BA Domestic check in ??? (April 2nd)

[Bumz_Rush]

On CNN ? or was it BBC World, (not certain, sorry), today April 2nd....BA domestic check in to be fully DIY.

If the date is correct and the story is correct, then total chaos will result.

Bumz

[Bumz_Rush]

pax and SLF....sorry......but the confusion there just mirrors my thoughts....
Bumz

[Rainboe]

Are you sure chaos is in order? These are smaller domestic flights. As long as there are a couple of self-service units where you can select your seat after inputting your details, and a place to drop off bags, and a desk to sort out any problems, why should it not work when it has been successfully trialed elsewhere? It's the way of the future.

[BusyB]

Well Rainboe, it certainly hasn't been successfully trialled in T4. The last 2 times I've attempted to use it the machine has failed and I've joined the back of a queue in excess of 45mins long!

[dakar]

Probably getting ready to T5!!!!. Understand less checkin desks more self service, fast bag drop with more passengers checking in in line.:ok:

[Rainboe]

As far as I know it has been successfully introduced at North Terminal Gatwick. How can it not work as long as the infrastructure is in place? I don't need someone to say 'Good Morning' to me and 'did you pack your bags yourself?' and allocate a seat when a machine can print it out perfectly well. I was at Gatwick recently when the reservations computers went down- we all stood watching some 20 check-in agents sitting there yawning watching us. It is now a function that cannot be done manually when the computers go down, so we might as well leave it to the computers to do the whole thing and save their pay for low cost tickets!

[tristar500]

Trust me - I work for BA in Scotland, and it is true that from 26 April 2006, ALL domestic pax MUST check in either on-line with home/office printed boarding passes OR use Self Service Kiosks at the airport. Passengers who manage to 'Penetrate' the uni-cue leading to a check-in desk, will be sent back to the kiosks to check in. The reasons are as follows: Check in desks are being given back to the BAA for other airlines, cheaper to operate than a check in desk, and less staff required to man the operation. Also T5 at LHR is taking all the money from within the company, which itself will be mainly 'Self-Service'. All the out stations are beavering away, trying to make this work, saving money and paving the way for mass job losses!

It will not work. Self-Service targets are set on a daily basis and each station must do their best to try and meet them (most station managers are graded on this performance as part of their bonus award...) You can imagine the pressure staff are under to make it work. Passengers dont want to use the 'machines' especially the elderly and passengers who dont have credit cards or computers are being discriminated against.

My co-workers and I see it every day, and now we are being forced into making passengers use a system they clearly dont like. There is no choice now. They chose to use BA but have no choice in how to check in. The most common comment is that they would rather have the personal contact at check-in with a member of staff. Self-Service cant advise of delays, problems or anything else for that matter. Foreign passengers also find it difficult with only a handful of the most common European languages catered for. Even then, most of their credit cards (used for ID) dont work.

BA isnt offering customer service now on the ground and the number of passengers commenting is ridiculous. No care is taken in ensuring the passenger is satisfied with their BA experience. Its turn up at the airport, go to a machine, put your card in, drop your bag off if you have one, and head for the boarding gate...

Lets not forget that you need to cue to use the machines, (if it works, if not, cue to see a staff member at a recovery desk) then cue to drop baggage off, cue to get through security and cue to board the flt... Is it really a quicker way of doing things? Ask any member of staff (in Scotland at least) and the answer will be - I think not! Once again BA management you have spent millions on a system that will replace staff - and you know it - but at the end of the day, you can never have enough staff to interact with the passenger - the passenger who pays your highly inflated wages:ok:

[FLEXJET]

I am almost certain BA will loose customers because of this decision and
I agree it will cause operational problems.
Some agents today live a crazy situation : they are asked by under-pressure managers to invite all passengers to self-check while full self-checking implementation will destroy their jobs...

[FormerFlyer]

Well before the advent of DIY or phone/online check in you always had to queue to see a human at a desk - so what's the huge problem if you have to queue to DIY it?

Am convinced there are now more self service machines than there were desks at some departure points - however if you've got a net connection & are flying BA then why on earth (when you can) would you not do it online from the comfort of your own home/office??

It's the only way I'll do it now, when I have the option - means I can cut arrival at airport down so I don't have to faff around as long. I've just checked in for my DOH-LHR tonight and I only have to pitch up at the terminal 75 minutes prior departure - by the time I've stood for a couple of mins in the Club World queue to pick up my boarding pass (which is where they all pick them up regardless of class of travel), got through security, splashed the rest of my cash in duty free, then found the gate I will be on my way to the a/c.

As a frequent-ish SLF BA have understood my needs - at least they've managed it once :E

cheers ;)
FF

[Bumz_Rush]

....but the non computer, possible non literate passenger who needs reasurance that all is well.

Also what about the situation when the ticket was issued on line, and the credit card was a company officer, and the company did not know the FF number.

I have several times received a phone call from my company giving me a flight number, and a locator number. This is not enough to take the DIY route.
If this is the only route to actually get on board the aircraft, where do I stand in relation to actually being permitted to board. (reference the out stations statement).

Flexjet can keep us up to date as to the efficiency of the out stations.

Bumz

[FormerFlyer]

....but the non computer, possible non literate passenger who needs reasurance that all is well.
Also what about the situation when the ticket was issued on line, and the credit card was a company officer, and the company did not know the FF number.
I have several times received a phone call from my company giving me a flight number, and a locator number. This is not enough to take the DIY route.
If this is the only route to actually get on board the aircraft, where do I stand in relation to actually being permitted to board. (reference the out stations statement).
Flexjet can keep us up to date as to the efficiency of the out stations.
Bumz

So what on earth do you need to DIY at the terminal then? Online I only need to remember my PNR & flight number - the rest I know (where from & on which date I'm flying!). If terminal DIY kiosk needs more info then someone at BA IT needs to have a look & sort it - seems stupid needing different info depending how you wanna check in.

cheers ;)
FF

[WHBM]

I have several times received a phone call from my company giving me a flight number, and a locator number. This is not enough to take the DIY route.Me too but I find it is enough to do the DIY route. If you have BA Exec card it finds you in one go. If not put credit card in then enter locator and/or flt no and name.

[gdiphil]

WHBM - you say "put credit card in then enter locator and/or flt no and name." Will any credit card do? What if I've got a flight booked by my company on account? Can I still use my personal credit card to access the BA system?

[Bumz_Rush]

...I remember that the booking must have been linked to the specific credit card, OR the FF card...

So any old credit card would not work....now what happens if you have lost the original credit card, and had a new one issued...OR AND not a BA FF, but an alliance flyer.....

Bumz

[Crepello]

Bit of an echo:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=218190

To my knowledge, the latest generation of check-in software can read any credit card or affiliated FF plastic - it's just looking for the name.

As banks discovered with ATMs, automated check-in can be a service enhancement if it's done right. Hopefully BA have their act together and will prove the doomsayers wrong.

[Llademos]

Crepello's correct - the machine (BA, anyway) is only looking for confirmation of identity, so any CC, debit card etc will do.

The fallback is that, if the machine breaks, doesn't get the right (or enough) information etc etc it will tell you to go to a Customer Service (was check in) desk ... which should only have a short queue as most people can check in online.

I hope this will also speed up the current misnomer that is 'fast' bag drop too.

I think this will be the airline equivalenmt of chip and pin - dire warnings of doom and gloom before it's discovered that other people aren't as dim as we all like to think.

[WHBM]

WHBM - you say "put credit card in then enter locator and/or flt no and name." Will any credit card do? What if I've got a flight booked by my company on account? Can I still use my personal credit card to access the BA system?
Yes. As long as the card matches the reservation name, nothing to do with the original booking card nowadays (although they used to work this way). So whether it's MR. A. B. Gdiphil or MR Y. Z. Gdiphil doesn't matter, even though the booking may have been made by JKL Industries Ltd (in your name of course). This is why the extra questions are asked about the flight compared to your BA Exec card, which can obviously pick up your res in one go. I don't know how it handles multiple Mr Smiths on one flight.

First time users seem to think they are going to be charged for something. They're not of course.

[Railgun]

Crepello's correct - the machine (BA, anyway) is only looking for confirmation of identity, so any CC, debit card etc will do.

Debit cards ie switch and maestro dont work in the machines. I believe the new softwear to be introduced this month will possibly solve these issues.

If the Reservation is made as Mr T Day and the card name reads Mr Tomorrow Day it will not link the card to the reservation at present. I am not sure if this will change. Probably not i would have though.

[Crepello]

First time users seem to think they are going to be charged for something.
Maybe charge them for talking to desk agents if they're too dim to use the machines... :} :E

(Just kidding.)

[bealine]

Crepello's correct - the machine (BA, anyway) is only looking for confirmation of identity, so any CC, debit card etc will do.

This is only true for Travel Agents' or Third Party Bookings. Bookings made using ba.com require authorisation which the self-service kiosk carries out behind the scenes. For these bookings, if the correct credit card is not used, the passenger will be referred to a check-in agent who, if he/she doesn't see the right card, will need to get the Ticket Sales staff involved!

[Bumz_Rush]

To ease the conjestion at its airports BAA is severly reducing the carry on baggage permitted, or perhaps it is just enforcing the DOT regulations.

What ever the actual situation it will ease the security bottleneck. Lets hope.

Bumz

[flyyy]

as far as i know
- you can use any credit card, does not have to be the one you used to pay for the booking. only in some cases it is required to insert that card used to pay for the booking as well. that is some kind of fraud check, that sometimes also occurs when you check in at the traditional check-in counter. in general tough, any credit card with your name on will work.
- if you are booked in a group (of up to six people) you can use the credit card that was used to pay for the flight to check-in all passengers out of the group at the same time. if one group member has a frequent flier card that is also possible.
- if two passengers have the same surname it does not matter, but as soon as the passengers have the same initial of the first name the machine can't do the check in and sends the passenger to a check-in counter.
- you can also use the machines if travelling with infants

altough i was very unhappy about those machines first i have to say that they are getting better. connection flights can normally be checked-in at the same time, switch cards work as well...

[tristar500]

Let me just clarify on the 'Any Credit Card Will Do' point.

Its complete rubbish and take it from someone who works for the airline and is involved in the 'Way Ahead'...

[flyyy]

hey tristar. could you be a little bit more specific? why do you think the "any credit card will work" is complete rubbish?
if you are travelling in a group i have to say you are right, "any credit card" will only pick up the passenger that owns the credit card. but if the passenger is travelling alone one of his personal credit cards will be enough to check in. as long as the name on the card corresponds to the name in the booking of course.

[bealine]

At LGW, we are waiting with interest for "SSK Day".

Having "hosted" self-service on a number of occasions, I can reliably state that at least half the passengers will have to go to the "Assistance" desk as "Check In Incomplete"!!!

As long as the current machines and their dodgy software exist, our check-in jobs will be safe:ok: !

[pamann]

I've recently flown with BA from Manchester to london, used the on-line check-in which is great. One issue.... I was never once asked for photo ID at any stage. I could have been anyone as far as they we're concerned! (unless they just thought "oh hey, it's Pamann:hmm: "). Back on point tho, I thought all flights including domestic needed photo ID these days:confused: :confused: :confused: ???

[bealine]

Back on point tho, I thought all flights including domestic needed photo ID these days

Not true - BA management thinks everyone that travels on UK Domestic flights are nice people - naive idiots!

If you read "102 Minutes", the New York Times account of the survivors' stories of 09/11, you would realise that Al Qaeda started planning the twin towers atrocity in 1993 after failing in their bombing attempt in the underground garage of the World Trade Center.

For 7 years, their operatives travelled hither and thither by air, checking and re-checking how airlines carried out their tasks! They are probably still flying around, casually observing, making notes, plotting and planning.

Why are we making it easy for them?

[Railgun]

Let me just clarify on the 'Any Credit Card Will Do' point.
Its complete rubbish and take it from someone who works for the airline and is involved in the 'Way Ahead'...

It all depends where the ticket was booked. If booked on BA.com then the credit card that was used to check the pax in is needed.....

[pamann]

Ok so I booked the ticket on line with my credit card.
Two weeks later I checked in (24hrs prior) on line and all that was needed at this stage was my locator and surname , picked my seat and printed my boarding card. Now at this point "in theory" I could have given this to anyone to travel with.
Arrived Manchester, no bagge, just a carry on bag. Proceeded to security which they scanned my boarding pass, took a picture :O and stuck a bar code on my printed boarding pass. Now that's all fair, but who proved that I (Pam Ann) was the person who checked in on line.
Arrived at the boarding gate, bar code read my picture flashes up on screen :D . Ok so that's me who's arrived and gone through security, but still no proff that Pam Ann is indeed who I am. No form of ID asked for at any time:oh: !
Now in this day of hightened security I was shocked :oh: :oh: :oh: !
Being airline personnel I was actually amazed at this :eek: ! Afterall I was nearly refused a flight on RyanAir (also domestic) cos I could'nt find my passport!
And what infact if I had used a stolen credit card :eek: (not me of course but it happens)! God for bid I could have been anyone as far as they were concerned!

[Final 3 Greens]

Dear Pamann

I think that it is time for you to go an live in a nice, safe, dark bunker somewhere, where you will be safe from all the risks that you perceive.

In the past 4.5 years, there have been no further 9/11 incidents.

The system works, please do not aid the terrorists further by trying to tighten up the system, or they truly will have won.

I suppose that you will be insisting on airline type security for the local bus after 7/7?

[pamann]

If you have nothing constructive to say on this then go crawl back under that rock you've just popped up from:p !

What I'm asking is has the requirement for photo ID changed?

Afterall I can't even let a cleaner on on turn-around with no ID so why should Jo Bloggs be allowed on as a passenger with no ID:confused:

[Final 3 Greens]

I think my point is constructive - don't let the terrorists win by being frightened of life.

If you wish to know why you can't let a cleaner on without a pass, why not ask the organization that made that rule? And your MP, while you are at it, since the government ultimately make the transport rules and your MP can question ministers.

Perhaps it could have something to do with a stunt by a journalist who planted stuff on a plane a few years ago, whilst posing as a cleaner or caterer?

Apart from revenue protection, why do Ryanair and others insist on photo IDs for domestic flights? Compliance with UK Govt regulations? - nope.

Does it really matter that Pamann or JulieHoolie checked in, so long as you were security screened and remained the same person, as you described?

BTW, I am a frequent traveller, so do take security pretty seriously, as probability says its more likely to happen to me, than to most pax, but how paranoid do you want to be?

[Final 3 Greens]

mmmmm....

I checked in at T4 a few days ago (hand luggage only) and ended up waiting in a security line, including time in a tent for well over an hour, having checked in a -2.5hrs.

If I'd checked in at -45, I'd have missed the flight, as simple as that.

Anyway, we're talking international departures, so not directly relevant to Pamann's point.

[Final 3 Greens]

30 mins - that cant be secure can it ;)

Anyway, all the CCTV in the UK now can probably track the greenhouse gas generating offender known as the passenger from home to the airport, using number plate and face recognition technology to match them to their ticket, so I don't understand Pamann's problem anyway :}

Perhaps the cameras will issue a fixed penalty notice for the flight length - EDI, that will be a tenner, New York fifty etc :{

[bealine]

In the past 4.5 years, there have been no further 9/11 incidents.

FTG - I normally agree with your posts, but on this occasion you are being a fool!!!

The 09/11 atrocity took seven years of planning - don't let's forget that the organisation behind these Islamic extremist groups is very, very patient! They are just waiting for the vigilance to drop (as it is already due to commercial pressures and the very short memory frequent travellers have!)

[Final 3 Greens]

Bealine

Your'e entitled to your opinion, but I believe that Pamann and you are reacting hysterically.

Did you know that around 1,000 people die each year in accidents on UK roads?

That's about 4,500 since 9/11.

How many UK citizens are killed every year in terrorist attacks?

Ultimately, no one can stop a terrorist who is prepared to die - a point well made by the 7/7 bombs in London, but the numbers do not support your view.

I will not call you a fool, as I find that intemperate and insulting, but I do wonder how much you have thought through the argument.

Sure, I could be killed by terrorists next week, but the numbers suggest it is a far less probable event than dieing in a road accident.

Consequently, I am very suspicious of people who use "security" arguments to create a fear of the bogeyman and their underlying motives.

[patdavies]

FWIW, BA aren't the only ones...BMI do not require photo ID for domestic flights.

[bealine]

Okay - my apologies for the insult, FTG!

My opinion, FWIW, is based on fact. Having worked in the Armed Forces against the IRA (who suddenly find themselves converted from "terrorists" to a "political party" in the name of Sinn Fenn, and we are expected to forgive them!) I can tell you that terrorists, whatever their beliefs, tend to be fanatical and do not think in the same, rational way as most people!

Asking for proof of identity from all airline passengers is not difficult for airline staff to request, or for bona fide passengers to provide. All I ask is why should this create such a big deal???

After all, a simple request for ID makes it that much more difficult for terrorist cells (and the security forces know of at least 15 active units in the Home Counties!) to move around with impunity.

..........Unless, of course, the security forces want these organisations to show their hand so they can close in for the kill!

Oh.......and FTG, we had exactly the same arguments this side of the water when we were dealing with the IRA - until the Harrods bombing!!!

[Globaliser]

Asking for proof of identity from all airline passengers is not difficult for airline staff to request, or for bona fide passengers to provide. All I ask is why should this create such a big deal???

After all, a simple request for ID makes it that much more difficult for terrorist cells (and the security forces know of at least 15 active units in the Home Counties!) to move around with impunity.Proof of identity doesn't add to the security of the flight to any measurable extent. Effective security screening is the best way of making sure nothing untoward goes on during the flight.

Demanding ID to stop terrorists moving around is a different matter. Proof of identity may do something to reduce the ease with which they can do that - although I also have my doubts given the nature of the terrorists who seem to walk the earth these days, and the readiness with which they seem to be able to get false ID when they wish.

What doesn't help is when these two quite separate aspects of security and counter-terrorism get mixed up in some muddled thinking.

The requirement imposed by some low-fare carriers for domestic flights should therefore be seen for exactly what it is: revenue protection (perfectly legitimate, but nothing to do with security). The requirement by everyone for ID for all international flights is also perfectly legitimate for immigration control reasons (including reducing the international movement of terrorists). None of this provides any good reason for demanding that legacy carriers require photo ID of domestic passengers if they think that their revenue protection systems do not require it.