View Full Version : Innocence lost in Middle America 11 years ago today.

19th Apr 2006, 19:26
Innocence lost 11 years ago today in Oklahoma City.

At 09:02 eleven years ago 168 men, women and children (19) were killed in the worse terrorist attack on US soil, at that time. It is still the worse domestic terrorist attack on US soil in history to this day.

Now that later terrorist attacks have killed thousands of Americans and other citizens of the world the bombing in Oklahoma City is now just a small footnote in a sad history of terror, death and destruction occurring worldwide.

Of course there were senseless terrorist attacks prior to the Oklahoma City bombing in nearly every area on earth that continue today.

However, when you live in a small city far removed from the international strife occurring in the world it is shocking to have such a horrendous act committed in your backyard.

Possibly we, living in Oklahoma City, were sheltered from the reality of life that existed outside our little sphere of supposed safety. Sadly the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City eleven years ago today proves that no one is safe anywhere.

Sorry, but I am feeling a little morose today remembering our good friend Kathy who was killed in the bombing. A beautiful lady our age who sang at our wedding.

tall and tasty
19th Apr 2006, 19:35
Sorry, but I am feeling a little morose today remembering our good friend Kathy who was killed in the bombing. A beautiful lady our age who sang at our wedding.One is allowed to feel like that,17 years after Lockerbie and I hate the 22nd Dec as much as I hate my Birthday for the day I lost another childhood friend.

For me the chilling picture as I have said before of the fireman with the child haunts me with just your opening words.

Anyone no matter what creed or colour or race should have to put up with terriroisum. It is always the innocent that suffer, they are the soft targets and get the most reaction from the world and media.

RIP all those who have lost their lives in attrocities linked to terrorisum and that includes two of the loveliest men I could have the pleasure of knowing, were at the wrong place and at the wrong time and those their lives through these sort of events. My thoughts with those who are left behind to try and understand what happened to their loved ones.

My biggest wish if it could happen is for all this to stop, but I know that is a pipe dream, but at least we can remember those who lost their lives, regardless of where they came from on this planet.


19th Apr 2006, 21:29
I've mentioned this before, but I vividly recall sitting up after midnight in 1996, watching the Olympic bombing footage from Atlanta over and over on CNN.

I noticed something: one shot of home video was from the rear of the concert crowd. When the bomb went off things got quiet, and everyone just stood and stared, unsure of what had happened.

Then, in the foreground, a brown haired woman snaked her way out of the crowd at top speed, pulling two children along by the arms. She fled from the scene off camera.

I finally realized that she was probably either Israeli or British, and unlike the Americans, knew what had just happened.

Sadly, more Americans would be aware of the situation today....

19th Apr 2006, 22:20
{{{{con-pilot}}}} - thank you for the reminder. When Europe and the UK were suffering terrorist bombings during the 70s and 80s I remember thinking how blessed were my American friends to only have to worry about safety when they went overseas. I had many narrow escapes when things exploded where I should have been "but for" my being somewhere else by happenstance.

Oklahoma was, or may have been, a wake-up call, a loss of innocence for the American people. I love the USA and dearly wish I could afford to live/work there (one is getting on in years so need a Lotto win to make one's wish come true) but I have been truly saddened at how wounded most seemed to feel ... as if they, the individual, could have changed something. Because many of us in Europe have lived and continue to live through Baader Meinhof, Brigate Rossa, Munich, Locherbie, IRA bombing UK, ETA et al. we have somehow become acclimatised to the reality of vigilance and accept that we, the individuals, can only remain alert and can not be made responsible for the actions of a few extremists.

As an aside, it is interesting but it seems that the teens and young 20s of today in the UK are far less aware of terrorism and its genuine threats than I was at the same age.

Again con-pilot - thank you for giving one pause in one's day.

Solid Rust Twotter
20th Apr 2006, 08:04
Thoughts with you and all those who've lost loved ones and friends to these atrocities.

As one of those who've lived with and been affected by terrorism I understand the frustration and rage.:(

20th Apr 2006, 08:15
Oklahoma was appalling.

As a Brit who has lived through over 30 years of IRA atrocities, many of which were financed with American money, and many of whose perpetrators were sheltered by sympathisers in the USA, I remember thinking that now, at last, those Americans who saw the IRA in some romantic green haze would realise what terrorism is all about. I hoped that Oklahoma would mark the beginning of a change in American attitudes. It looks as if that did happen, to be horribly confirmed by 9/11.

20th Apr 2006, 08:30
At Christmas we received our usual letter from Aunt Elsie. It enclosed a picture of the female members of her family standing in a garden, dolled up a bit. Mrs CD looked and said, "Looks as though they are at a funeral."
We only met her son Giles once since childhood. About twenty years ago he was a rather strange, intellectual figure, glasses and a big beard and full of ideas about Poland, the strikes and so on going on there. He had married a polish lady and frankly we did not gel at all.

Aunt Elsie's letter told us he had been killed on the bus on July 7th. Of course we had seen the news but never dreamed for one moment a member of our family was involved, let alone lost. Giles 'hobby' had earned him the Order of Poland. He had many friends from his interest in film and literature. It seems that Giles the quiet was really Giles the strong, Giles the steadfast friend.

Aunt Elsie is a lovely, caring and giving lady. The Aunt Elsies of this world should not have to go through this.

20th Apr 2006, 18:13
Con-Pilot --
Thanks for the thread posting.

Flying Lawyer
20th Apr 2006, 21:41
A moving post con-pilot.

(Such a shame Brizzo has used the thread to introduce a controversial dimension, and a one-sided view of the Irish troubles.)

20th Apr 2006, 23:12
I remember that sad and shocking day, and recall the great speculation that foreign terrorists were to blame - I had a gut feeling otherwise.

The mastermind had his justice served on my birthday.


National Park Service OKC Page (http://www.nps.gov/okci/home.htm)

Thank You for this remembrance Con-Pilot.

20th Apr 2006, 23:59
(Such a shame Brizzo has used the thread to introduce a controversial dimension, and a one-sided view of the Irish troubles.)

Controversial? One-sided? How's that?

Were the IRA not given cash and comfort by some Americans? Was there not a misconceived sympathy for the green terrorists in the American psyche? Were the IRA justified in blowing limbs off office workers?

What's controversial? What's one-sided?

21st Apr 2006, 00:22
Concur Brizzo, Flying Lawyer - don't be so quick to judge.
Its only when like for like atrocities happen in the U.S.A do Americans wake up to the awful facts of terrorism.

The millions of dollars given by anyone from ordinary Americans up to prominent U.S businessmen to the IRA, funded not only murder, but punishment beatings, criminal activity and terrible acts of brutality which make the losses of life in the few terrorist acts on American soil, pale into insignificance.
The event that led to my loss was perpertrated by the IRA using materials which were subsequently directly atributed to funding from the USA, I was just one of many in the same situation over many years.

Flying Lawyer
21st Apr 2006, 00:49

I wasn't being quick to judge. It was a considered comment which reflects my long-held views.

I'm very sorry you suffered a loss. I'm sorry for anyone who suffers a loss as a result of terrorism. In the Irish context, I'm equally sorry for those who suffered loss as a result of unionist-terrorist atrocities.

tall and tasty
21st Apr 2006, 01:10
anyone who suffers a loss as a result of terrorism. I think in that statement the act of terrorism lies, It does not matter what creed, colour or nationality you are a terrorist will strike at the heart of the soft target to get maximuim effect. You look at some of the biggest acts of it and their are nationals from around the world including their own.
There lie no boundaries when these acts are performed as far as I can see. It is just those left behind , like Con-pilot and anyone else who has lost a dear one to try and pick up the pieces of their shattered lives, maybe forgive and move on with the memory of their loved one fading as the years go by.
I can forgive those who took my friends, only now but each year it gets a little easier, but with that each year I wonder how thier lives would have changed if they were still here and what difference they may have made. Their loss has made a big difference to me it makes me want to see the end of all these acts and make people forgive each other. I know that will never happen but at least it is a step forward if they can rather than a step back and maybe will save a few more in the future. Every life is precious you only get one chance at living it.

sorry a long waffle con-pilot, I apologise

21st Apr 2006, 01:48
Those two days we suffered here in the US, did indeed teach Americans more than all of reporting from places like Tel-Aviv and London over the years gone ever could.

We can only hope that all forms of terroristic acts will diminish in the coming decades, and that one day, some kind of worldwide dragnet can be thrown to catch and jail the miserable sods that fund and inspire them.

I can forgive those who took my friends, only now but each year it gets a little easier, but with that each year I wonder how thier lives would have changed if they were still here and what difference they may have made.

I cannot even begin to think about forgiving the ones that brought down the Murrah Building, nor the other misguided morons that attacked us on September 11th - and I don't even know any victims personally.

You are a better person than I TnT.

21st Apr 2006, 02:09
Need to point out that the IRA was in no way ever funded by the US.

As America is one big diaspora, a large segment of the large Irish community was closely attuned to the conflict with England. Many trace their ancestors' emigration to the Potato Famine, and there remain hard feelings just as in Ireland and England.

Today, some Americans even donate money for Islamic terrorism.

I can't forgive 9/11 or the adherents of the ideology that fostered it until after their movement is left in ashes. I think it's better to fight that murderous hatred always. It's not worthy of forgiveness.

21st Apr 2006, 05:20
I'm not sure forgiveness is an issue as in order to be forgiven, one has to repent - and reform. I can't think of many terrorist organizations that are keen to discuss either point.

I share Flying Lawyer's disappointment about certain posts on this forum. Granted, some US immigrant groups view their ancestral fatherlands with rose-tinted spectacles, to the point of funding regrettable causes - and this is reprehensible. However, to take this as inspiration for another (yawn) cheap shot at American attitudes is, at best, inappropriate.

Thanks con-pilot for the timely reminder. My condolences for Oklahoma's losses and especially your friend.

(Edited to delete something that might have sparked an off-topic debate.)

21st Apr 2006, 11:10
Although Brizzo's right that it took terrorist atrocities on home soil for many Americans to truely appreciate what terrorism meant, they did pay a pretty hefty price. So much so, that for all the 30 years of IRA bombings in England, the worst single terrorist act in terms of numbers of British people killed is still 9/11.

On a less controversial note, I was very impressed with the 'Empty Chairs' monument that now stands on the site of the Federal building. Moving and dignified.