HEATHROW VISITOR CENTRE TO CLOSE [Archive]

paulc

7th Apr 2006, 11:34

Also at the visitor centre the parking charges have gone up considerably to stop people parking there for a day for £7 rather than the short term car parks. A day at the visitor centre will now cost the same.

Most of the enthusiasts will again be forced to go elsewhere around the perimeter with the increase problems that will bring.

Suggest that whoever is doing this visit the likes of Manchester, Zurich, Dusseldorf, Munich, Geneva, Amsterdam and many others to see just how facilities for the public / enthusiasts are provided - they might learn something.

skiddyiom

7th Apr 2006, 12:23

The day the BAA provide decent observation facilities at their aiports will never come. All they aqre interested in is making money. Shops and parking are their priorities, not enthusiasts and casual visitors.

Although I have never been there, the fact that the visitor centre at LHR is South Facing put me off immediately. Taking pictures or "spotting" into the sun (if there is any!) is a non starter.

IF, and it's a big if, they do consider a replacement centre, then Southside somewhere in the vicinity of Myrtle Avenue would probably be better. However, as I have already said, I think the chances are zilch.

skiddy

foxile

7th Apr 2006, 12:39

It is a shame that some kind of 'secure' viewing facility couldn't have been incorporated into the new T5. But I agree BAA's interests are purely the bottom line and the short term view. Clearly they are not interested about certain aspects of PR that may not yeild immediate cash benefits. :=

Foxile

oldlag53

7th Apr 2006, 15:18

skiddyiom

7th Apr 2006, 15:27

Call me dumb (!) but I would have thought that it is in the BAA's interest to have somewhere that spectators can congregate and thus be 'controlled'. After all, nothing will stop people looking - and what about people who drop off travelling friends and relatives and want to 'wave them off' ??

Anyone remember the old days when not only was there a large spectator area, but at weekends a bloke used to sit in a little 'observation room' and commentate over the tannoy??

Eeeee, it's not like it used to be...

OK, you're dumb! :} Sorry, couldn't resist!:E

I know what you mean. It seems they'd rather tie up the security staff with investigating "lurkers" around the perimeter than make a modest sum with a dedicated viewing area.

Has anyone thought to actually ask them what their policy is re casual visitors, families seeing people off and enthusiasts? I ask because I'm a bit out of touch here! I know they are working for a "travelers only" airport but I cannot see how that will ever work.

skiddy

slingsby

7th Apr 2006, 17:52

Unfortunately spectators are a very low priority on BAA/HAL list of to-do items. Although the call for a dedicated spectators area is on-going, it will never be inside the airport due to security reasons. There is a minimum fence and screen height for all areas accessible to the public, so viewing would be through a glass/perspex fence. The cost for re-enhancing and making QB roof back into a viewing area runs into the high several hundred thousands of pounds. Not viable. Then the arguement is, that why should BAA spend so much money on enhancing and securing the spectator viewing areas, when so very little revenue is gained from it.
I'm sorry but there will be no viewing gallery inside any of LHR, also the cost of running the Visitor centre is too great for so few returns, so close it to the public and turn it into a training centre. Sound business decision.

Oh, by the way, it's not security who patrol the surrounding perimeter fence but the local police. I do recall several weeks ago whilst waiting for transport near the northside, a lonely solitary spectator was perched on a ladder taking innocent pictures of the aircraft. I remarked to my colleague that I didn't fancy his chances when PC plod see him up his ladder. Low and behold, minutes later an entire van load of them decended on him, and gave him a free lift away from the area. So no more climbing of ladders either. :-)

the_fish@blueyonder.

7th Apr 2006, 18:05

How would nI go about getting to the LHR Visitors Cente?

I remember in 2000 when me and my dad went for a day of spotting at LHR we looked for this centre but couldn't find it anywhere.

Is it easy to get to from one fo the tube stations near the airport, or indeed the airports stations?

I'd like to visit it before it closes and I'm down in London next week.

doublesix

7th Apr 2006, 18:17

Can you still spot from the car park roofs or are you moved before your car wheels stop turning?

Jordan D

7th Apr 2006, 22:25

Apologies for the error Gonzo. How does one get to this visitors centre before it closes, if you're going to Central Area by tube?

Jordan

Golf Charlie Charlie

8th Apr 2006, 03:51

Anyone remember the old days when not only was there a large spectator area, but at weekends a bloke used to sit in a little 'observation room' and commentate over the tannoy??

Not just at weekends in the summer - frequently on weekdays as well 10 am to 5 pm - ish. Am thinking mid-1970s, if not a little later. One thing I do recall was a guy who used to call any One-Eleven series 200 to 400 a "small BAC One-Eleven", while a 500 was just a "BAC One-Eleven". Fair enough, I guess.

When did the Queen's Building terrace close ? I was last there in 2002.

Gonzo

8th Apr 2006, 07:27

Jordan D, no need to apologise! :D

I would imagine that the bus that shuttles between Waterside, Central Area, Hatton Cross, T4 etc goes right past it on the peri road. I believe that the bus is free, but perhaps someone with more knowledge in this regard might help out......

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

8th Apr 2006, 07:33

My wife and are are avid spotters and I'm a past Heathrow employee.

Back in the 60s there were at least two commentators on the Roof Gardens, based in a well-equipped box overlooking the apron on the airside of the Queen's Building. Between commentaries they played popular music over the PA syste - hence my love of Glenn Miller and Mantovani!!! I got to know Stan Little and Flo Kingdon through telephoning them for registration numbers when I saw anything interesting arrive. Stan (little by name, little by build) was an avid spotter who introduced me to Air Britain. Flo' was not a spotter but always willing to help. Stan passed on many years ago but Flo' is still alive and well, although long since retired from working at Heathrow.

"Spectators" who erect ladders are surely asking for trouble. My wife and I have spent many hours standing close to the 27R threshold, spotting and photographing aircraft with no problems at all. We park our car on a convenient grassy patch and police and BAA security vehicles have passed us in their dozens with no hint of any objection to what we were doing. Guess they view two old codgers as no-risk.

Sheep fancier

8th Apr 2006, 22:43

Unfortunately spectators are a very low priority on BAA/HAL list of to-do items. Although the call for a dedicated spectators area is on-going, it will never be inside the airport due to security reasons. There is a minimum fence and screen height for all areas accessible to the public, so viewing would be through a glass/perspex fence. The cost for re-enhancing and making QB roof back into a viewing area runs into the high several hundred thousands of pounds. Not viable. Then the arguement is, that why should BAA spend so much money on enhancing and securing the spectator viewing areas, when so very little revenue is gained from it.
I'm sorry but there will be no viewing gallery inside any of LHR, also the cost of running the Visitor centre is too great for so few returns, so close it to the public and turn it into a training centre. Sound business decision.
Oh, by the way, it's not security who patrol the surrounding perimeter fence but the local police. I do recall several weeks ago whilst waiting for transport near the northside, a lonely solitary spectator was perched on a ladder taking innocent pictures of the aircraft. I remarked to my colleague that I didn't fancy his chances when PC plod see him up his ladder. Low and behold, minutes later an entire van load of them decended on him, and gave him a free lift away from the area. So no more climbing of ladders either. :-)

And what *exactly* did he do wrong, climb a ladder to take a photograph of an aircraft, or something slightly more serious?

SF

LB1985

9th Apr 2006, 00:48

Apologies for the error Gonzo. How does one get to this visitors centre before it closes, if you're going to Central Area by tube?
Jordan

Jump on one of the buses that goes along Bath Road (the 140, for example) at the Central Bus Station. I think you need to get off roughly near McDonalds, and then cross the road. It's quite easy to find. :)

Amos Keeto

9th Apr 2006, 19:35

BAA couldn't care less about visitors or enthusiasts! The person I feel so sorry for is the Mach 3/Aviation Retail Direct shop that sells everything any enthusiast could want. First the roof gardens were closed and Mach 3 were forced to close their shop there and now the Visitors Centre is closed and their second shop has been forced to close! Is it really so expensive and difficult to make an official viewing area on the approach somewhere, up-sun? They would make a lot of money out of it if it was sensibly thought out?:ugh:

LB1985

9th Apr 2006, 21:34

sensibly thought out

You have quite clearly forgotten we are talking about BAA here! :E

BRISTOLRE

10th Apr 2006, 08:33

i think if they did it properly and had a shop and cafe they could probably generate substantial revenues at a "premier" world airport.
It wouldnt be just enthusiasts that visit the facility. Meeters/greeters and those with time to kill between flights - you used to see them all the time on the Queens Building. Something to take the kids to at half term as well....
Sounds like a sound business case to me.

PaperTiger

10th Apr 2006, 16:06

They would make a lot of money out of it if it was sensibly thought out?:ugh:Which is the reason the Visitor's Centre was/is a flop. Although someone must have had a Good Thought at one time about providing such a facility, the implementation was badly done - double-glass, facing South etc. - such that it attracted few repeat customers. (I suspect the 'someone' no longer works for BAA !). Despite promises to 'look into' both LHR and LGW, I do not expect to see any facilities of any kind. Much more fun chasing spotters around the perimeter :hmm:

Amos Keeto

10th Apr 2006, 18:21

You're all absolutely right and I wrote to the BAA PR office about it, only to receive a 'stock answer' in that the Government advised that all public viewing areas be closed on security grounds. The stupid thing about all this is that they don't think logically. Okay, the roof gardens at Heathrow on Terminal 2 and the Queens Building were wonderful viewing areas and could possibly be used by a terrorist to attack an airliner, but do you really think they could do that surrounded by lots of photographers and spotters?:confused: Did they consult any of the hoards that used to gather up there to see what the alternative could be...NO! So they build this useless 'Visitors Centre' completely in the wrong place. If I was given the task, I'll tell you where I would build it - the grass area at the end of Myrtle Avenue on the approachto 27L. If you don't know where I'm talking about, you are obviously not a Heathrow regular! An alternative would be to knock down the small white sheds between the BA Engineering Base and the main runway approach, both locations Up-Sun and exactly where photographers/spotters have stood for years and years without causing any trouble whatsover! Have BAA considered these locations - NO WAY!:*

LN-KGL

10th Apr 2006, 22:08

If I was given the task, I'll tell you where I would build it - the grass area at the end of Myrtle Avenue on the approachto 27L.

Don't destroy the open field at Myrtle Ave! I was there yesterday (Sunday) shortly before 2pm in hope they would change from 27R to 27L for landings earlier than the usual 3pm. I left for Hatton Cross as the rain started shortly before 3pm without see any arrivals. The only else joining me on that field were three guys and a girl from Polen, but they were more interested in consuming the content of their beer cans.

http://www.plane-spotter.com/Jpegs/LHR_2006-04/MyrtleAve/TheField.jpg

By the way - I was under the roof at Hatton Cross as the hail started around 4pm - and watched the KLM 737-900 PH-BXS taking a go around due to the wind conditions.

Amos Keeto

10th Apr 2006, 23:05

Yes, I was not serious, but just pointed out the ideal viewing spots that are 100% better than the so-called 'Visitors Centre'. This is council property anyway and outside the airport boundary. The other location near the BA Engineering Base would be the ideal location.

EastMids

12th Apr 2006, 11:05

Compare it with another popular leisure activity in this country - supporting a premiership football club:

Most spotters are thrifty at best and don't really want to spend [much]. Airports are businesses and shareholders and owners need to see a return on capital invested.

The reason why there are huge stands at football grounds like Old Trafford is because football fans will shell out hundreds of pounds a year, or well over £20 per game, for a couple of hours of entertainment each week. LHR is in the "premiership" of airports, but even if the facilities were built how many spotters would shell out hundreds of pounds for the ability to sit and watch airplanes week in week out, how many spotters would pay well upwards of £20 per person for a couple of hours or even a day using good viewing facilities - plenty moan at paying a few quid for parking, or go elsewhere to avoid such charges, and even when they do pay they bring butties rather than use catering facilities which would also generate ROI.

So, I suspect its over as far as official facilities at LHR are concerned - OK, the visitor centre was in the wrong place, but any replacement is really not going to generate the return any business needs to justify investment.

A

Avman

12th Apr 2006, 13:38

Part of me agrees with you EastMids, and then part of me thinks that providing good facilities with plenty of parking space and just a minimum of catering options - all at competitive prices - would generate sufficient funds to cover operating costs. There would also be security benefits. It's a tough call.

foxile

12th Apr 2006, 17:04

Whoever runs the viewing area at Manchester seems to have made a reasonable success of it.

Desirodan

20th Apr 2006, 06:56

Was wondering how long it would be before someone mentioned Manchester! Makes you wonder why Machester can offer suberb spotting facilities, but BAA can't? Apart from the obvious answers! Still have yet to visit Manchester to comment on their viewing facilities.

Just out of interest, another BAA airport has recently shut its viewing area, the one at Southampton.:uhoh:

MAN777

20th Apr 2006, 07:13

Football fans shell out hundreds (maybe thousands) a year because they have no choice, vantage points overlooking premiership grounds are few and far between, so its pay to get in or subscribe to Sky TV.

"Spotters" do just that it doesnt have to be at the airport, photographers on the other hand, do have to be near and will pay to do their thing, take Sharjah for instance, I think the last time I did Sharjah it was £40 for the day.

LN-KGL

20th Apr 2006, 07:36

Just out of interest, another BAA airport has recently shut its viewing area, the one at Southampton.:uhoh:
There is still a viewing area, but only for passengers flying out (after security check on the upper floor).

http://www.plane-spotter.com/Jpegs/EuroTour2006-1/SOU_2006-03-24_ViewingArea.jpg

This photo is taken in the evening of 24 March as we (the PLANE-SPOTTER.com crew) waited on our flight BE871 to MAN.

Kurt - editor PLANE-SPOTTER.com

Desirodan

20th Apr 2006, 08:22

I stand corrected!

Just another question, I have been to LHR on several occasions but have only got approach shots, would love to get some touchdown shots? After reading about the man and his ladder earlier in this thread? Is there any other way of getting touchdown shots?

Also any other hints to taking "different shots" at LHR?

This is one of my attempts.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d186/desirodan1/Virgin747.jpg

LN-KGL

20th Apr 2006, 09:28

There is always the possibility to stay at Renaissance Hotel. They have a Plane Spotter Package where you get a room on the top floor facing runway 27R, and you can get this kind of photo:

http://www.plane-spotter.com/Jpegs/LHR_2006-04/Renaissance/9A-CTI.jpg
Photo taken shortly before 8am - sadly the windows of the hotel is very brown tinted and the cleaning is so and so.

Kurt

Avman

20th Apr 2006, 09:38

and you're facing south which is not much good on a bright sunny day!

LN-KGL

20th Apr 2006, 11:31

Correct Avman - between 10am and 4pm the light conditions are not suitable for using a camera.

Kestrel_909

20th Apr 2006, 12:03

Ha, one of the most famous airports in the world and it does nothing for spotters!

How does the Aviation Experience at BHX do? Is it costing more than it makes? I visited it recently when passing through BHX and found it surprisingly large! Crap views of T1, limited views of T2 but good view of the south half of the runway, albeit it quite distance away. The place was fairly crowded even though the crap wx. £1 entry or 50p for kids, free for passengers, it's not superb for photography but at least it gives us a place to gather. I'm told you don't even get moved on from the main longstay carpark, where you are only 60m or so from the runway and right under the approach.

I can understand the security situation, closing down the visitors centre at LHR might save a few £££ but how much extra hassle will it cause for the local police? Do you think everyone will stop visiting LHR? Phtt, fat chance!

Evanelpus

20th Apr 2006, 12:23

Kestrel 909

Can't see for the life of me what the spotting facilities at BHX has to do with this thread, but there you go.

I was at LHR on Easter Monday and went to the visitor centre, haven't been there for yonks but went to buy a copy of AL. The coffee was hot and the loos were clean and I even ventured into the tiered stand in the car park, luxury...NOT!! The guy at the Mach3 shop was saying that they were scheduling a meeting with BAA to find out what was ultimately going to happen to them.

I then went down to the approach of 27R and parked round the back of the factory units. I only saw one police patrol all day and that didn't bother me, all in all a nice few hours were spent watching the world go by.

My Dad's Little Boy

20th Apr 2006, 17:43

I used to regularly go to Heathrow and Gatwick to photograph aircraft before they shut the viewing decks down. I had been hearing rumours even before 9/11 that BAA wanted to shut the observation deck at Heathrow so it provided a perfect excuse for them - that is if they hadn't waited until February 2003 to do it. The answer provided by BAA to Amos Keeto's enquiry is absolute rubbish in that "the Government advised that all public viewing areas be closed on security grounds". If that was so, then why haven't the viewing areas at Manchester and Birmingham been closed down?

The reason is far more likely that it is BAA Corporate Policy that all their viewing areas should be closed down and that aircaft enthusiasts should actively be discouraged from visiting their airports. Instead of hiding behind "Government advice", why can't they just be honest with people and tell them the truth which is that they weren't making enough money from aircraft enthusiasts etc and thet they wanted to use the space to built yet more fast food outlets and underwear shops? If someone at BAA had used a little common sense, they would have realised that having all the spotters in one place where they can easily be supervised with the minimum of fuss and expense would have presented far less of a security problem than having them dotted all around the airport perimeter - hardly rocket science, is it?

I visited the Visitor Centre when it first opened about 10 years ago and decided straight away that it was a complete waste of time due to it's location. Someone at BAA must have thought really long and hard about that one. They might as well have put it up in the Orkneys for all the use it was.

But the people I do feel sorry for are the people at Mach 3 - not only were they turfed off Terminal 2 and looking at their website at the time, they were under the impression that it was only a temporary measure. Now they've been turfed out of the Visitor Centre as well!

It's obvious that BAA haven't got the business acumen to realise that the visitors of today could well be the passengers of tomorrow. I for one will never fly from a BAA owned airport if I can possibly help it. I would much rather fly from somewhere like Manchester, Birmingham or even Amsterdam.

JohnnyRocket

24th Apr 2006, 10:45

When did the Queens building actually close - and why?

I went to look for it last week - and asked some security guard who told me it closed in Sept 2001 - but that is just not true - and actually another example of 9/11 being used to close something just for the hell of it.

It was open when i went in 2002 / 3 - so when did it shut and why?

Desirodan

25th Apr 2006, 17:08

Not sure if this in the right section? But I'm looking for a Scheduled Timetable for LHR, all I can find is Live Flight Arrivals.

Can anyone help?

:ok:

BOAC

25th Apr 2006, 17:21

This (http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/controller/dispatcher.jsp?Ch=Flight+Timetable&ChID=93b06d35771a2010VgnVCM100000147e120a____&ChPath=LHR%5EFlight+Information%5EFlight+Timetable&ChIDPath=bde597dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____%5E572797dc 2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____%5E93b06d35771a2010VgnVCM100 000147e120a____) is the best I can come up with

captain_flynn

30th Apr 2006, 11:05

Didn't the T2 viewing gallery close in February 2003? I'm sure I spotted there in either Feb 2003, and then 2 or 3 days later it was closed.

Seems a shame we cannot spectate anywhere. I guess all the spotters will have to descend on heathrow and spot anywhere and everywhere so that 'security' get so fedup with us all that they will demand that there be a place for us to spot from. :}

spotter in the cabin

3rd May 2006, 10:41

The ideal place to build a new Observation Deck at Heathrow would be on the site of the former Texaco Petrol Station to the south of the 09R threshold. This area has been a blocked off empty piece of land for some years now. We need someone with entrepreneurial desire, loads of money and good negotiating skills to approach the BAA or whoever owns the land. It is sufficiently set back from the perimeter not to be a security risk and I reckon with the number of UK spotters, if it had descent facilities such as a restaurent, toilet and reasonably high observation platform, the owner could make a killing. (Maybe five quid entrance fee for the day).

There are also a number of empty offices overlooking 26 / 08 at Gatwick south side at Lowfield Heath which could also be used for a similar purpose if Planning Permission could be obtained etc.

Anyone like to invest in a couple of new business ventures ?

(Comment from a plane spotter since 1976 now flying as cabin crew for a UK airline out of Gatwick)

ALLDAYDELI

3rd May 2006, 12:47

why did they close that petrol station? Theres not many of them around LHR providing that type of service. Excellent spotting point for 09R/27L

spanishflea

4th May 2006, 08:03

[QUOTE=spotter in the cabin]The ideal place to build a new Observation Deck at Heathrow would be on the site of the former Texaco Petrol Station to the south of the 09R threshold. This area has been a blocked off empty piece of land for some years now. We need someone with entrepreneurial desire, loads of money and good negotiating skills to approach the BAA or whoever owns the land. It is sufficiently set back from the perimeter not to be a security risk and I reckon with the number of UK spotters, if it had descent facilities such as a restaurent, toilet and reasonably high observation platform, the owner could make a killing. (Maybe five quid entrance fee for the day)./QUOTE]

I'd love to invest in it, however the problem is its overlooking 09R, a runway that gets used for departures only, and even then only about 25% of the time. The only people who use the petrol station location when 27s are in use are the photographers with very long lenses and uber expensive cameras, and even that they can only usually manage to photograph slow climbing heavies.

It would be very difficult to make any money out of that end of the airport due to the fact that the pre-exisitng spaces at the 27s end of the airport are always going to be used when 27s are in use. Sadly there isnt really any opportunity to build anything in those areas. :(