VARIGLOG MD-11 on its tail at MEX

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

Looks like VARIGLOG put an MD-11 on its tail in MEX recently....

What is it about the Mad Dog that makes it want to sit on its tail??

That makes at least 4 or 5 incidents where the aircraft tipped on its
arse end...

[vs69]

could it be the big heavy round thing in the fin maybe????
that might make it a bit tail heavy........

[7oheaven]

Any sign of the Loadmaster?

[trainer too 2]

What is it about the Mad Dog that makes it want to sit on its tail??

The same thing that makes them fly, the rules of nature... in this case gravity (and a C of G a bit aft due to the no 2) :rolleyes:

[Flightmech]

The same thing that makes them fly, the rules of nature... in this case gravity (and a C of G a bit aft due to the no 2) :rolleyes:

Amazingly, when you jack the MD-11 for gear swings you jack it by the mains and nose and just put a steady in at the tail. Stranger than friction.

[CR2]

Thanks to acmi48 for sending me the picture.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/greenlander/VarigCargo.jpg

[Zero"G"]

two things to consider when loading a MD-F,That model has a 7.5/1.0 ratio of fuel to the tail tank.If,and only if,you close the refueling door and you have not setup pallets in 1A/B positions,the fuel starts to flow into the tail...at the lump sum of 6T......(for each 7.5kg of fuel,it sends 1.0kg to the tail on ground).Most Airorts I operate,have "nose gear"tiedowns,to prevent tail "sitting"...:(
SOP's warn and predict such occurancies,with steps/actions to follow.Nother workaround,is to tie the tow bar&truck to the nose,having a extra counter wieght,for avoidance...
Regards
"0"G

[glhcarl]

I wonder if McDonnell Douglas/Boeing ever thought of locating the main deck cargo door aft of the wings. Seems it would make a lot of sense when the design is so C/G sensitive. Maybe the weight of the door and surround structure would make it even more tail heavy.

[mtogw]

Its reaally simple guys, there's an engine on the tail, so its design makes it tail heavy orientated, when you off/on load the thing you secure the nose and use anti tipping off/onload procedures, if you can't secure the nose gear you use anti tipping off/onload procedures with extreme caution!, the ball mat at the back end gives you the abbility to offload the back end up the left hand stick, and if its a through flight any offload should be planned on the left side. look at the picture, no broken tie down strap dangling from the nose that I can see, no fuel panel open, the only thing I can't see is if the main cargo door is open or if the rear belly door is open, but you can see the fwd belly door open,
the 727 has a tail post, and I can't count the number of times I have seen a 727 taking a rest on the tail post.
A rear main deck cargo door would be too difficult due to the sweep of the wings, a special loader to go in at an extreme angle, and very difficult access for tugs and dollies.

but saying that they are always entertaining photos and i'm always glad it didn't happen to me, its all down to procedures and load planning, particularily for downline stations when its only a partial off/onload , apart from that a great freighter, one of my favourites next to the dc10-30, makes the 747 seem too easy.:ok:

[7oheaven]

mtogw
In answer to one of your questions, yes the main deck cargo door was open!
Apparently 20,000lbs frt left in the back hold. I have seen some of the other pics of this "incident", lots of "suits" standing around looking very puzzled. Do VarigLOg carry a Loadie on their a/c?

[mtogw]

That would be about right....

"lets offload the fwd belly first cos its closest to us"
is one I've heard before

Whats with the handle 7oheaven, a particluar penchant for the old 707 eh??

[7oheaven]

mtogw
Ah, many years loading and flying around on the the old girl, still the queen of the skies, sadly not too many of them left these days.

[mtogw]

7oheaven,
You'll be pleased to know there's another one going back to work this week hopefully after being laid up for 2yrs, but now in very nice shape, and I know of a combi in really good condition look for a home, but that one might be bit too far along the line for me.

[Flip Flop Flyer]

There is a very simple reason.

DOI = 96.5 (LH version)
Tail-tipping = 100.0

In other words, stick 4 tons down the back and she'll tip!

[Buster Hyman]

Used to do the Loadsheet for the MD-11F's of World Airways when they operated on behalf of MASKargo...used to scare the bejesus out of me! :ugh:

Luckily, World operated with their own Loadmasters who would have the final say on the loading...get out of Jail card if you will.

What amazed me was the lack of an IHS on the main deck...except for the doorway if I recall correctly. Not a lot to stop a pallet going for a slide...:eek:

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

Flip Flop

Not a lot of room for error there with that index, is there?


The MD-11 Combi did come with a rear Main Deck Cargo door.
Alitalia took several of these and one they didnt. Bent the door frame
before delivery. Aircraft had to be repaired and then was delivered to
AA as a pax aircraft.

[mtogw]

Sleeping frt dog..
your are quite right, unbelievable why anyone should want to do that, I also thought there was legislation in some countries about pax being behind the freight ,as well as the cost of converting it to a full freighter, you would have to take out the bulkhead/net and put one forward, along with the inconvenience of loading at the back, that is a very angled situation.
But I suppose it made sense to someone somewhere, reckon it was an accountant.

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/6/0/2/0976206.jpg

[Bokomoko]

First rumors about the incident at MEX...
Ground personnel removed cargo from the forward hold before offloading the main deck - basically loaded with flowers from GYE, the previous stop - and the aft hold. Pilots noticed something wrong when they tried to set up the FMS prior to departure because several alerts appeared related to the ground sensor - caused due to the initial movement of the nose gear, slightly off the ground. However after removing the last pallet from the fwd cargo an abrupt pitch up occurred.
That MD-11F (registration: PR-LGE) has a ground fuel loading schedule ratio (7.5:1) however this fuel distribution to the tail tank only occurs when the refueling panel door on the wing is closed and total fuel in the tanks is greater than 70 tons ... anyway, this is not the case because next destination was LAX and required fuel is well below that number.
There are several recommendations for loading/offloading procedures and there is a higher chance for a tail tipping in case of less than 3000 kg in the forward cargo hold, heavy cargo located on the position H (approximately at STA 1420) and beyond, more than 10 tons of total fuel in the main tanks and etc.