Story time

[jetbrett]

Fellow flyers,

Last year me and some fellow pilots went on a bit of a trek around the country side to get some command time for our CPL. Best trip I have ever been on. Anyway I want to say a little something about our second day. We departed Leigh Creek for Ayers Rock, fuel reqs saw us land at Coober Pedy ( the airport being the only civilised part of town, even the Police Station has been burnt down twice!). The airport was buzzing with traffic, an Air Ambulance King Air on its way to Essendon, a Rex Metro, a 210, and us in our 3 172's and one 182. We had a chat with the metro drivers and got out the way for the king air and it was a wonderful atmosphere until a C402 rocked up. Two of our planes had been refuelled already and the other two were inline, we were in a bit of hurry because our current plans showed us fighting daylight, only 2 of the pilots being night rated. The 402 was a South Australian Police craft, and it was full of members of the force. The captain got out and asked quite bluntly if he could use the bowser next because they were running behind schedule. Being young and inexperienced, and low down in the food chain we said that he could go ahead, (we wouldnt have dare said no!!). He filled the 402 to capacity which took over 15 minutes from start to finish. They pondered round with no urgency even after we expressed our concerns to him about our need to hurry aswell. We tried to have a chat to him, he didnt want to know us at all. We nearly all dropped dead when he got in the plane with the troops and blasted off. No thankyou, no goodbye, nothing, no one would have guessed he was human. I think the words Silly Old with the "C" word following were said numerous amounts of time. Anyway I just want to let everyone know about this "S.O.C". Dont reply if you really dont want to, i just wanted to bring it to the attention of everyone. He was a shame on Aviation, and if I ever get to meet him ( i wont forget his face) i will let him know about it aswell. Treat everyone with respect. If he thought his 1970 402 was the s**t i have got news for him. Nice sharing my story, sorry if you found it boring, but keep your eyes open for this South Australian Police "S.O.C". By the way we made it to YAYE in the daylight!!

[Tagneah]

Pesky South Australians, hey Brett?

You only had to put up with him once........!!!

Say Hi to tha Soulman!

Tag

[THE CONTRACTOR]

South Australia, isn't that where they shoot first then ask questions? I think you did the right thing.

[AusFlygal]

Sadly, the concept of airmanship is dying out.

By and large I find most people I meet are very helpful and encouraging but every now and then I come across those who have forgotten what it is like for those who are fledglings and venturing out into the big wide world for the first time. I genuinely appreciate constructive feedback, it helps the learning process and will hopefully make me a better and more confident pilot - but some people are just downright arrogant.

I had my own experience with a "S.O.C" - for want of a better name -barely a month ago at certain Nth Qld coastal aerodrome. My friend and I embarked on a character (and hour) building exercise to Nth Qld from Melbourne - so we expected it to be a steep learning curve. Anyway flying into this particular aerodrome, I requested taxi guidance for fuel and GA parking from the tower, which I duly got. I also asked a local for advice on parking. Little did I know that I was about to commit the heinous crime of using someone elses ropes.

This "gentleman" (and I use the term very loosely) managed to track me down and called me on my mobile and berrate me for the next 30 minutes. In between the insults, I did apologise several times and tried to explain that it was not intentional and it was our first time out of Victoria, that surely he can remember what it is like to be a low time pilot on a first time adventure and that we were unaware of this certain protocol, but I doubt he heard me as he was on a roll.:(

Apparently he is well known there and has done this sort of thing many times before. The locals have all given up and he basically gets his own way now (the squeaky wheel gets the oil!) Well I felt like crap after that, but decided to put it all behind me - the rest of the trip was absolutely fantastic.

Don't let people like that get you down - keep your eye on your goal and even if others don't display airmanship, make sure you do - as you can see, your reputation whether it be good or bad will precede you. Most of the people you will meet will put a smile on your face.

:)

[Tagneah]

South Australia, isn't that where they shoot first then ask questions? I think you did the right thing.


Nahh mate! Thats the Victorian Coppers!!

[jetbrett]

yeah thanks, the rest of the trip was fantastic and many better stories came out of it, many cloudy memories for some reason aswell :D . Must have been from getting up early :bored: . Yeah well what goes around comes around hey!! JB

[Soulman]

jetbrett - were you the 8 foot bogan in footy shorts and thongs?

Lucky we weren't the fashion police...

:} :} :}


Soulman.

P.S Tag - How's the beer glass collection going these days? ;)

[Tagneah]

Slowly!

I have trouble fitting more than one in my G string to remove them from the premises!

I have to go back to watching TV now

Tag

[Arm out the window]

Don't worry about it, there's all kinds of knobs around in this world but if you sink to their level it doesn't do any good.
I like to think idly that there's such a thing as karma - what you do catches up with you sometime, good or bad, so if people want to go around acting like goats, with any luck they'll end up sad old tossers wondering why they haven't got any real mates.
Plus in our industry, word gets around pretty quick.

[sage]

Coupla' points for your consideration Brett.

You feel aggrieved put out because you feel your courtesy wasn't perceivably reciprocated or appreciated. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't.
Whilst it doesn't excuse rudeness if that was the case, you don't know what operational concerns the SA PolAir driver may have had on his mind. It may have been just selfishness once he had what he wanted.....or forgetfulness liaising with ops, requirements or drama/problems with or demands from the team/prisoner he had on board. Or simultaneously several of the above.

If you consider it from this perspective, you can see where running over to thank you profusely after the event, which might have seemed a major importance and issue to you, was load shed into the insufficient time or priority basket for him at the time.

When you've been in the professional operational environment for a while, you'll appreciate pressures which can be coming from several directions simultaneously that aren't evident to the outsider. His reasons for not being talkative with you could have been for many reasons other than intended discourtesy or general unfriendliness. You don't know what had happened to motivate him to request jumping the queue.

By your own admission, and he probably read you the same way, you guys were tourists on a sightseeing trip...and he's thinking to himself that's all he needs, the aero club kids on a jolly playing pilot wanting to bask leisurely in the "wonderful atomosphere" holding him up.

Can you tell us if he had an unruly prisoner onboard? Y'know the type who spits on anyone and everyone within range continually throughout the entire flight, urinates and or defacates in his own clothing just to annoy everyone with the stench? That's when he's not perpetually shouting obscenities and kicking and lashing out with his feet and fists. The women can be worse. Or how about an Inspector or team of Detectives in a hurry putting the squeeze on the driver to get back within a specificed time frame, whether for personal or task related reasons? Choosing between displeasing you or displeasing them,...guess which one you'd choose to displease if you were in that situation given the potential they might have (vs you) for making his life 'unpleasant'.

That said, I agree, personal discourtesy is pretty poor form. He coulda' chucked you a million dollar smile, an appreciative nod and left you feeling like benevolent king instead of like you'd just been shafted by a pro. But here's a tip. Toughen up. That's just generally applicable in life. Sadly, some people are just like that and here's the real truth.

In aviation you're gonna' meet more of those types than possibly in any other vocation. It 's just a industry full of driven egos competeing with one another for insufficient jobs. At any level, professional aviators are piranhas. They'll eat their own without a thought or conscience. That suit with the fancy braid you get when you make it to a seat with a door behind it and someone to bring you coffee.... is the veneer of civility, but beyond that nothing's really any different when push comes to shove.

That's just how it is.

[the wizard of auz]

I generally will let anyone that requires fuel in a hurry to go before me if they need to (my laid back and not in a hurry nature :} ) but did have an experiance the same as yours a while back. I ran into this same individual again a while later, and it seems its his SOP to try and charge through in front of who ever is there. He obviously didn't recognise me from a while ago and tried it on me again. He looked a bit taken aback when I said NO. (he must be used to doing it.) when he asked why not, I replied, Because your an arrogant old prick, I need fuel as much as you do, I was here first, refer to point one again. he stomped off muttering and when I said Scuse me,I didn't catch that, I got an evil stare. :eek:
I saw him again a few months later at another bush strip. he landed about three mins after I did and taxied up behind me and sat in the aircraft for about twenty mins, waiting. (I took my time). it must have been 55' in that aircraft. :} :}
As for the guy who was doing all the berating on the phone. I would have pushed the off button.......and continued to do it until either his attitude changed or I got sick of it and stayed switched off.
Some people have no manners.

That's just how it is. Mate, its only like that if thats how you let it go. Nothing wrong with a bit of curtesy. it take two mins. if your that stressed about whats going on about you, you should get another job.
Also, expecting a bit of curtesy for doing a favour for a fellow flyer isn't a big ask. a simple wave, or a shouted "thanks mate" is pretty simple. you make it sound like its a big drama and shouldn't be expected. thats just plain arrogant. Regardless if your pax is spitting and shouting and crapping to make your life hard. thats your drama, not some bloke who just did you a favour.
you should be expecting that sort of stuff if you applied for that sort of job. Toughen up!.
as for "thats how it it is" and all that crap, I have been in the industry for 13 years, all over the world and have only met about four real wankers with that attitude.......... so its not as common as you make it out to be. you reap what you sow. act like a jumped up arsehole and thats how people will treat you.
Generally, most pilots in the industry will go out of their way to help out when they can, and will appreciate it when you help them out.

(yeah, yeah. I know that there's spelling mistakes. save you the drama of pointing it out)

[Arm out the window]

Sage, your turn of phrase would work well in a novel, but the piranhas you speak of are really only ****-kickers like ourselves when it comes down to it - if anyone has real-life reasons to get in front of the queue, then well and good, but a quick courteous explanation is all that's required.

[jetbrett]

love it all boys and girls, come to think of it, he might not have liked us/me due to the fact that the female officers were turned on by the fact i had my footy shorts on, it was hot alright. If time wasnt a constraint for both parties it could have been on like donkey kong. Have fun. JB :oh: ......

[Soulman]

If time wasnt a constraint for both parties it could have been on like donkey kong.

Bags the one with teeth! :}

Soulman.

[sage]

Hi AotW

What part of "I agree, personal discourtesy is pretty poor form. He coulda' chucked you a million dollar smile, an appreciative nod and left you feeling like benevolent king instead of like you'd just been shafted by a pro" doesn't agree with your rational that the 402 driver could certainly have dealt with the situation more tactfully than as alleged by the original author?

I was inviting Brett to merely view things from an alternative, more considered perspective, from an aspect he apparently hadn't?

Sure, our 402 driver's behaviour might just indicate him a narcissistic individual, but maybe not. Sometimes, people just don't behave as expected through oversight or inducement of some other external pressure, nor offer any explanation which is not intentional rudeness though easily perceived as such. We can't all be like good olde Wiz, with his whole 13 years of experience, beyond load shedding under pressure, unaffected by emotion and of course, never allowing personal considerations or work pressures to affect his functioning. :rolleyes:

The novel it fits is the 'novel' of real life experience in the industry. Of course I was referring to "us" inclusive. eg: Perhaps you, and certainly the Wiz being a relative neophyte, weren't around flying during the Australian pilot's dispute of '89, but you may have heard of it? A perpetual reminder by way of example of one's fellow aviators 'camaraderie', disloyalty toward and brotherly contempt for one another, a hatred born which rages in some to this day, and would be repeated in a heartbeat in similar circumstances. Examples abound. The U.S. air traffic controllers strike during Reagan's time as well as the many airline pilots strikes amongst now non existant U.S. majors. eg: Eastern. How about the Cathay bans of not so long ago, and now the DragonAir ban. Similarly, just watch how long it will take to fill the shoes of the Air Ambulance guys or RFDS blokes who refuse to eat their greens or swallow whatever bitter pills they're being asked to as their conditions are further eroded. And if you really want to watch the piranhas at work, all yoú've ever had to do is go down to any flying school and watch the instructors jostling for available work, paid per diem if they're one of the fortunate few.

It's just the nature of the beast exacerbated by pressures and 'opportunities' within the industry.

And of course, I was speaking in the broader context which anyone rational with a modicum of intelligence and experience might easily interpolate for themselves at any level of aviation you might be at or be given the opportunity to to explore in future. People don't change just because they start wearing fancier clothes and driving heavier metal.

Whether juggling for free flying as an parochial PPL amateur or contract international ATP 'professional', the reality is that pilots are just cannibals in fancy dress trying to survive in the aviation industry jungle. We compete against one another, and side with whichever tribe holds the power base when and if it benefits us. Despite the Mr Nice Guy charade, there's nothing one pilot won't do to another to achieve what it is he wants...if he truly wants it. The thin veneer of civility disippates as readily as a Cu in the summer sky when it comes down to "only one of us is going to be able to pay the mortgage" or keep our job. Mind you, your 'mate' isn't going to tell or show you that....to your face.

It's not that he's against you. It's just he's for himself in an industry where the chalice simply ain't full enough for everyone who wants a sip of the communion wine.

[the wizard of auz]

We can't all be like good olde Wiz, with his whole 13 years of experience, beyond load shedding under pressure, unaffected by emotion and of course, never allowing personal considerations or work pressures to affect his functioning.

well, your right there old mate. you can't all be like me......... but you can strive for it. :} :}
13 years may not be a life time in aviation, and neophyte I may be, but its long enough to get a feel for whats going on. :hmm:

Whether juggling for free flying as an parochial PPL amateur or contract international ATP 'professional', the reality is that pilots are just cannibals in fancy dress trying to survive in the aviation industry jungle. We compete against one another, and side with whichever tribe holds the power base when and if it benefits us. Despite the Mr Nice Guy charade, there's nothing one pilot won't do to another to achieve what it is he wants...if he truly wants it. The thin veneer of civility disippates as readily as a Cu in the summer sky when it comes down to "only one of us is going to be able to pay the mortgage" or keep our job. Mind you, your 'mate' isn't going to tell or show you that....to your face.

well, that all depends. how are your morals and life standards?. I wouldn't stiff anyone for any job. aviation just aint worth it. Its a nice job if you can get a good number, but thats pretty rare. if I do compete for any job, it would be on common ground and up front and as fair a competition as you could ask for. I want the job on my merits, not what sneaky tricks I could get away with. And my thin veneer of civility is not prone to disappating at all. If I have anything to say to my mate, or anyone else for that matter, I will do it with them present, or tell them to their face. that way we all know where we stand.
All it takes is a little moral fortitude and a bit of backbone.

And of course, I was speaking in the broader context which anyone rational with a modicum of intelligence and experience might easily interpolate for themselves at any level of aviation you might be at or be given the opportunity to to explore in future.

Well thats just YOUR opinion and experiance. I was expressing MY opinion and experiances. I believe I have enough rational, and a modicum of both intelligence and experiance to NOT interpolate for myself, into a group that you seem to be generalising about. as it hasn't been my experiance. But then, I am a mere neophyte in this industry, so what I have experianced in general in the industry doesn't really count. :uhoh: :}

[Arm out the window]

From a simple discussion of someone jumping a fuel queue, this has started to get a bit silly.
Sage, if you talk like you write, it's no wonder you've roused the less friendly side in the people you've run across in your career.
Some pilots no doubt act like the backbiting piranhas you mention, but not all, as in any walk of life, so while there may be some 'cannibals in fancy dress trying to survive in the aviation industry jungle' as you imaginatively put it, there are also those who will happily consider the needs of others as well as themselves, and still get the job done.

[blueloo]

What a joke - dont hijack this thread - its about a d-head copper who was rude (and others of similar nature). I found it quite interesting till we managed to invoke the 89 dispute again.

I say back to the topic at hand~!

[bullamakanka]

A few years ago I saw the SAPOL 402 pull of an interesting landing. Remote airfield, blackhole approach, 30-40 mins after last light, landing towards the east, no moon out into an unlit strip. The locals managed to shine the head lights of a troopie down the strip just as he was flaring. Dont know if that would have helped or made it worse at that point. It seemed to have a stronger landing light than normal, but it was pretty black.

I asked the driver about it but was pretty quickly dismissed. I was driving a 172 at that point, maybe its a thing about 172's they have?

Are SAPOL pilots like the road police, able to get some flexibility on regs/rules due opertional reasons?

Bulla

[the wizard of auz]

Sorry guys. ;) back to topic.
Hey Bulla, I reckon your on to something. I have noticed a distinct differance in people when driving my old 172 compared to whn I'm in the 402 or 310.
I might add that its not a negetive thing. Maybe people see a 172 driver as a lesser being than a 402 or 208 driver. :hmm:

[tinpis]

Wiz you would let this joker in first tho wouldnt you?

http://www.sptimes.net/2002/07/22/photos/st-travolta.jpg

[the wizard of auz]

Not unless he was in a hurry and asked nicely, and I had time to spare. otherwise he could just park his 707 behind my 310 in the line up like every one else. :}
(and after I finish filling up, I would casually wander over and in a friendly manner suggest to him that avgas is going to wreck his day if put into a 707)

[Soulman]

Hey Bulla, I reckon your on to something. I have noticed a distinct differance in people when driving my old 172 compared to whn I'm in the 402 or 310.

Funny that - a bit later on in our trip we stopped at Merimbula for some more go-go juice and were in line once again, this time to a 206. Completely different character - one of the best blokes we met all trip. Had more than the time of day for us. Asked what else he flew - "Oh, I'm C & T for Virgin Blue - me and a few mates are just going for a bit of a burn..." :eek:

Still - what's a 737 compared to a 402? Especially one with POLICE written on it? :ok:


Soulman.

[tinpis]

"Oh, I'm C & T for Virgin Blue - me and a few mates are just going for a bit of a burn..."


Soulman

Checkies find it difficult to find someone to talk to :E

[the wizard of auz]

Checkies find it difficult to find someone to talk to

Bwahahaha. :} :E

[maxgrad]

Wiz and Arm out the window.
Got my vote!

Yes the industry is cut throat but that doesn't mean that becomes your modus operandi (whatever...you know what I mean). At the end of the day we are just talking basic airmanship, nothing more. The idea of pilots' back stabbing at every chance to further their future does happen but why join them?
A police plane is just a charter, (with guns). If you want to start jumping in front of others with the attitude of a tosser, you might think about departing under a priority category. If not stay in line, or as said ask really nicely and say thankyou.

(wiz may ONLY have 13 years in the industry but he has quite plainly got a better handle on it than others.....even if his spelling isn't as good as mine:} )

[TLAW]

Only 13 years? What a rank amateur ;)

Out of interest - are what point in this industry do your opinions become valid? When they are right or when you on the verge of turning to dust? I ask merely for information.

[the wizard of auz]

It doesn't really matter. Its all just a big game that sometimes pays the bills. :}

[Pass-A-Frozo]

You mean the bowser located here? :} http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/22566YZJUl/843899.jpg

[dude65]

Brett old mate
You can take heart in the fact that these macho wankers are a dieing breed in aviation. The airlines don't want them and neither does anyone alse. Their droopy moustache mentality just doesn't cut it anymore.

If you really want to see one in action ,just watch the Sunday night news. He'll usually be getting hosed out of what's left of his aircraft.

Edit time
Sorry bloke,I almost forgot: You can tell these guys from your average pilot because they regularily use to 2 most dangerous words in aviation. "WATCH THIS"