1st May 2001, 23:36
What is happening at Hapag Lloyd Netherlands , After putting 2 737's at AMS ?

I heard some Dutch new trained guy's got the (wrong)German contract (with more pay then was descided as in a "Dutch scale-pay")

As this is a fact , as the guy's are not willing to go to a lower pay , Hapag now wants to employ them out of Germany. (where those contracters now belong in Hapag's view)

So : are there already seperate Dutch-scale-contracts signed by others ?

Interesting shortcut also leads to Martinair , as Martinair is outplacing a bunch of superfluous pilots at Hapag NL. now !


2nd May 2001, 10:24
Ever realised that this could be a good way to secure German jobs in Holland??

EC Employment law says;

1. Nationals
2. EC Members
3. Outside sources

These are the priorities when recruiting qualified personel in EC.

In my opinion they found a good way of getting Germans in to Holland bypassing rule 1.....

Born to fly, taxed out of the sky.....

2nd May 2001, 13:05
I thought most of the pilots there are Dutch!

3rd May 2001, 11:48
As far as I know most of their pilots are German.
I am wondering what will happen this season.

Interesting fact is the less-than-std.German-contract pay.

As compared to the Ryanair Brussels and Easyjet Amsterdam it seems to become standard in our industry that contracts abroad are less payed then from their respective native base !

And then the mix-up to some Dutch guys on German contracts and the outplacement from Martinair........

Anybody with details ?



[This message has been edited by E. MORSE (edited 03 May 2001).]

4th May 2001, 22:10
Well it looks like covert ops.

Details ?
anybody ?


sky unlimited
7th May 2001, 14:27
Most of the Hapag-Lloyd cockpit crew are Germans and most of the cabin crew is Dutch. I heard from (Dutch) insiders that there're a lot of problems concerning CRM between the Germans and the Dutch....

8th May 2001, 13:15
Hi guys,

I can inform you of the following:

- There are no CRM problems
- All the Cabin Crew are Dutch
- All the F/O's are Dutch
- There are a few German Captains (4 or 5)who will stay around 1 year (or so) untill the operation runs smoothly and they've recruited enough Dutch Captains
- The Martinair guys are "borrowed" for the summerseason. This way HLF is happy because it has enough crew for the second aircraft and MAC is happy because there isn't really a lot of work for these guys these days at Martinair anyway and those guys are happy because they got jobsecurity and will go back to MAC after the summerseason. (a win - win situation for all)

There is a contract review at the moment, someting like E.MORSE mentioned just like Ryanair and EasyJet. But nothing has been signed yet.

Hope this clarifies the situation a bit.

Greetings, Whisky

8th May 2001, 23:26
Hullo, Whisky. Good to hear you again. Sounds as if the job is going well. Why do they want to recruit when they have you and M to make up?

9th May 2001, 00:07
Hi Whisky,

I spoke to the personnel dept of Hapag in Germany. They confirmed the MartinAir secondment for 6 months. I was interested in the future erxpansion plans and the local training requirements. I was told the captains and trainers were presently germans, but there was no info, or not willing to tell, about the longer term plans for a Hapag Holland and if everything would then be locally based.
You seem to have an inside track; any news from within?


9th May 2001, 00:21
Greetings whisky, good to see you back in pprune land.

Found your bike :)

thanks for the easter egg!

11th May 2001, 19:55
Rat 5, I'm not sure of what they are planning for the future but things are looking good! Seems like they're trying to set up a Hapag-Lloyd-Netherlands operation (Dutch AOC etc.) based in AMS and crewed locally.
But we'll see what the future will bring... ;)

Croqueteer and notac, thanx for the nice words guys, M & I miss you all... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif


14th May 2001, 02:26
My apologies if this is not directly related to this topic, but I'm interested in knowing how and when this operation was set up in the Netherlands. They tried to set up a similar operation in Belgium, but after pressure from Sobelair (and consequently Sabena) they decided not to do so. Any websites where I can get info?

14th May 2001, 19:47
Hi Guys,

Why all this needless speculation ? If you are a member of VNV, the Dutch Pilot Union,
or Vereinigung Cockpit, the German Pilot Union, they will tell you all you need to know about the Hapag LLoyd AMS operation. If you are looking for a web site, why not try the Britannia-Hapag Lloyd forum on your very own PPRuNe ?

15th May 2001, 12:52
The german captains at HLF Netherlands are retired ones from the German HLF and are over 60 years old. Many flights are still operatet by german crews, because they cannot get enough (dutch) pilots. And why? Because money is bad, and the hole organisation is pure caos. Why are they doing it? To get the maximum profit! But I can also confirm, there is no CRM problem between the dutch and the germans.

19th May 2001, 00:00
Well Brae Cwynd (?) Thank you ,
your comment is ver un-usefull.
Put in your lenses and look again.

20th May 2001, 00:58
OK E.Morse but maybe that means that you are a non-union man? Latest information - Preussag have taken a financial interest in Alpitour, an Italian tour company. Guess who might be doing the flying for them? Another branch of Hapag Lloyd! Go figure.