HONDA JET

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

So what happended to the Honda project. Engine and airframe.

Will in go into production or merge the technology with someone else. ?

Or is it just too much $$ even for Honda to think about certification and a production setup

[flyboyike]

If the AOPA Pilot article is any indication, I think production is fairly likely. The airplane looked waaaay too well-sorted to be just a "project".

[Kulwin Park]

BRING IT ON !!!! Do they have a website yet, or any info on it??

Cheers, Peter

[on21]

This is not a bad site:-
http://world.honda.com/jet/

[EricCartman]

we have published a fair amount of links to press about the HondaJet

imho.. i think that the Honda gang is too smart to get sucked into the VLJ hoopla..they are probably waiting to see how it shakes out.. in the interim.. they'll make engines for everyone naturally :ok: which is not something anyone would not want in their aircraft (think of all the engine failures you have experienced..then think of your trusty Honda whatever you have owned....)
the biggest differentiator with Honda (and Toyota et al) you'll notice is that they don't set dates, don't commit to press releases announcing things they'll do in the future.. which is very very smart, since when they hit the market, they'll hit it like a hammer, like they did with the Honda Civic back in the day which decimated the then weak US auto makers (who are getting decimated again btw!)... and let's not even get into the motorcycle sagas and stories.. let me know if these links are helpful.. and please excuse my rotten writing, attitude and overt criticism of sacred cows:
- Honda Establishes Aviation Engine Business Subsidiary in the U.S (http://www.rsvpair.com/content/view/98/25/)
- Air Taxi—Myth or New Market Niche? (http://www.rsvpair.com/pages/dipiazza1)
we have TONS of stuff on VLJ's / Honda and "Proletariat Air Taxi".. simply let me know and I can put more links in here for those who are interested

[Anotherpost75]

Eric.

Nice post and great links. Your offer of even more links on VLJ's / Honda and "Proletariat Air Taxi".. would certainly be appreciated by me.

Best regards

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

But is the Honda aimed at that VLJ part of the market or just above it.

Besides with a brand such as Honda, surely they have a foothole in any market over other new outfits. Especially those who offer flight / certification dates and then constantly push them back (not to mention are solely funded on desposit payments).

As for the 'patented' over wing design. I guess this must be specific to the aircraft category. After all the Russians have produced over wing types and can I remember seeing a French or US design with such ?

ps it they hit the market with Honda Civic prices, I'll take 2

[EricCartman]

Eric.
Nice post and great links. Your offer of even more links on VLJ's / Honda and "Proletariat Air Taxi".. would certainly be appreciated by me.
Best regards

Thank you and glad to help. We have long struggled to get the word out on the truth (or at least what the facts are) on matters VLJ (there is a lot of hype).

Here's a great one: most new light aircraft that entice rich people to get into higher performance machines go through a lawn dart phase, which is why insurers feel like this -> :eek: when they think about the risk analysis of so many underqualified people going so fast.

The news stories on the topic can be found here: http://www.rsvpair.com/news be sure to investigate the Manufacturing and Air Taxi links.. there is a group in the States actually trying to make a go of it air taxi wise with SR22's etc..which is great as long as it is DAY / VFR but they could be a good template for a working VLJ like a Honda . . . but making the model viable first will be key (you can see more on them here (http://www.satsair.com).)

Surely Eclipse will :mad: themselves if Honda pulls the trigger.. but my personal opinion is that nothing gets interesting until new equipment (yes, from Japan!) starts being sold for $500,000 to $750,000 USD.. then we can all pile into the biz.

I put http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat_Air_Taxi in the wikipedia.. mainly to draw public attention to all of this stuff and I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_taxi this also has a lot more background on the big issues preventing a Honda type player from jumping in
the BIG problem (dichotomy), as I see it, is the commercialization of these airplanes vs. the "rich guy or gal with a need for one in the barn."

While the latter market is big, it is dwarfed by the air taxi potential. (A quick comparison of the 500 Lear 35's still flying vs. 1000's of 737's.. well you get the idea). My favorite example is the Lear windsheild story... about $20,000 for Lear 60 window.. same size / type of pane on a 737? about $2000... you can see where the disease in corporate goes way way back... and starts on the mfr's floor.. once that part is fixed (i.e. Toyota / Honda :ok: ) then big things will happen. Got nothing against the yanks (part yank myself).. I just think innovation is dying here (ok there, I am in Montreal after all.).. And the really difficult part of that is that they cover 70% of the GA market worldwide...

More to follow .. I am thinking of doing a blog like www.richardaboulafia.com (http://www.richardaboulafia.com) does so that I can make posts in here and then invite folks to comment there. He also does a free monthly newsletter which I'd encourage anyone with an aerospace / manufacturing interest to check out.

[EricCartman]

But is the Honda aimed at that VLJ part of the market or just above it.
Besides with a brand such as Honda, surely they have a foothole in any market over other new outfits. Especially those who offer flight / certification dates and then constantly push them back (not to mention are solely funded on desposit payments).
As for the 'patented' over wing design. I guess this must be specific to the aircraft category. After all the Russians have produced over wing types and can I remember seeing a French or US design with such ?
ps it they hit the market with Honda Civic prices, I'll take 2
good points MEON VALLEY
here's my take:

the market they'll go after will probably be more "Civic"-ish in nature (that is where the big bucks are .. mass production..then they can encroach on the US in planes just like they have just completed on cars (remember.. after North America and Western Europe.. there will be India, et al to sell planes too.)
the overwing thing is mainly to pick up more fuselage cabin space, not sure about litigating against the Ruskies, they are more concerned with Embraer et al copying I think (just think of all the jets you know with limited aft space due to engine mounting issues the big ass carry through spar, etc.)
the market "just above" I don't think exists - with the average American getting poorer by the day - and the opulent class finally being reeled in (there is only so long you can sustain $1,000,000/yr salaries and $50/day Mexicans in the same building in a global world) things are looking rather slow for the "i'll just fart around in my jet" kinda folks (on this note I might be totally wrong..after all I am a pilot turned entrepreneur, not an economist.. but that is my sense.. Roman Empire and all that..)

[EricCartman]

this has surely got everyone ticked off.. but...

Richard doesn't get paid to write fluff:

http://www.richardaboulafia.com/shownote.asp?id=211

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

By 'above the VLJ' market. I meant a usable small sized aircraft for the corporate / small business owner / wealthy individual type. Not a bargain basement / air taxi myth $1 mil pocket rocket from a new start company.
Hell even the Mustang isn't really at that bottom end.

It's always good to see someone / something new on the market. But only if it's done right.
That's what makes business people like me look up and say I want do that (with whatever product / market your in)