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View Full Version : The Green Vote or completly out of touch with the people?


MReyn24050
21st Apr 2006, 21:44
Am I the only one that thinks our so called political leaders have lost touch with reality?
David Cameron goes on a trip to the Artic region, private aircraft etc to see for himself the "damage being done to the environment" and is now proposing taxes to deal with carbon emissions. The present government are already applying levies on industry. This week Peugout are closing their plant in the UK because it is too expensive to run. In the papers earlier we are informed that more people are turning to BNP. Why cannot these politicians understand what is worrying the British Public? More people are pouring into this already overcrowded island every day.It is not the so called "global warming" that is the worrry. We have hose pipe bans in spring indicating insufficient water, land for housing now means more loss of the green belt areas, nearly all of our utility services are now owned by companies outside of the UK. Any taxes placed to reduce carbon emissions are just more stealth taxes. Any reduction made in this country will be wiped out by those emissions introduced by the developing countries. India and China will certainly not be thinking about saving the environment. They all want the same standard of living as we enjoy in the west. Sorry for the rant. I just feel this country has lost touch with reality

tilewood
21st Apr 2006, 22:05
MReyne24050:

Got it in one!! Start a political party based on that I'll vote for it!! :ok:

mtogw
22nd Apr 2006, 01:12
I don't think the country has lost touch with reality, its the self serving career politicians who have, don't even get me started on the Lothian question, or (dis) proportional representation, its the likes of Blair and his cronies who have done more to destroy and continue to destroy those vital institutions, since when has any prime minister had to use the parliament act more and why?
As for the BNP, they are labelled rascist and fascist, but their web site gets more hits than any other political party and people will turn to them and the UKIP in increasing numbers because of disillusionment and a lack of altenatives, we need the BNP and UKIP in westminster to bring the big three back to reality.
and maybe bring about a halt to the rot that has set in, they can talk about immigration as much as they want, but to me the main problem being overlooked is that we simply don't physically have enough room anymore when Mongolia is almost empty.
The thought of President Blair scares the cr*p out of me:yuk:

acbus1
22nd Apr 2006, 05:36
What's this?

Politicians are self serving, hypocritical, dishonest cretins who fail to target the important issues and don't achieve results?

Well, goodness me.

Dave Martin
22nd Apr 2006, 08:31
Puegot shutting their plant? Perhaps that is more a result of the hire'em-fire'em "flexible labour force" :yuk: concept we have here. The French would struggle to do the same to a factory on their home turf. Can't have it both ways. If we don't want our factories closed down, then maybe we should rethink the way we treat our workers?

I would challenge you that the British public aren't worried about global warming and environmental destruction, especially those who are thinking a generation ahead of their own. As a nation we are richer than ever.

As for overcrowded, I'm not sure that is true. Plenty of space available, just people don't want to live there. How can we be overcrowded when second home owning is proving to be one of the biggest problems for rural young?

Likewise, the people pouring in to the country? Well, without them earning minimum or below minimum wage, picking your fruit, caring for the sick or elderly, cleaning the streets, having not spent their formative years benefiting from state health and education, your living expenses would by a lot higher than they are now.

Things possibly have never been so good, its a matter of the glass half full or half empty.

Hosepipe bans? Poor planning by private providers and record low rainfalls. India and China? Well, don't they deserve to do the same as we have done? If we want them to change perhaps we should lead the way - they are only emulating our wasteful consumer lifestyles so its a bit rich for us to berate them when we have already reaped the benefits of doing what they are about to do.

MReyn24050
22nd Apr 2006, 08:47
, India and China? Well, don't they deserve to do the same as we have done? If we want them to change perhaps we should lead the way - they are only emulating our wasteful consumer lifestyles so its a bit rich for us to berate them when we have already reaped the benefits of doing what they are about to do.

I am not "berating" them of course they are entitled to have just as good a life style as we have in the west. Just tell me how taxing us in this country will halt the advance of global warming. "Global" means it is a global problem and that requires a global solution. The taxes placed at present by this goverment are mearly more stealth taxes.

rupert the bear
22nd Apr 2006, 09:02
Fascists always do well in times of economic downturn - keep your eye on the new Superpower China with their focus on export. UK has been naffed for an age, still living in the past..........sad to watch really:ouch:

Dave Martin
22nd Apr 2006, 10:29
The problem with the taxes is that they aren't well spent.

At the same time however, the rich list has grown unlike ever before. If the upper tax band was properly applied to those at the upper end of the bell curve (who can afford to pay more than aver before!) then the governments coffers might not need these stealth taxes.

Should be noted though, corporate wasteage is as bad as public wastage - there too are pork-barrel opportunities. The money you spend on a litre of petrol, insurance or other services is high not only because of taxes, but due to some of the lavish perks that corporate life allows. Adam Smith was as vocal a critic of this as he was the state.

Low Flier
22nd Apr 2006, 10:37
Brown on the price of oil:

Chancellor Gordon Brown called for increased oil production to put a cap on soaring prices.

Speaking in New York, where oil prices closed above $75 a barrel for the first time, Mr Brown said growing demand was driving the markets upwards.

Oil producers should respond to surging demand from Asian giants like China by putting more investment into production, he suggested.

"Asia now takes one-third of the world's oil, where at one point a few decades ago, it only took 10%," Mr Brown said.

"The demand pressures on oil are such that we need a long-term solution to this: better transparency, more production, more drilling, more investment - more petrochemical investment in particular.

"These are the means by which we can actually get more stability into the oil markets."

Brown on the environment:
In his BBC interview, Mr Brown echoed the message of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, who last month said governments had a "moral duty" to tackle climate change.

Mr Brown said: "If it is affecting both our habitat and environment and affecting those people who are dependent on that environment the most - and that is poor people in poor countries - then this has got to be looked at, not just as an economic issue but a social issue.

"And you could therefore say that it's got an ethical dimension as well."

He added: "There is personal and social responsibility here.

"We can as individuals make a difference in the way we behave and use the environment.

"But it's got to be matched by the measures that we take as a community as a whole. Voluntarism in itself will not be enough."

So, in just one day, he's calling on the oil producers to produce more oil so that the oil consumers can set fire to it, while he's also calling on the oil conumers not to call on the oil producers to produce more oil so that the oil consumers can set fire to it.

With two-faced hypocrisy like that, Citizen Brown is ready to step into the shoes of T BLiar.

rupert the bear
22nd Apr 2006, 10:38
Agreed but when you're paying 60c in the dollar you sing a new song................dontcha?

green granite
22nd Apr 2006, 11:41
How is he going to stop the sun from causing global warming then? :E :E :E

Dave Martin
22nd Apr 2006, 11:47
With two-faced hypocrisy like that, Citizen Brown is ready to step into the shoes of T BLiar.

I'm no fan of Bliar, but economically what Gordon says makes sense:

He is asking the producers to increase output (supply) and is asking us to curb our consumption (demand). The later is good for the environment and if the former can be made to occur, obviously at the oil companies expense (but hey, theyre making a fortune anyway) then the result is lower fuel prices and less environmental damage.

I just don't think he's actually committed to either though. But the theory is sound.

ORAC
22nd Apr 2006, 12:04
David Cameron is a cretin who has lost the Tories my vote for the first time in nearly 40 years.

MReyn24050
22nd Apr 2006, 13:11
David Cameron is a cretin who has lost the Tories my vote for the first time in nearly 40 years.

Totally agree, but what is the alternative? Certainly not New Labour or the Fluffy Liberals.

Dave Martin
22nd Apr 2006, 14:03
There's always BNP, ORAC?

Capn Notarious
22nd Apr 2006, 14:06
Cretinism n.kree-tin-izm, a condition of idiocy with physical deformity and degeneracy, found in mountain valleys especially in the Alps.

So here on this website that I enjoy. Would ORAC kindly explain why he writes of The leader of the Opposition?

ORAC
22nd Apr 2006, 14:09
A comment which reveals far more about you than I, DM :rolleyes:

I am also not a believer in PC or a pedant, so I don't need advice on the meaning of cretin. if you don't understand the common use of the word, that's your problem, not mine. Why do I write him off? I consider his views vacuous and his attempts to attract the Blair voters risible. Another lame leader shortly to lose an election and be replaced in due course.

frostbite
22nd Apr 2006, 14:52
Have to agree re Cameron - all he's done since his election has served to turn me off any possibility of voting for his lot.

Dave Martin
22nd Apr 2006, 16:16
ORAC,

But he is succeeding in attracting new voters for every one of you he turns away. And frankly, the tories of old were very much in the dark ages, in exactly the same way Labour was before Tony Bliar came to power.

It might not be the great leap forward (or backwards?) you want, but it is a step in the right direction.

Just maybe Cameron actually stands for what he says? Maybe it won't last, who knows, but least he takes issues such as the environment and the less well off a little more seriously than the vanguard establishment.

If it is those policies of his that you don't like then there may be few parties open to your vote other than the fringe.

ORAC
22nd Apr 2006, 16:37
But he is succeeding in attracting new voters for every one of you he turns away

Firstly, I have seen no poll that shows Cameron picking up any Labour voters. The latest polls showing the brief lift of 4-5% after his election to have disappeared.

Secondly, the recent rise in support for the BNP seems to have come from the ranks of the traditional Labour party working class supporters - as pointed out by Margaret Hodge.

tilewood
22nd Apr 2006, 18:41
Have to agree re Cameron - all he's done since his election has served to turn me off any possibility of voting for his lot.

Couldn't agree more frostbite can someone please tell me what
he, and therefore, the Tories now represent?

The local elections are about to take place in the UK, with all kinds of break down in the services provided by local government, and where is the
new leader of HM's Loyal Opposition? Faffing around on some glacier
in Norway, telling everyone who hasn't lost the will to live that the Conservatives are the new Greens!!

Well I am not so green that I will fall for that PR blather.

It's enough to make the BNP rub their hands. And whose fault is that?

MReyn24050
22nd Apr 2006, 19:23
Couldn't agree more frostbite can someone please tell me what
he, and therefore, the Tories now represent?
The local elections are about to take place in the UK, with all kinds of break down in the services provided by local government, and where is the
new leader of HM's Loyal Opposition? Faffing around on some glacier
in Norway, telling everyone who hasn't lost the will to live that the Conservatives are the new Greens!!
Well I am not so green that I will fall for that PR blather.
It's enough to make the BNP rub their hands. And whose fault is that?

I totally agree this twit Cameron is doing so much damage that not only will support for BNP come from the traditional members of the Labour party but will also come from the grey Tory members.