Multi Crew Co-operation Courses (MCC) - Providers & Facts

[scameron77]

I've decided to start this thread in the Interviews forum opposed to flight training one as firstly, I feel the way the market is changing every few days, in a few months all we might need after attaining our fATPL's is a MCC (opposed to a MCC and a TR) to secure that first job.

My 2nd reason is that this forum will have more people viewing it who have successfully attended or are in the process of researching a MCC course.

And I've moved it because it is about Flying Training and not about Interviews, Jobs or Sponsorships

Scroggs

Granted Scroggs, my idea was that most people looking to do a MCC are already at an advanced stage, hence they tend to view the interviews, jobs or sponsorship thread more often than this on. Therefore, noticing this thread, creating more interest, generating more feedback and making this discussion more complete. However I do appreciate your decision

Additionally, I would really appreciate it if those contributing would do the following. submit info in the same format I have used so far, source the website for the school (page specifically for MCC if possible). And finally no need to contact me numerous times regarding updating the first post, I will get round to doing it, just a busy bunny that's all.

Love and Kisses,

Stephen

3rd please add to this thread with comments suggestions, I will update this first thread to people don't have to trudge through 4/5 pages of posts to find out everything.

So here is what I've found so far:

JAA
Approx 1,500 to 3,700 GBP dependant on simulator used

Providers (in no particular order):

Bond Aviation - Gatwick/Heathrow Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy flyintheskyfr via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: www.bondaviationsolutions.com (http://www.bondaviationsolutions.com) re-directs you to HUB'Air Belgium. www.hubair.net (http://www.hubair.net/) (website needs a password - not a good start)
Cost: 2,999 EUR
Simulator used: Beech 200

CTC (via ATP program) - Bournemouth Update 19th April, 0830 GMT courtesy chocksawayUK
Website: www.ctc-aviation.com (http://www.ctc-aviation.com)
Cost: Cost is £4650 + VAT. (Or £5695 + VAT incl. full board accom.) + 165 GBP fee for stage 2 interview Initially didn't add the with accommodation info as I haven't for any other school, just basic costs
Simulator Used: 737-?
Additional comments: JOC/MCC/and CRM combined in course. 3 stage interview process to be accepted. Placement with partner airlines upon completion and suitability.

Jetlinx - Uses BA simulators at Cranebank, Heathrow
http://www.jetlinx.co.uk/mcc.htm
Cost: 3,650 GBP
Simulator used: 757-? and A320
Additional Information: Use level-D full flight simulators. The courses are available only on the A320 or B757 Courtesy no sponsor via PM

Parc Aviation - Dublin
Website: http://www.parcaviation.aero/aviation/cs_multi_crew.htm
Cost: 4,755 EUR
Simulator used: 737-200
Additional comments: I've read mixed reviews, instructors seem to be on the ball, sales team leave a lot to be desired.

Oxford Aviation - Oxford
http://www.oxfordaviation.net/skills/mod-04.htm
Cost: 2,595 GBP
Simulator used: 737-?
Additional comments: JOC/MCC combined

Cabair- Cranfield & Bournemouth
Website: http://www.cabair.com/modular/05.htm
Cost: ?
Simulators used: Alsim 200 & Tristar LC-1011

Wolverhampton Airport Flight Centre - Wolverhampton
Website: http://www.hgfc.co.uk/htm/multicrew.htm
Cost: 1,950 GBP
Simulator Used: Piper Cheyenne

Atlantic Flight Training - Coventry
Website: http://www.flyaft.com/images/IMGXK0TzV.pdf
Cost: 1,995 GBP
Simulator used: Beech 200

Scandinavian Aviation Academy - Vasteras, Sweden
Website: http://www.bfsaa.se/utbildningar.php?uid=2&aid=0
Cost 39,995 SEK
Simulator used: 737-?
Additional comments: Approved by Ryanair

Lufthansa Flight Training - Various, Germany
Website: http://www.lft-online.de/lft/eng/data/contentseite.php?menu_id=151 (not too easy to navigate, they also use slightly different definitions from other flight schools)
Cost: ? (I have requested info)
Simulators used: they have over 30 but again requested info for MCC course
Additional comments: Unsure of their relationship with Intercockpit

Relating to details directly above:

InterCockpit Update 19th April, 0745 GMT courtesy Flopsie
Website: www.intercockpit.com (http://www.intercockpit.com)
Cost: €5400
Simulators used: 737-? & A320
Additional Info: FTO of LFT providing ab-initio integrated/modular training, MCC, type rating and base/line training for 737/A320

BCFTC, Bournemouth Update 19th April, 0745 GMT courtesy Tristar1
Website: www.bcft.org.uk/mcc.shtml (http://www.bcft.org.uk/mcc.shtml)
Cost: website states 2,399 GBP Tristar 1 quotes 2,499 GBP
Simulator Used: Full motion L1011 (Tristar)

Swiss Aviation Training Ltd., Zurich LSZH Update 19th April, 0745 GMT courtesy error 401
Website: www.swiss-aviation-training.com/satindex/index/aviation-training/at-pilot-training/at-hf/at-hf-mcc.htm (http://www.swiss-aviation-training.com/satindex/index/aviation-training/at-pilot-training/at-hf/at-hf-mcc.htm)
Simulator Used: based on Airbus A320 (possibly still use the A320 FFS)
Additional Info: Leading also in the new ICAO Multi Crew licensing, website a mixture of English and German but was taking an age to load when I checked the link

TFC Kaeufer GmbH, Germany Update 21st April, 1330 GMT courtesy error 401 & bfato
Website: http://www.tfc-kaeufer.de/angebot.html
Cost: 3,490 EUR
Simulator Used: 737-?
Additional Info: Website completely in German, doesn't appear geared to a pan-European market.

London Metropolitan University, City of London Update 20th April, 0230 GMT courtesy bfato
Website: http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/depts/bss...s/prof/mcc.cfm (PDF at: http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/library/u83482_3.pdf)
Cost: GBP 2,250
Simulator Used: King Air (unsure if 90/200/350 however not much difference)

Flight Experience, Bristol Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy herbaceous
Website: www.flightexperience.co.uk
Cost: TBC but anticipate mid £2k
Simulator Used: 737NG Fixed Base sim
Additional Info: This is a new operation which expects to start courses in August 06, no specifics on MCC as yet, glossy MPEG though

Flight Training Europe, Jerez, Spain Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy Jimmy the Big Greek via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/page.php?page_name=courses_modular
Cost: 4,000 EUR (It includes accommodation and food)
Simulator Used: Hawker 125-800
Additional Info: scroll down 3/4 way website link for MCC info

Panamedia, Palma de Mallorca, Spain Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy Jerezflyer via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: http://www.panamedia.org/mcc_texto.htm
Cost: 2,400 EUR
Simulator Used: King Air 200
Additional Info: Website in Spanish, no English version button in sight.

Avia Training, Norway Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy slow&low via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: http://www.aviatraining.no/index.php?page=1&s=8&PHPSESSID=7add2703f4f3be34e84bfd5109484b14
Cost: From 2,425 EUR King Air 200 to 4,250 EUR B737
Simulator Used: King Air 200 and B737-?

University of Zilina, Slovakia Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy kinetic via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: http://www.lvvc.utc.sk/?page=85&lang=en
Cost: ?
Simulators Used: FNTP II MCC (not defined)

Flugschule Berlin, Germany Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy bfato via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: http://www.flugschule-berlin.de/mcc_e.htm
Cost: B737-300 €3,890.00 incl VAT COLOR="Red"]Update 27th April, 2030 GMT courtesy ColeTrickle[/COLOR]
Simulators Used: 737-300, 737-800, A310 and A320

Flugschule Ardex, Kyritz, Germany Update 21st April, 1250 GMT courtesy dofly via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: http://www.flugschule-ardex.de/html/funk.html
Cost: 2,160 EUR (Beech) and 4,250 EUR (B737)
Simulators Used: Beech 200 and B737-?
Additional Info: Not in English

Aerodynamics Malaga, Spain Update 22nd April, 18.45 GMT courtesy kyla via PPRuNe link 2 below
Website: http://www.aerodynamics-malaga.com/ (no direct link due to flash animation)
Cost: 2,980 EUR
Simulators Used: Beech 200/Beech Duchess/Citation
Additional Info: No specifics I could find on the MCC on the website, nice music though

Multi Crew Training Ltd., Bournemouth Update 24th April, 10.30 GMT courtesy FougaMagister
Website: http://www.multicrew.co.uk
Cost: 2,400 GBP
Simulator Used: L1011-500 (Tristar)

Flight Safety International, Farnborough & Paris Update 24th April, 10.30 GMT courtesy FougaMagister
Website: http://http://www.flightsafety.com/searchresults3.php?home=my&catId=6&groupId=7
Cost: Falcon 20 €6,159.40 incl VAT, Saab 340 £2,500.00 ex VAT
Simulator Used: EMB-120, Falcon 20, Saab 340 Update 27th April, 20.30 GMT courtesy ColeTrickle
Additional Information: I searched the website, not too much tangeable info though, however ColeTrickle wrote to them and found ot the following, Falcon 20 offered at Le Bourget and Saab 340 at Farnborough. No info on the EMB-120 yet.

SAS Flight Academy, Stockholm, Sweden (also Olso, Norway) Update 24th April, 10.30 GMT courtesy Olof
Website: http://www.sasflightacademy.com/
Cost: ?
Simulator Used: Fokker 28 (Full Flight Sim)
Additional Info: Click on 'Training' Tab, then 'Pilot', then 'courses' for minimal info on MCC. PPRuNer Olof did his on the the F28 however according to their website you can do a MCC on any of their aircraft.

RWL GERMAN FLIGHT ACADEMY GmbH, Moenchengladbach Update 27th April, 20.30 GMT courtesy ColeTrickle
Website: http://www.rwl-flight.de/uploads/pdf/32SimB737.pdf
Cost: Beech 200 €2,160.00 incl VAT, B737 400/800 €3,190.00 incl VAT
Simulators Used: King Air 200, 737-300/400 and 737-800
Additional Information: All in German, can fumble through it and get the gist if you are patient though. Also very competitive.

FAA
No provision or requirement for a specific MCC in the US, however they undergo LOFT (Line Orientated Flight Training) which covers the elements of a JAA MCC course (I'm guessing not to the same detail, however maybe I'm wrong). Heard there may be issues for non-US citizens doing TR courses despite having a FAA licences.

Other useful PPRuNe threads:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217406

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=203402

[High Wing Drifter]

Thanks Scameron, nothig to add but to say this'll come in handy as I'm just now thinking about the MCC.

[BOAC]

The problem is, as I explained, it is the mods' responsibility to ensure that posts on PPrune do not contain any untoward links. I and PPP do not have time to sit while 62mb of video on a topic (which I would not, I admit, find of interest), download and then watch it. Hence the action. Now this is off somewhere else.

[Flopsie]

Lufthansa Flight Training - Various, Germany
Website: http://www.lft-online.de/lft/eng/data/contentseite.php?menu_id=151 (not too easy to navigate, they also use slightly different definitions from other flight schools)
Cost: ? (I have requested info)
Simulators used: they have over 30 but again requested info for MCC course
Additional comments: Unsure of their relationship with Intercockpit


InterCockpit is an FTO of LFT providing ab-initio integrated/modular training, MCC, type rating and base/line training for 737/A320

Cost of MCC: €5400 (737 or A320) - (£3,739.88 at today's rate)

http://www.intercockpit.com

[TRISTAR1]

Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training (BCFTC)

Full motion Lockheed L1011 (Tristar)

Cost £2499 incl

[scameron77]

Updated 4 new providers.

I would only add the sentiments I expressed in the blue text at the top of the post. If you want to add any provider(s) please complete in the following order:

Provider, Location, Country (unless obvious)
Website: Specifically of the MCC course
Cost: local currency is fine
Simulator used:
Additional Information:

Also please just don't be a user, if you find out anything which is currently a '?' please let us know or have any knowledge to add to the thread please take the 2 minutes out of your day to write a PM/post.

[ChocksAwayUK]

Just to confirm/correct a few things RE: CTC ATP:
Cost is £4650 + VAT. (Or £5695+VAT incl. full board accom.) There is no 'interview fee' although there is a fee of £164.50 for Stage 2's aptitude tests (no longer 'under discussion', but fact.)

[bfato]

London Metropolitan University, City of London
website: http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/depts/bssm/aviation/courses/prof/mcc.cfm
pdf: http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/library/u83482_3.pdf
cost: GBP2,250
sim: FNPTII configured as Kingair

[herbaceous]

Flight Experience,Bristol
Website: www.flightexperience.co.uk (http://www.flightexperience.co.uk)
TBC but anticipate mid £2k
737NG Fixed Base sim
This is a new operation which expects to start courses in August 06.
Contact details on website.

[FougaMagister]

http://www.flightsafety.com/centers.php for MCC course on the EMB-120 at Le Bourget in Paris. Cost 4,000 Euros inc. VAT

http://www.multicrew.co.uk - L1011-500 Tritstar sim in Bournemouth, 2,400 inc. VAT.

Cheers :cool:

[Olof]

FYI, SAS Flight Academy uses a FFS F28 for their MCC course

[scameron77]

Updated 3 schools thanks to FougaMaster and Olof and amended Jetlinx info.

Please folks help me out by giving me something to work with, I have just spent 40 minutes transfering the limited info supplied into the format already defined and then checking the websites to make sure they are OK and so the link goes to the correct page for the MCC.

Not trying to sound like a little bitch but I have already spent 4 hours approx on this already and could do with a little help.

Thanks

NB I'm guessing that companies such as BA/Virgin/BMI/etc. do an MCC course 'in-house' and as part of the company aclimiatisation and SOP's proceedure upon joining? If not, any idea of which providers they use (if external) may look good on the CV if you turn up for an interview and you have a qualification from an already recognised and validated provider.

[Megaton]

BA do all their training in-house and don't use external providers. There isn't a BA "MCC" per se. When yoi the company you attend their own CRM course which is classroom based so I wouldn't bother trying to find a "path of least resistance" in to the company.

[moggiee]

BA Cadet Pilots have traditionally been put through a Jet Orientation Course at either Flight Training Europe (nee BAE Flight Training) or CTC. Any pilot without 500 hours multi crew time is required to undertake an MCC before the issue of their first multi-pilot type rating on their licence - but that can be combined with the type rating itself.

[ColeTrickle]

Got recently as an offer for MCC:

FlightSafety International:
-------------------------
PARIS LEARNING CENTER
Falcon 20 €6,159.40 incl VAT

FARNBOROUGH
Saab 340 £2,500.00 ex VAT

Flugschule Berlin:
----------------
B737-300 €3,890.00 incl VAT

RWL GERMAN FLIGHT ACADEMY GmbH:
------------------------------------
Beech 200 €2,160.00 incl VAT
B737 400/800 €3,190.00 incl VAT

[scameron77]

Updated Flugschule Berlin and FlightSafety as per post above.

Added RWL, it took me ages to sift through it though because I don't speak German, if any further contributors find a non English provider I would be obliged if they got to the specific page on the MCC course.

Additionally removed some of my update posts during a thread maintenance as they were clogging up the thread.

I'll also add again, if you want to add any provider(s) please complete in the following order:

Provider, Location, Country (unless obvious)
Website: Specifically of the MCC course
Cost: local currency is fine
Simulator used:
Additional Information:

Thanks

[ClintonBaptiste]

I finally got my CPL/IR last year, but due to unforseen circumstances I have not yet got my MCC. Nevertheless I've sent off some cv's in the hope that someone might give me a chance ( me and 1000's more! ):ugh:
Now that I've just about got the time and money to get my MCC, I can't decide where to go?

I'd prefer a jet sim, but don't want to pay through the nose for it! I'm tempted to go for the Ryanair TRSS( some say I'm daft, some say it'll be worth it in the long run ). To get on the TRSS, it's said to be beneficial to do the Parc MCC ( not cheap at 4500Euro ), but I'm also tempted by Oxford.

ANY sensible advice on this matter would be appreciated, as would a fellow student to join me on the course.

Cheers:ok:

[mackey]

BCFT gets my vote.
Played on the L1011 Tristar for the practical, it was bloody good fun and didn't cost the earth to do.:ok:
M.

[speedrestriction]

I didn't do it myself but from what I hear CTC are good. The AQC is overpriced for an MCC but if you are successful you can get onto one of their TR courses. Like I said I didn't do it myself, you'll have to do the investigatative work yourself.

sr

[mach daddy]

Does anyone know the exact what happens once you finish the mcc with parc?

Rumour has it that they're good for getting the guys interviews with ryanair and I was wondering if anybody can verify this.Would you need to approach the instructors directly or maybe people that do well on the course hear from ryanair?Seems to be a lot of luck involved.Thanks.

[r2_unit]

Oxford MCC now a tad short of £2900 and (for the ex-military guys) they are ELC accredited.

r2unit

[scanwings]

Would appreciate if anyone had some info about to go about getting previous experience credited towards a full MCC-Course.
I'm in the process of doing my JAA ATPL exams, but I have 3800 TT, Lear-typerating and 1600+ in Learjets (N-reg and FAA ATP)

Thanks

[flyerbuddy]

can you help with MCC providers on A320 plss!!!!
are there any in the US by any chance ??
thanks

[gmac1977]

Call Mike Boulton at Professional flight training, Bournmeouth, Only FTO to be based in European house where full motion sims are.

Currently have access to 737, 747, 727 & 1-11 (tristar died last month)

£2500 for the 737 full motion MCC. great price

Flew the 200 into LGW this sat, great fun. My best aviation experience yet!!

Mikes a top sim instructor!!

[tom_ace]

aft coventry needs updating - no longer use B200 sim, now use CRJ-200.

[flyerbuddy]

hi
i have gone thru all the listings. i could only find these providers for Airbus 320 MCC - Intercockpit, FSB, Sabena, Swiss, GTA, Jetlinx.
Swiss has only 3 sessions for this year, Jetlinx is not doing Airbus till late 2008. That leaves Intercockpit @US$8000, GTA @US$9000, Flugshule Berlin@US$6000. i havent got Sabena's rate. i plan to do the MCC in April/ May.

I want to do the Airbus Type Rating, so doing an MCC on Airbus will be very beneficial. Can anyone suggest where i can do MCC Airbus at good value for money. (I have to account for travel from the US plus stay ). Any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks.:)

[pilotatlast]

Provider, Location, Country ATLANTIC FLIGHT TRAINING,UK
Website: Specifically of the MCC course WWW.FLYAFT.COM
Cost: local currency is fine £2595
Simulator used:CRJ 200
Additional Information:EXCELLENT COURSE WELL RUN AND GOOD EQUIPMENT.

[ARGREECE]

Try www.globaltrainingaviation.com (http://www.globaltrainingaviation.com) in Spain, they provide TR for A320 and MCC on type.Good luck

[Capt. Spock]

I have just googled across the following...

Provider, Location, Country: Flying Academy, Brno, CZ
Website: Flying Academy - MCC Multi Crew Co-Operation (http://www.euro-pilot.com/multi_crew_cooperation_MCC.php)
Cost: 130.602 CZK ~ 5300€ (including tax)
Simulator used: ATR-42 FNTP II

Provider, Location, Country: Solinair, Slovenia
Website: Solinair (http://www.solinair.si/eng/)
Cost: 2400€ (+ tax 20%)
Simulator used: Elite's generic FNTP II

Also about the training device at London Metropolitan University. It's a Mechtronix King Air based FNTP II.

[Charliebravo01]

I have recently completed the MCC provided at European Aviation, Bournemouth. The simulator used is now the B737-200. The course costed £2,400. The ground school phase was a useful refresher on a wide variety of human factors issues underpinned by a wealth of real-life examples. The 'flying' phase was overseen by a very capable and experienced instructor and provided an excellent introduction to multi-pilot operations. Additionally the company were very happy for any of their sims to be used by the students if they were available. The instructors were all very knowledgable and accomodating.

For background my experience is 3000 hrs military fast jet, and my fellow student was a 280 hrs self sponsored pilot - that made for some interesting sorties!

If anyone requires more info please feel free to PM me.

[theflieger]

Hey!!

Can I do a JAA MCC and JAA type rating, if I have an FAA CPL, ME, IFR?

[pilotatlast]

OAA Oxford do MCC/JOC on the A320

[slipper 1]

European Aviation, Bournemouth.
Website: Welcome to European Aviation (http://www.eaac.co.uk)
Cost: £2399 including VAT
Simulator used: Full motion B737-200 or B747-200

[I'm Off!]

Just wanted to post my recommendation for Jetlinx MCC. Excellent instructors, great sim (BA 757 CatD sim), great course structure and content with fantastic flexibility for extra hand flying when time allows for sim check prep. It's not the cheapest available, but totally worth the money, and made a big difference in my sim assessment.

[soullimbo]

scameron77 (http://www.pprune.org/members/87103-scameron77) , you mentioned hubair. I know 2 guys that did this MCC and felt very disappointed after. Another grand extra would have bought them 737 or a320 mcc. Apparently the material is not clear and cluttered, the lessons very much depending on who shows up and some of the guys attitudes are very French. As Brussels airlines pilots they were giving out about other airlines procedures and safety. I was going to do it there as well, but their story put me of. I paid a grand more and my MCC on a 737NG sim. Was brilliant.

[dand07]

bcft is now doing mcc in brand new alsim citation jet. Ive been in it -----quite impressive------mcc works out at around 1900 ex monarch training captain and cathay pacific captain do the training----


Dan student bcft.

[Zdenek.CZ]

just update if helps.

MCC for 2500 Euro (including VAT) in the Czech Republic - Benešov (LKBE) 40km from Prague, brand new FNTPII fix base simulator by Ascent in configuration: Beechcraft KING B200 or Piper PA 34 Seneca V.
2 days - ground prep.
4 days - simulator
Instructors from a ČSA (Czech Airlines)

basic accomodation possible right next to a simulator room for 5 euro (or hotel at the aerodrome for more)

I'm looking for fellow student so if someone is interested just let me know. I would like to start asap.

[ken0311]

hiya,

anyone happen to know if there are any MCC or jet orientation courses around the Asian region?

thanks! :)

[flyer101]

James, it is still £1499, its on their website www.crmeurope.com (http://www.crmeurope.com) ;)

[boeingdriver1]

Interesting to see that the price has come down to £1499 at CRM. I will be looking to do my MCC in the next few months and would be very interested to receive feedback from anybody who has completed the course.

Cheers.

[ICEMAN747]

I've been hearing very good things about CRM at Cranfield. Friend of mine did their MCC course there and said it was excellent. The price is excellent too at the moment I believe according to their ad in Pilot Magazine and on their website. Definitely worth a call !!

[pilotewithoutaname]

I did my MCC with Hubair and was disappointed. Structure is not efficient. Instructors change all the time and so do the sessions. Staff is very french oriented. Briefings were not consequent. Sometimes good, sometimes the guy wanted to go out and light his 'cigarette' leaving us wondering how we did. All in all I'd pay a bit more for a decent MCC. Bear in mind, this is only one experience and it's mine so could be different for you. But I regretted it.

[j_m_pearson]

As I said before, the feedback I can give is generally very good. The Simulator is brand new, glass cockpit based on a Citation II, but it has airbus FMSG and overhead panel. Which is good fun to play with and requires a lot of multi crew effort to operate correctly!

The instructors I had we both interesting and experienceed airline pilots, both had recently retired. We had one instructor for the ground school and another for the flying sorties. The instructor who was taking us for the flying also came in on the last half day of ground school to give input and say hello.

Price was the best thing about it - a fun MCC course, that went without a hitch, appart from some minor tecnical problems with the ADF on two of our flights, for £1500. Cant complain! If you want any more info, or want to give me a job, send me a PM! ;)

[Mikehotel152]

I could say some rude things about the Oxford Aviation Academy MCC course in Stockholm, which is actually run by Scandinavian Aviation Academy, but I won't...:oh:

[birdsflyinghigh]

I've also so heard some positive stuff about them, and am now considering them for my mcc, especially with the price. Only spoke to one of training coordinators there today who was really helpful, seems there arent many courses left anyway, popular!

A long time ago when I was searching for stuff on corporate jobs and I discovered an association with CRM and a guy called Mr Spencer, just wondered if there was still a 'link' between the two?

[flyer101]

Why do you ask? As far as I'm aware though, mr spencer hasn't worked with them for ages. Think he did sone selection stuff there ages (years?) ago and used their simulator. I see him at egtc, currently an instructor with Bonus I think, but no business connection to Crm, Correct me if I'm wrong..

[moggiee]

Yesterday I had an MCC enquiry from a chap who was more than a little surprised that CRM had asked him to pay the full amount up front 3 weeks before the first available start date. The chap I spoke to has been in the training game a long time and thought it rather odd.

[EGTCtraining]

Hi Moggie

Thank you for the post above, thats very interesting to hear.

I'm hoping there must have been some miss communication, somewhere along the line with the enquiry you had.

I work for CRM in the offices and thats not something we are telling our customers. If you check out the website, under our terms and conditions section you will see that payment of any balances is not required until training is underway. This is the same as the terms and conditions my colleagues and I have been sending out to our students for some time now.

Paying for training in advanced is not the norm and isnt something we practice. As you can imagine we've all been in the game quite some time and most of us have been on the receiving end of companies like ours, yours any many others too, so we're all well versed in how it works. Which is why i really appreciate you bringing this to light so it can be resolved. :ok:

We do however ask that the deposit is paid immediately, simply to secure your place. With the courses being so sought after at the moment, paying the deposit up to three weeks in advance is required, maybe thats where the confusion had laid?

Anymore questions or uncertainties please email or call the office. Check out the website for those details. CRM Aviation Europe Ltd. (http://www.crmeurope.com)

Once again, I thank you for letting me know so I can reaffirm our position on behalf us of all in the office AND we apologise to the person who ended up on the wrong end of the stick!

Cheers all and happy flying.

P.

[j_m_pearson]

Hi all.

My experience was that:

I didnt pay any money until two days after I started training. We were never prompted or asked for money, it was really relaxed. The deposit I paid up front about a month before i started though, to gurantee mine and my mates places.

[moggiee]

Hi Moggie

Thank you for the post above, thats very interesting to hear.

I'm hoping there must have been some miss communication, somewhere along the line with the enquiry you had.

I work for CRM in the offices and thats not something we are telling our customers. If you check out the website, under our terms and conditions section you will see that payment of any balances is not required until training is underway.
P.
That's interesting - because it surprised me so much that I rang CRM to check and was told that there was a £500 up front deposit and that if I wanted a course on 23rd November I would have to pay up in full by 1st November. So that's two independent callers who've been given the same "mis-information".

Any miscommunication would appear to be between CRM employees.

[EGTCtraining]

Hi again Moggie

Your statement is very curious indeed and once again can only be put down to an accident or misunderstanding, whether it this be on our part or not.

My colleague and I are the only two dealing with this type of call. I have spoken with him to ensure understanding and despite not remembering who you were 'calling as' on that day (due to the volume of calls we receive) he can soundly say that he would never have said this purposefully - as its simply not our policy.

With regards to our policy: our practices (and history of practices) surrounding monies can be read in our terms and conditions, ascertained through feedback from students, verified by our training partner schools that use us regularly and ultimately our bank statements (which I can’t really send out, sorry!).

We aim to provide honest, cost effective and high quality by delivering exactly what it says on the tin with regards to our training. Our choice to provide MCC courses at a highly discounted rate, in response to current market conditions, has indeed attracted some attention recently.

Nothing more than that can be said on the matter, fact is fact and if one of our colleagues in the training industry discovers something like this, all we can do is set the record straight and apologies if appropriate. So thank you for letting us know.

Cheers all and happy aviating.

Call if you need any more info. :)

P.

[birdsflyinghigh]

All very ineteresting reading after the post i made last week.

I actually ended up visited CRM on Friday morning to have a look around, I met a guy there who looked after training and two of the instructors who were running a course.

The set up seems very pro- their facilities and training equipment are great. The instructors were also really helpful and the students allowed me to back seat 30 mins of their sortie. The simulator is amazing, its full glass cockpit, overhead pannel, FMGS and really suprised me. Ive visited a number of other schools with older simulators and this is in another class. I know its the mcc training that counts, but that seemd pretty good too, both guys were ex training captains - so i figured at that price, the choice was easy!

With regards to the money thing, that suprised me and I will call again to confirm. HOWEVER, when i spoke to Chris on the phone and visited the guys there, all they said was that a £500 deposit was required asap to secure a place and the rest of the money I could pay when ever I want. Nothing was required until i at least started training.

I did my research, paid them a visit and now I'm booked in and ready to go!

Guys if you wana hear what it was like from a visitors perspective, let me know. I just cant beleive how cheap it is for what you get. :}

[Dane-Ger]

There seems to be a few good offers around at the moment for the MCC

CRM as named above at £1500, European skybus on a full motion for £1750, halfpenny green have an offer for £1500 and at FSB berlin it costs 1680 euros.

Are there any other special offers on at the moment to take into consideration that anyone knows about?

regards
D-G

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Yes you will get told off for advertising. Soliciting trade enquiries using the PPRuNe Private Messenging system or profile email address is not on so please cut it out.

I post this publicly as a gentle reminder to all those who frequent the Wannabes forum but are on the trade side of the consumer fence..


WWW :=

[johnsmith87]

2012 update
Oxford Aviation Academy - Oxford
Multi Pilot Training | Oxford Aviation Academy - OAA.com (http://www.oaa.com/pages/training_courses/ab_initio_europe/multi-pilot_training/)
Cost: MCC = £3000/MCC-JOC = £5000/JOC = £2500
Simulator used: 737-400 full motion or CRJ-200
Additional comments: ELCAS approved/JOC element now 20 sim hours with the new upset recovery training/run every one to two weeks

[belowradar]

My vote is for CRM CRM Aviation - MCC Course £1749 Limited Offer - Jet Orientation Course £660 (http://www.crmeurope.com/)

Fantastic new EFIS sim

Very experienced and knowledgable training Captains

Modern classrooms and training support

Great price

What more do you want ?

I really enjoyed my course and thoroughly recommend them, if you want to know how to fly like an airline professional ask an airline professional.

[artlite]

Can somebody tell me how long it's valid? Someone told me half a year? Can you revalidate it when it's expired?

[TonyDavis]

It does not expire.

[4redsyourdead]

I would look at Simtech Aviation in Dublin. Me and five others from where I trained went and found the course good value for money with excellent instruction .

[Darth_Bovine]

Hi,

I was looking at Simtech, however their prices seem quite a bit higher than a lot of other places (eg: CRM). I was quoted over €4k for MCC and JOC; CRM were about £1k cheaper. If I might ask: what sort of prices were you paying?

I don't mind forking out the cash were required but was wondering if anyone can shed any light on why Simtech seem so expensive. Or am I missing some hidden costs with CRM?

TIA,
DB

[4redsyourdead]

Hi there.

I did my MCC with Simtech around 5 months ago and the prices they quoted me were including accommodation at a nearby hotel with buffet breakfast and including my flight. I payed I think 3600 euro in total. I can only assume the price has went up however the best person to speak to is Linda Logan there manager. Really enjoyed my time there and I felt it prepared me well for my interview. What I learnt and the training they provided definitely helped me have a positive outcome and secure my job flying the 737.

EDIT. Just to add on reflection I payed 3600 POUNDS

[Darth_Bovine]

Thanks for the info.

Can I ask why you chose Simtech as they're quite a bit more expensive? Did you get recommendations? Do they do stuff that isn't covered by other cheaper training organisations?

What about the Sim - is it modern EFIS style or is it gauges?

[v1rotate1]

I did my MCC at CRM Aviation. I paid £1749 for the course and there were no additional costs. They were a really good operation. Instructors are all really experienced and seem to genuinely want to help you in your career. Sim is full EFIS and was totally reliable. When I went there last year they were very busy and its a slick operation. I met a guy that had done his MCC there a few weeks ago and he was praising them too.

[4redsyourdead]

I choose them purely because of recommendations. The simulator is fully EFIS and is based on the 737-800 which also attracted me as I had always thought my best bet of a job was with a certain Irish loco. Course lasts if I can remember right 3 days for ground school and 7 days ( 4 hours per day ) for the simulators. The instructors as like CRM are very experienced with most being aer lingus , aer Arann captains.

Also had a friend back from CRM recently and had a great experience with them and as previously mentioned you will rarely see a bad word written about CRM.

If I would do it again I would still choose Simtech , although it was more expensive, the 28 hours flying the 737 most definitely helped me with my interview.

[Vsnake]

Is it Full motion simulator with simtech?

[4redsyourdead]

Fixed base :)