PRESTWICK

[smith]

PIK-BOH reduced from twice daily to once a day.

A whole bunch of 737's at the FR hangar looks like the harp has been removed and the rudder removed from the tail on all of them.

[allanmack]

PIK - BOH (and EDI -BOH) reduced to once a day for the last three months smith. Also, the 737-8's sitting outside the FR hanger are the oldest ones which have been sold off to Brazil (?) and are being prepared for ferry.

[billyg]

The 2 738s outside the hangar with the Harps removed , EI-CTA and B , were due for a Russian airline , but this deal may have fallen through.

[james170969]

I noticed on teletext arrivals around a week ago that there was an evening flight from Bournemouth as well as the morning one. Is this a teletext mistake or are there two daily flights only on certain days?

[Runway 31]

According to the airport website there is on flight daily between Prestwick and Bournemouth arriving Prestwick 0745 on a Bournemouth based aircraft.

[Skipness One Echo]

A heads up for spotters is that the Police have now a bunch of dedicated uniformed staff on site who have been instructed to be seen to be doing something frrom "quite high up". Hence they are taking details of ANYONE who looks like they are spotting so expect to be stopped every time if they don't know you. I have been given a few of those forms from the MET however Strathclyde's finest plods are WAY more bored and taking a spotters details may it seem be a highlight of their day..... When he got to the bit of my family history and wanting to know where they lived I told him enough was enough.

It seems that Airfield Ops have been advised to radio in any sighting of anyone paying attention to the aircraft anywhere round the perimeter, so expect a visit from the Police if you are spotting as they will need to show that they responded to all of these reports. PIK's not worth the candle these days.
All part of security theatre as the Police are
1) absent much of the time and
2) armed only with big sticks and a wee spray

Good luck with a suicide bomber then. I hope to God there is a REAL Police presence that is armed or out of uniform to crack down on the real threat rather than be a visible presence to please the politicians who need to be seen to be doing something.

Incidentally the FR7544 / 7545 is still in the system and is removed on a daily basis. Also it seems that the only flights requiring check in from now on will be Aer Arran twice a week so lots of job losses expected. The check in girl was very bitter and I can't say I blame her.

[allanmack]

Are Wizzair following FR and doing away with check-in?

[airhumberside]

And what about the Turkey and Bulgaria charters?

[XSBaggage]

BOH-PIK-BOH is now once a day but timing depends on the day, sometimes it operates in the morning, sometimes in the evening.

Wizzair are still checking in at the departure airport as normal and have upped their flights to PIK slightly for S09. Still, with Ryanair being so dominant at PIK I don't imagine it will have much of an impact on jobs. Have used their service PIK-GDN and found them to be very good - much more "relaxed" experience than Ryanair.

[david.craig]

I say we organise a spotters day at PIK, give the 2 bobby on the beat a longgg day and fill up their little black books.
Then they have some nice paperwork to look forward to :cool:

[32SQDN]

Anyone know what the RJ was doing at PIK on Saturday. Looked like it was doing some circuits testing something out.

[Skipness One Echo]

Simple circuit training from EDI. PIK is often used to train pilots.

[32SQDN]

Ah -cheers!

[PIK3141]

S. O. E.

Your posting re Police reads as a complete OTT exaggeration. Local enthusiasts are not being hastled in any way. Police have approached people to introduce themselves and spent time with the spotters chatting and watching aeroplanes. The local dog handler comes to the mound....to walk his dog. And yes, there are real police with real guns.

[Skipness One Echo]

Local enthusiasts are not being hastled in any way. Police have approached people to introduce themselves and spent time with the spotters chatting and watching aeroplanes

Must just have been me that got the third degree then. He had three pages of copious notes at the end of it and never even bothered his arse to have a look in my rucksack or accepted my offer of checking my passport. ( I was flying Ryanair so was fully documented. )

I gave him my home address in London and when further questioned I told him I was visiting family. When he insisted that I supply THOSE details, he got quite hacked off. I told him that was completely irrelevant and I wouldn't be giving out that data. as I have lived away for years. He eventually drove off and came back ten minutes later with a very bored colleague, beckoned me over and had another go at finding out where my parents live. After ten minutes of me digging in my heels, he buggered off defeated.

I was baffled though becasue if he thought there was anything dubious about me, he didn't search me, check my passport or even check to see if I was wanted which are the standard checks. ( I used to date someone who was in the Police )
I however was a little annoyed that I had managed to fill several pages in a Policeman's book. Being harangued by a large man dressed in black armed with an array of cuffs, sprays and a large stick is not the best way to spend an afternoon.

As to the armed Police, if the Terminal was being patrolled I managed to miss them in the three hours I was there on Sunday waiting to fly. It may be the case they are out of sight which is fine. Just on past experience with quieter places like SOU and LCY, the Police get VERY bored and a stop and check is still a tick in the box.

The local dog handler comes to the mound....to walk his dog. Has done for years, used to do this behind PAAG until that was car parked over. The gentlemen who I came across are the dedicated airport unit and their remit is to investigate anyone taking an interest in aircraft.

[firstchoice7e7]

Being harangued by a large man dressed in black armed with an array of cuffs, sprays and a large stick is not the best way to spend an afternoon

oh i dont know, each to their own :ok:

[kpiko3]

The police at PIK are a good and very friendly bunch of guys, like another post has stated they usually come up have a chat and watch the planes. Strange to find this sort of treatment if so.

[FDMS]

From the Herald

"Budget airline Ryanair has threatened to cut routes at Prestwick amid a
sharp downturn in aviation. The Irish no-frills operator said all 28 routes from
the Ayrshire airport were "under review" following talks held yesterday with
management to discuss performance. Maria Macken, Ryanair's UK marketing
executive said that relocating routes to other airports in Europe was a likelihood
unless further support could be offered to the airline. She blamed passenger
taxies levied by the Government for putting pressure on Ryanair's operating
costs, claiming the airline was subsidising the price of the tickets.

"We're having to lower our fares in order to get people flying. But that's
not sustainable," she said.

"If we feel we can better value elsewhere, we will do that. If we can
operate for less, we will do that. That's why we are calling for the airport and
Government to get rid of costs."

Prestwick, which along with Edinburgh is one of two Scottish bases used by
Ryanair, saw a 9.6% reduction in passenger numbers in January, compared with
the same month last year, amid a steep downturn in aviation.

While this has affected airports across the UK, Ryanair's position at
Prestwick contrasts with Edinburgh, where it last week announced the addition of 10
further European routes.

The airline has carried out a campaign against the Airport Passenger Duty
tax in the UK, which is due to increase from
£10 to £11 per flight in November."

I would have thought that PIK's charges to RYR are already a low as they can viably be!

[nef]

It's rather difficult to see how FR can justify their claims that APD is the main reason causing them to make losses at PIK when they are expanding at EDI, but then yoou don't really expect anything else from FR!

[4567]

Have a funny feeling this is a scare tactic to try and get PIK to drop even further, as we know PIK is struggling already if FR were to leave they may aswell shut down passenger services. I doubt FR would allow EZY to become more dominant at their GLA base and give the west of scotland to them on a plate. Though thats just my opinion, who knows!!!!!

[smith]

I told you a few pages ago that FR would seriously think about a move, since they already fly from Glasgow Edinburgh airport (its only 35miles away same as Prestwick) I think they will continue to expand that base at Prestwick's expense.

[BALLSOUT]

smith, I am sure you are correct!

[ara01jbb]

None of my recent flights from PIK to BHD have cost me more than £5; although that said cutting frequency from three flights to one has, in my experience filled the midday flight quite well throughout the week.

On another note, who is it that foots the bill for the half-price / free train tickets that Ryanair passengers can claim to and from Prestwick? Is that a PIK or FR promotion?

[james170969]

Asset sales likely as Infratil posts loss | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2421519/Asset-sales-likely-as-Infratil-posts-loss)

Would this be good or bad for Prestwick Airport if it was sold? Maybe any new owners would get rid of that out of date, embarrassing, childish slogan not to mention the awful purple decor.

[honest man]

My own personal thoughts are it could be a good thing

[4567]

I too would see it as a good thing. The possibility of a new owner with fresh ideas for the aiport.
Though in these economic times i doubt Infratil could get a price theyd be looking for.
Cargo dropping and heavily reliant on one of europes largest but strongly willed low cost carriers : Ryanair who are now turning attentions to East Scotland :bored:

[Skipness One Echo]

It makes little difference tbh.
The list of people desperate to buy into a business that has had
1) minimal capital investment
2) with a railway station built from papier mache
3) with the cargo terminal built in the place they were told was the worst possible place
4) with cargo revenue plummeting
5) Ryanair having them by the balls....

What's in it for any business buying into PIK? Seriously?

[james170969]

I have to agree with you about the train station but this recession won't last forever and things will start to pick up eventually. What was in it for Infratil and Stagecoach when they bought PIK? They obviously saw that the airport had some potential for profit otherwise why would they buy it?

[allanmack]

1) minimal capital investment - true but what does that really mean? Doesn't it mean that if someone were to put in some capital investment things might look up? Many organisations buy into businesses despite there having been minimal investment in the past. It's about potential and PIK still has potential in various areas including maintenance.

2) with a railway station built from papier mache - Bit of an exaggeration as the railway station is solid enough - just needs a major makeover and made watertight!

3) with the cargo terminal built in the place they were told was the worst possible place - Easy enough to knock it down and rebuild elsewhere on the airfield. The development plan has highlighted this.

4) with cargo revenue plummeting - It seems to have been 'plummeting' for ages now in the minds of some but it will pick back up again. The next set of quarterly figures will give an indication of whether the plummeting has levelled out.

5) Ryanair having them by the balls....At least the airport still has balls.

A new operator might bring some fresh ideas but I don't expect anyone to take the plunge until the BAA sell off fiasco has been concluded. PIK will be here for a long time to come.

[Skipness One Echo]

1) minimal capital investment - true but what does that really mean? Doesn't it mean that if someone were to put in some capital investment things might look up? Many organisations buy into businesses despite there having been minimal investment in the past. It's about potential and PIK still has potential in various areas including maintenance.
** The main maintenance operator was Polar who were paid a lot of money to come and left when the bribes ran out. At the moment we have a large and empty B747 hangar, as does MAN oddly enough. This potential has been spoken about for years....

2) with a railway station built from papier mache - Bit of an exaggeration as the railway station is solid enough - just needs a major makeover and made watertight!
**There is NO money to do this, like the Terminal, the 1994 built railway staton will remain falling down until it actually does fall down. Utterly deplorable welcome to Scotland.

3) with the cargo terminal built in the place they were told was the worst possible place - Easy enough to knock it down and rebuild elsewhere on the airfield. The development plan has highlighted this.
**With the loss of the main US cargo carrier ( Polar )and the continuing fall in revenues there is no capital investment here in the medium term IMHO.

4) with cargo revenue plummeting - It seems to have been 'plummeting' for ages now in the minds of some but it will pick back up again. The next set of quarterly figures will give an indication of whether the plummeting has levelled out.
** agreed but with Air France losing a small fortune from cargo operations that leaves Cargolux, who loyal as they are are unlikely to pay for a new cargo apron and warehouses.

5) Ryanair having them by the balls....At least the airport still has balls.

All of the above points about "potential" were true until the market changed entirely with Ryanair. Hence the airport cannot expect to levy traditional airport charges / passenger fees and has to cross subsidise the operation from other areas like cargo and transit stops. This is partly why Atlas and Evergreen are at Hahn now. There is no scope to raise fees from passenger operations, hence revenue falls cannot be made up as the cargo market is fluid and they'd just lose the rest.

A new operator might bring some fresh ideas but I don't expect anyone to take the plunge until the BAA sell off fiasco has been concluded. PIK will be here for a long time to come.

I agree completely however the level of service is, in my experience pretty crap. PIK is the only airport where I have been called childish names by someone on the ramp, needless to say he is no longer employed as I made sure I made my feelings plain to management. The Terminal building itself is in a poor state of repair. The large space on the second floor on the East side has been vacant for TWENTY NINE YEARS. I kid you not, it used to be the canteen to watch the apron and eat at, it remains empty......PIK will always be a good DIV field or general aviation field but that's as far as I'm going to go. Wizz will be gone soon as the mass influx of cheap Polish labour is no longer in such demand, they are cutting back already.

[allanmack]

Some fair points there although I gather that money has been put aside for the Train Station. Also I find the level of service pretty fair and comparable with most Uk airports apart from LHR which is crap. You mention Hahn but isn't Hahn dependent on FR income (or not!) also? Regards the 'east side 2nd floor, are you referring to the old spectator terrace? If so the reason it has been closed for 29 years has been because of the amount of asbestos present (or so I am told).

On a plus point it is good to see considerable increases in military stopover flights.

[Skipness One Echo]

Regards the 'east side 2nd floor, are you referring to the old spectator terrace? If so the reason it has been closed for 29 years has been because of the amount of asbestos present (or so I am told).

Not exactly. Access to the exterior has been closed, I wonder if the interior is susceptible to asbestos? Doubt it, no I mean the EAST part of the building, the interior has been closed since BA withdrew the VC10 I am told. (Thanks Dad)
A lot of empty dead space there with no income.

As for Hahn, they have been more succesful with the cargo front and were until recently owned by FRAPoart I believe, who also own Frankfurt Main. ie A real airport company.

[tartan 201]

Last Wizzair service to Katowice was today, meaning just the original two destinations (Warsaw and Gdansk) remain of the four they served from PIK at their peak.

When will the Ryanair winter schedule for PIK be fully released? There's quite a few destinations missing from what's currently loaded (HHN and PSA to name but two) and BVA showing as daily, with the morning flight not yet available.

Also noticed that April's passenger numbers are down by 19% compared to April 2008. Of all the larger UK airports, only LCY has a larger percentage decrease (and then by only 0.3 of a percentage point), although in fairness to both airports, the number of flights decreased by a similar percentage.

[honest man]

I heard Hahn has gone which im very disappointed about i just used it last week handy for Ramstein spotting trips,EDI -Hahn is down to 2 weekly they must have issues there.

[anna_list]

PIK doesn't seem to be having a very happy time at the minute.

If you compare the first 4 months of this year to the same period last year, Ryanair's passenger numbers at PIK are down by over 16% and the average load factor for the base is down by over 4.5 percentage points.

Quite a few routes have taken a hammering. All comparisons are for Jan - Apr 09 vs Jan - Apr 08: PSA (average flown LF down to 56% from 69%), WRO (now 55% from 80%), NRN (now dropped: 52% from 61%), HHN (48% from 61%), BOH (42% from 60%). MRS also took a pasting last summer.

All of the above destinations are also operated from EDI and it is clear that this is having a severe effect upon the corresponding routes from PIK - Ryanair are cannibalising their own markets again.

I'm afraid I wouldn't be surprised if PIK lost a based aircraft this winter and if HHN was dropped, PSA became seasonal summer only and BVA (down to 55% from 63% so far this year) became a once daily service after having been twice daily for as long as I can remember.

It's hard to find many positives for PIK. RIX and TFS are the routes with the best loads, although given the long sector lengths, one can only hope that they are profitable.

Sorry to sound so miserable.

[BALLSOUT]

I doubt if the BVA will drop to one a day. The pax no's are down on the PIK-BVA legs, but the aircraft actualy fly from PIK-BVA then on to OPO in the morning and to TSF in the afternoons, the onward loads are strong.
In reality, I think we will see a steady move to EDI. Long term, my money is on only two or three aircraft at PIK, and the bulk of the flying from EDI.

[anna_list]

Hi,
From Sun 25th October BVA-OPO appears to be operated by an NYO-based aircraft flying NYO-BVA-OPO-BVA-NYO.
BVA-TSF continues to be operated by the PIK-BVA aircraft in the evenings. Unfortunately, now that the BVA-OPO has been switched to an NYO aircraft, I fear that the morning PIK-BVA rotation may be toast, at least for the winter.

I agree with your long term prognosis for PIK. Sadly, it looks as though any destination flown from PIK that FR also decide to start from EDI will come under a lot of pressure. Not long ago, I thought that PIK had the potential to reach the figure of 3 million passengers per year. Even once the economy recovers, this goal looks a long way off.

[david.craig]

Its a shame, I honestly believe that PIK has the greatest potential of all the Scottish airports that has not been harnessed due to certain managerial decisions.

*Plenty of area for expansion
*Good road and rail connections (yes the station needs improving, my point above)
*A very attractive weather record
*Two good length runways

In comparison to Glasgow at least, its pretty much boxed in by the M8 and Black Cart Water, even if you did expand over the Black Cart Water, surface drainage is going to become a problem. On-top of that there's night time restrictions.

My dissertation was on the relative merits of expansion at BAA Glasgow and Prestwick, after meeting with both Managing Director, you can probably see who's side i'm on!

I hope BVA doesn't drop to one per day. Every so often when the price dictates, we take a day trip to Paris. The 6.40 flight out, after getting the bus, drops you in Paris around 9.45am, witht he bus picking you up at 8pm for the 10.50 flight.

Just over 10 hours for a few euros! Not a bad way to spend a Saturday. :ok:

[james170969]

Yes, but some people think that being 45 minutes from Glasgow that Prestwick is the other side of the earth! Prestwick is more convenient for me but Ryanair is putting me off from using the airport because of the number of add ons for anything they can possibly think of and also because they keep cutting back on their schedules. I think it's such a shame that there aren't more airlines and flights at Prestwick.

[david.craig]

I guess we're kinda spoilt with BAA Glasgow (8 miles) being so close to the city centre. The majority of places, a 45 minute journey to the main airport is normal

[james170969]

Yes, just look at Stansted! It takes about the same time to get in to London. I have taken nearly an hour to get from Heathrow to London City Centre.

[david.craig]

Despite the state of the station, the actual train service is pretty good. Last time I checked there was 3 trains per hour into the city (or one per 20mins). Plus, a 50% discount if in possession of an airline ticket. Normally airport - city transport is a major rip-off source!

[Skipness One Echo]

All true on paper, therefore why is the airport in such a poor state?

[james170969]

So if Infratil do sell Prestwick (or Manston), when do you think this will happen and who do you think would be a likely buyer?

[david.craig]

Just pulled out a few quotes Mark Rodwell, Prestwicks' Managing Director, provided for my dissertation a few years back that in recent events, provides interesting reading.

“Where our capacity would be restricted would be through the terminal facilities. At present we transit 2.5million passengers a year. This can be increased to 5 millions by adding a few extra check-in counters and another baggage reclaim, but that’s the only real restrictions we have at the moment to increase from 2.5 to 5 million passengers.”

What do you feel is the biggest disadvantage that Prestwick holds?
“Disadvantage would probably be that Prestwick is not well known in the greater part of Glasgow, so achieving that reputation is important to us, there’s a lot of work going on to put that in place.”

“At present, where we’ve seen success is with low-cost point-to-point operations, and that’s where low cost operators get their efficiencies. As soon as you start to introduce transit passengers and transit baggage, that’s where you start to run into time issues, particularly the inability to turn an aircraft around in 20 minutes. So from a low-cost airline perspective the attraction for airports like Prestwick is to maintain point-to-point. However, it does open up the possibility for Trans-Atlantic operators to use Prestwick as a hub, and then distribute passengers out via the low-cost carriers, by fault becoming a hub airport without being a major hub such as Heathrow.”

"Infratil’s strategy at the moment is to buy airports that have future potential which is most definitely the case at Prestwick. As other airports become congested we will look at taking the associated with the over-spill. It’s the same with our other airports in Hamburg and Kent – these airports are purchased with the vision of long-term investments with future returns. Our investors are patient in waiting for these returns to come in. As you attract airlines, you start to build a snow-ball event. The bigger the through-put of passengers, the more airlines you attract.”

[Ian Brooks]

Skipness

The Manchester hangar will not be empty for much longer as it has been taken on by
Air Liveries and will open in Julyhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/embarass.gif

Ian B

[smith]

23 Feb 2008

I know that £650,000 has been earmarked for Rail Station improvements

20 May 2009

I gather that money has been put aside for the Train Station

You've been harping on about this money for the rail station for nearly a year and a half now, is it actually coming?

Actually I think it would be a waste of money now, most of the flights are moving form Glasgow Prestwick International to Glasgow Edinburgh International. I think it is all going Pete Tong for GPIA unfortunately, a combination of bad economic climate, setting up the EDI base and bad management. I am so glad I never took that unit off them that I was forced out of because of price.

[Skipness One Echo]

Gentlemen we have the final proof that they ARE indeed run my lunatics.

At present we transit 2.5million passengers a year
Untrue, the transit flights on North American etc do not tally to 2.5 million. He means they "handle" 2.5 million, but what's a word in the wrong place from an MD.

This can be increased to 5 millions by adding a few extra check-in counters and another baggage reclaim
The check in is now redundant on most days of the week so nothing pressured there now.

“Disadvantage would probably be that Prestwick is not well known in the greater part of Glasgow, so achieving that reputation is important to us, there’s a lot of work going on to put that in place.”
That I know is utter rubbish. Prestwick Airport fought Glasgow for years for traffic and is many things, but unknown is NOT one of the issues. The Ryanair operation at PIK is well known across Scotland.

However, it does open up the possibility for Trans-Atlantic operators to use Prestwick as a hub, and then distribute passengers out via the low-cost carriers
This is utter fantasy, all the US carriers have interline arrangements of their own. UA and US with Star and BMI. DL and NW with KL and AF through their hubs and AA with BA over LHR. CO operate direct to Scotland with three daily flights to Newark. Who on Earth is this guy alluding to?

As other airports become congested we will look at taking the associated with the over-spill. So he's waiting until GLA is full?

Very useful quotes as it DOES provide an insight into the naivety at Infratil.

[david.craig]

Not that I have any experience in the area, but its wrong to just sit and criticize so if it were up to me:

* I would get rid of the Pure Dead Brilliant branding, its not Scottish, it's Ned/Chav. Driving up to the terminal you can't help but snigger at it on the side of the hanger. The fact the font looks like graffiti just adds to the problem. Not a good image, if still wanting to keep it Scottish, then how about the airport name in Rennie MacIntosh font? Does anyone remember in 2006 they had a scibbled picture above the bar, of a guy in a kilt lying rat arsed on the ground with a bottle of whiskey in his hand and trading standards made them remove it. The entire marketing campaign portrays the airport as cheap and nasty.

* Renovate the entire terminal in the fashion that the area infront of the check-in desks have been done. Its sharp and clean looking, then you cross over to the disgusting carpets. Carpets in public areas, especially in Scotland, don't work.

* Do whatever it takes to encourage more retail outlets, initial reduced rents? Something has to start the ball rolling. At the moment there's not really anywhere to eat other than Starbucks cake's or crisps from WH Smith? Does Yates do food?

*Re-open the viewing gallery, yes it's purely asthetic but it all contributes to improve the airports image. Prestwick is relatively accessible and such a move may attract spotters who will spend money whilst on the premises. Lets face it, retail space is one of an airports biggest ancillary earners these days.

Once the above has been achieved then hopefully they'll be in a better position to attract more passenger services. I think the biggest potential is in holiday flights - Thomas Cook etc. Whilst this seems quite far-fetched at the moment, its holiday travellers after the biggest saving. Does anyone know how the Vegas flights next month are selling? I believe tour operators are in a better position to 'sell' Prestwick. Imagine booking a BA/BMI flight, done on-line and seeing 'Prestwick' may put people off. However, a customer sitting in a travel agent is in a position to have the pro's explained to them. Coupled with a saving over GLA flights, this may just work.


Any opinions? What else could be done?

[james170969]

"* I would get rid of the Pure Dead Brilliant branding, its not Scottish, it's Ned/Chav. Driving up to the terminal you can't help but snigger at it on the side of the hanger. The fact the font looks like graffiti just adds to the problem. Not a good image, if still wanting to keep it Scottish, then how about Rennie MacIntosh font? Does anyone remember in 2006 they had a scibbled picture above the bar, of a guy in a kilt lying rat arsed on the ground with a bottle of whiskey in his hand and trading standards made them remove it. The entire marketing campaign portrays the airport as cheap and nasty."
Hell YEAH!! I couldn't agree more. This also demonstrates the naivety of Infratil and Mark Rodwell.

[sealink]

as a regular visitor to the the area, who uses Prestwick, i agree that the Pure Dead Brilliant is not good. it shouts cheap and unprofessional. i travel from BHD with FR and love Prestwick as a gateway to Ayr and also to Glasgow city centre. the direct rail link is fantastic and the state of the station is of no concern as i wait in the terminal until the train is due. thousands of people travel to Scotland by the short sea ferry routes and FR need to increase the frequency of their BHD to PIK route again and capture more of this market.
i agree that holiday flights would be a great asset from PIK. the airport should offer free car parking, on a trial basis, to try to lure travellers to fly out of PIK. a PIK fan from Belfast.

[david.craig]

Must be a short hop from Belfast!

[sealink]

last trip i timed it at 18 minutes in the air. :ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

If they'd been making money at thrice daily it'd still be thrice daily. Market share is irrelevant if you can't balance the books. We all know the image is crap, the owner isn't brilliant, the main airline has them by the balls. Attracting spotters won't work as the only things worth seeing on the airfield can't be seen from the Terminal most of the time.

You say Renovate the entire terminal in the fashion that the area infront of the check-in desks have been done. It's worth noting that all the renovation in the last decade has been done with minimal investment as a cursory glance at the decaying external structure will tell you. They are attempting to polish a turd, hence you are right, a proper renovation is needed. However Infratil do not have the capital to do this. Their plan was buy cheap and I suspect sell when someone else wanted to invest leaving the major capital investment to the buyer. Except no one significant wants to buy.

They can't offer free car parking as with little revenue derived from Ryanair directly, it's the ancillary revenue they rely on.

Think about it, they've built market and attracted a lot of passengers and managed not to make enough money to drive the business forward and to maintain revenue ( Atlas / Polar / Evergreen ). The business model may need some serious tweaking here.

[Track Jitter]

"* I would get rid of the Pure Dead Brilliant branding, its not Scottish, it's Ned/Chav. Driving up to the terminal you can't help but snigger at it on the side of the hanger.............

I was once in the company of a certain gentleman and was going to bring up the "branding" in conversation. I was warned by my friends not to as everyone else does the same!
That was a while back, I wonder why it's still there as nobody likes it.

[david.craig]

I would put £20 on that campaign being drawn up by 'someone' who wasn't Scottish, infact probably someone who had not long arrived in the country.


...........after watching too many episodes of Still Game?

[ara01jbb]

Re: PIK-BHD.... Still FR's shortest sector anywhere: ~ 80 miles, and the crew still manage a full bar service. The block time is about double the flight time, so I've always had to sit through the "another on time arrival" fanfare... :hmm:

[david.craig]

With the exception of a Cat 5 hurricane, FR block times always seem to allow for the ontime fanfare. After all, they are europes most reliable airline!

[james170969]

I am not such a big fan of Ryanair as I once was, although I still fly with them occasionally. Maybe it's just luck I don't know but I've found Ryanair to be the most punctual airline than any other but Easyjet is right behind them in terms of punctuality.

[james170969]

Has anyone notice that the Prestwick arrivals page on teletext has been down for most of the week? Apparently due to "technical issues" but why is it taking so long to fix I wonder?

[Oceanman]

Do you think Ryanair will ever restart the Prestwick-Bournemouth flights after they finish in mid July? Is this the start of Ryanair pulling out of Prestwick? If so what will happen to the airport????

[allanmack]

FR will not leave the West of Scotland to EZY - the market is too big. The only reason they would leave PIK was if GLA came up with a better offer. Can't see that happening in the short term. You might though see the number of based aircraft go from 4 to 3 as aircraft are deployed elsewhere in Europe or simply laid up due to the recession.

[Skipness One Echo]

When did it go from 5 to 4?

[allanmack]

Sorry, meant 5 to 4.

[tartan 201]

I fear that 4 > 3 could be right enough 'allanmack'. May's provisional passenger numbers are down 26.8% to 163,492 according to the CAA, which is lower than recorded in May 2004. That percentage decline is around the biggest of all the larger airports in the UK.

As I type, the following aren't yet bookable for the winter in the Ryanair website (in addition to the soon-to-be-dropped BOH and KRK): BUD, HHN, BGY, PSA, REU (though this hasn't operated in some other previous winters), CIA, NYO and WRO. Each of these (except BUD, REU, BGY) is also operated from EDI and available for winter booking from there; PSA, although operated from EDI, isn't available for winter booking from there yet. Surely Ryanair aren't going to have such a drastic reduction in traffic through PIK - is this a bit of brinksmanhsip between FR and PIK with the aim of the latter reducing their fees further? (if indeed there's any scope for them to be reduced)

[honest man]

Though its nothing compared to the dreadful cuts Malaga and Faro have increases in july,gutted about loss of Hahn used it a few times

[tartan 201]

'Honest Man' - in addition to those frequency increases, I see that GRO goes to twice-daily on Thursdays from mid-July.

There's also an article in the local paper (here (http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/local-news-ayrshire/prestwick/2009/07/03/more-flights-on-way-to-prestwick-airport-102545-24037163/)) this week about the local MP's concerns over the apparent cut in FR's winter schedule. It says:

"He [the MP] contacted the company following concerns that the airline is winding down its operation at Prestwick.

The winter timetable currently shows only half of the airline’s schedule.

But boss Michael Cawley says the full timetable contains much more"

So hopefully, many of the currently-unbookable destinations will soon become bookable for the winter. There's also a post on the BOH thread on this forum stating that BOH - PIK may return next summer (albeit just four-weekly). So there's perhaps some cause for optimism on the FR front at PIK, especially as in this (http://www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co.uk/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090625/FREE/906259985) article, FR claim that PIK is still one of the UK bases from which they are looking to expand (presumably once the recession is over).

The aforementioned article in the Ayr local paper also has a snippet about an aspiring 'Obanair' company conducting feasibility studies into linking PIK with Oban and Stornoway. If I recall correctly, Stornoway (and Derry?) were tried from a PIK a few years ago by the ill-fated Air Caledonian, but lasted only a few weeks. I seem to remember one of the pilots for that operation posting on here saying that the loads to SYY at least were reasonable, so best of luck to those behind Obanair.

Finally, can someone confirm to me that the recently announced Cargolux flight on a Monday from Toronto has started operation? (it was due to start in April I think and I'm just wondering if it did indeed start)

[pikman747]

The Cargolux flight from Toronto (CLX777) did indeed start as planned but is not an extra service as the service originates in Huntsville and was already routing through Prestwick. It was reported at the time that if there was enough business it might become an additional flight. That has not happened so far and seems unlikely in the short term.

[Skipness One Echo]

Looking at Ryanair, going forward into this winter, there are still no flights on the following routes :

Frankfurt-Hahn
Bournemouth ( announced as being axed )
Krakow
Stockholm-Skavsta
Reus ( summer only recently )
Grenoble ( not returning for the winter )
Marseilles ( summer only recently )
Budapest
Milan-Bergamo
Oslo-Torp
Rome-Ciampino
Pisa

Are we really TEN routes down on last winter????? How many based aircraft are planned?

[james170969]

According to Brian Donohoe, MP for Central Ayrshire, Ryanair have assured him that the full winter timetable has not been loaded yet and that they will not be cutting back on the number of winter routes from Prestwick. I also read in a newspaper that Ryanair plans to expand form Prestwick in the future.

[Seljuk22]

FR cutting BUD, BGY, HHN, PSA, CIA, NYO, REU and MRS :eek: Is it true?

FR Cuts PIK 50%, Opens SVQ — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4484434/)

[CabinCrewe]

....so much for the politician. The EDI Ryanair effect ? Perhaps mainstream carriers will return to GLA.

[james170969]

More flights on way to Prestwick Airport - Ayrshire Post (http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/local-news-ayrshire/prestwick/2009/07/03/more-flights-on-way-to-prestwick-airport-102545-24037163/)
I have checked Ryanair's website and several routes are still not bookable but Michael Cawley does say that the "full timetable contains much more"

[4567]

Ryanar have been to know to lie!!!!

I do believe PIK has been delt a rather crippling blow!!!!! I doubt theres any chance of another carrier stepping in, if anything EZY may take on some routes from GLA.

[james170969]

Or they could be trying to persuade the government to drop the departure tax and try to play Prestwick and Edinburgh against each other in order to get better airport charges. I think it would be a great shame if passenger services were ever to cease at Prestwick. Although certain parts of the airport leave a lot to be desired it has more going for it than some people realise.

[Seljuk22]

Ryanair: New routes to ALC, PMI, LPA and ACE (thanks to the "zero" tourist tax in Spain).

[CabinCrewe]

With those routes, will be a big shock to EZY and GSM when they move up the road to GLA !!!

[honest man]

Cargolux seem to have started a 4th Monday B744F flight which comes from Atlanta CLX869

[airhumberside]

PIK-IBZ also starting next summer according to the BBC

[Skipness One Echo]

Glasgow Prestwick Airport (http://www.gpia.co.uk/general/newsItem.asp?NewsItemID=361)

Did they sack the publicist during the restructuring? FIVE NEW ROUTES and they forget to specify exactly where....

The focus of the base has swung completely from destinations in Europe to sun breaks to the usual suspects we're had on offer for years. Looks like a big drop to 18 destinations for the winter :

5 UK / Ireland
1 Norway
1 Sweden
1 Poland
1 Lithuania
8 Spanish
1 Portugese

Ryanair’s big expansion in the Canary Islands is due to “zero” tourist taxes in Spain and the 100% discount on airport charges this winter.

From the newsfash on Ryanair.com, so they get to use the airports for FREE????? I mean come on, this is NUTS!

[ryanair1]

This is not nuts, this is how it should be. we provide passengers to the airport, and the airport can make money on those people - and their relatives/friends/colleagues through car hire, parking, shopping, advertising potential etc amongst many other initiatives to make money.

At the end of the day if an airport doesnt get that they wont get the services from us (or other true LCC's) not only in the good times but in the bad times

[james170969]

Why are some peope so determined that Ryanair is going to leave Prestwick and start using Glasgow instead and that Prestwick Airport is going to close? Anyone would think that certain people actually want Prestwick Airport to close with the loss of several hundred jobs not to mention the loss to the local economy. How would they feel if they were made redundant and could not afford to pay their mortgage and their house got reposessed. It never fails to amaze me how childish and immature some users can be with their "my airport / airline is better than your airport / airline" attitude. I'm quite happy to use both Glasgow and Prestwick Airports.

[racedo]

From the newsfash on Ryanair.com, so they get to use the airports for FREE????? I mean come on, this is NUTS!

For whom ?

For Canary Islands is pretty much net benefit as currently slots are unused in winter and adding 800,000 people (assumming cannibaising some existing operators) into economy with their spending power will have nice benefit. Even average spend of €200 per SLF each it certainly justifies free slots.

Canary Islands is losing people as young people are migrating elsewhere in search of work so providing some economic stimulus off peak is in their eyes a good investment.

[CabinCrewe]

Looking at your location, one can see why you might be especially sensitive to this. MOL etc however will be more concerned with the bigger picture, leaving symantics and local feeling behind. If PIK doesnt make business sense it will lose out, whether you feel strongly about it or not.

[Skipness One Echo]

Airports are VERY expensive capital projects. Ryanair's use of Sat 3 at Stansted is quite a pleasant experience but when MOL gets his way the whole experience will mirror the add on at the end of SAT 3 which is a cramped nightmare full of frustrated and cramped passengers wondering which of the many queues is the one to join.
If an airport is to generate the capital to invest in facilities it needs to charge the users, ie the airlines, a market rate. To airports that Ryanair has by the balls, ie in this example Prestwick, they have to generate ancillary revenue. This is why the rent of the businesses on site has gone up and the airport Terminal and railway station are looking, shall we say, neglected.
The costs that Ryanair have saved are merely passed onto someone else where possible, or the income does not materialise.

Where is Infratil at Prestwick ever going to generate enough profitability to fix the rotting infrastructure when the resident carrier flies gratis? Why should Ryanir fly for free as the other carriers in the Canaries are just subsidising the competition? I do not believe for one minute it costs nothing for Ryanair to use an airport so in effect someone else is paying for them to do so. This is the truth of the ultra low cost model as it is inherently corrosive. One Hell of a good party for some in the good times, but someone else has to pick up the pieces at the end.

This is part of the reason I question whether the Ryanair model is sustainable to some of the airports involved.

Cabincrewe stop stirring needlessly. Ryanair have never suggested moving to GLA as they are not going to get a better deal from the BAA or any new owner as they effectively have a gun to Infratils head at PIK.

[james170969]

With all due respect, the fact that I live nearer to Prestwick than Glasgow has nothing to do with the comments that I made. I am more than happy to use either airport. I would feel exactly the same way if I lived in Paisley. However, I can not understand why certain users appear to be desperate for Ryanair to move to Glasgow and for Prestwick Airport to close. I wonder how they would feel if they worked at Prestwick and had a family to keep and had a mortgage to pay. I also noticed how some cowardly users of this and other forums hide behind the relative anonymity of the internet to trade childish insults with other users. This behaviour I find to be totally unacceptable. Everyone has a right to have an opinion and that is something that we should all respect. And I don't believe that anyone should wish the closure of an airport which would result in people becoming unemployed. I would certainly not wish this on either Glasgow or Prestwick. Before anyone asks, I do not work at either airport - I work for Royal :{ Mail!

[racedo]

Airports are VERY expensive capital projects.

They maybe but given the opportunity of getting some revenue when facility is already open or gaining nothing then option of gaining something is what they will seek.

Its a no lose situation for Canaries as their passenger numbers are struggling and adding 800,000 tourists where money fed directly into Islands economy will be welcomed.

Utimately too many airport operators are over spending on capital investment and forgetting that majority of people want to get in and out of an airport as quickly as possible with the minimum of hassle.

[Skipness One Echo]

forgetting that majority of people want to get in and out of an airport as quickly as possible with the minimum of hassle.

I agree, the consequences of SOME allowing airlines to fly gratis means that in the long run, the facilities will not be able to support this is once again they will be lowest common denominator.

Think the low cost pier at Glasgow or the scrum downstairs in Sat 3 at STN. That is VERY far from the minimum of hassle racedo, it's often a cramped and horrid experience.

[tartan 201]

FR have certainly spoken to BAA recently about a base at GLA: see para 25 of this (http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/ref2007/airports/pdf/hearing_summary_ryanair_2.pdf) ("Ryanair had talked to BAA at Glasgow about introducing a base there, but had been told that BAA’s head office would not allow Glasgow to engage in discount arrangements.") and page 51 of this (http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/rep_pub/reports/2009/fulltext/545_3_4.pdf) ("essentially BAA offered us [FR] the same deal at Glasgow International that we have negotiated in Edinburgh, which we would not regard as successful at all"). The latter is an interesting comment about their deal at EDI, which could lend credence to the view (advanced on another thread) that their deal there includes a 'non-cannibalisation' clause, with no (or little) discounts on routes already served from EDI. (That could explain why routes like Oslo and Paris aren't served by FR from EDI, both of which you'd have thought would provide strong inbound loads to EDI.)

If you think it all through though, it could be argued that FR's current position in the west of Scotland is the strongest it can ever be. While based at PIK they always have the threat of moving to GLA, which gives FR the upper hand in any negotiations with PIK. If, however, FR moved to GLA then their position is weakened as they go from being the largest customer at PIK to one of many customers at GLA. GLA's owners would have to take account of all their other customers when considering what deal to offer FR and so - as the quote above about EDI indicates - the deal is unlikely to be particularly attractive and certainly not as attractive as their current deal at PIK (if it were, GSM and EZY I'm sure would soon demand the same terms). Any deal could also have non-cannibalisation clauses in it, restricting the routes that would qualify for the largest discounts. Hence FR's strongest negotiating position is the status quo: stay at PIK but always have the threat of moving to GLA to keep PIK's prices keen - competition in a nutshell.

That said, the prospect of higher yields at GLA may be sufficient to make the switch attractive. Figure 27 of this (http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/rep_pub/reports/2009/fulltext/545_3_4.pdf) provides some evidence to suggest that yields at GLA may be higher than PIK (all other things being equal), since it shows that a £15 increase in ticket price would have dissuaded from flying around 30% of those surveyed at PIK, whereas the same increase would have dissuaded only just under 15% at GLA (and EDI for that matter). The experience of BMI Baby's GLA/PIK - CWL route could be interpreted as bearing this out.

Today's route announcements could indicate a long-term refocusing of FR's PIK operations to 'sunshine' destinations (and so take on EZY and GSM at GLA), with EDI focussing on the Euro cities (although a non-canibalistion clause in the contract there would restrict the scale to which that could be done). Looks like ALC is four-weekly, LPA twice-weekly and ACE and PMI each weekly (don't know about IBZ). I'm sure the booking system earlier today showed these increasing in frequency in summer 2010, but they're unbookable as I type so can't be certain. FAO, AGP and TFS all become more frequent in summer 2010: 4, 6 and 5 weekly, although a lot can obviously change between now and then . A report on the BBC website (here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8174200.stm)) states that the new destinations are being served at the expense of some of the existing destinations identified as unbookable earlier in this thread, so it looks like the FR presence at PIK isn't being cut as much as had been earlier feared.

Finally, there's a few interesting points in Infratil's latest annual report (here (http://www.infratil.com/media/PDF/ift_ar2009.pdf)):

"The main area of cost reduction has been at Glasgow Prestwick where staff numbers have been reduced by approximately 25%. In addition, business development expenditure has been reduced because it is apparent that in the short term business is just not there to be developed. Making these changes has been disheartening, but necessary."

"Infratil’s investment in these airports has been motivated by assumptions about trends. More people and freight are being moved by air and as hub airports become congested there will be a step change in the demand for under-utilised edge-of-town airports. While this forecast remains valid, its timing is uncertain and this uncertainty is being factored into Infratil’s approach to these investments."

"Glasgow Prestwick and Kent both present similar dilemmas. UK airport ownership is undergoing a major change at present as
BAA has been obliged by regulatory agencies to sell Gatwick Airport and one of its two Scottish airports. In addition an extensive process is underway to identify the next runway for London with Kent being a candidate. These factors and the underlying propensity of the aviation industry to bounce back quickly from recessions auger for the long-term value of Infratil’s UK airports. Set against this is the uncertainty of the time frames."

This (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/market-data/2600737/Infratil-ponders-sale) report suggests that LBC's likely to be sold in October and stakes sold in MSE or PIK (or both) if a buyer can be found. Perhaps FR should buy a stake in PIK, if they're confident in their theory that airports can offer them low charges and yet still be profitable on the basis of car park charges etc...

[Joe Curry]

"Any deal could also have non-cannibalisation clauses in it"
Could this be the reason why some long haul routes (Middle east direct)
operated from GLA are absent from EDI?

[CabinCrewe]

"Any deal could also have non-cannibalisation clauses in it"
Could this be the reason why some long haul routes (Middle east direct)
operated from GLA are absent from EDI?
Middle East, GLA, EDI all in one post...I could have guessed who the author would have been without even looking :rolleyes:

[billyg]

Quote/ 'FR have certainly spoken to BAA recently about a base at GLA: see para 25 of this ("Ryanair had talked to BAA at Glasgow about introducing a base there, but had been told that BAA’s head office would not allow Glasgow to engage in discount arrangements.") and page 51 of this ("essentially BAA offered us [FR] the same deal at Glasgow International that we have negotiated in Edinburgh, which we would not regard as successful at all").'


The above would suggest that, should Glasgow be sold off, then FR are virtually certain to move there as any new owners will be trying to attract new business.

[Skipness One Echo]

billyg does Glasgow have overnight parking and morning capacity on the old international for up to five B737-800s?

Actually as I type this I guess it has the parking space but the gate rooms would be busy. Mind you they used to have a BA TriStar, NW DC10, AA B767, and an AC TriStar of a morning once upon a time....

[codpiece face]

This in the scheme of things is terrific news for Prestwick, and it is what the people of Ayrshire and South west Scotland need, holiday flights to destinations in the sun. Edinburgh will always pull more visitors than Prestwick and so it makes sense to adjust the flights in the way they have.

PIK know that families going on holiday spend money, this should create extra revenue for the outlets at the airport and would explain why they have gone ahead with the departure lounge extension whilst simulatneously laying people off. The frontage and road area at the front needs some thought now as it all confuses many people with a maze of doors and roadways, and as mentioned before the rail station needs some tlc as it is a big asset to the airport.

What they need to do now is concentrate on is giving the entire place a good lick of paint as it looks run down in quite a few areas, and improve customer care for this all costs virtually nothing to the airport but it is what people remember and would hopefully encourage repeat business.

[james170969]

"codpiece face" I totally agree with what you are saying. I haven't been to Prestwick Airport since March so I don't know what things are like now. The train station badly needs work done on it as does the bridge which has been leaking rain from the roof for about two years at least. And I wonder how long the purple decor and THAT slogan will stay. Some people are so determined that Ryanair is going to move to Glasgow and that Prestwick will close. Hopefully both Glasgow and Prestwick Airports will both emerge from the current recession and prosper.
btw - Why are you called "codpiece face"? :D

[bigjames]

my very first flight as a wee lad was YUL-PIK (Montreal to Prestwick) in jan 1973 on a BOAC 707. My family was embarking on a 9 month stay in Edinburgh.

Who knows, maybe PPRuNer BOAC was in command or on the FD. i have never been back to PIK since. and of course i have no memory of the airport that cold morning. but i hope the place thrives. it has an important place in my life long affair with aviation!

i'll send a nice bottle of champagne to anyone who can (with proof) let me know the flight number BOAC used in 73 for YUL - PIK!

people who look it up on the internet need not apply!

[allanmack]

I remember watching the BOAC VC-10s and 707s in the early 70s but the only flight callsigns/numbers I can remember were the Speedbird 538/539 which I am sure was JFK and the 648/649 which was I think Toronto?

[Musket90]

I think possibly all the BOAC flights through Prestwick in early '70s originated from Manchester. The JFK was Super VC10 BA537/538 and Toronto or Montreal ? was B707 BA607/608.

[aldamc]

AIRBUS is to showcase the A380 in a spectacular overfly of British airports and production factories next Saturday (5 September). Coming out of Toulouse the aircraft, MSN001 (F-WWOW), the original Rolls-Royce powered prototype, is scheduled to first perform an approach and flythrough at Edinburgh (13:40) and Prestwick (14:00); followed by a flying display at the Northern Ireland International Airshow at Portrush (14:20), and an overfly at Belfast City Airport (14:40). It will also be seen over the Airbus facility in Broughton, North Wales (15:08), where Airbus employees will be celebrating the company’s founding 40 years ago. The final appearance of the day will be over Birmingham International Airport (15:40) where another A380 is due to land for the first time the following Wednesday week (9 September).

[honest man]

Story in this weeks local press that CEO Mr Rodwell will leave Prestwick end of November returning to Australia but is remaining with infratil.
FR weekly ski flight to Turin from 19th dec

[smith]

PIK-BVA cut from two to one rotation a day as of October:ouch:

[scrivenger]

Can somebody help me with two questions?

1 Do Cargolux still operate from PIK and if so with what frequency, and
2 Who is the present owner of PIK and is it, as I heard recently, up for sale ?

Any replies would be appreciated.

[Jes]

Did you read the thread before asking these questions?

[Runway 31]

scrivenger

There are 6 or 7 Cargolux flights per week with 4 scheduled today alone. 3 eastbound and 1 westbound

As far as I know the airport is not up for sale but I would expect that if you wanted to buy it and put the right offer forward it would be yours.

[Skipness One Echo]

scrivenger
A simple google search takes you to the home page. They are owned by Infratil.
The Cargolux home page can give you a link to the timetable that will tell you the rest.

[david.craig]

Disappointed to see BVA cut to one per day. We frequently took the early morning flight out, late night back for a day trip. Not a bad day out when the £1 offers were running

[scrivenger]

Jes - no I'm sorry I didn't. Having been in commercial aviation for 30 years sometimes you need pertinent information FAST. I didn't read the whole thread because I couldn't be ar*sed. I'm so sorry.

Skip - thanks for the info, but I have yet to find a web page that reflects the up to date information that I needed! particularly CVs , and in any event they wouldn't indicate unscheduled stops etc

Jeez lighten up guys, this is only a recession.

Rwy 31 - tks mate

[tartan 201]

Is Prestwick for sale? Good question, but it's hard to find a definitive answer. As 'Runway 31' points out, Infratil don't seem to have gone on the record as saying it's officially for sale, but they've dropped plenty of hints. The pointers suggesting that they do want to sell it include:


this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/markets/news/article.cfm?c_id=62&objectid=10595833) article, which states that they are "likely to realise $64 million for the sale of Lubeck Airport through an agreement with the local authority in the German city", which would reduce Infratil Airports Europe's portfolio to just Prestwick and Manston, thus raising a question over IAE's longevity.

Information presented at their AGM (see here (http://www.infratil.com/content/view/2733/67/)), which says "Improving capital allocation is a key focus for 2009/10 and is progressing. Capital spending has been tightened and capital is being extracted from low growth or low yield situations. To date that has meant the sale of Fullers and some bus depots and progress at the European Airports and Energy Developments". Although 'progress' could of course refer to just the potential sale of Lubeck.

In their September update (here (http://www.infratil.com/media/PDF/update_sept2009.pdf)) they say "The European Airports have under achieved and capital is being extracted from those investments." Again, though, this could refer to just the $64m mentioned above in relation to Lubeck.

and, continuing the theme, this (http://www.infratil.com/content/view/2740/67/) says "Infratil faces a difficult financial market, and while the firm doesn't need to panic, it does have problems - underperforming European airports and some underperforming smaller investments, he says. Bogoievski will make some big decisions about what constitutes the core assets for Infratil over the next six months, Curley says. For one, Infratil is expected to sell its majority stake in Lubeck, an underperforming airport in northern Germany."


On the other hand though, browsing through some Prestwick photos on Flickr I noticed this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tubthumper/sets/72157612801395672/) set of photos of what appears to be a pretty extensive (and presumably expensive) upgrade to the ATC systems in the tower. Similarly, this (http://www.yourthanet.co.uk/kent-news/Manston-radar-systems-get-%C2%A32-million-upgrade--newsinkent28829.aspx?news=local) article states that some of Manston's equipment is being upgraded at a cost of £2 million. Why make these investments if the airports are going to be sold shortly?

We might get a clearer indication of Infratil's plans for Prestwick over the next few months, as the boss there, Mark Rodwell, is returning to his native Australia next month (source (http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/local-news-ayrshire/prestwick/2009/09/04/prestwick-airport-boss-heads-back-down-under-102545-24584340/)). (Interestingly, there's no mention of this on either the Infratil or Prestwick websites). His replacement could be interpreted as the litmus test of Infratil's intentions, as if they recruit a high-calibre candidate from outside then presumably they intend owning the airport for some time and the successful candidate has convinced his or herself that he or she isn't going to be suddenly working for a new employer a few months after starting. If, however, they don't then that could be interpreted as meaning that they don't intend much in the way of development of the airport and are happy to keep it 'ticking over' until someone takes it off their hands, although in fairness there could be plenty of other reasons why they would be content not to recruit a new manager (as opposed to promoting one from within).

I don't know who would purchase it in the current economic situation, with things compounded by Ryanair's stranglehold on the airport and the possibility of invigorated competition from Glasgow (depending on the outcome of BAA's appeal).

So is it for sale? I don't know, but it seems as if the next few months could be quite interesting.

[runaway28]

The £2 million investment is not something that has actually happened. This news piece seems to be about what they plan to do over the next two years as opposed to any actual investment thats taking place. Infratil have already said that any capital investment will need to be justified. Traffic at Manston does not justify any investment.

Lubeck, although talked about as "under performing", it happens to be the only IAE airport that is actually growing in size. As Infratil have an option to sell this month and they want to raise capital, its an easy fix.

If they had an option to sell either Manston or Prestwick as they do with Lubeck, there is no doubt either or both would be sold.

[tartan 201]

"Disappointed to see BVA cut to one per day. We frequently took the early morning flight out, late night back for a day trip. Not a bad day out when the £1 offers were running"

'David' it looks like these flights are restored to twice-daily from the start of the summer schedule. Interestingly enough, the reinstated morning rotation is a straight PIK - BVA - PIK, rather than the current PIK - BVA - OPO (I think) - BVA - PIK. BUD is also restored for summer 2010, although CIA, PSA, HHN and NYO aren't as I type.

Edit: the above was the case when I typed it, but PIK - BVA is now showing as only daily for summer 2010 (no morning rotation), although PSA and CIA are now bookable for summer 2010.

[smith]

Flew to Stansted yesterday(tues) and back from PIK and looked at the departure and arrival screens. Even though it was very early in the morning the departures and the arrivals did not fill the whole screen and Departures and Arrivals for Weds (today) were also showing.

Quite sad really, I counted I think there were about 8 or 9 Deps and Arrs for Tuesday, it used to be up around 30 rotations a day, it looks like the traffic has been cut drastically for the winter season, and I cant ever seeing it going back up to the previous levels since Glasgow Edinburgh International has canibalised a lot of PIK's routes. :{

[fab_n_funky]

Does anyone know what happened at PIK tonight around 1830? (28/10/09) The A79 was closed due to an aircraft apparently arriving with a fuel leak?

[ara01jbb]

Agree with Smith, was there that same day heading to BHD. It's bleak airside and landside, although the new winter sun destinations might bring holidaymakers who might be more tempted to spend some £££ in the terminal. Noticed that the small outlet of a certain local sportswear chain hasn't been open lately, seemed a rather optimistic business proposition for the departure lounge.

[PIK3141]

f n f
A Canadian CC150 Airbus diverted in with suspected fuel leak.....later departed.

[Skipness One Echo]

Am I right in saying there are five based Ryanair aircraft with three active units at any one time?

[BALLSOUT]

There are five based aircraft at PIK. For the winter schedule however, they will not all be used every day.

[Suzeman]

Found this little gem on UK Airport News......The bit in bold is my emphasis.

Somebody not done a risk assessment of toasters then? :}

Suzeman

21.11.09
Prestwick Airport has been evacuated three times in a month - because workers keep burning toast! The Daily Record reports that flights were disrupted and thousands of passengers and staff forced to flee the terminal after hungry immigration officers blundered in staff rooms. Now the airport may impose a toaster ban.

An 'insider' told the newspaper: ‘This is the third time in the past month that the fire brigade have been called out to the airport for burnt toast. It has caused massive disruption for everyone. There are a lot of businesses within the airport terminal which have been hit by the chaos.'

‘It seems to be immigration officers who are triggering the smoke alarms with their snacks and the airport have done nothing about it so far. They need to ban toasters because their total disregard for safety is putting lives at risk and must be costing taxpayers a fortune in false alarms.’

A Prestwick airport spokesman said: ‘We are currently reviewing our procedures to prevent a repetition of the problem. We have reminded our staff of the correct use and positioning of toasters and if the problem persists we may consider an outright ban.’

[allanmack]

Please remember that this is The Daily Record reporting! People like 'insider' and 'spokesman' always say dubious things and tend to exaggerate somewhat.

[evansthetimp]

Can anyone tell me where or how I can find advance arrival details of the Boeing 747LCF flights into PIK.

Thanks.

Evansthetimp.

[james170969]

Flybe are to fly between Prestwick and Jersey every Saturday between June 19th and September 11th next year. They will be offering flight only and package holidays through Jersey based C.I. Travel Group, Jersey's largest tour operator. Flybe will be using a 78-seat Bombardier Q400 aircraft.

[ara01jbb]

They must have faith in the Ayrshire market, although one Q400 shouldn't be hard to fill. A return 19/6 - 26/6 is pricing up £50 more expensive than the cheapest of the four available flights from GLA on the same dates...

[james170969]

Why would they charge £50 more than flights from Glasgow on the same dates? Personally I'd prefer to fly from Prestwick (not that I have anything against Glasgow airport) because I live only a few minutes away. However, if I could get a flight on the same day for £50 cheaper then I'm going to fly from Glasgow.
Since I have last flown from Prestwick I believe the departure lounge has been extended. Does anyone have any photos of the extended departure lounge? Is the seating any better? The last time I was there the rows of seats were so close together that it was very difficult to move and the seats were rather tatty. Is there any change in the retail outlets?

[ara01jbb]

Since I have last flown from Prestwick I believe the departure lounge has been extended. Does anyone have any photos of the extended departure lounge? Is the seating any better? The last time I was there the rows of seats were so close together that it was very difficult to move and the seats were rather tatty. Is there any change in the retail outlets?

The WHSmith, the Costa Coffee stand and the games consoles have been relocated on the left hand side and have been pushed outwards, creating a glass rooflight. Daylighting makes a definite improvement, although being below ground / ramp level there are still no windows you can look out of.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2541/3742392192_b43bca4a58.jpgPrestwick International Airport on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbrownontheroad/3742392192/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3491/3742392200_1a3fa3bd47.jpgPrestwick International Airport on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbrownontheroad/3742392200/)

[Seljuk22]

FR: 6th a/c from March and will open a new route to FUE
Ryanair - News : Ryanair announces 6th Aircraft for Glasgow (Prestwick) After? (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/rte-en-181209-2)

[Random Flyer]

I have a copy of Ryanair’s original timetable for summer 2010 from PIK and having just checked flights on their website, I can only see a few small increases on existing routes. I am guessing you do not need one extra aircraft to operate the following flights, so are other new routes planned for PIK or have they not yet finalised what routes will see increased flights?

Alicante was 4 weekly, it now appears 5 weekly.
Faro was 3 weekly, it now appears 4 weekly.
Fuerteventura is a brand-new route, with 2 flights per week.
Palma was 5 weekly, it now appears 6 weekly.
Tenerife was 4 weekly, it now appears 5 weekly.

Apart from this, I cannot see any see any other changes.

[Seljuk22]

LPA, ACE, TFS (which are very long routes), ALC and PMI started last month and will continue during summer - Carcassonne, FUE and IBZ will start next summer
If you add these routes and the add. frequencies to the existing routes there should be a need for 6 a/c althought some routes has been cancelled in the past.

[Joe Curry]

Looks very much like FR are filling some of the previous GSM GLA capacity
at PIK?

[Random Flyer]

LPA, ACE, TFS (which are very long routes), ALC and PMI started last month and will continue during summer - Carcassonne, FUE and IBZ will start next summer. If you add these routes and the add. frequencies to the existing routes there should be a need for 6 a/c althought some routes has been cancelled in the past.

LPA, ACE, TFS and PMI are already operating so they must fit in to the current 5 based aircraft schedule. Carcassonne and Ibiza were announced sometime ago, so I would guess they would be part of the 5 based aircraft schedule.

A number of routes which operated last summer such as Frankfurt and Marseille will not be returning in 2010. So I would guess this is where capacity for Carcassonne and Ibiza came from.

PIK-ALC is operated by a ALC based aircraft.

The press release from Ryanair states that they will add extra flights to Alicante, Faro, Fuertventura, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, Malaga, Palma and Tenerife. However so far, no extra flights are bookable for Gran Canaria, Lanzarote or Malaga and the extra flights to ALC are operated by an ALC based aircraft, as is the entire PIK-ALC schedule.

I stand to be corrected but I don’t think the current PIK timetable is fully utilising 6 based aircraft.

[Seljuk22]

FR cancelled/reduced a lot of routes at the end of summer 2009 and added new routes (and will continue them during summer as we mentioned before) > 5 a/c last summer - axed some 'short routes' added new 'longer routes' - PIK remained at 5 a/c during winter.

But some 'summer only' routes are coming back:
BUD 2 weekly, PSA 3 weekly, CIA 3 weekly, REU 3 weekly + GRO, PMI, Murcia etc will be increased (if you compare winter/summer).

On the other hand:
TRF (4 weekly) and TRN (1 weekly) not bookable during summer.
HHN, NYO, MRS have been axed last October/November and don't come back.

Maybe one a/c doing some W-Pattern from/to BVA.

[GnRdL]

Hi,

Is PIK using 5 a/c during the winter?
Currently (Winter): 22 routes working, 103 freq/week, 206 oper./week. 2W routes (BVA and TRF) 11freq/week.

@Random Flyer:
Respect to PIK-ALC has a new frequency more operated by a PIK based aircraft (for summer). ; )

Regards

[shamrock7seal]

Is Bournemouth ever going to return?

The PIK-BOH route carried 128,000 passengers in 2008...

[Random Flyer]

I've just noticed that Oslo appears to be dropped from the summer schedule. A few days ago this route was showing to operate 5x per week. Now nothing is showing.

So if Oslo is for the scrap, I really cant see how Ryanair need 6 aircraft for next summer :confused:

[lfc84]

bbc reporting ryanair plane overshoots runway. all 129 off.

[32SQDN]

Black ice on taxiways apparently.

[Voldermort]

Link here to a photo of this mornings incident at PIK
World Air Images - EI-DHD (http://www.worldairimages.com/geek/mediagallery/media.php?f=0&sort=0&s=20091223055146990)

[LPFR]

The press release from Ryanair states that they will add extra flights to Alicante, Faro, Fuertventura, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, Malaga, Palma and Tenerife.

No kidding! :} All routes GSM used to operate from GLA. But I wouldn't be surprised if easyJet adds extra flights to those destinations as well, or even Jet2 pulls in.

[FR-]

And where is Jet2 going to find the funds to open up GLA? lol

[Random Flyer]

No kidding! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif All routes GSM used to operate from GLA. But I wouldn't be surprised if easyJet adds extra flights to those destinations as well, or even Jet2 pulls in.

Actually, Globespan never flew to Furteventura. :} They planned it a number of years ago but the route never got off the ground.

[Skipness One Echo]

Blimey! That Ryanair must have landed long to get that far down 31! Either that or zero grip. Never seen anything that light miss the high speed at Link K. Very odd. Will be trying it myself later this morning. Fingers crossed.

[honest man]

Link K was closed so he he had to roll to the end

[allanmack]

Main headline in today's Herald highlighting an article by the GLA CEO where she attacks PIK's 'government subsidy' in giving free or half price rail travel to and from the airport. Is this deal actually a gov subsidy as I was lead to believe that it was a private deal between two private companies- Infratil and Scotrail? What's the exact situation? Her article is quite good up until the last paragraph where I feel it's a bit of a cheap shot at both PIK and FR. Methinks it's a bit of a panic article and she would be better off trying to prevent BAA continuing to favour EDN

[honest man]

I havnt read it but im sure thats a lot of rubbish the government dont have anything to do with the subsidies it is a private thing as far as i know, anyway its been going on for years so why moan about it now

[Random Flyer]

Main headline in today's Herald highlighting an article by the GLA CEO where she attacks PIK's 'government subsidy' in giving free or half price rail travel to and from the airport. Is this deal actually a gov subsidy as I was lead to believe that it was a private deal between two private companies- Infratil and Scotrail? What's the exact situation? Her article is quite good up until the last paragraph where I feel it's a bit of a cheap shot at both PIK and FR. Methinks it's a bit of a panic article and she would be better off trying to prevent BAA continuing to favour EDN


I saw the same article. For anyone who has not seen it, here is the link Sky?s the limit for Glasgow Airport - Herald Scotland | Comment | Guest Commentary (http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/guest-commentary/sky-s-the-limit-for-glasgow-airport-1.994149)

Some bold statements such as “However, even before Globespan’s demise, we were working with other airlines to secure about 12 new routes for 2010. That work continues. And we will shortly announce plans for a multi-million-pound investment for Glasgow Airport for 2010 and 2011, funded entirely without taxpayer contribution.”

I agree that it is a good article until the last paragraph. The last paragraph just reeks of desperation from Amanda and BAA. If BAA were doing a good job at Glasgow in the first place, they would not need to worry about rail fares to Prestwick.

[apron alpha]

Does anybody think ryanair are about to announce GLA as a new base?

[Joe Curry]

They may start flights from Abbotsinch fed from PIK or EDI but it doesn't make commercial sense to have 3 aircraft bases so close together.. why
would they want to complicate what they already have.?

[allanmack]

No. The announcements at GLA will probably be centred around increased charter capacity to Europe and North America and perhaps a couple of new routes from BE and EZY. I would be very surprised if FR announced any GLA developments at this stage.

[Joe Curry]

If BAA were doing a good job at Glasgow in the first place, they would not need to worry about rail fares to Prestwick.
One wonders why they sold PIK in the first place.

[Joe Curry]

No. The announcements at GLA will probably be centred around increased charter capacity to Europe and North America and perhaps a couple of new routes from BE and EZY. I would be very surprised if FR announced any GLA developments at this stage.

Or perhaps the 'We' in BAA's plans embraces ALL it's Scottish airports and not just exclusively Abbotsinch?:D

[G-AWZK]

FR retain a base at PIK due to the route development funding they got when that system still existed. The second that the RDF money stops, you can bet your house that FR will leave PIK.

There is a very strong case for a Scottish airline, even if it is simply to prevent the FR cancer spreading to squeeze out any other possible competition.

[Joe Curry]

I thought the RDF funding had stopped?
Scottish Airline? Surely FR are currently the busiest with Scottish bases?
Or do they have to be based at Abbotsinch to earn the "Scottish" description?

[apron alpha]

Ryanair are building an extension to the existing hanagar or a complete new hangar at PIK. The job of constuction site manager for hanger was advertised and closed 2 weeks ago. The extension is a new bay for 3rd aircraft to park nose in, currently the hangar has space for 2 nose in.Why would ryanair leave PIK when they practically use it for free? and build extension on hangar? Would it open up avenues for new airlines to come to PIK if ryanair left?

[CabinCrewe]

Joe Curry
Whats with all the sniping at Glasgow "Abbotsinch" ?

[Random Flyer]

FR retain a base at PIK due to the route development funding they got when that system still existed. The second that the RDF money stops, you can bet your house that FR will leave PIK.

Ryanair had a base at Glasgow Prestwick long before the Route Funding came along. Route Funding in Scotland ceased many years ago and Ryanair still have a base at Glasgow Prestwick.

[PIK3141]

Those suggesting Ryanair will move from PIK to GLA need to get a serious understanding of arithmetic. If FR pay PIK 50p or £1 ish per head, and if the rate at GLA is £15 or £17 ish per head, then even IF GLA charge half price, then FR will still pay 7 to 15 times per head to use GLA instead of PIK. And if GLA charge FR half price, what will BA, BMI, Easyjet, Flybe et all want ? PIK is 30 miles nearer most FR destinations, ie 30 miles less flight time and fuel burn. Often FR land straight in on runway 31, and depart straight out on 13. That in itself is an enormous fuel and cost saving.
Maybe GLA would be better employed getting Brussels Airlines to Brussels, Swiss to Zurich, and Lufthansa to Munich, instead of leaving myself and others to drive to Manchester ?
When I worked for Air Canada at PIK in those summers we peaked at handing 14 Air Canada flights in one day. GLA now can't offer 1 Air Canada flight.
So maybe GLA should focus away from Ryanair and PIK's rail station and look at what business they should be offering but don't.

[apron alpha]

with ryanair also building hangar extension at PIK, they are well placed with EDI and PIK to serve west, central, areas. What other airlines could PIK attract to compliment ryanair?

[Random Flyer]

Those suggesting Ryanair will move from PIK to GLA need to get a serious understanding of arithmetic.

Nobody is suggesting Ryanair will leave Glasgow Prestwick.

If FR pay PIK 50p or £1 ish per head, and if the rate at GLA is £15 or £17 ish per head, then even IF GLA charge half price, then FR will still pay 7 to 15 times per head to use GLA instead of PIK. And if GLA charge FR half price, what will BA, BMI, Easyjet, Flybe et all want ?

BA, BMI, Easyjet, FlyBe etc will continue to pay what they do now. That would not change. When FR went to EDI, did BA, BMI etc demand the same prices as Ryanair? I doubt it. The same scenario is in place at airports Europe wide, where FR are not the only carrier. So why would GLA be the exception?

Maybe GLA would be better employed getting Brussels Airlines to Brussels, Swiss to Zurich, and Lufthansa to Munich, instead of leaving myself and others to drive to Manchester ?

From PIK's point of view yes. But BAA may feel differently. Only BAA know. At this moment in time BAA don't seem interested in any airlines at GLA.

Why would you drive down to Manchester if a flight is on offer from GLA? That seems rather silly, tbh.

So maybe GLA should focus away from Ryanair and PIK's rail station and look at what business they should be offering but don't.


Agreed! Amanda McMillan’s rant on the PIK Rail Link seemed desperate. Funny how it comes just after GLA lost its Rail Link. Maybe she’s feeling jealous.

[Random Flyer]

with ryanair also building hangar extension at PIK, they are well placed with EDI and PIK to serve west, central, areas. What other airlines could PIK attract to compliment ryanair?

Wizz Air to Prague would be a good start. :)

[apron alpha]

gran canaria, thomsons, 900 quid cheaper from manchester than glasgow, 2 days of a difference.

[apron alpha]

would aggree with wizz air, flybe?

[Random Flyer]

would aggree with wizz air, flybe?

With PIK-JER now on offer, if it proves successful they might well add some new routes. It's hard to say what routes but I would personally love and use a PIK-LGW route.

[apron alpha]

My mistake its derry x 4 weekly

[PIK3141]

R-F
You said ''When FR went to EDI, did BA, BMI etc demand the same prices as Ryanair? I doubt it.'' Ryanair one would guess would be paying what for them would be a premium to be in EDI. Amusing in that they bleat and squeal about charges in many places, but when it suits them they quietly pay. I doubt that they would be willing to pay a premium at GLA when they don't need to because they fly from PIK. Hence they would seek large reductions in charges, so why would BA, BMI, Easyjet, Flybe et all, sit and watch that happen ?

Why would I drive down to Manchester if a flight is on offer from GLA? They aren't. Not with any airlines non-stop, and not with those airlines, who were providing the tickets, for work reasons.


http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=5409686)

[Joe Curry]

Whats with all the sniping at Glasgow "Abbotsinch" ?
Sniping? I'm 72 and it is and always will be Abbotsinch..if you mean I'm having a go at it, is criticism forbidden in this forum?

[apron alpha]

Air france landed 2day at PIK with a hole punctured under starboard wing, possible ice strike on landing

[honest man]

Crosswind element today as well of 20knots+ at times

[apron alpha]

21/03 an ice rink! hotel and golf also, runway good, anti frost down, :)

[G-AWZK]

I thought the RDF funding had stopped?
Scottish Airline? Surely FR are currently the busiest with Scottish bases?
Or do they have to be based at Abbotsinch to earn the "Scottish" description?

RDF continues to be paid to routes that were funded before the scheme was stopped by EU rules. FR set up home at PIK in the old days due in part to the subsidies and RDF they received and continue to receive. No new routes are able to enjoy this benefit.

Are you suggesting that FR should be Scotland's national airline??

Where in my post did even mention Glasgow? You do seem a little sensitive Mr Curry.

Scotland deserves it's own airline - AND RYANAIR SHOULD NOT BE IT!!!

[Skipness One Echo]

Presumably EDI remains Turnhouse but only to the elderly who remember when it was all fields! When I was up for xmas only Apron A was in use and it still had snow and ice everywhere. There has been no attempt to deice many of the links and the cross runway is not available. You get what you pay for. Wasn't too impressed with the new layout in the lounge as it now has less daylight.

[apron alpha]

departure lounge was meant to be a 1.7mil investment, cut down to 1mil, 2.5 mil pax the next target to trigger further up grades and refurbishment to terminal, think that might be a year or 2 down the line

[smith]

Scotland deserves it's own airline - AND RYANAIR SHOULD NOT BE IT!!!

Have you ever heard of Loganair?:ugh:

And if you hadn't heard, Scotland's most recent Jet carrier, flyglobespan went ( . )( . )'s up a couple of weeks ago!!!!!:ugh:

[honest man]

I believe the Air France B744F that went tech yesterday is now in the former Polar hanger being worked on

[tartan 201]

Ryanair one would guess would be paying what for them would be a premium to be in EDI. Amusing in that they bleat and squeal about charges in many places, but when it suits them they quietly pay. I doubt that they would be willing to pay a premium at GLA when they don't need to because they fly from PIK. Hence they would seek large reductions in charges, so why would BA, BMI, Easyjet, Flybe et all, sit and watch that happen ?

PIK3141 - I think you're spot-on based on page 51 of this (http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.competition-commission.org.uk%2Frep_pub%2Freports%2F2009%2Ffulltext%2F54 5_3_4.pdf) in which Ryanair states "essentially BAA offered us [FR] the same deal at Glasgow International that we have negotiated in Edinburgh, which we would not regard as successful at all". From that we can conclude:
a) they pay a relatively (for them) high charge at Edinburgh, which they're presumably happy to do based in part on the higher yields on offer there given its strength as an inbound tourist destination.
b) that same deal's on offer at Glasgow, but that's not attractive enough to them and so a greater discount would be required to entice them. Doing so would lead to the issues with Easyjet etc to which you refer.

Ryanair are building an extension to the existing hanagar or a complete new hangar at PIK. The job of constuction site manager for hanger was advertised and closed 2 weeks ago. The extension is a new bay for 3rd aircraft to park nose in, currently the hangar has space for 2 nose in.

Apron Alpha - do you have a link to this advertisement by any chance? I can find this (http://www.aviationjobsearch.com/jobs/aero_engineer/all_uk_regions/project_manager_for_hangar_construction-58750.html?search_no=10) job advert for a construction site manager for new Ryanair hangars, but it doesn't say where the job's to be located. It merely says "Presently we have 3 facilities Dublin, Stansted and Glasgow Prestwick, due to the requirement for increased hangar capacity, Ryanair are in the process of choosing several sites throughout Europe to build hangars on a D&B process to fulfil this increase." Is it certain that Prestwick is to be one of these sites? Talking of hangars any prospect of a new tenant for the old Polar Hangar?

[BALLSOUT]

Not only is the Ryanair hangar at PIK the one they are about to extend, one of the new bays is designed to take a wide body aircraft, 787 anybody?
No way will they be leaving PIK any time soon!
Ryanair use the Polar hangar for overspill work just now.

[apron alpha]

not sure on the size of the extension and for what size of aircraft, long haul aircraft based at PIK soon? The change in strategy at PIK to sunshine destinations should see PIK back to growth 2010, steady growth path, hopefully

[BALLSOUT]

I'm not saying there will be long haul aircraft based at PIK any time soon. PIK is the main heavy engineering facility for the whole Ryanair network, so they fix aircraft at PIK for all the bases. There must be something at least at the thinking stage though, for them to spend money on making space for anything bigger than the 800.

[apron alpha]

damage on the air france aircraft is reverse thrust flaps have been struck by something, enough to ground the aircraft, small damage spread across starboard wing. no emergency was declared by pilot no fire service attendance

[Skipness One Echo]

Why not just lease the old Polar hangar? Or at least take the titles down. Typical PIK. They still had a Wardair check in desk for years after they left. If the Ryanair hangar is so crucial then why doesn't it have massive RYANAIR titles as per Stansted? I wonder do we have a link to the text which suggests a larger type than the B73H?

[BALLSOUT]

skipness, It wouldn't suit FR to use the polar hangar long term, their hangars are purpose built especialy for the 800. That's why it is so intereting that they are building something bigger! The extension is for the 800's as I said, but with one larger bay???

[Skipness One Echo]

Link? In which direction is the extension going? Seems odd that building a new bay is cheaper than the big empty hangar next door.

[apron alpha]

the hangar is to be built east side of hangar apron papa side, where the 2 mounds of dirt are, i dnt know the size, or if its only for 800s, air france departed last nite, hangar empty again! no news of any new tennants yet. is the polar lease up yet?

[BALLSOUT]

Polar gave the lease up last year when they left PIK, the hangar is now in the hands of the airport.

[honest man]

Its on the airport website in the property section as up for lease

[apron alpha]

ground services using it to store some equipment during the bad weather, apart from that its empty, hopefully somebody will lease it out and generate some extra revenue:)

[racedo]

Seems odd that building a new bay is cheaper than the big empty hangar next door.

Capital Investment minimises amount of tax paid and potentially some grants available as well.

[honest man]

I hear theres a 146 in it just now possibly the weather example

[apron alpha]

apparently, last year globespan were looking at it for maintenance base, how much truth in that there is i dnt know, its a superb hangar for somebody.

[apron alpha]

great to see the 3 british airways 777s at prestwick today! took up the whole of the main apron, ryanairs relegated to apron bravo! good to hear the "speed bird" call sign, PIK has signed a deal to be used as BA diversion airport, hopefully a lot more in the future!:)

[Jamezon]

Not sure how to quote Apron Alpha's post? But the new hangar is a "3 bay maintenance facility". The implication being a new build.

[peterc]

Yep its G-LUXE we are going to be in PIK until 02nd Feb , doing weather research.:):):)

[apron alpha]

ground works are going to start soon, so then il be able to give a report on the size of the hangar, i was told it was going to be extension for one extra 800, meaning the space in total is for 3 800s inside, If its a new build for 3 800s, is that then space for 5 in total? like i said earlier, i will be able to report as it goes up.

[Callsign Kilo]

great to see the 3 british airways 777s at prestwick today! took up the whole of the main apron, ryanairs relegated to apron bravo! good to hear the "speed bird" call sign, PIK has signed a deal to be used as BA diversion airport, hopefully a lot more in the future

BA won't. You know how much it costs to divert a fully laiden 777? Expecially the one that had to overnight on Thursday 7th?

I don't either, however it isn't cheap - especially when your airline is losing money at a faster rate than water running from a burst main!

[apron alpha]

PIK is the n.d.a for BA, designated diversion airport at an agreed fire service category, i would imagine there will be an agreement on handling charges, ground power units, landing fees etc. Your correct, it wont be cheap, Its good extra income for PIK. and a decent deal for BA, but will still cost!

[Callsign Kilo]

It's less so the cost of utilizing PIK, which is undoubtably a cost effective diversion point for transatlantic aircraft inbound to LHR and LGW. It is when the crew becomes out of hours, the pax require hotels and the a/c is unusable until it can be returned to base, resulting in further delays downroute.

[apron alpha]

yes it must be extemely costly alright! anyway, good to see the aircraft in at PIK anyway!

[Callsign Kilo]

Must admit, the 777 is a remarkable beast. Got a good picture of her sitting on the snow covered ramp as I 'slid' my way to the crewroom on Thursday night.

[ara01jbb]

It is when the crew becomes out of hours, the pax require hotels and the a/c is unusable until it can be returned to base, resulting in further delays downroute.

I would imagine that finding ~ 240 hotel beds at short notice for a fully laden triple-7 in the Prestwick area can't be fun. I'd imagine you might end up in Holiday Inn at GLA... :}

[james170969]

Well there's the Marine Hotel in Troon, the Thistle Hotel in Irvine, a Travelodge just up from the airport at the Dutch House roundabout, and another Travelodge in Kilmarnock and that's just for starters!

[smith]

a Travelodge just up from the airport at the Dutch House roundabout

Thats a Premier Travel Inn at Dutch House.

The Travelodge is up at Heathfield besid Franky and Benny's. There is a Holiday Inn just by there as well. Still don't know if this lot could accomodate a full 777. You got the Ramada Jarvis and Western House in Ayr and the Parkstone in PIK also, that just about may do it if they didn't have a lot of bookings already.:ok:

[air2000dub]

Havoing had past experience many years ago trying to find hotel rooms for an air jamaica diversion at PIK. It was not easy.

[james170969]

Travelodge / Premier Travelinn - they all look the same to me!!! :ugh:

air200dub I think you would find it much easier to get a hotel room if you were diverted to Prestwick now than you did then, there are so many more hotels in the area. Ok so they aren't five star luxury hotels but I've been to several Travelodges and they have all been very clean, warm and comfortable.

[apron alpha]

Tom wilson back as infratil airports europe cheif executive, hes got good local knowledge, experiance, a good move by infratil?

[smith]

Travelodge / Premier Travelinn - they all look the same to me!!!

Maybe, but the Travelodge is way cheaper than yhe Premier Travel Inn :ok:

[james170969]

What was the reason that Tom Wilson gave when he left Prestwick Airport to do other things? Let's hope that he is able to bring more passenger and cargo airlines and routes to Prestwick.

[apron alpha]

not sure why tom left, but hopefully his experience will bring in some freight companies to PIK, thats where the problems at PIK are, the polar air pull out, this is what hurt the airport, so hopefully toms contacts can be brought in and fully utilised to fill the polar gap.:ok:

[honest man]

Flying club has moved from Apron P over to apronG presumably to make way for the start of the new hanger

[apron alpha]

yes the work started last week, hopefully the airport on the way up:ok: ryanair summer flights doing very well for bookings, would not rule out a 7th based aircraft this year. busy summer coming up, any ideas on a carrier who would complement ryanair? without threatening them?

[JohnnyPharm]

Flying club has moved from Apron P over to apronG presumably to make way for the start of the new hanger

Honest Man.

What's happening to the flying club's clubhouse, can they still use it?

[honest man]

Yes they have moved from the ramp just behind the cemetry so they are closer to the clubhouse which is landside anyway

[tartan 201]

I wonder if a seventh aircraft is indeed on the cards. Looking at the currently-on-sale schedule for the first Monday in June 2010 shows the following:

Aircraft 1: TFS, AGP
FR 653 06:25 Depart
FR 654 15:55 Arrive
FR 655 16:45 Depart
FR 656 23:35 Arrive

Aircraft 2: PMI,BVA
FR 696 06:40 Depart
FR 697 13:35 Arrive
FR 64 15:55 Depart
FR 65 23:20 Arrive

Aircraft 3: STN, GRO, MJV
FR 404 06:50 Depart
FR 407 09:40 Arrive
FR 7823 10:05 Depart
FR 7824 15:50 Arrive
FR 7842 16:50 Depart
FR 7843 23:20 Arrive

Aircraft 4: FUE
FR 6953 07:00 Depart
FR 6954 16:35 Arrive

Aircraft 5: GSE
FR 7892 14:00 Depart
FR 7893 18:00 Arrive

Aircraft 6: ACE
FR 6153 07:45 Depart
FR 6154 17:10 Arrive

The above shows that aircraft four, five and six have quite a bit of spare time. FAO has to be fitted-in (currently scheduled as out at 0830, back at 1500), which could work with aircraft five if the departure was brought forward to around 0630. However, there’s almost another aircraft’s worth to do LDY, BGY and STN:

FR 7682 11:25 Depart
FR 7683 13:20 Arrive
FR 742 14:50 Depart
FR 743 20:05 Arrive
FR 426 20:30 Depart
FR 419 23:15 Arrive

So a seventh aircraft with some more destinations to be announced, or some alterations to come to the schedule with some of the destinations served by non-based aircraft? As an aside, Oslo Torp has been dropped for summer 2010, which is a bit of a shame as it was one of the first overseas destinations launched from PIK as I recall.

[apron alpha]

i dnt think your to far away with that tartan, sales are strong so far for the summer schedule, i reckon a 7th based aircraft is on the cards:). new hangar ground works started, dnt have a time scale on it, tom wilson was back at the airport today, out and about the airfield and terminal.

[honest man]

I heard 10 months and the club aircraft are moving back

[james170969]

Now that Aer Arann are going to fly from Glasgow to Cork on behalf or Aer Lingus I wonder if Ryanair will recommence the route from Prestwick.

[ara01jbb]

...and whether RE will keep their Donegal service at PIK? would they prefer to consolidate at GLA?

[allanmack]

It is not an RE service to GLA from ORK - it is an EI service so chances of RE moving their Donegal service from PIK is probably low although I'm sure the pressure is being put on to move.

[james170969]

I looked a few hours ago on Aer Arann's website and the Prestwick - Donegal route was still on sale. I hope they stay at Prestwick and maybe even expand at some point. I'd love to see another airline at Prestwick to compete with Ryanair.

[pikman747]

Greatly doubt a 7th based aircraft. It looks to me that the Ryanair summer schedule comprises 130 departures weekly - that is only 3 more than last year. Obviously the longer routes take up more flying time and hence the need for the 6th aircraft. Unfortunately, unless the load factors are significantly better the airport's passenger figures are not likely to recover from their current low point anytime soon.

[Twitcher]

.......tom wilson was back at the airport today, out and about the airfield and terminal.
He will be a busy boy for a while. He is going to run Manston for a while too as our CEO is leaving.

[bigdaviet]

I looked a few hours ago on Aer Arann's website and the Prestwick - Donegal route was still on sale. I hope they stay at Prestwick and maybe even expand at some point. I'd love to see another airline at Prestwick to compete with Ryanair.

I've often thought that a turboprop airline could perhaps move in on some of the PIK routes that ryanair have closed. 40-50 pax on a 737 is no good but on an ATR, you're laughing!

[pikman747]

When Ryanair stopped their Cork - PIK route their loads were usually over 100 but when Aer Arann took over they were lucky to half fill the ATR-72.

[james170969]

Why weren't Aer Arann's loads as good as Ryanair's? What is Aer Arann like to fly with compared to Ryanair?

[allanmack]

Simple answer is cost. It will be interesting to see how the cost to ORK and DUB from GLA pans out once the initial raft of low fare deals end

[Skipness One Echo]

I agree, Ryanair's cost base is way lower than Aer Arran, hence low fares.

[tartan 201]

There's info on the new Ryanair hangar here (http://ww6.south-ayrshire.gov.uk:81/bumblebee-web/caseFile.do?category=application&caseNo=09/01390/PNF) on the South Ayrshire Council website. The drawings and associated letters are at pains to point out that everything proposed is subject to agreeing commercial terms - has an agreement been reached and is there a public announcement anywhere? It sounds the kind of thing that local politicians would be keen to trumpet.

[apron alpha]

think its to do with ryanair trying to get extra grants, certainly the mound has been moved and construction equipment is on site, a 9 month project.

[apron alpha]

rumours of 7th based aircraft for summer circulating, anybody heard anything?

[apron alpha]

malta from pik? looks like the holiday destinations are going to be the focus from now on, any news on the turkish flights? gla or pik getting them?

[james170969]

I read a few months ago that Turkish Airlines were considering a route from Istanbul to Glasgow. Is this the flight you mean or is it a route to the likes of Dalaman or Izmir?

[GnRdL]

@apron alpha: rumours of 7th based aircraft for summer circulating, anybody heard anything?

I saw a sixth frequency between Prestwick-Alicante from early May -previously they add the fifth frequency from the end of March-. But I don't know exactly if they gonna put a 7th aircraft.

[Runway 31]

I see the Ryanair thread is indicating that there could be a new 2 x weekly flight to Malta stating April..

This would be very good news if it comes to fruition

[apron alpha]

a quote from ian cochrane on pik website seems to suggest that pik was getting turkish flights when the xtra ryanair flights were being announced, no idea of airline or how many flights but i reckon turkey from pik would be very successful, i posted before on the 7th based aircraft at pik, it must be close now, any body have an idea how much of the globespan gaps have been taken up, at pik ang gla, and how much is left? has ryanair or viking,thomson,easy jet gobbled it up?

[Skipness One Echo]

any body have an idea how much of the globespan gaps have been taken up, at pik ang gla, and how much is left? has ryanair or viking,thomson,easy jet gobbled it up?

The fact that the overcapacity in the market has gone has to be a good thing. Noticed there were FIVE Ryanair B73Hs buttoned up outside the hangar on Saturday with engines wrapped up.

[Random Flyer]

Are Ryanair definitely going to build this hanger at PIK? I know they said they will, but the tone of the following makes me think Dublin might still get the new maintenance facility.

[Aftershock]

New hangar already started being built and announced by Ryanair.

See Ryanairs own site:

News : Ryanair Announces Second £8M Prestwick Hangar (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-second-8m-pounds-prestwick-hangar)

[apron alpha]

im down at it just now plenty of jcbs and equipment on site. Aer arran shifting cork service 2 glasgow in air lingus link up. bit of a blow that maybe ryanir mite stick a route in 2 cover it. Very impressive american hard ware in the atlas tech stops. new jeeps replacing the hummers.

[Random Flyer]

im down at it just now plenty of jcbs and equipment on site. Aer arran shifting cork service 2 glasgow in air lingus link up. bit of a blow that maybe ryanir mite stick a route in 2 cover it. Very impressive american hard ware in the atlas tech stops. new jeeps replacing the hummers.


Thanks for the information regarding the new hangar, appreciated.

Aer Arann dropped PIK-Cork a while ago, it had nothing to do with the new GLA-Cork route. Aer Arann will continue to fly from PIK with their thrice weekly Donegal flight.

[apron alpha]

donegals a goner in may. Aer arran in total pull out. all now from gla.

[Random Flyer]

donegals a goner in may. Aer arran in total pull out. all now from gla.


Really?! I'm not saying your wrong but having just checked the Aer Arann website, PIK-Donegal is still on sale in June and July. I havent checked other months.

Wed, 16 Jun, 2010 (Fare Rules (http://www.aerarann.com/skylights/cgi-bin/skylights.cgi#))
14:10 Glasgow Prestwick ( PIK)
15:05 Donegal ( CFN)
1 Adult(s)
Tax£17.49 GBP
£ 27.95 GBP Fri, 16 Jul, 2010 (Fare Rules (http://www.aerarann.com/skylights/cgi-bin/skylights.cgi#))
12:55 Donegal (CFN)
13:45 Glasgow Prestwick (PIK)
1 Adult(s)
Tax£17.49 GBP
£ 26.76 GBP

[apron alpha]

21st may they leave and tie up with aer lingus, at gla, not good news. A mixed bag of good news and bad news for pik in the last week. is that likely 2 stir ryanair or not?

[james170969]

I've just checked Aer Arann from Prestwick to Donegal, Sunday 15th August to Friday 20th August. The flights are definately leaving and arriving at Prestwick on those dates. You can check their website for yourself if you want. What makes you think that Aer Arann are transferring this route to Glasgow?

[apron alpha]

ceo buisness update, announcing, new hangar, new frequeinces on 5 routes. panallpina moving 2 stn and tech stops. It came out yesterday. like i said. a mixed bag of news!

[nivsy]

Out of interest does any one know who has won the tender to actually build the hangar facility at PIK? None of the news reports that I have seen actually say who will be doing the construction. I would have thought that building the facility by October is quite good going.

Nivsy

[james170969]

I'm not doubting for one minute that Aer Arann are going to start flights from Glasgow in partnership with Aer Lingus but if, as you say, Aer Arann are going to pack up and leave Prestwick on May 21st then why are the Donegal flights still from Prestwick in August. Go check the web site!! I have been led to believe that the Donegal flights are not part of the Aer Lingus partnership.

[Random Flyer]

I'm not doubting for one minute that Aer Arann are going to start flights from Glasgow in partnership with Aer Lingus but if, as you say, Aer Arann are going to pack up and leave Prestwick on May 21st then why are the Donegal flights still from Prestwick in August. Go check the web site!! I have been led to believe that the Donegal flights are not part of the Aer Lingus partnership.


Yes, the Aer Arann flights to PIK are Aer Arann's own flights. The flights to GLA are part of the new Aer Lingus partnership, so I doubt they will axe PIK just because EI fly to GLA.

[honest man]

The jeeps in the Atlas lumps are also been carried in the VDA AN124s and have been for a while i believe the 124s have been busy elsewhere and thats why Atlas started to pick them up

[Fly Through]

Aer Arran definitely leaving PIK to consolidate at PF, no matter what their website says.

[CabinCrewe]

Would fit with what Ive been hearing too- upship , everything to GLA. Watch this space....

[apron alpha]

fact; there leaving PIK and going to GLA hundred percent stick on fact

[james170969]

I'll believe it when I see it on their website! If their website doesn't say that they are leaving Prestwick then where exactly do you get your information and where can everyone else see or hear it for themselves?

[honest man]

I forgot to add what is the buisness plan to lose as many aircraft as possible because its been working for a few years now

[apron alpha]

heard from ryanair engineer that 7th based aircraft will be at pik for the summer. iv no facts on this, just what he said last nite. one fact that i do have and i have seen it with my own eyes is 21st may, aer arran are leaving pik. aer arrans operations now from gla. nothing to do with pik operations, but its the franchise aggreement with air lingus, no matter what there website says. il try and find out who is building new hangar and post it. anybody watch arsenal game last nite? how bad was fabianskli?:oh: