have i buggered eveything up?

[jac000]

Hi, not sure if this is the right place for this but I'd like to ask anyway. I appreciate that not many of you will be lawyers but here's what happened.

Got drunk mainly, had a bit of a wee in the street, along comes plod and is going to fine myself and my friend. I, in my wisdom, thought the best way for my plod girlfriend not to find out is to bolt. I did, got about 100 yards and then thought this is daft and stopped and waited for them. Not sure if that was entirely sensible either given the lead I had but its done now.

I THEN tried to give a false name before realising that was also stupid and owning up. Had a wallet with ID in it anyway so wasn't going to get very far with that idea.

Got charged with indecent exposure, and trying to pervert the cause of justice and I think resisting arrest not sure.

Never been in bother before and feeling pretty stupid. I know this'll probably show up on any disclosure scotland checks I have to do in the future (next 5 years anyway). Anyone know if this has completely screwed me, bit worried.

Ta, jac

Got to decide whether to tell my girlfriend now or not. These things have a way of getting back to folk you don't want them to. Different force but still. I'll have to figure that out by myself!

[scroggs]

You must tell your girlfriend. She will find out anyway; it might as well be from you. She's going to think you pretty stupid (as do I), but that's something you'll just have to deal with.

I presume what you really want to know is what effect this will have on your chances of getting employment as a pilot? Well, there's no doubt that your good judgement will be called into question. However, while what you did was not very clever, you're an amateur on the scale of silly stuntmen - and there are many pilots who you may meet at interview who have similar stories to tell... Many will not give you too hard a time about it if they are convinced that you have learned from your stupidity.

It is unlikely that any offence you may be convicted of as a result of this incident would prevent you from getting an airside pass. While the police may have threatened you with the charges you mention, I suspect that the CPS would be unlikely to proceed unless the event was more serious than you paint it. You are more likely to get a caution or, at worst, be 'bound over' than you are to be convicted of attempting to pervert the course of justice.

For more information on what may or may not affect airside pass applications, do a search here. This was covered in some detail a few months ago.

You've been a stupid prat. Tell those who need to know. Let them take the mickey (you know they will!), and learn from it.

Scroggs

[bjkeates]

jac,

Have a look at this (http://www.ctcaviation.com/pdf/040202_crimCRCbasic.pdf). It's a pdf file, linked from CTC's selection details page (it's actually a document issued by the Department for Transport), detailing all convictions which would prevent you from getting an airside ID pass. I'm not sure if this applies to all organisations, but it might give you some idea of how serious a mess you've got yourself in.

[scroggs]

Yes, it does apply to all organisations. All employees needing an airside pass must apply to Disclosure Scotland for a statement of convictions. This statement is passed via your employer to the pass issuer (usually BAA), who will issue or deny the pass as appropriate. This has all been covered before.

Scroggs

[Martin1234]

Ha-ha! I must say that it was stupid to actually stop when you had such a lead. If you already commited the offence of trying to outrun the police, why not trying to get away? It's like paying for a lottery ticket but never check if you've got the winning number.

[strafer]

You are a bit of an arse aren't you? Still you're only 22 I suppose.

I would imagine (and we only have your version of events) that the police would have a fairly hard time successfully prosecuting you for perverting the course of justice or indecent exposure. Get yourself a good lawyer and say that you'll accept a caution for breach of the peace in regard to your inability to use toilets.

I doubt that there are any pilots out there who haven't peed in the street when they were younger (In France, it's compulsory).

Most important - don't do it again. Getting done once whilst pissed may be seen as a rite of passage, if it's habitual, employers may think you have an alcohol control problem.

[waxytudes]

well jac000 I have a similar question to you. A year ago at uni I got very drunk and acted very stupidly and ended up with arrested for burglary (nutri-grain bars and bread from a hotel kitchen). I woke up the next morning in a cell with a very hazy memory and ended up with a caution for burglary. I appologised to all involved and like I say received a caution not a conviction. Will this show up on a security check and if so how does it affect my chances? I was told by the police the only people to whom I'll ever have to disclose a caution is the police themselves if I ever get arrested again (which I hasten to add I won't). Does anyone know whether I've maybe 'buggered everything up' as well (for the next 4 years at least - until it's erased) or whether what I was told by the police is correct?

yours in shame,

waxy

[scroggs]

Criminal Conviction - A Problem? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204938&highlight=rehabilitation+of+offenders)

As I said, it's been covered before.

Scroggs

[moley]

You cannot even afford a caution if you want to be an airline pilot, bloke I did ATPL's with was arrested over a minor charge which he didnt do anyway and our training Org had to insist he didnt get one even after the charges were dropped!

[maxdrypower]

Jac you may not wanna hear from me , but as a serving cop as far as the charge goes dont worry They will never pursue the perverting , its should have been obstruct police at the most , the usual offence for pixxing in the street is S5 public order disorderley behaviour . Unfortunately if you have been charged then you are no longer eligible for a caution you have to attend court and if convicted you will have a criminal record that you will have to disclose to any employer . It is suprising you were not cautioned in the first place as if you admit the offence and have no previous convictions or cautions then you are entitled to one these offences are also pursued these days by way of fixed penalty tickets. If the facts are as you say I would plead not guilty they will never puruse the perverting and for the exposure they have to porve you intentionally exposed your genitals and you intended that someone would see them and be caused alarm or distress , so unless you waved your tackle at the cops you were just having a pixx there was none of that intent there . leave it with you at the end of the day be guided by the court solicitor if you are not gonna plead not guilty say youll plead to a S5 they will in all likelihood drop the perverting and you ll get a small fine , but it is still a conviction you wont get much more if your found guilty on a not guitly plea , but if your telling the truth the whole truth then I wouldnt have the job risk it

[waxytudes]

MaxDryPower you seem to know what you're talking about... is what moley said likely to be true? Does a caution (see my post above) show up on a check? It doesn't count as a conviction does it?

Thanks

[maxdrypower]

Waxy unfortunately your rock and hard place here . Your prospective employer would normally apply to the Criminal records Bureau . The information they give is based on that which is on the Police National Computer . Cautions are not held on that database. However for certain occupations they can apply for an enhanced check . This is then sent to the relevant force areas in which you have lived , hence the give us your last 10 years worth of addresses on your application form . This check would reveal a caution , this is primarily used for occupations like schoolteachers things to do with kids etc etc however at the moment since 9/11 it is more than likely that an enhanced check will be carried out by an airline but again it is down to each individual airline .
At the end of the day you are best disclosing it to them as some employers will take you on and send off for the checks after youve been employed , results take weeks and the last thing you would want is to be finishing the ground side of your TR only to be hauled into the chiefs office to be dismissed on grounds of dishonesty and integrity (got you by the balls on that one ) this would then be stapled to every job application and cv you send to airlines.
In my experience provided its not an honestly drink driving or perverted caution you should be ok but then how many other applications will be clean ones? that may be a consideration . But no it does not count as a conviction

[moley]

If I were you,get hold of someone from a ground school who is in the know(Jane and Keith @Cabair,Bournemouth) have recently had first hand experience and could put you straight..Certainly know that all background checks are done by special branch for anyone starting ATPL's.
Hope its of help and good luck...

[jac000]

Thanks for the thoughts chaps. I'll just have to see what happens I suppose. Its done now, gotta live with it. Told my girlfriend, 2 1/2 years down the pan. Quality.

Anyway, maxdrypower, on the contrary you are the type of person I wanted to hear from. I'd stopped and buttoned up when they came along, so definitley no intent of any of those things you said about. The rest of the story is how it happened. I (used to) get stories from my gf all the time about drunk fannies so I thought I'd just stop and try not to be anymore of one. Why I then tried to give a false name god only knows. Still can't believe it got so out of hand.

Right, sorry, I'll leave the forum be for the less tw4tish amongst us.

jac

[BitMoreRightRudder]

jac

She finished with you? Hard lines mate, and good luck in the future, hope it all gets sorted out.

[mcgoo]

bad news, sorry to hear that, one thing I would say though if your girfriend has thrown away 2 and a half years because you had a pi55 in the street, you're probably better off without her, we all make mistakes and are all only human, though some peole would profess otherwise!

[Maude Charlee]

Airside passes are issued after a basic disclosure only, not an enhanced check. Therefore, cautions are not of a concern in this respect.

[maxdrypower]

That is correct but we are not talking about airside passes here we are talking about being paid a nice wage to fly fare playing persons around the world in £45 million quid missiles , the checks airlines carry out are for their own security and that of their passengers and the nation in which they represent .I have checked today and BA,thomas cook , my travel certainly wont entertain anyone who cannot pass an enhanced check . On most airfields airseid passes are not difficult to obtain but maybe this another failing in the system . Although I dont se how someone with a caution for common assault or shoplifting is a generic risk to passenger a/c however possession of cocaine/heroin maybe ????
But like I said each airline has to make its own policies in relation this subject and withholding information from them that they are perfectly capable of getting is asking for trouble really , whether they check or not is besides the point , they have the ability to do so so toeing the line might be the best idea

[Maude Charlee]

Not all airlines conduct enhanced checks. My employer certainly didn't. Most will simply follow up your references, and leave the ball ache of Disclosure Scotland checks to the airport authority, although your employer is likely to co-ordinate the paperwork and keep a copy of the check. As I said, the check is not necessarily for the employer, but you definitely will not get an airside pass for flight crew in the UK without one.

[waxytudes]

Well Max what you say regarding BA etc not giving you the light of day if you can't pass an enhanced criminal records check really put the willies up me so I decided to check myself, and on BA's recruitment pages I read the following re criminal record checks for flight crew:

"What do I have to do to obtain a Criminal Record Check?
Should you be successful in your application and the role requires a criminal record check at Basic Disclosure level, you will receive a letter offering you the position, subject to the receipt of satisfactory references and background checks and a pack containing:..."

and further re cautions:

"PLEASE NOTE: Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not considered to be criminal convictions and so are not covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. Cautions, reprimands and final warnings become 'spent' immediately."

So now I'm not so panicked but I'd like to know where you got your information? I need to be sure about these things before I splash out a vast quantity of money.

cheers all

[scroggs]

Waxy, Max is a policeman, not an airline recruiting expert. While his advice was no doubt given in good faith, it is essentially incorrect. Please read the thread I linked to in an earlier post here for a full explanation of the procedure for the checking of criminal records by airlines and by the BAA, and information about what level of disclosure is required. You will find all the answers you need. If you are unsure about anything having read that thread, please come back to me.

Scroggs