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JW411
20th Apr 2006, 16:09
And so it was that a 30 year-old lady who was found semi-conscious on the pavement in Scunthorpe having suffered a diabetic seizure was given an on-the-spot fixed penalty fine of £80 by a policeman who thought she was drunk.

This was despite the fact that the lady was already being helped by paramedics when he arrived and despite being told by the paramedics that she was a diabetic. She had already given them her insulin as proof.

The police even followed her into casualty at hospital where she was being stabilised whereupon two policemen began to discuss whether they should also charge her with wasting police time.

A Humberside Police spokesman said that all officers do a two-day first-aid training course but even with this training they are not qualified medics (!) and unfortunately can occasionally make mistakes. They have to make a judgement call.

I shall refrain from making comment.

brakedwell
20th Apr 2006, 17:12
If there had been a CCTV camera available the poor woman would have ended up with three point on her licence too!

radeng
21st Apr 2006, 12:00
I'm surprised bjcc isn't in here defending their actions......

BlueDiamond
21st Apr 2006, 12:08
How about telling everyone that the fine was revoked (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=383209&in_page_id=1770)
... or should we not let the facts get in the way of a good story?

under_exposed
21st Apr 2006, 12:21
Strange how it is only when a newspaper tory is about aviation that it's authenticity is questioned.

Flying Lawyer
21st Apr 2006, 12:49
The authenticity of the story doesn't appear to be in doubt.

As someone who works in the court system I'm naturally pleased to read the additional information, but it doesn't detract from the main thrust of the report which is that a police constable issued an £80 'on the spot' fine on a diabetic being treated by paramedics.

The police didn't back down.
Magistrates revoked the fine after she had been summonsed to court for refusing to pay: Lincolnshire magistrates have now revoked the fine, which had risen to £120 after Miss Read received a summons for non-payment.

G-CPTN
21st Apr 2006, 12:52
Jobsworths!

frostbite
21st Apr 2006, 13:01
Can the police be fined for wasting the Court's time?

No, wait, that's taxpayers money again.

Grainger
21st Apr 2006, 13:11
BD: the fine was revoked by the magistrates - the police have yet to back down or offer an apology.

How about an on-the-spot fine for the officers involved ?

Onan the Clumsy
21st Apr 2006, 13:12
a newspaper tory


:}
a characters

alwayzinit
21st Apr 2006, 13:18
How about telling everyone that the fine was revoked (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=383209&in_page_id=1770)
... or should we not let the facts get in the way of a good story?

Very sadly not only are bobbies looking younger these days but most (not all) seem to have been given a full common sense bypass and political indoctrination course before going out on to the streets.

This is 2nd hand, from my senior domestic management, a wee lad got a new bike for his birthday preezy and was desperate to show his mate who lived 1/4 -1/2 mile away. He rides bike to mates house, plays for a while(mums and dads each call with departure /arrival time to keep a wx eye out). Kid leaves to go home only to feel the NEED for a leek, bearing in mind this is deepest rural Britain no pavement etc, lad puts his new pride and joy down and proceeds to water the hedge. Whilst in mid flow a cop car complete with peach furry constables comes by. Cops stop, look, assess the situation and wait for it.... take said young boy into custody for......... peeing in public and indecent exposure and take to the "local" cop shop some miles away.

Meanwhile kid's parents are doing their nuts with worry as kid has not turned up at home.

Only when the parents ring the cops to report their missing kid do the cops say that they have him!

The conclusion is even madder ....... cops are STILL TRYING TO GET KID PUT ON THE SEX OFFENDERS REGISTER.

Will someone please stick a pin in me so I can wake up from this horrible nightmare that is the new Britain!:mad:

Doors to Automatic
21st Apr 2006, 13:25
The police officers responsible should be fired on the spot and lose their pensions. This is a disgrace.

I suppose we shouldn't expect much else from the force directly responsible for the murders of two innocent schoolgirls through their blatent incompetence.

Devlin Carnet
21st Apr 2006, 13:37
Does give you a feeling of betrayal though... these people are meant to be protecting the law obeying members of the public.
Instead they are creating a feeling of mistrust and apprehension..IMHO

Unwell_Raptor
21st Apr 2006, 15:13
Alwayzinit;

I'm afraid that story about the peeing lad doesn't stack up. For one thing the offence of indecent exposure (which, by the way, had to include intent to insult a female) was abolished several years ago, and for another there are police procedures that have to be followed when a young person is taken into custody. I am not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had no power of arrest either.

Blair is obsessed with what he calls 'summary' justice, which means giving every Tom Dick and Harry the power to dish out penalties. The result is bound to be injustice.

airship
21st Apr 2006, 15:16
Send the coppers concerned to Iraq! Their type would prolly go down very well thereabouts...?! :E

yintsinmerite
21st Apr 2006, 16:08
Agreed, the story of the boy and the bike just doesnt seem to stack up unless there really are elements of the police force who are hell bent on self destruction. The diabetic story however, whether the fine was revoked or not, is disgusting and the statement from the police

(A Humberside Police spokesman said that all officers do a two-day first-aid training course but even with this training they are not qualified medics (!) and unfortunately can occasionally make mistakes. They have to make a judgement call.

is worse. I would like to know if this was the full statement because the word 'sorry' doesnt appear anywhere. Still, they didn't charge her with wasting police time; maybe they were too busy trying to work out if the paramedics could be charged with possession of drugs and syringes etc.

G-CPTN
21st Apr 2006, 16:35
Although I cannot confirm the 'boy' story, I have heard that urinating in a public place CAN result in joining the sex register. Also, 'prisoners' (well, OK, accused) who accept a Police Caution must agree their guilt, and can therefore be nominated for the (automatic) inclusion onto said register.

Unwell_Raptor
21st Apr 2006, 16:49
I have heard that urinating in a public place CAN result in joining the sex register.

I am pretty sure that you have heard wrong. You can certainly be done for peeing in public (some PCs will dish out an £80 ticket, especially if you get mouthy with them) but I don't think there is any connection to a sex offence.

jammydonut
21st Apr 2006, 17:11
I thought it was legal to piss on the offside wheel of a vehicle.....old law relating to horse drawn carts....:confused:

G-CPTN
21st Apr 2006, 17:20
Whilst it is not an offence to urinate in a public place - unless the individual is drunk or disorderly - a few local authorities (eg Westminster) have managed to introduce local by-laws making such behaviour an offence. However, recent cases where local authorities have prosecuted offenders have frequently failed because the defen¬dants have claimed successfully that there was no public toilet pro-vision at the time.

CBA_caption
21st Apr 2006, 17:27
Jammy,

IIRC thats only for london cabbies, throw back to Hansomb (sp?) cabs and long hours.

I probably should look at snopes though...

CBA

tony draper
21st Apr 2006, 17:28
Ha! lucky she wasn't in China, the Bobby wudda prolly had one of her Kidneys.
:rolleyes:

Onan the Clumsy
21st Apr 2006, 18:53
I have heard that urinating in a public place CAN result in joining the sex register.

...or in my case, the Guinness Book of Records :cool:

tony draper
21st Apr 2006, 19:01
Documentry on tother night about police in Manchester town center,they were having a blitz on peeps pissing in the street, 80 quid on the spot fine, thing is, we have all been caught short on some occasion and nipped up a back lane or behind a bush forra wiz,now they don't even bother doing that, they just lob it out where they stand and let forth.
I have seen young lassies on the corner just squat down and do right there,they don't care a ****
I tells yer the human race is devolving.
:uhoh:

jayteeto
21st Apr 2006, 20:15
Normally I defend police on prune, but if someone is semi-concious, you dont need to be a doctor to know that you should call an ambo. Not good PR this time.....

Flying Lawyer
21st Apr 2006, 20:24
yintsinmerite
I have no doubt that if the police statement had contained an apology it would have been included in the report.
At least the hint that the constable's 'judgment call' may not have been the most reasonable or intelligent in the history of policing is preferable to attempts to justify it with 'very difficult job, nobody who wasn't there can judge' etc etc

jayteeto
"you dont need to be a doctor to know that you should call an ambo"
It's worse than that.
The lady was semi-conscious and already being treated by paramedics when the police arrived and issued the fine! :rolleyes:

The link is worth reading: here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=383209&in_page_id=1770)

Bahn-Jeaux
21st Apr 2006, 20:31
Good old Blunderside C**tstabulary.
Case in magistrates court today where they staked out a gate on Cleethorpes seafront after someone disgruntled at the local councils decision to deny access to the slipways on the beach, started cutting off the locks.
Three 12 hour stakeouts involving 3 PCs, a Police helicopter and lifeboat were used to apprehend the villain for £12 of damage.
During the arrest when the suspect was suddenly pounced upon, a pepper spray was used despite no resistance being offered.
Instills confidence in our finest especially when there is a long running complaint being aired in the local paper that no-one ever answers calls and most times an officer never bothers to attend.

frostbite
21st Apr 2006, 21:00
Some of them deserve to be charged with 'Impersonating a police officer'.

alwayzinit
21st Apr 2006, 21:04
Alwayzinit;

I'm afraid that story about the peeing lad doesn't stack up. For one thing the offence of indecent exposure (which, by the way, had to include intent to insult a female) was abolished several years ago, and for another there are police procedures that have to be followed when a young person is taken into custody. I am not a lawyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had no power of arrest either.

Blair is obsessed with what he calls 'summary' justice, which means giving every Tom Dick and Harry the power to dish out penalties. The result is bound to be injustice.

You are absolutly right about the police sops and I have been corrected by my missus.. the lad was given a police caution.. gods truth and all that.

Sounds mad but sadly true.

alwayzinit
21st Apr 2006, 21:14
PS

From my own experience....

Called 999 at 0200 to report vandals/yuffs trying to break into the village school next door.

No response from feds ala Hollywood and the Bill. So let out my dogs, 4x large black labs, after much woofing and general peeing on everything, yuffs have courage bypass and go home to bed...... 3 days later the "local" bobby rings me to ask about the emergency call we made:* and is everthing ok now¬!!!!

The young man/boy was at a loss as to my less than civil tone,bless him.:mad:

bjcc
21st Apr 2006, 21:30
Assuming the press report is correct, then had the ambulance crew not been treating her, I could understand it.

Drunks and diabetics often display the same symptoms. It can be difficult to tell the difference. There are a number of diabetics who have been arrested for being drunk and incapable, and only later has it been discovered they are in fact ill, not drunk. Sadly, there are also a number that have died as a result. You may also be suprised a few hospitals have been caught out with the same problem.

Things must have changed, it was standard to have a look for signs of being a diabetic when I were a,lad, medicalert tags, cards etc. sugar packets in pockets, not to mention the medication.

However, going back to the press report, the ambulance crew were there, and apparently told the officers what the problem was, and they still issued a ticket???

It does make me wonder what planet they were on!

As regards the tale of the lad. You didn't mention his age. Is it possible he was taken to the police station for reasons of his welfare, rather than letting him ride round country lanes with no pavement?

Further to UR's point on indecent exposure, the accused would also have to have an errection too. So even if the offence did still exist, if he was peeing it would follow he wasn't committing that offence.

There used to be an offence of drunk & indecent apprently, and that used to be used for peeing drunks. It was reppealed before I joined the police though. Looking at the other side of it, would people on here approve of some one peeing on your garden, wall or doorway? I doubt it. At one of the stations I worked at, the local community were constantly complaining about it around some of the pubs and clubs.

ShyTorque
21st Apr 2006, 22:35
"As regards the tale of the lad. You didn't mention his age. Is it possible he was taken to the police station for reasons of his welfare, rather than letting him ride round country lanes with no pavement?"

Come on now bjcc! If that were the concern, surely escorting the lad to his home would have been more appropriate. And if so, why a police caution?

tony draper
21st Apr 2006, 22:38
What ever happened to the "Making a Improper Suggestion" charge?, the local rag used to be full of such cases,we usta read em to see if it was anybody we knew,hee hee
"Your honour,when the bus conductress leaned over to collect the accused's fare,he put his hand on her leg and made a improper suggestion"
:rolleyes:
Bus Conductresses seemed particularly prone to having Improper Suggestions whispered in their ears.