43 Air School - SA (Merged)

[leonsniff]

Im just posting this thread to check if any1 has any info on the 43 air school in port alfred? Myself and 5 others are due to head out there mid march. Im just trying to get any tips or anything like that. What to expect and what the weather is like there! If there are any useful websites or other forums please let me know as i cant actually find any. Thanks in advance for all your help!

[wheels up]

Try avcom.co.za - I am sure that you will be able to trace a couple of die-hard 43rd airschool fans there!

One of the best schools in SA - never heard anyone complain about the quality of the training, but relatively expensive. Spent 2 weeks preparing for my com test there - good school, nice coastal location, if not a bit isolated. Being on the coast, weather can be variable. Some might find the pseudo military type environment a bit offputting, especially if you don't like wearing a flying overhaul, others love it.

If you want a total aviation environment then this could be the school for you.

Are you going there for commercial or private training?

[collie77]

Hi Wheels up
Im also one of the 6 going. We're actually going as cadet Cityjet pilots. Its the first time they've run the programme so we're kinda guinea pigs! We talked to 2 Irish guys who went to the 43airschool and they said it was really good and top notch. Its good to hear someone else is saying the same. Can't wait to go now!

[Leezyjet]

I know they do some of their commercial training at Port Elizabeth Airport - they use it for ILS approaches etc. If you land there, pop into Algoa Flying club and say hello, they are all a friendly bunch.

If you get chance, pop down to Port Elizabeth for a night out, there are a few bars down by the beach front. Take a trip to the Golden Curtain or the Go Go Lounge too. :ok:

You will enjoy South Africa, although Port Alfred is a little off the beaten track.

There are some of my pics from my last trip down there in this thread :-
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207786

Good luck.

:)

[leonsniff]

Thanks for all the help everyone but we would still appreciate any more comments or tips on what 'extras' to bring down there with us. Even other links to sites that there are discussions on 43 would be helpfull. Thanks in advance.

[learboys]

Hi there
well you will be arriving at the begining of winter, not cold at all, between 10 -20 degrees c, seldom cold. Take rain coats as it is the rain season and it can rain for days. Between you bunch I would suggest you buy a car there, a rust bucket(A cheep car less than a 1000 pounds) as you will find it to be a quite town and you will want to go to PE and down to Plet where it all happens over weekends.

As for the flying its good and they have a large fleet of aircraft, You realise you will be doing an ICAO licence and not a JAR licence, which means you will have to write 2 CPL AND 2 IR tests in order to get the JAR licence.

You will have lots of fun there, beer is cheep about R6.00 (60 UK cents)
Close to the beach and the water is nice and warm, fishing is good and playing golf is cheap.

Go have fun in the sun

[leonsniff]

Thanks-keep the comments and tips coming

[dct liv]

hi leonsniff congrats on geting the position. if u dont mind, what back ground did ureself and the other five have, saw the advert for it but didnt apply cause of the huge costs, best of luck in thr training

[springbok234]

Right,

you can relax, 43 is by far the best school in SA, especially as far as job opportunities world wide goes as well. There are some other very good schools in the area and in Johanneburg, but Ive flown at a few and dont feel (IN MY OPINION), they offer quite as good a product as 43.

A correction to a previous posting. Although privately funded, SAA and Kenya Airways students do the SACAA ICAO CPL, IR + ME Rating, the students coming from Ireland, which I presume you are one of them, WILL BE DOING A FULLY COMPLIANT JAA/JAR CPL/ATPL course. The course material will be from the UK and the school has been evaluated by the IRISH CAA for the last few months in order for them to provide JAA/JAR training.

So you can relax that you will have a great time having the best of both worlds, not only in flying conditons and weather, but the JAA licence without conversion and at one of the top schools around. You also get the "fun" of living in a small town, whch can be intersting with beautiful beaches, with Port Elizabeth ( 1 1/2 hours) and Grahamstown (1/2 hour) not far away to party!!

But believe me, after PPL, you wont have much time to party, 43 run a tight ship and will take good care of you, you can trust your coming to a good school!!

BTW, I am at 43 now in the worst phase (Ground School)...and Im surviving!!!

In a bit!! :ok:

See you guys in a couple of weeks!

[MilesDavis]

I am also one of the 5 heading down, thanks to all above for the info and well wishes.
Springbok is correct in that we will be doing the JAR CPL/IR with ATPL exam credit, can't wait!
Miles

[Leezyjet]

Leonsniff,

There are a couple of stores in South Africa that sell some pretty handy flying clothes. Cape Union Mart in one that sells light weight trousers that are great for flying in, and then zip off into shorts. They have loads of big pockets on the sides too to keep things in.

They are handy to wear when flying, as you get the benefit of long trousers when flying, then when you arrive at your nice hot destination, just zip off the bottoms and voila a pair of shorts without having to take extra along.

They also sell some nice safari style shirts, which again are great for flying in, as they have lots of pockets and are lightweight and comfortable.

If you pay a visit to Jeffries Bay, there are a few outlet shops from most of the major surfing companies too to stock up on cheap shorts and t-shirts for the time off round the pool or on the beach. There is also a shop chain called Mr. Price that sell cheap clothes too.

Clothes in South Africa are dirt cheap, so pack lightly.

:)

[birdlady]

Springbok

Correct me if Im wrong but did you say that 43 offers a fully compliant JAA CPL, one in which you dont have to convert once you return to Ireland...... that sounds too good to be true........... :D :ok: :ok:

[OscarP]

We are two Scandinavian guys planning on moving to South Africa in 6 months time for CPL studies. We are both really excited about this and want to be prepared in every way possible. We were hoping maybe we could get some help here.

The first step would of course be to choose what school to attend. We're looking for high standard CPL / IR / ME training. The price is of course of great important as well as what the school has to offer post graduation. A school with a hour building program students can attend for free once they have their licenses would be very attractive. Are there such?

We have found a school in Durban North called Federal Air Flight Training School. The school seems good in many ways and the impression we’ve got after speaking with representatives is all positive. Has anyone heard about that school? What have you heard? How is flight training and life at Virginia Airport in general?

We’ve also been in contact with 43 Air School which seems very professional but a bit expensive compared to the others. Progress Flight Academy , Airline Pilot Training Centre in Port Elizabeth, TH Aviation ConneXions, Algoa Flight Centre, Sky Africa Flight Training, Lanseria Flight Center, Avex Air Training & Virginia Flight School. Are there any of those schools you would recommend / not recommend? Does the quality at schools vary a lot?

By the way, what usually happens to students once they have graduated? We’ve learned the once from outside South Africa can’t work there but are they wanted elsewhere in Africa / the World with a South African CPL-license?

Many thanks and greetings from snowy Scandinavia!

[leonsniff]

Just confirming there that 43 dont actully offer a JAR course. 5 of us are due to arrive the 17th of March as part of Sigmar Aviation. We are doing a 'tailor made' course down there and WILL be doing the JAR licences but unless your in the Sigmar programme there is no other way around it other than a conversion. Thanks to all for their replys-myself and the others cant wait to get down there-so might speak to some of ye very shortly. Regards.

[lionco]

Great place to fly, no doubt about that.
43 Air School IS a very professional outfit. You won't go wrong with them. A very remote but very beautifull location. I would choose Virginia Flight School for hour building.
Remember that although you will be able to fly around most of Africa on an SA comm, there are loads of SAfricans looking for that work let alone the Ozzies and other Europeans with JAR licences.
Best of luck
Lionco:ok:

[B2N2]

Back in my say (which is not too long ago) anything South African was not particularly welcome in the rest of Africa.
This considering the apartheid history in South Africa.
Have you asked on the "Africa" forum what the chances are of employment on a SA CPL in the rest the continent?

[lionco]

B2N2
It's been 12 years since the ANC gov took over. Whilst I know that "the legacy of apartheid" will live forever, South African pilots are the majority flying around the continent. Now that Saffers suffer affirmative action, flying work in SA is scarce and even more of them looking on the continent.
Basically IMHO
Work in SA (foriegn newbie with SA-CPL) - No chance
Work on the continent (foriegn newbie with SA-CPL) - maybe
:ok:
OscarP
Check out the thread re 43 on this forum.
1/ I did my SA CPL there
2/ I know Bruce at Virginia Flight School, good guy.:ok:
Oh.............3/ I've also done africa.;)
Lionco

[wheels up]

B2N2

Things obviously changed a bit since your time! Saffers all over the continent in a multitude of industries, and I have had a friendly reception in most of the African countries that I have visited. Gone are the days when you used to have to pull the SA labels off your goods before heading north of the Limpopo - they now sell them in the shops. DSTV everywhere as well.

[captwannabe]

Looking for information/opinions on 43 Air School in South Africa.

[MilesDavis]

I am an Irish student at 43 with Sigmar, pm me if you like. The school is top notch.

Miles

[Dobo]

Hi Prunners
Can anybody give first hand account of the FTO in Port Alfred? I know there was an initial group from Ireland headed that way earlier this year, I believe it was managed by Sigmar Aviation Dublin, in close ties with Cityjet...maybe you have some background on it you could share or better still maybe you are studying there....I am considering it for Integrated to fATPL

Would love to hear from you if you're in the know!
Dobo

[captwannabe]

Have a search for the 43 Air School Thread. I was talking to them at the FLYER Show and they seemed like a very professional organisation, but are a bit pricey.

[Ross Nelson]

I went to 43- finished licence there late June last year. It is a really good school for airline cadets to go to- you'll come out a very good procedures pilot! I flew with the guy who does the JAA training and he is a top class instructor (been doing it for over 10 years!)
Port Alfred Town is tiny though- nothing alive except the flying school and a few dodgy bars.
It is more expensive than most South African ones, but it is leagues better and the airlines know it!!
Ground training is also great- ex military guys do the lectures.
You get to do some really awesome flights, and the weathers good for crosswind practice! They also train their own maintenance guys so everythings really well maintained.
Don't go out expecting to get a job in Africa though. :sad:

[MilesDavis]

Dobo, I am an Irish student here in the 43 right now with sigmar. The school is top knotch you won't be dissapointed. PM me if you want any details.

It really is fantastic here.

Miles

[birdlady]

Dobo,

The course your talking about is indeed up and running but at a price of 95 000 euros if Im not mistaken. :yuk: :yuk:(this is without a type rating) Ridiculous rip off but I suppose that is the price you have to pay for a JAA licence with POSSIBLE employement at city jet once the course is completed. :rolleyes: :* :* 43 does have a good rep but you can get a school just as good (if not better) and at a much cheaper price. As with any school you will find critics but I do beleive that in this case its not worth the money. It really depends on the kind of person you are and whether your the type who has to be spoon fed or are willing to take it upon yourself and work your bo**ox off on your own initative. Personally, I can see this scheme ending in tears but then I've been living in Africa too long and may be a little cynical. :( :( Do not get me wrong, the training here is first class but like anywhere you do get your bad eggs.

You might find this site interesting as you will find a good deal of info on all your queries. Shameless plug but what the hell............... www.avcom.co.za

:ok: :ok:

[captwannabe]

There are places in Europe where you can do an integrated course for a lower price. Also, I think the latter part of your training is in Galway IRL, and the MCC is in Dublin with Parc (who seem to have a bad rep. according to some of the posts on PPRuNe). The Cityjet scheme was a sort of trial run by the airline who selected a bunch of Irish guys to undertake the course (at their own expense). I suppose that if you were given a good recommendation by the staff at 43 you would have a good chance at getting a job with Cityjet, but the same can be said for other FTOs. I do think that 43 would provide excellent quality training, but there are better overall alternatives at the moment. The course there is quite new and it may take a few years for the airlines to really take notice.

(MD - Kind of Blue?) :ok:

[MilesDavis]

Hi guys,
The JAR course here which I'm on is run completly independant of CityJet though some of us have been lucky enough to be preselected by the airline. The 43 is not a JAR FTO. Sigmar Aviation are the first Irish Integrated FTO and outsource the majority of training to the 43 Airschool. The IR exam is done in Inveren in Galway and the JAR written exams in Dublin, but apart from that all training is carried out in Port Alfred.

The course is expensive. No argument there. It is priced the same as FTE Jerez and OAT roughly. As to it not including a type rating, neither of the two above schools do either, a moot point frankly. Only consider it if you're really interested in the financial hardships of integrated training.

The MCC is not done with PARC.

Happy flying folks:ok:
Miles

[Dobo]

Miles
Not sure if you are one of the 'Famous Five' that I have read about on the very extensive and lengthy thread covered on 'Flying in IRL' that I was just kindly directed to? If so, hats off to you guys, there must have been a distinct feeling of being the guinea pigs on this one. I see the distinction that Sigmar is actually the FTO and not 43 ( which had a good many SA's getting excited at the thought of a JAA approved FTO down there.....unfortunately not).

Can I ask the following: Would you put a lot of the 'negative press' that this programme had received down to the ineffeciencies of Sigmar (uncertain and changed dates/ lack of real info) or are there other deeper problems with the school there that need ironing out? There was a lot of people with reservations, myself included, when I explored it, but I can't help feeling now that it's simply teething problems and no more?

You sound happy and content there which is reassuring, as unlike OAT & FTE, it's just too far to travel to check out. So there is that additional element of risk that when you get down there you won't like it, and it's by then too late. Are there any significant critisms or is all running smooth for the first group.

Any hidden snags? If you don't make min hours or have to sit additional exams, does it hit finances hard?

What major European airlines, if any, have cadets training there?

Appreciate the help and hope the PPL is going well

Dobo

[MilesDavis]

The famous five, jeebus didn't know we were called that.

Yes all there were some teething problems as we are the lab rats alright. Were they serious? Not at all. My uniform trousers took a week or too longer to arrive. Not exactly crucial stuff. The important stuff, groundschool and flying training no complaints at all, very happy altogether. The Bristol materials are really great. Though I have the first batch of folders for them as well as my SA Comm folders which is a rather intimidating amount of paper on my desk but just gotta get on with it.

As regards "negative press" most I read was by people who frankly did not know what they were talking about. People very unhappy with cost of integrated training (who is?) and others who didn't make it through sigmars selection.

There's always a worry being the first of any program but so far it's all good.

Miles

[collie77]

Hi Dobo
I am also one of the "famous five" if thats what you wanna call us! The negativity that was put on flying in ireland, if you read, was by a small number of people who have hardly any flying experience. Read carefully and you will see its the same few people who place threads and they really don't know what they are talking about. Our ground instructors here are all ex South African Air Force. The 3 that we have are all retired colonels. Where else would you get that experience? The school is extremly professional and have done everything and more for us here. South African Airways currently have cadets here and British Airways Comair have trained cadets here. Do some research on the two airlines and you will see that they rank up there with any European airline. I have been here 6 weeks now and have found everything about this school excellent and have absolutly no complaints. If you need anymore info PM me, I would be happy to talk on the phone etc. about any questions you haveor anyone else out there.

[leonsniff]

Hi all,

Dobo, Again im on the course along with Miles. I agree with everything he has said! I cant say much more with out repeating everyone, re the airschool! All of us had our reservations before coming down here 6 weeks ago! Me included-i can assure u that this school is of the highest standard, the instructors and the facilities are nothing short of amazing! The school has alot to offer but unfortunately the only way of getting JAR licences at the end is through Sigmar Aviation in dublin! At the moment there are 5 of us down here and Sigmar intend to have 20 students here by x-mas of this year!

As Miles said there were a few issues that needed to be sorted out but we have already been visited by our course director and also had the cheif examiner of the IAA here last week! Also the Chief training captain of CityJet is due down here the 6th of June! So all is going wel on that front!

What you wil read on the Flying in Ireland forum is from a select few individuals who have no basis for their claims. There are 5 of us down here who KNOW what is going on and if u have any questions at all contact any of the 5 of us!

Best of luck with the decisions u have to make!

[Dobo]

Miles
Just popped you a PM
Dobo

[WexCan]

Hey all,

Heading to an interview/assesment with Sigmar on the 12th - any tips? :cool:

I hate to ask but I'm curious, but did any of you take the Paul Kinane finance option and how painful was it?

Thanks in advance :)

[collie77]

Great setup down here, you wont be disappointed! Check your PMs.

[captwannabe]

How are ye Sigmar guys getting on in South Africa?

Unrelated question: Has anyone trained for a SA CPL/IR and converted to JAA? How much does it cost to train for SA CPL/IR, and how much to convert?

Regards

[GgW]

SA CPL/IR about 20 000,00 pounds flight tickets +accom.
To Convert CPL/IR MCC + Groundschool. 10-11 000 pounds.

Might be a bit more expensive but you will end up with loads of multi time.
Cheers
GgW

[captwannabe]

Flights and accom weren't included in that £20k? Did you train at 43? Where did you convert?

Cheers :ok:

[GgW]

Flights and accom weren't included in that £20k? Did you train at 43? Where did you convert?


No I did not train with 43 and working with a exchange rate of 1 to approx 13 and 600 pounds for a plane ticket than you will more or less get to 20000 pounds. Do a google search for schools in South Africa. R220 000.00 to R240 000.00 is about what it cost in SA to go from 0-CPL.
Accomodation included.

To convert , there is many schools in the UK that will do it.

PM me and I will give you my training ''plan''

Cheers
GgW

[Leezyjet]

At the school I use in SA, you can get a studio flat with a pool for about £200/month that is a 15 min walk from the school or they can lend you a mountain bike to cycle it.

Try a searh for Algoa Flight School or Algoa Flying Club in Port Elizabeth.

:D

[EI-Shamrock]

How are the Sigmar guys getting on? How far along have you come in training?

Who do you complete the IR and licence conversion with? Where do you do the MCC? How often do Sigmar run the courses?

(Please post on the Flying In Ireland forums too if you have the time!)

[PLATO_Y2K]

Just been to the flyer show this weekend, with a list full of questions for everyone. Come back with a lot of answers, a clearer idea of what is going on and the start of my plan of action. However spent some time chatting to the guy at Sigmar aviation about their new Jet Pilot Programme and must admit I am intrigued. It might just me the south african blood in my viens trying to convince me to choose this company (they do their flight training in SA)

My question is: any comments, opinions, rumours, people already on the course? Pretty much fishing for as much info as I can get at the moment. Searched for them on here and came up with very little.

My major reservation is that they only have 4 courses going at the moment and none of them have finished. I have been a guinea pig for my university course and am not keen to do it with an FTO.

Any comments ect. would be great

Cheers :)

Plato

[PLATO_Y2K]

No-one?:confused:

[MediQ]

I think there are one or two threads on this forum. Try searching for Sigmar or 43 Air School.

There's also a thread http://flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1198 here.

The guys down in SA try to post regularly but are obviously very busy. I'm sure they'd be happy to answer your questions.

The 43 Air School has an excellent reputation I've heard. The only downside I can see is the price Sigmar are charging. If you did the same training but went through 43 directly you could save almost half the cost of Sigmars course. Of course you would then have to convert your licence in a JAA state and presumably do an MCC. I've heard Progress Flight Academy are also excellent (a lot of places in SA seem to have a very good rep).

Hope this helps!

[Essendon]

I've just having a look at Sigmar's website for this Jet Pilot Programme, they have a few newsletters the studnets have made up and the piece on TV3 in Ireland. http://www.jetpp.com/sigmar/download.html Looks like they are having a ball. I emailed the [email protected] will be interesting to hear how they are all going and about job prospects too.