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colmac747
9th Apr 2006, 10:28
Now personally, I have no objection whatever to other people opting to do nothing whatever on whichever day-of-the-week they choose, and for whatever reason they happen to make that choice...In fact, I often choose to do nothing myself! But do I seek to force others to 'observe' MY choices with me? No. I don't! :ugh:

So how on earth, can locking children's swings and stopping others using ferries contribute anything to society? What would happen if seven groups of people chose to 'do nothing' on seven different days? :suspect:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4857884.stm

lexxity
9th Apr 2006, 10:33
What if you are on your holidays (http://www.scottishaccommodationindex.com/uistsouth.php) there? Do you get bed and no breakfast on sundays?

Farmer 1
9th Apr 2006, 10:41
Makes me think of the woman who asked her priest if it was all right for her husband and her to have sexual intercourse on a Sunday.

"Yes," he said, "As long as you don't enjoy it."

colmac747
9th Apr 2006, 10:42
Funnily enough, Lexxy, my brother regularly heads to the Western Isles for a bit of extreme fishing:confused: and says the locals there do nothing but drink and get pissed on a Sunday..might not be so bad after all.:p

Solid Rust Twotter
9th Apr 2006, 10:44
As long as they wear their undies on their heads the other days of the week and say "Wibble!" to soft vegetables to comply with my religious preferences...:hmm:

Whirlygig
9th Apr 2006, 11:13
but drink and get pissed on a Sunday
So surely someone must be working behind the bar :confused:

Cheers

Whirls

Lon More
9th Apr 2006, 11:38
I remember trying to buy some beer in a supermarket on a Sunday about 20 years ago, "We'll have none of your papistry up here".

Conversation with a Wee Free;
"Do you drink coffee?"
"No. Coffee has been chemically treated, so it's against God's Law to drink it."
"Are you allowed to dance?"
"No. Dancing is sinfull."
"Are you allowed to have sexual relationships?"
"Oh yes. Sexual relationships between a man and a woman is allowed. As long as it is for procreation."
What about kinky sex?"
"?"
"Different positions. Standing up for instance."
"Standing up. Oh no! That could lead to dancing."

BDiONU
9th Apr 2006, 12:43
What if you are on your holidays (http://www.scottishaccommodationindex.com/uistsouth.php) there? Do you get bed and no breakfast on sundays?
You get B&B but a friend of mine went fishing there. He got up very early on the Sunday morning and went off fishing. When he got back his case was packed and on the doorstep. When he knocked and asked what was going on he was told that he broke the sabbath by fishing on a Sunday and he was not welcome to stay there any more!

BD

eal401
9th Apr 2006, 12:59
So how on earth, can locking children's swings and stopping others using ferries contribute anything to society?
Never mind the 21st century, it looks like that lot haven't been dragged into the 20th yet.

They are like those who campaign against things like Jerry Springer: The Opera etc. Can't comprehend the concept of freedom of choice.

colmac747
9th Apr 2006, 13:16
So surely someone must be working behind the bar :confused:




Bottles upon bottles of spirits in the house, i'd assume:8

Davaar
9th Apr 2006, 13:20
A few years back they took action against one of their communicants for an ecclesiastical offence, in that he had attended the RC funeral of an RC colleague. The deceased had provoked this funeral by dying.

Each of the parties relevant and material, the deceased and the offender, was a Lord of Session and Senator of the College of Justice.

niknak
9th Apr 2006, 13:48
In a previous life I lived in the middle bit of the Western Isles, life was pretty relaxed, the locals were a great bunch of people who'd do anything to help and it was generally a good place to be.

However, go north or to the far south and life ceased to exsist for fear of being excommunicated and struck down by a bolt from above.

I recollect on one occassion in the north when a visiting tourist mistakenly took his 4x4 onto the beach and very quickly got into trouble, within minutes locals were out and used every concievable method to assist and recover his vehicle, whilst ensuring his family were looked after.
Later that week, on the Sunday, another tourist did exactly the same thing on the same beach. He was able to get his family to safety, but no one would assist because in their eyes he'd sinned by being out on a Sunday.

Cyclic Hotline
9th Apr 2006, 14:02
Is there any record of anyone ever being struck by a thunderbolt for breaking the sabbath?

When I was a child the same thing was going on, although fortunately my family didn't subscribe to any of this extreme piety. Locals would simplly do what they were doing out of sight of those who might judge them, but it didn't alter the treatment of those poor outsiders who showed up and broke the sabbath! The most intolerant people in the community were the ones trying to convince each other they were more religious than the other. The different brands of church did an excellent job of dividing and polarising the community in pursuit of their own interests.

Thankfully, in most places the world has moved on and people are free to observe the sabbath as they feel fit. I have no problem with anybody observing anything they want. I just have a problem when they wish to impose their own interpretation on me!

Farmer 1
9th Apr 2006, 14:20
I wonder if this can be proved once and for all. I plan to go now and do a bit of work. If I complete it succesfully and safely I will return and let you know.
















There you are - job done and I'm still here to tell the

G-CPTN
9th Apr 2006, 14:37
How many vicars get struck down? They must be pushing the envelope.

Davaar
9th Apr 2006, 15:03
Some may remember the movie "Whisky Galore" (in the US, "Tight Little Island"), early 1950s. During the war there is no whisky to be had. In the fog, a steamer goes on the rocks with a full cargo of whisky. Everyone on the island rushes to pillage, sorry salvage, the ship.

Then they remember that in a few minutes it will be The Sabbath.

Salvage operation stops dead. Nothing moves. Great anxiety lest ship sink. Next day, just before ship slides off the rocks the rich treasure is rescued. With the whisky, civility returns to civilisation. James Robertson Justice, Basil (Radford?), the wonderful Joan Greenwood, and even Sir Compton Mackenzie (who wrote the book) in a cameo as the ship's captain.

G-CPTN
9th Apr 2006, 15:05
Believe the story was based on a factual event.
http://www.thewhiskygalore.com/legend.htm

Gainesy
9th Apr 2006, 15:43
Not a particularly good place to open a Betting Shop then?:hmm:

parabellum
10th Apr 2006, 00:24
Related before here on PPRuNe I believe.

Dirty wet night, air ambulance stand-by pilot in Glasgow gets the call to go to Stornaway to pick up a sick female having child birth problems who will be accompanied by her doctor and a nurse and take them to Inverness. BN2 departs and fights its way up the West coast to Stornaway, collects patient and co., flys to Inverness, bouncing around in all the crap weather over the mountains, returns to Glasgow in time for breakfast.
Pilot happens to mention to the company CEO, a man who had forgotten more about aviation and Scotland than most people ever knew, that he was surprised that there were not better facilities on the island or close by.
"Oh there are", came the reply, "About eleven miles south of the airport is one of the best equipped operating theatres staffed by some of the most competent people you could hope to find, unfortunately the nursing staff are all Nuns and the doctors are all Catholics!"
Yup, the sick mother was a member of The Free Church so hers and her baby's lives had to be put at risk for religious reasons, nothing else, and they were all Christians, Nuns, doctors, mother etc. etc.:(

Davaar
10th Apr 2006, 01:40
Related before here on PPRuNe I believe. (

parabellum, I am not a member of or adherent to the Roman Catholic Church or the Free Church of Scotland, or any other for that matter, and I am not looking to be contentious, but I should like to be sure on this: Do you know of your own knowledge that the story you report is true?

parabellum
10th Apr 2006, 10:37
Yes Davaar, to the best of my knowledge, totally true. The only doubt in my mind was, were the Nuns Catholics or just not Free Church of Scotland. In case I have confused anyone, it was the Free Church mother and party who insisted on going to Inverness.

Davaar, please check your PMs. Thanks.

nutcracker43
10th Apr 2006, 10:53
Cyclic Hotline

QUOTE Is there any record of anyone ever being struck by a thunderbolt for breaking the sabbath?

Yes there is...in Texas a number of years ago some fellows were fishing for bass and driking beer...all this on a sunday with the odd Cb about.

They were discussing the rights and wrongs of fishing with a CBb approaching and on a sunday too. One seemingly, stood up, and giving the 'bird' yelled: God, do your worst. A bolt came out the sky and hit the mouthy one...he was killed, naturally...other fellow damaged.

Funny when I read it but tragic for the friends and family.

NC43

Davaar
10th Apr 2006, 13:03
Thank you, parabellum, and for the PM. I accept the story wholly but sadly. It is not always thus.

The Reformation came to some Islands, not to others, but good relations in mamny remained between the different communions.

These continued over here. In the 19th century one Prebyterian church in Ontario had problems between the minister and the Session. Word reached the Presbytery, which sent a Commission of Inquiry to investigate and report. The Commission discovered that everything had been fixed long since "by the bishop", a bit of a poser since the P's do not have bishops. Turned out that the parties had handed the quarrel over to the local RC bishop, he had cracked heads together, solved the problem. All satisfied. Next problem?

Another case concerned a Presbyterian minister in Montreal who was offended by his Session, and quit. Worse than that, he quit to become an Anglican! Shock! Horror! The Presbytery tried him on charges of "frivolity" in that he did become an Anglican (put that in your pipe and smoke it, Rev Mr Keef), and convicted, not that it mattered much any more snce he was long gone.

The years rolled on, and the ex-minister became the Anglican Primate in Canada. A local Presbyterian church was rebuilding and looking for donations. A delegation attended on His Grace, who received them with courtesy.
They explained their mission.
Alas, said the Archbishop, I have a history with the Presbyterians, perhaps you did not know?
Oh Yes, they knew all right, but it was all long ago and forgotten.
Forgotten by you, perhaps, said the Great Man, but not by me. I could not in good conscience contribute to the building of a Presbyterian church.
Great apologies. Sorry to have taken your time. Delegation were donning hats and coats, when the Archbishop stopped them at the door.
But what is happening to the old Presbyterian church?
Oh, we are going to knock that down.
Aha! And how much will that cost?
A lot. Estimates are so and so.
Well now, while I cannot contribute to building a Presbyterian church, I think I can contribute to knocking one down! Yes, I believe I can.
Archbishop hands over cheque.

When the First Presbyterian Church started services in Montreal in the 18th century, one of the RC Orders let them use their premises. The big problem was that the stern Presbyterian moralists could not accept this free (not from that Papist lot). The kindly Fathers could not bring themselves to accept payment (not from that bunch of heretics).

What to do?

It was solved by a gift of expensive wine for, as they all agreed, sacramental not worldly use.

For my own part, when I was deadly ill I was admitted at almost no notice at all to a hospital run by an RC Order of Sisters. I was in their hands for several weeks, several operations, and emerged at the far end weighing about 120 lbs. I got to know the Mother Superior and also Sister Bernadine quite well. I commented that they were RC, and I protestant, but such life as remained to me I owed wholly to them. Still, I said, they had taken me in with no questions: "But you were sick!", they said, "We are here for people who are sick".

And yet on another thread, many find it hard to recognise Christ when they see Him. It is good that many can preserve difference without bigotry.

radeng
10th Apr 2006, 14:22
Davaar,
About 30 odd years ago, my brother was still at university, very hard up, with a wife and two toddlers. They were living in a borrowed cottage in Northern Ireland in a very (some would say bigoted) protestant community, and my sister in law is catholic from Eire. Even so, the locals were very kind to them with gifts of clothing, food and so on, but it was always 'for the bairns', even when the clothes were perfectly good adult sizes!
At times, one is amazed at the depths humans can sink to, and then similarly by how much they can rise.
One presumes, by the way, the strict sabbatarians don't object to the medevac flights on a Sunday. From what I read, some of those would appear to be done in really hairy conditions, demanding real airmanship, and a willingness to put one's own life in danger. Like lifeboats, but they get more publicity.

tony draper
10th Apr 2006, 14:37
I recal seemingly not so long ago when every corner shop round here had a list pinned up somewhere prominent lising the things one could or could not buy on a Sunday,one could buy a loaf bread but not half a stone of potatoes,a packet ciggies but not a bottle of Tizer and other such insanities,dunno how closely the shopkeeper kept to this law mind you,or indeed if these laws are still in force.
Just thinking perhaps its just as well they int,otherwise in the present climate we would also have to honour all the other religious groups we are now prey to,we would probably have four of five sabaths a week now,as a day of rest seems to be common currency among those middle eastern philosophies.
What I mostly recal about working on a Sunday was one got double time.:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
10th Apr 2006, 14:47
Sunday Trading laws were a mess in the 70s.
Several out-of-town warehouses set up selling carpets and furniture, but you had to buy £200 worth of veg (a small bag) and got the carpet or furniture 'free'.
Apart from the current restrictions on premises over a certain ground area (!) I believe you can sell ANYTHING at any time on a Sunday.
Probably even sell your sole . . .

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/sunday.htm

The Order also repealed the restriction contained in section 26 of the Revenue Act 1889 on the sale of methylated spirits between 10pm on Saturday and 8am on the following Monday.

Farmer 1
10th Apr 2006, 14:52
Probably even sell your sole . . .

Until recently, if you wanted do buy one on a Sunday - a sole, that is - you couldn't do so in a fish & chip shop, but you could in a Chinese take-away.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

G-CPTN
10th Apr 2006, 14:58
Ah? Sole!

Here should follow an involved story about the correct pronunciation of Chinese names such as Zho . . . (which caused an irreverant outburst among my British colleagues when I finally 'got' it and announced "Ah! Zho! . . . ")

Davaar
10th Apr 2006, 15:38
Yes, radeng, as the movie put it many years ago, it is all Life's Roundabout. Not far from here is an orthodox s*n*g*g**. The faithful are not allowed to drive to services on the Sabbath, and to make the point very clear, the parking lot is closed off with chains in Saturdays. It is an expanse of emptiness. The faithful arrive on foot.

Of course, for about a mile around, you cannot park in the streets because .... Oh! Enough already!

tony draper
10th Apr 2006, 15:51
There's a large Orthodox Jewish population around my bailywick, in the olden days one used to be on a good earner on one's paper round on a saturday lighting fires turning lights on and such,dunno what they do now,I would not invite any of this present generation of sprogs into my gaff thats for sure.
:cool:

Tired Old Man
10th Apr 2006, 16:08
Great scenery, good people, but time warp land in attitude. I was out one Sunday many years ago up there and came across a broken down car on a lonely road with some people on board. One of the passengers was the local minister on his way to church service, and the car had run out of petrol.
Not being a local I suggested going for fuel to be told the garage was closed, so I siphoned some from my tank to get them going.
There must be a moral in this story somewhere ?

My grandparents are from the Western Isles so I know what like this is there, it is a lifestyle mainly subsidised for by mainlanders but ask them to change no chance. The young people cannot wait to leave because of the lack of work and I suspect prevailing attitudes.
Just one old mans opinion. !

tony draper
10th Apr 2006, 16:22
Quite a lot of Stonaweigians went deep sea in my day,they all looks like clones of each other, tall gangley men slow of speech with huge hands,one is not implying anything here, just making a observation,the word consanguinity(sp?) has not been mentioned (oops one just did)
:rolleyes:

Davaar
10th Apr 2006, 17:42
My late father once preached as "supply" in the West Highlands. The reverend colleague for whom he was preaching mentioned that a family of Anglicans had recently moved into the neighbourhood, and occasionally made an appearance at Divine Worship.

Sunday was a day of torrential rain. Noah would have felt at home. Rain came down in West Highland sheets, and the only two at the church were my father and the beadle. 1100 AM drew ever closer. Not a soul in the kirk. Should they call the whole fixture off?

The beadle slacked off in ringing the bell. He and my father went to the door. There on the horizon was a couple, obviously intent on the Parish Kirk (Where else?).

The beadle spoke:

Ach meenister! You will haff to go on. It iss those Anglican pastards".

ExSimGuy
10th Apr 2006, 18:24
Neither the sale of alcohol nor shops whose trade or business consists wholly or mainly of the sale of alcohol are regulated by the Sunday Trading Act 1994. They are regulated by separate legislation, for which the Department of Culture, Media and Sport (http://www.culture.gov.uk/default.htm) is responsible.
So is getting p1ssed on a Sunday and issue of Culture, or Media or perhaps Sport:confused:

Lest ye complain . . . out this way, the shops all have to close for half an hour at dawn, half an hour at mid-day, half an hour at mid-afternoon, half an hour at sun-down, and half an hour after the end of the last closing:confused:

On Fridays, the mid-day closing is extended to 10 a.m. to 12:30. (I think it's "choir practice":E )

If a business is caught with the doors open during the "half an hour"s, the doors are chained and the staff led off to jankers by the local "half-an-hour observance" police. (who surely should not be on the street, but should be in the "Place of Worship of Half-an-Hours")

If you finish work just at sun-down and don't have any gas in the tank, you have to wait for half an hour for the gas station to re-open. As for the advertised "24-hour" supermarkets and chemist shops, that has to be a joke (5 half-hour closures a day makes it a 21.5-hour operation)

But at least it's simple - nothing gets done for half an hour, 5 times a day (except perhaps police speeed-traps:eek: )