happens when we get a new f/a, it only takes them about 3 or 4 trips and then they realise what they are like.
In all my years its been quite funny to hear the young girls make statements as "they are so nice" then by the end of the trip, there is just sheer contempt for them!
And who's fault is it? its called personality trait!
Why is it then that about every second pilot is married to a hostie? Actually, strike that. Once they marry a pilot, they generally become an ex-hostie quite quickly. Funny that. Seems a fat wallet and stable income make up for the 'personality traits'. :E

The_Cutest_of_Borg

12th May 2006, 06:34

I met a girl once who was waiting to hear if she was going to be accepted as QF Cabin Crew. We had met on a cruise and she knew I was a pilot also with aspirations to join QF.

After the cruise we kept in touch and sure enough she was accepted. Two months later myself and another QF wannabe paid a visit to see how her initial course was going. She was two weeks into it. She was keen and loving it.

Eventually we mentioned that our applications were progressing and suddenly she stopped, had a moments thought and said, "Oh, but that means you'll be tech crew... oh, I have heard some of them are ok." She hadn't even flown at this stage.

We didn't hear from her again till two years later when my mate flew with her and she looked straight through him, even after he reminded her of who he was.

Please don't tell me that the indoctrination doesn't start on Day 1.

It is sad and unnecessary. Those CC who perpetuate attitudes from a dispute 25 years ago are as bad as the "Tech Crew" who act arrogantly towards you.

People should grow up.

P.S. The Tech Crew moniker comes from the fact that Flight engineers can still form part of a flight deck crew. I would be happy with a single Crew designation but I suspect smaller minds will rule the day.

Jimothy

12th May 2006, 06:50

Have you lot ever wondered why you were kicked off the Cabin Crew Forum?

cartexchange

12th May 2006, 07:07

cutes of the Borg.

I have to agree with most of what you say, It would be great if we were all thought of as one and in general you have to admit that we all get along fairly well.
When I started flying I had heard of some stories and I listened to crew tell the yarns, but It wasn't until my first "sour" experience (1 Month approx) into flying that I saw some appalling behaviour from the flight deck, and since then the occurrence of bad behaviour from the flight deck continues.( on a regular basis) and that is usually from the newbies not the old ones!

Still I try and judge each pilot on their own behaviour, jeez its hard sometimes.
and finally TineeTim do you realise what you have stated, have a good read of your post! I Will clarify it for you! ARE you happy that someone wants to be with you because of the size of your wallett...huh

TineeTim

12th May 2006, 09:44

ARE you happy that someone wants to be with you because of the size of your wallett...huh No, I wouldn't be. And I'm not married to a hostie.;)

The_Cutest_of_Borg

12th May 2006, 12:08

Yeah Cartex, I would never say that Tech Crew are blameless. I myself witnessed some appalling behaviour early on in the piece; so bad that I felt compelled to go behind the Captains back and try to apologise, useless though that was.

I don't know why people prefer to continue with negative stereotypes of people in our various jobs. Part of the problem is a lack of empathy for the difficulties of each role.

I could never be a flight attendant because I would have been sacked for assaulting idiot passengers a dozen times over by now. I genuinely admire a person who, for example, can take undeserved abuse off a customer and maintain a facade of calm professionalism, because I couldn't do it.

Similarly, I perceive a general lack of awareness in cabin crew of what a pilots true role is. The picture you get serving someone on a flight-deck during cruise can be only 5% of the story.

One day I hope the BS will cease, but I remain pessimistic....:(

Wed Webbing Woop

12th May 2006, 13:06

Can we vector this forum to Cabin Crew related discussions as the thread says-------so all Tech Crew .............V-1 and ROTATE !
Now down to business.
The Glass Menagerie on QCC/1 looks more like the old days with more and more cabin crew filling the PDM/...oooppps "Team Manager" slots.
I'm on my third manager in 2 years. This whole exercise of "engagement" is one of total futility-when as soon as you manage to string a few sentences together with them-they are either "punted" or they bolt.
Also, just heard from a CSM that the cabin Crew Managers Aquarium is in total disarray with the arrival of the Terminator, JJ and some dude from short haul ????
Now it seems that the " ex perth manager" has had enough of the lies, deceit and crap he has to dish out on a daily bases. He will leave a huge hole in the Aquarium as he is the ONLY one who has any idea of what is going on -on board.
Now, who is the next one to fill the breach. Bring back 1-800 BROSE ....I hear he's looking for a new gig??????
www

cartexchange

12th May 2006, 13:45

hmmm the terminator will cause havoc in there!
As much as I detested the line managers and the rorts, at least they had a vague idea and they sort of understood our jobs.
I cant believe I said that!
Just heard through the grapevine that A CSM has replaced the terminator as one of the CSS co ordinators, on the positive this is actually a good bloke.

radiation junkie

12th May 2006, 14:46

The "sociopath" will cause disruption where ever he goes, as he has no personality, and no one he works with or around, likes him. Sad really...
Apparently the FAAA have a file on him that keeps getting added to every few days, but can't seem to "wake up" management to how harmfull he really is, both to Qantas and Crew.

lurker@R5

12th May 2006, 18:55

Wed Webbing Woop
no matter what dastardly deeds those "Destroyers of Shareholder Value" (aka Qantas Senior Management) do to us in the near future -can I just put on record that your persistent & dogged performance management of those blow ins - "the Visitors" is to be admired.
I am nominating you for a pprune EXCEL award for putting the true meaning into KPIs. Keep the blow torch on them son! We shall overcome!

(ps -when will someone tell the techies that they are a mere extension of the Machine?)

Wed Webbing Woop

12th May 2006, 22:51

Thanks for the feedback Lurker.
Its a sad indictment on this company that the first time someone feels that its appropriate to nominate me for an EXCEL award is for "****e canning " the Red Rat and there bunch of incompetent/impotent Visitors.!!
The reason why I have been on this crusade is that I still have the paper work from Kylie announcing the new CREW CONNECT initiative. If you still have a copy of it-take the time to read it-its the best laugh you'll have all year!!!!...........particularly in light of the what the numbskulls( read Visitors) have done over the last 2 years, ie ZIP, ZILCH, DIIDLEE SQUAT....all in the name of crew connect.
Thats why I'm now renaming them as the P-76 team. great fanfare, great promises /expectations...............then what gets rolled out is CRAP, then recalls, back flips, relaunches blah blah blah.
The moment of truth will be when the Engagement scores come out.
I'm predicting 8% Engagement. Thats when the Black Widow will wield the axe and chop the P-76 up to make Coke Cans.
Then, we can hopefully get back to the model that works-Flying people -managing flying people.
Agree, we do not want to return to the dark days of the Line Controller rorting. BUT , there must be a better way of ensuring we get people in the Glass that UNDERSTAND what its is we do and UNDERSTAND what its like to deal with 400 punters and be away and the rigours of jet lag etc.etc.
I genuinely think QF is a good airline, BUT it could be a great Airline IF we had a Management team that were driven by looking after their people NOT driven by their F---K-'N KPI's.
www

OCCR

12th May 2006, 23:55

I agree with you WWW
The first idiot to get the chop should be SH in the operations propaganda and control unit!
She has done more to disengage the crew than anyone else combined, she is even more lethal than that sociopath terminator.
Get rid of her and that hideous computer system she has implemented and we are on our way to recovery!
Have a think what affects us more, the rantings of a visitor or our roster quality!
The terminator is a pussycat compared to her, just remember the PER crew rest seats, IT WAS HER IDEA!
:ugh:

lowerlobe

13th May 2006, 04:56

What is happening to DH from Perth?

By the way,I like the P-76 analogy....very accurate

Wed Webbing Woop

13th May 2006, 07:46

'Lobe......the word is that he was offered a pozzie in some place called "organisational development" ??????
Obviously, he was smart enough to take it.
What a choice.....-continue working with the Kiwi Sociopath in a rancid fish tank OR with the intelligencia in QCA.
Who are all the Visitors going to consult now when the ****e is hitting the rotor blade?
He's going to be missed.
...................alas the P-76 is blowing blue smoke, the wheels are starting to wobble and the transmission is stuck in reverse!!!!!!!
ZOOM ,ZOOM, ZOOM.......................................not!
www

Woomera

13th May 2006, 09:58

lurker@R5

13th May 2006, 18:47

Woomera
I agree whole -heartedly with your sentiments - however can we all just be careful about stereo-typing each other -
to insinuate that all cabin crew carry hand bags only gives currency to the very strong belief amonst f/as that ALL pilots wear Ruben F. Scarf slacks and Hush Puppy shoes.

Wed Webbing Woop

13th May 2006, 23:10

Good Morning Ladies & Gentlemen,
Firstly Happy Mothers Day for all our mums out there in cyber space.
I have not been feeling too chipper lately , and you know what - a really caring Cabin Crew Team Manager gave me a call to make sure that I was OK and that I was taking my medicine. Isn't it wonderful now ...how big organisations like Qantas really care for their people. My friends tell me that I am so lucky to have such a nice Manager-it really makes a difference to your well being.
Oh Gee- I was just looking out of the window then and a tiny sparrow did a little poopie on my window sill. Golly , I'll have to clean it off later.
Anyway , I'm off to Mass now then I'll visit mumsy on the way home.
I need to do my wrist strengthening exercises later because as Tea & Coffee professionals you can never be too sure when the next dose of RSI comes your way.
Then , I'll need to give my P-76 a bit of a polish-this time using my left hand. Gee wizz-what a car. My buddies give me a tough time over it-BUT really...... who cares what others think ??
So, I'll see you all later.
Enjoy your day.
PS: I've just re read my post. I'm really sorry if I offended any one with using the "poopie" word. Don't worry-I'll mention it to Father O'Reilly during Confession today.
www

radiation junkie

13th May 2006, 23:37

Be careful polishing the P-76, the paint is very thin. You may end up polishing whatever shine is left, right off !
PS: Happy Mothers Day to all the "Flying Mothers" out there !

frank foxworth

13th May 2006, 23:47

http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic.php?u=4887xNR1C&i=867844

capt.cynical

13th May 2006, 23:53

Isn't that the Hosties Car Park.:D

capt.cynical

13th May 2006, 23:55

Hears a SIREN approaching. :ooh:

frank foxworth

14th May 2006, 00:20

Woomera ,I don't get the threat to cut this thread . What exactly is wrong with expressions of free speech that are neither offensive or harmful?
There aren't too many places other than the internet were it this is practised and self censorship ,as practised by all posters on this thread appears to me to be working brilliantly.
Obvious deterioration into a "bitchin' session " is viewed very seriously by the moderators but I worry about where exactly that point is going to be reached ( we are obviously close) and we are yet again uncerimoniously dumped , suitably chastised of course, to darker and more distant locations of Prrune.
Anyway keep up the good work boys 'n girls , I am enjoying your work immensely evn if others aren't .Maybe enjoy it while it lasts ?The Pprune lads are obviously easily hurt and offended by your raucous behaviour.tsk tsk

max1

14th May 2006, 00:47

The difference between a rort and a perk is that a rort is something you're not involved. I'm ambivalent to rorts , but don't mind perks.:)

lowerlobe

14th May 2006, 01:42

Frank

Good pic and I don't even remember a station wagon version of the illustrious P-76.....

If you go to the AIRC web site and go to transcripts and search for any case involving QF ,you might be surprised as to how many cases have involved QF..is it the employees or is it the employer ...interesting ?

YesTAM

15th May 2006, 06:20

One of the things about being a Pilot is having a very well developed ego. The only other group of professionals I've seen that have egoistic tendencies to the same degree are Surgeons and perhaps some stage actors.

The reason is obvious. You are performing in real time and there are drastic consequences if you make a serious mistake. The difference again is that you are doing something in real time. It's different for a lawyer, businessman or engineer because you can usually sleep on your problems and have another go at a solution the next day. Not so Surgeons or Pilots. You have maybe one or two chances to get something right and you cannot postpone the decision or the action. This requires a very strong belief in one self - ie: Ego. Both professions self select people with this necessary trait.

Of course there is a downside to this as evidenced by:

(a) The endless "mines bigger than yours" contests on pprune and elsewhere.

(b) The "three wives" syndrome I know one surgeon who used to juggle two girlfriends and one wife and he was in his 50's. Great Surgeon too.

(c) The endless catiness about perks, rank, seniority and external forms of recognition. I suspect that half the banter about security screening is due to outrage at aircrew not being treated as "special" by screeners.

(d) The outrage expressed by some pilot/posters here about being impeded/ ordered/ requested/ instructed to do something by a screener/policeman/manager/cabin crew - ie a person who has not reached the exalted rank of pilot.

Is it therefore any wonder that cabin crew occasionally get miffed at being treated as second class citizens?

I would prefer to be a passenegr in an aircraft piloted by someone with an excellent high decibel ego. I just wish it was possible to turn the ego down after landing.

qcc2

15th May 2006, 07:24

that since we migrated to this forum a number of pilots issues/comments turn up here?
NOT OF INTEREST TO CABIN CREW:eek:
WOOMERA, i do agree with franks comments.we are at times showing our emotions in our comments, thats why we are good in dealing with people and people related issues. most of us are after all extraverts. :} no checklist to refer to (standard and non standard).
triadic post QF CC vs AOPA..a point of order pls! freedom of speech also carries the provisor if you dont like it dont read it and move on. and please dont remind me of AOPA. as a past member it has been nothing but driven by self interest and ego's for a long time.:=

The_Cutest_of_Borg

15th May 2006, 07:40

Well I guess when Cabin Crew refrain from posting on pilot issues, then pilots will do the same.

Plenty of CC having their .02 cents worth on pilot threads.

lowerlobe

15th May 2006, 07:54

I don't believe there is anything wrong with tech crew posting comments on issues about cabin crew as long as they are relevant.However,I think the point that qcc2 was trying to make is that this thread is supposed to be about cc issues not technical ones.I am not sure exactly where YesTam was going with the ego post because there are people the world over with inflated ego's but.......

If tech crew want to contribute on a topic that concerns cabin crew thats fine in fact if we want to work as a team it should happen more often.

cartexchange

15th May 2006, 08:05

AS lowerlobe said comments on issues that affect us are welcome and I'm sure that most etch crew welcome our comments.
I think what irritates us is when there is a hot issue going on and in steps a techie with insults, and that is what happened on this thread.
If you look back you will see that the first insult was slung by a pilot or a wannabe pilot and most CC wont sit there and take it.

I'm good at hurling an insult but only if provoked!

mrpaxing

15th May 2006, 10:45

it appears that qf pilots did win the allowance issue related to the lax bonaventura hotel.:ok: this of course will have a flow on effect for cabin crew. just to be seen what the faaa does about it.:D

lowerlobe

15th May 2006, 21:11

Mrpaxing,

Can you give or do you have any more details regarding the allowances case?

Are there any QF tech crew reading this who know anything about the allowances case both unions were working on ?

qcc2

15th May 2006, 22:56

only been told re allowance issue bonaventura hotel by a pilots union rep in transit. LL you need to contact the faaa and ask the Q.:D

lowerlobe

16th May 2006, 07:37

There is nothing on the tech crew site regarding the allowance issue and this is from the faaa site today....

"On the 11th May the FAAA and AIPA attended an initial conference with Qantas at the Australian Industrial Relations Commission in an attempt to resolve our differences over the 2005 Allowance Review. These discussions are ongoing and we will keep you informed of developments as they occur."

It would appear a tad premature that a solution to this issue has been found .....pity about that.

icanot

16th May 2006, 08:09

Well the decision regarding the seniority system has been finalised.
The ruling from the commission is on this link
Very interesting read.
http://www.airc.gov.au:8080/isysquery/irl4985/3/doc

lurker@R5

16th May 2006, 13:37

YesTAM
now I think I get it - you mean the surgeons carry out the TCBP* operation
prior to pilots commencing with Qantas??
(*Total Charisma By- Pass)

"Real Time" my arse -a bus driver has to make the same decisions as a pilot but he doesn't strut into the depot like he's a God . With Jet* Int. Dixon is going to pay the boys a bus driver's wage .

Hugh Jarse

16th May 2006, 22:23

"Real Time" my arse -a bus driver has to make the same decisions as a pilot but he doesn't strut into the depot like he's a God . With Jet* Int. Dixon is going to pay the boys a bus driver's wage .

EXACTLY! In your typical summer stormy weather, when the bus driver has a catastrophic engine failure, he deals with it the same: He pulls over to the side of the road, jumps on the 2-way back to the depot and talks to maintenance watch. They send out a replacement bus within the hour and the problem's solved.:ok:

Now lurker@R5, in reference to your well thought out statement above: You're now in the middle of the Pacific in your 744. Weather's ****ty everywhere. Damn, some of your alternates are unexpectedly below the landing minima. Same scenario as above. How would you deal with it? Please enlighten us.

I'll supply paper and pencil. Please show all workings, or marks will be deducted.

PW1830

16th May 2006, 22:59

Must be gee up lurker. I think you're just trying to get a free ride in the simulator. That can be arranged.
Brush up on your low level multiple engine failure procedures, some asymmetrics on take off and an engine out NDB approach. Rapid Depressurisation as well. Random faults as time permits. Brush on that QRH and Ops Manual, AIP. Jepp text and charts, CAO's etc for the quiz at briefing.Might even get a question from the AEPM but it's a minute part of the documentation with which we have to be familiar.
Happy to post the FT9 results here. Will rate you as a S/O to be fair as it is a S/O licence renewal.
Sim time is tight so it will be the middle of the night - we're expected to do most of our best work then anyway. Allow 5+ hours of your time so that you will get the maximum benefit. 4 hours in the sim plus briefing/debriefing time.
Msg me times you are available over the next month os so. I will need the names of you and your copilot to arrange clearance- single pilot through incapacitation is not in this exercise so you might need a friend - know a bus driver?
Passing means the pilot has a job until the next one in three months. Your job won't be on the line.
Look forward to hearing from you and a few ppruners may also be interested in the result.
-

Bad Adventures

17th May 2006, 00:52

PW1830 wank wank!
I bet you use those same lines to try and pick up women hey! Save it for your girls at ‘4 floors’.

PW1830

17th May 2006, 01:20

Lurker is looking for a co"pilot"
No confidence in your abilities?
Offer is still open.

lowerlobe

17th May 2006, 03:54

PW1830,

With all those system failures you must fly on the classic…

blueloo

17th May 2006, 04:13

lurker@R5, whilst I realise your post was a wind up, I have to say, if that really is your true thoughts on the matter, your lack of knowledge about aviation is mindblowingly scary.

unfortunately QFs fairly good safety record (touch wood it stays that way) is one of the reasons the pilots conditions are being attacked and the cabin crew by and large have no respect for the guys/girls who get them safely from A to B.

whilst I genuinely hope it never happens, we need a few prangs to prove that the job isnt even remotely like a bus drivers.

The_Cutest_of_Borg

17th May 2006, 05:46

Why do you guys even bother to reply to these wind-ups when all you have to do is ask Lurker how long he/she would remain in the job if QF sacked all of its pilots and replaced them with bus drivers?

Bus driving is good honourable work, but all you are doing however Lurker is showing your ignorance. Stop lurking down the back and ask some questions one day. Or would that get you ostracised by the oh so cool gang who similiarly have no idea what a pilot actually does?

B A Lert

17th May 2006, 07:35

Wot Jimothy said..... :ugh:
Have you lot ever wondered why you were kicked off the Cabin Crew Forum?
If your tenure in this forum is going to be the same bitching session it was in CC Forum, hang onto your hand bags 'cause you may well end up in another forum!
:mad:
Sunny Woomera

G'day Woomera. If you saw what some of these people send privately to those who dare have opposite views, you'd have them not only banned for life in a flash but hung, drawn and quartered. No names, no pack drill but the offenders (and the recipients of their vitriol) know who they are. An "anonymous outing" should bring an end to their nonsense but it's enough to say that being booted off the Cabin Crew forum didn't have much of a chastening effect. Some people just never learn.

Cheers.

cartexchange

17th May 2006, 07:38

Pilots..... Cabin Crew... blah blah blah, they do this and we do this!! blah blah it doesn't matter does it!
I have looked at the site that icanot posted .
Absolutely fascinating.
Would anyone in s/haul like to comment.
Actually galley hag I haven't heard from you in ages!
I simply cannot believe those 2 numbskull's thought they had a chance by raising the " I HAVE A CHILD" issue.. boo hoo.
I'm glad the selfish %%%%% got told to try their tricks somewhere else!
Ba Lert, your comments from what I can tell have not been welcomed in any forum Pilot or Cabin crew, I think its time you vanish. Your posts are more provocative than any one Else's on here and you're not even crew!

Don Esson

18th May 2006, 01:55

Your posts are more provocative.....

Since when has it been a crime to be provocative? :rolleyes: You obviously don't like the truth. :ugh:

RedTBar

18th May 2006, 05:02

BALert,

I have been reading some of your posts and yesterdays is no different.You offered no aviation topic for discussion ,cabin crew or otherwise.You had to apologise a week or so ago on another thread and yet again you criticize others for doing exactly what you do.

If you don’t want anyone to have a shot at you then don’t have a shot at them…simple

You ask the moderator to come to your defence like some child complaining to a school teacher about some other child in the playground.

If you want to discuss a topic then do that but you have to expect others to hand back what you dish out privately or on a post.

Instead of crying poor, tell us what you think about the latest round of job cuts ,this time with the white collar sector of QF and not directed at either tech crew , cabin crew ,ground staff at the airports or engineers for that matter .

Don Esson…friend of BA…so what you are saying is that if you are provocative you are honest and telling the truth………..An interesting and bizarre but flawed concept.

In this business the truth more often than not depends on your point of view and no two people seem to agree ...........................................................e xcept for yourself and BA that is

RedTBar

18th May 2006, 05:16

On another note the transcripts from the AIRC make for interesting reading regarding the seniority discrimination issue.Now that the seniority problem is behind us let's see what happens next....

B A Lert

18th May 2006, 05:36

I can't be bothered with this nonsense so I will move on from this thread and certainly be much happier for having done so. Yes RedTBar, I did say something out of line the other day and publicly apologised for having done so, and without having been asked to do so. But I have NEVER initiated abusive private messges to those with whom I disagreed.

To the 1000 or so ground staff about to get the chop, I have to say I feel very sorry for them and hope that each and every one of them has a soft landing. It is of little comfort to them to know that part of the reason for their redundancy is that there are some parts of the Qantas workforce still working under and enjoying conditions that have been in place since the days of the Super Connie. These people have not moved on. Most ground staff would literally kill for the return of some of the conditions still enjoyed by Flight and Cabin Crew.

As said above, 'good bye and good riddance'.