Air Cadets RAFVRT - Officer Selection Course

[Jinkster]

Just wondered if anyone had any pointers on the interviews at the wing and region board for Officer Selection.

Thanks in advance!

:)

[chevvron]

Just be yourself on the wing board. If you're invited to region, it usually means the decision's already been made.

Chevvron Flt Lt RAFVR(T) Retd.

[Postman Plod]

May be worth having a look at:

www.aircadetcentral.net/forums

I know that some people find it a useful resource (others dont!) and has a fairly high proportion of staff on it, so you will hopefully get some sound advice there!

I understand that while previously the Region board was almost a formality, it has now become a fairly thorough grilling depending on your Region. Certainly ScotNI has a large failure rate at Region from what I understand

[BluntM8]

Firstly, the very best of luck to you Jinkster.

I understand that while previously the Region board was almost a formality, it has now become a fairly thorough grilling depending on your Region.

Could that be partially attributable to an attitude problem on the board? I recall having met a great many more VR(T) Officers than regulars who think they're very special and have felt the need to tell everyone about it. I got heartily sick of "plastic" Flt Lts preaching at us regular JOs in the mess I lived in over the summer. It seems to me that these people would have relished being on an interview board as an opportunity to show how very clever they were and how hard they could be.

On the other hand, I have met several very competant, professional and dedicated VR(T) Officers who I very much enjoyed working with.

Blunty

[VigilantPilot]

Which Region are you in?

[Jinkster]

North region.

Background - joined cadets at 13yrs old. Went up to staff cadet. Left at 18 to do fATPL modular route. Back now as a Civilian Instructor and have been for about 10months or so...

:)

[Postman Plod]

BluntM8, indeed so! Can be a case of "if the face fits" or "we need the uniforms" at Wing level sometimes. I guess this is where having an independent figure outside the Wing structure actually carrying out the final interview at least provides some kind of quality review.

However this has to be balanced out somewhat by the fact that:

a) the ATC / VRT is NOT the RAF (anyone trying to pretend they have been through the same kind of selection and training as a regular, or preaches to you in the mess, deserves a slap - unless of course they have been a regular in a past life), therefore our Regional Commandants should not be comparing us to regulars, and expect us to meet exactly the same standards! We should have different standards, and we should be made aware of exactly what they are and why! We run squadrons of air minded teenagers, not stations with jets and bombs, and associated personnel and support! Yes, I have a commission, but I'm certainly not pretending to be the next Guy Gibson...

b) the ATC needs staff desperately! The recruitment drive last year seems to have been a complete failure, however I understand that some Regional Commandants are rejecting perfectly suitable candidates on criteria that really should not have anything to do with selection to become a VRT Officer!

[BluntM8]

Plod,

I'm not 100% sure that I agree and I'd be happy to get into a discussion on the occasionally fractious relationship between VRT and Regular Officers but it's wouldn't really help Jinkster with his interview, so I'll leave it be :D

All I would say is that, from a regular's point of view, the best VR(T)s are the ones who you wind up in the bar after work with!

Blunty

[wub]

Jinkster,

Make sure you know something about the equipment operated by and the role of the RAF stations within your region.

Current affairs knowledge relating to defence is useful as is an understanding of what major defence procurements are in the offing. With your cv I'm pretty sure you won't have a problem.
Good luck.

[NightFlit]

a) the ATC / VRT is NOT the RAF (anyone trying to pretend they have been through the same kind of selection and training as a regular, or preaches to you in the mess, deserves a slap - unless of course they have been a regular in a past life), therefore our Regional Commandants should not be comparing us to regulars, and expect us to meet exactly the same standards! We should have different standards, and we should be made aware of exactly what they are and why! We run squadrons of air minded teenagers, not stations with jets and bombs, and associated personnel and support! Yes, I have a commission, but I'm certainly not pretending to be the next Guy Gibson...



:eek: An officer in the Training Branch of the RAF VR receives exactly the same commission from the Queen as a Regular or a RAuxAF Officer. You receive the same privilages of a commission, and you are expected to ahear it.

If you are a RAFVR(T) Officer with that attitude, then you should hand it back immediately! Just remember that the RAFVR(T) is not just held by staff of the ATC!

[Postman Plod]

Nightflit, how about we do as BluntM8 says and take it "outside"? Seems fair to keep this as a help thread. Shame I cant move my previous post, but hey...

http://www.pprune.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2468693

[NightFlit]

lol...there ain't no need to start a new forum. Whether you agree or not, it was a statement of fact.

Shall we say it is a form of help, as it takes him into his interview with the correct mindset!

[Postman Plod]

Indeed so! :)

Jinkster - First impressions count! Be courteous, address the board as sir / ma'am, and be clear in what you are saying. Know your Wing and Region structure - including the civilian side of the wing. Know where the ACO sits in the RAF hierarchy, and know the structure of the ACO from top to bottom. Know about the finances - where the money comes from and where it goes to. Know whats in your ACPs and APs, and which ones to look in to find out regulations, training guides, etc. Know why you want to go into uniform, and what you think you can give the Corps. As has been said, a knowledge of current affairs and military operations will be required - especially RAF related. If you believe something, and are being challegened on it, stand your ground, and be able to fight your corner.

Just remember that the board isn't there to trip you up though - just play to your strengths, be open and honest, and say what you think!

[Funkletrumpet]

An officer in the Training Branch of the RAF VR receives exactly the same commission from the Queen as a Regular or a RAuxAF Officer.

I will always remember a member of the aco telling me that after thay had completed 1 week of training and our iot was half way through and they demanded we call them sir!! That went down like a cup of cold sick...

[PhoenixDaCat]

Jinkster, I've sent you a PM containing my email address. Please feel free to get in touch and I'll offer up my advice through that medium.

[BluntM8]

I will always remember a member of the aco telling me that after thay had completed 1 week of training and our iot was half way through and they demanded we call them sir!! That went down like a cup of cold sick...

Oh yes, that and many other experiences of the like....all too familiar.

Especially remember the behemouth of a fatty with Union Flags on his CS95 and tactical rank slides with a little VRT embroidered in so as not to be shiny in a combat situation. He latter was heard to remark how he was lucky to never be eligable for OOA on his VR(T) commission! :yuk:

[AerBabe]

Jinkster - the fact you've been a cadet will be a major advantage. You should already know names, dates and places. To add to what has already been said, know where the UK and overseas bases are, what happens at them, what aircraft we have (plus what's going out and what's coming in), which aircraft are in which group (make sure you get the names of the groups complete and correct, and know what's on the horizon for them), what values an officer should have (read ACP 1), what you can do as an officer that you can't as a CI, what roles you will be taking on if you get the commission, the differences between the training cadets receive and what they would learn in the RAF ...

The list goes on; just cover all the bases in as much depth as you can. When you get to the interview, say "Sir" and "Ma'am" a lot, and treat it like an interview for a job in a very old-fashioned company.

[chevvron]

It always puzzled me why VRT's for ATC squadrons did a 1 week IOT course (which I think is what VGS officers do too) while those for CCF/RAF Sections did 2 weeks. Surely it's exactly the same commision isn't it?

[Postman Plod]

Do CCF officers do the Initial and Senior courses in one go perhaps? Or do their employes just give them more time off, as its all school related anyway?

[Cat5 in the Hat]

It always puzzled me why VRT's for ATC squadrons did a 1 week IOT course (which I think is what VGS officers do too) while those for CCF/RAF Sections did 2 weeks. Surely it's exactly the same commision isn't it?

VGS Officers do the same curse as ATC Sqn. The CCF course is also 1 week, but is often held seperately, due to a slightly differing content. However, mixed ATC/CCF courses do take place.

Regardless, the course is called OIC (Officers' Initial Course), not IOT! The commision is the same, although for non-CCF the requirement to wear leather elbow patches is removed.

[chevvron]

Although it could tax some people, I think calling it a curse is a bit extreme!

[PhoenixDaCat]

I did a joint course, and i believe that the intention is to do more joint courses. Only 1 hour of the course sees the ATC and CCF students being separated. The CCF guys go off to learn about specifics to the CCF whilst the ATC lot get instructed on mess etiquette

[Crashed&Burned]

Never been clear about the difference between CCF (RAF Section) and 'normal' VR(T) apart from the obvious school focus for CCF.

[chevvron]

That explains a lot; so CCF VRT Officers don't get tutored in mess etiquette; just confirms something we've always suspected!! (Only joking - honest)

[tmmorris]

Never been clear about the difference between CCF (RAF Section) and 'normal' VR(T) apart from the obvious school focus for CCF.

Not much, really, though on the CCF OIC they don't spend time teaching methods of instruction (sucking eggs) and spend more time on drill as few CCF officers have any military background. The course is otherwise mostly leadership skills and admin (one guy did fail on my course on the leadership tasks, so it's not quite a pushover).

Otherwise the main difference is that the CCF 'belongs to' the headmaster i.e. he decides who does CCF (with HQAC's approval, natch) and who doesn't. Actually most are desperate for volunteers, like ATC, so this doesn't make much difference in practice. Also we have been around longer than ATC...

Chevvron - we get the same 'how to behave in the mess' booklet as everyone else, I believe... though I take your point, sadly.

Tim

[monkey_boy]

Hello All!

Does anybody have an electronic copy of that booklet, or know what the title on the front page is or know where I can get hold of one please?

Thanks in advance.

MB

[Cat5 in the Hat]

Hello All!

Does anybody have an electronic copy of that booklet, or know what the title on the front page is or know where I can get hold of one please?

Thanks in advance.

MB

It's called Customs, Etiquette & Social Responsibility, or CESR for short. Try OASC ot ATF for a copy.

[Pontius Navigator]

Our CCF OC saw service. Even shot down an aircraft when he was on a flak battery.

Rumour had it, one os ours.:}