B206L3 Accident in PNG

[brame]

I hear that a Bell 206L3 was written off yesterday afternoon @ 1740 on approach to the Moran 5/7 helipad at Moro PNG.

Total of 7 pob. 3 dead and 2 medevaced out.

Anyone got any details?

[sling load]

Aircraft was P2-HCE 206L3, pilot was in a Cairns hospital. No other news as yet

[LongLine]

I hear that a Bell 206L3 was written off yesterday afternoon @ 1740 on approach to the Moran 5/7 helipad at Moro PNG.
Total of 7 pob. 3 dead and 2 medevaced out.
Anyone got any details?
Yes a B206L3 did crash yesterday on the NW Moran 5/7 The cause is not confirmed yet, three people are confirmed dead and the pilot was medivaced out last night, not shore of his condition and where to at this time. The Machine is a total write off and it is a wonder that anyone got out at all, all the best wishes of hope to him and his family.

[NotHomeMuch]

Not good news at all. Condolences to families who lost loved ones and a speedy recovery to those injured.

RIP the Purple Passion wagon with smashed banan

[onya]

Which company operated the flight? :ugh:

[inmate]

My sincere condolances to all the families. We will be thinking of them.

For the last poster the helicopter was operated by Hevilift.

Any word on who the pilot was?

[jackwoelfel]

God Bless to those who've lost and are suffering and wishes for a speedy recovery for the injured. I'm a 206 guy and would appreciate safety details for lessons learned.
Thanks

[Chairmanofthebored]

The pilot is in serious condition in Cairns hospital. I have been told that the area was socked in with cloud and the pilot appeared to be following the road. The guys in Moro speculate that he contacted a tree.
7 pax in a Longranger? My calc's indicate that it had to be overloaded comsidering that area is around 5000ft AMSL.
Saw the CAA guys getting onto the Dash in Moresby yesterday so they will be on the ground today.

[inmate]

Sir,
I believe that your comments and speculation are way out of line at this time.
Your knowledge of both the facts and the aircraft limitations are rudementory at best and prehapes you should leave the factfinding to those more qualified.
Lean your thoughts to the families they deserve better.
I hope you fly safe,so others will not speculate your fate.

[Hughesy]

Does anybody know who was involved?
I have a couple of friends over there.
Best of luck to survivors, condolences to the victims friends and family.

Hughesy

[gulliBell]

Hevilift Ltd have published a media release about the P2-HCE accident, but it doesn't add much to what is known in the public domain (other than the name of the pilot).
Here's a link to what's appeared in the paper:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Three-dead-in-PNG-helicopter-crash/2006/04/21/1145344270864.html

[Chairmanofthebored]

OK, since I apparently know very little about the situation, here are the facts for everyone else to make their own decision.

Landing site is at 5500ft AMSL
20 deg C or ISA + 16
Fog/cloud on the trees, so very little wind. Rescue aircraft could not get to the site.
7 welders on board - say averaging 200lbs each plus a 200lb pilot?
A/C weights for L3's about 2450lbs averaged.
Guess at about 200 to 300lbs of fuel.

I come to about 4000+ lbs without considering misc. bags, tools, books, survival equip. etc.

Gross internal = 4150lb

So what do you think? Can you stop the aircraft and hover given those conditions?

Pure speculation of course, he could've had an engine failure for all we know.

[NotHomeMuch]

A conclussion is being jumped to here. The initial thread said POB 7, which to means the usual 6 pax and the pilot. The press were probably told that there were 7 pob which they read to be 7 pax and then added the pilot, so methinks Chairmanofthebored is adding to the confussion with his assumption of there being 8 on board. Let's also be realistic and not assume that everybody is 200lbs as many mationals in PNG weigh less than 170lbs. Also, Oilsearch, with it's Chevron way of operating, would never allow there to be more pax than seats, it's a simple as that so let's quit that route.

The weather probably played a huge part in this as well as the fact that that particular machine (I have flown it) did not have an AH and although the pilot concerned should not have been in a position where he would have been inadvertent IMC, this piece of equipment may have helped. But, on the other hand, Hevi Lift, being a day VFR operation would not need this so they cannot be blamed for lack of equipment. Any number of reasons could have caused this, from mechanical failure to pushing the weather limits. As most of us are not qualified in the art of accident investigation we should leave it up to those that are, especially as most conclussions being drawn here are purely speculative at the minute.

[Granny]

Who was the Pilot? and how is he?

[Chairmanofthebored]

My apologies for the confusion. I mistyped. Only 6 pax and the pilot of course.
Pax were loaded with their equipment and having flown these guys before, a 200lb estimate is not excessive. I know the pilot too, but I am hesitant to release his name and uncertain of his condition today. Accidents happen, no blame appropriated because for all that is known he may still have had an engine failure. The question remains: would you take on this load into these conditions?
Hevilift operations are suspended in the Moro area and does anyone have an idea of when they will recommence?

[gulliBell]

another link to the Hevilift accident near Moro:

http://www.thenational.com.pg/042406/nation2.htm

[hughjarse]

"would you take on this load into these conditions"
What a squeezer you are. How many times do you have to be told. Get the facts before you give people the ****s. You do not know exactly what the aircraft payload was when it took off or when it crashed, you also don't know exactly what the pilot was experiencing in the cockpit at the time with regards to weather or the aircraft. Maybe he was overloaded, but maybe not, probably not. We will wait to hear the facts when the dust settles.
You also mentioned you know the pilot and are unsure of his condition and hesitant to release his name, well how important you must be, your parents must be proud of you.
If you are in fact a pilot and have flown in PNG as you mentioned, I doubt whether you were much good and I also doubt whether you lasted too long, BUT THATS JUST SPECULATION. I am guessing the company you worked for sorted you out pretty quickly. I have also flown those areas for sometime and I have seen a lot of good pilots killed and injured. And when something goes wrong the experienced pilots don't speculate on what went wrong and suggest things like overloading, instead they wait until the facts come out and learn from them, at this time good pilots should quietly be glad that they are not in the same predicament, and will be thinking about the families and mates of those left behind.
Just remember this... Never say never...

[rivnut]

hugharse,

Wow! what a temper you have:ouch:

[ayaarr]

Rivnut can you blame him ?
I'm sure the chairman means no harm but he seems ignorant with comments in his post
I think he (HJ) speaks for the majority of us who have "been there"

[cptjim]

My condolences to the families and friends of those involved.

R.I.P. :(

[CBAUS]

For those of you interested,
Bruce Has been transferred from the hospital in cairns to one in melbourne.
At this stage his condition is serious, but stable, and he is in an induced coma.
For more information please reply to this message.

Thanking you all
CBAUS

[ayaarr]

pass on to him there's a lot of us around wishing him a speedy recovery

[paul abersynth]

Have any more facts come to light regarding this accident? Were Hevi Lift A/C operations suspended or not? Any update on the pilot's condition?

PA

[gulliBell]

I am to understand from PNG sources that the investigation into the accident won't be finalized until after the pilot can be interviewed by the investigators. Unfortunately however the pilots current medical condition precludes any interview for the time being, although improvements in his condition are anticipated.

[flapnfeather]

Terrible for all involved......

Slightly off topic (and not intended to be inflammatory) but I was talking to a senior guy who has spent many years in that part of the world. He mentioned four critical factors (that we are all no doubt aware of) that MUST be considered in remote area operations. These things have kept him alive for over 15 years in PNG.

1 - Light....when will it run out, will you reach your destination??
2 - Fuel.....how much have you got, how much will you need.
3 - Weather..... LOOK, what is it doing now, what is it doing later, when will you turn around??
4 - Limitations....flight manuals are like a PICs bible....read it...believe it

If any two of these are working against you, DO NOT GO.

As mentioned many of you are aware of this already. It is great advice for low time pilots. The toughest part is telling the client no.

[Screwed™]

If any two of these are working against you, DO NOT GO.:confused:
,,,ppfft, I"ll work on any one of these against me thanks.

[Hidden Agenda]

Flapnfeather, I don’t disagree with the principle you put forward.

However, as I recall life in PNG the first two were sacred…the others were open to negotiation. If it gets dark you land and wait until the morning. I always carried a sleeping bag, water and “anti-mossie spray”. And never go past a gas station without topping up.

The weather was very much ‘what you see is what you get’, forecasts were a luxury. Maybe nowadays with the Internet and satellite weather this has changed but I doubt whether those pics will show if the Tari or Como gap is open or closed.

Flight manuals...well I suppose we had one of those somewhere; I mean we had to have a quick read of it every six months or so before a base check.

The best attribute to have was lots of “native cunning”!

I suspect that none of the above will have had much to do with the sad accident that is the subject of the thread. To those that survived all the best for a speedy recovery, to the family and friends of those that didn’t, you are in my thoughts.

HA

[TimTooWindy]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-25/victorian-pilot-sues-hevilift-aviation-company-for-$10-million/11996176

[gulliBell]

The accident was discussed extensively here at the time. Hopefully Hevilift will settle out of court with the pilot and he can move on.

[malabo]

Australian tort laws giving the Americans a run for their money. Hope the pilot can move on, regardless of the lawsuit outcome. Hevilift is one of the better players in PNG.

[gulliBell]

Did Hevilift take stock of the judgement and fit all of their helicopters with an instrument cluster and provide IIMC training to all their VFR pilots?

[rottenjohn]

Terrible for all involved......

Slightly off topic (and not intended to be inflammatory) but I was talking to a senior guy who has spent many years in that part of the world. He mentioned four critical factors (that we are all no doubt aware of) that MUST be considered in remote area operations. These things have kept him alive for over 15 years in PNG.

1 - Light....when will it run out, will you reach your destination??
2 - Fuel.....how much have you got, how much will you need.
3 - Weather..... LOOK, what is it doing now, what is it doing later, when will you turn around??
4 - Limitations....flight manuals are like a PICs bible....read it...believe it

If any two of these are working against you, DO NOT GO.

As mentioned many of you are aware of this already. It is great advice for low time pilots. The toughest part is telling the client no.

Any two? Who the hell came up with a risk analysis like that? I’d class that as extremely poor advice for low time pilots.

[gulliBell]

Exactly. If you're out of fuel you're out of options. If you're out of light then camping in the bush is your last option. etc.

[Mumbai Merlin]

Justice Henry in the Supreme Court, Cairns, has awarded a helicopter pilot $5.65 mill for injury and and cost associated with a helicopter accident back in 2006.
Hevilift PNG to pay up by the 24th April.

[Melbjorn]

Luckily not 14 years for compensation to be paid.

[tail wheel]

You don't mention the incident but I suspect the award will be an insurance liability, not operator liability?

[chimbu warrior]

This was the accident that left BT in a wheelchair?

[Mumbai Merlin]

Yes, it's the BT Jet Ranger accident...
The Court transcript is available for download, I can't get the PDF to attach to the thread.

[Capt Fathom]

Here is the link:

https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/case-download/id/343967

[gulliBell]

The costs hearing is on 24 April 2020. That will also be a big number (in addition to the damages awarded).

[Bend alot]

Justice Henry in the Supreme Court, Cairns, has awarded a helicopter pilot $5.65 mill for injury and and cost associated with a helicopter accident back in 2006.
Hevilift PNG to pay up by the 24th April.
Know nothing about this incident, but Justice Henery does not see what most see. His interpretation on evidence would make him ideal as a HR manager dealing with employee agreements.

He likes punctual - regardless of if it is an appropriate stage/time in questioning. A cup of tea must be a very important thing & time is not flexible even for a few minutes. We all cottoned on and counted down with our fingers to the next break folding one back into our palm each minute - the lawyers knew they dare not go past the break time. Clear it was not important on a trial being fair - just we knew who the boss was.

[Mumbai Merlin]

Hevilift has appealed the decision in the Cairns Court; yet again. [Towers v. Hevilift]
The probable basis would centre around just how long a victim may continue to live.
The appeal is proposed for mid July in Brisbane.

It has been 14 years since the accident; if you work for Hevilift, perhaps it might be best to review your contract and satisfy yourself your contract covers accidents and compensation.

[Night Beetle]

What a complete farce. Here is an accident that did not need to happen.The pilot now says he had no idea or wasn't told the weather goes off in seconds.( An excuse for his behaviour and costing the lives of others) Hello this is PNG. This country has a reputation that precedes itself for all things.
As for the company he worked for, I hope they seek a refund from their defence lawyers allowing the judge to make a silly ruling. "Gets what you pay for"

So those families that had their fathers,brothers,husbands killed, is there any more for them? Not likely. If the pilot ever gets paid,will he share some of the damages with those he killed?
As for an appeal for the length of the pilots life. Is that all they could come up with. That just guarantees this circus will continue for years to come. The only winners if you call it that,will be the (in this case) underrated defence laywer/s.

Stay tuned for the next episode of "how I mucked up but it was someone elses fault"

[gulliBell]

I've been following this matter from the beginning, having been working for HL at the time of the accident, including a lot of time in the southern highlands of PNG. On the face of it the outcome is perplexing. But the case has been argued before a Court of summary jurisdiction, and before a Court of appeal, and respect to the Court must be due. Just need to take stock of that and accept the Court findings and adapt the hiring and training and operational and maintenance procedures to come into alignment with the Court decision. No axe to grind with HL here, but you shouldn't have pilots on their first tour in PNG, no matter how experienced, thrown in the deep end on their own without a thorough period of close supervision and indoctrination to the uniqueness of the country.

[Night Beetle]

No problems with the court.
It was the information given to them that was found wanting. ie What about distance from cloud? So the pilot was already operating illegally.

[gulliBell]

That is the dilemma. If pilots strictly followed the weather rules in PNG you might as well park the whole VFR fleet for five months of the year. And the IFR fleet wouldn't fare much better because of alternate requirements.

[havick]

That is the dilemma. If pilots strictly followed the weather rules in PNG you might as well park the whole VFR fleet for five months of the year. And the IFR fleet wouldn't fare much better because of alternate requirements.

What’s that say about the current rules/regs if no one adheres to them?

[gulliBell]

The rules/regs were mostly a cut and paste exercise from the New Zealand rules and regs. There is reliance on pilots applying sensibility with an ounce of operational flexibility on the strict reading of the rules/regs. It's only when there is a prang that it will come back to bite said people applying said operational flexibility.

[havick]

The rules/regs were mostly a cut and paste exercise from the New Zealand rules and regs. There is reliance on pilots applying sensibility with an ounce of operational flexibility on the strict reading of the rules/regs. It's only when there is a prang that it will come back to bite said people applying said operational flexibility.

Thats my point. Company expects you to read between the lines and looks the other way. It’s not a problem until there’s a problem, then it’s the PIC’s problem.

Not commenting specifically on this accident, just replying to your earlier post.