Excel Airways

[airline27]

Thread Opener

[Rampmole]

my guess would be 737-800 i recall they used that aircraft last summer on that route!!

[smudgethecat]

i wouldnt worry to much about the type whatever it is its bound to be tech!:)

[TSR2]

B757-200 has been operating this route over winter. May change for summer.

[TSR2]

Excel airways are to operate 2 ex ANA B747-400 aircraft for Travel City.

The aircraft will replace existing B747-200/300 equipment.

(Source - Airliner World June 2006)

[igb56]

On the subject of Excel, what does `V` stand for at end of flight number?

[TJ747]

Hi There,

If the flight number ends with a "V", then i am led to believe that this flight is a no-meal flight. So i presume that the "V" stands for .... value ?????

Hope this helps

[TSR2]

Flights operated by B757-200 until 27th May.

Note: Return flight on 21st May only, arrives Manchester at 07.45 according to Flight Check.

[EI-BED]

For Immediate Release 24 May 2006

EXCEL AIRWAYS GROUP

EXCEL AIRWAYS TO LAUNCH INTERNATIONAL AIRLINE IN IRELAND


Excel Airways, a leading charter operator in the UK and part of Avion Group listed in Iceland, is pleased to announce the formation of a wholly owned subsidiary in Ireland with immediate effect. The subsidiary, which will represent the airline under the Excel brand, will base its headquarters in Dublin.

The new operation is being headed up by Bill Smith, Managing Director and Carol Anne O’Neill, Commercial Director. Both have worked for many years in the travel industry in Ireland. Bill Smith was one of the founding members of Falcon Holidays in Ireland and became managing director and CEO for Falcon/JWT. Carol Anne O’Neill has an extensive background in the travel business in Ireland and was the former Operations Director for Falcon/JWT in Ireland.

The company will provide short, medium and long haul charter services for Irish tour operators and travel retailers commencing in the May-October 2007 holiday season. Target routes from Ireland will include Florida, Mainland Spain, the Balearics, Canary Islands, Portugal, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus and Egypt. It is anticipated that at least two new routes will be introduced in the mid and long haul market. In the first year of operation, the company expects to carry in excess of 65,000 passengers.

Excel Airways has grown rapidly over the last six years, operating a core fleet of 17 aircraft with additional aircraft on lease during the peak Summer season. The airline flies to over 50 destinations in Europe, the Middle East, Asia and North America from 12 UK airports. Excel Airways Group was listed on the UK Stock Exchange prior to being acquired by Avion Group in 2004, an Icelandic investment company focused on global air, land and sea transportation worldwide. In 2005, Avion Group acquired Travel City Holdings and with Excel Airways Group, forms a significant part of Avion’s Travel and Leisure Division.

Commenting on the formation of the Irish Operation, Bill Smith said:

“We believe that the arrival of Excel Airways is excellent news for tour operators and travel agents in Ireland. The Irish public are taking more holidays than ever before and with Ryanair and Aer Lingus no longer providing a charter service, we believe that the arrival of Excel Airways will fill an important gap in the market.

We intend to offer real variety to tour operators and provide further opportunities to generate extra revenues for travel retailers.”

Magnus Thorsteinsson, Executive Chairman of Avion Group added:

“I am delighted to announce our entry into Ireland, one of Europe’s most successful economies representing a lucrative and attractive market for Excel Airways. It is very pleasing that our senior management is in place in Ireland and with their strong background in the travel industry, will be particularly welcomed by the tour operators and independent retailers in Ireland.

Naturally, it is our intention to offer real variety and greater choice for the general public.”

[irishcc]

Excel Airways to launch international airline in Ireland

Excel Airways, a leading charter operator in the UK and part of Avion Group listed in Iceland, is pleased to announce the formation of a wholly owned subsidiary in Ireland with immediate effect. The subsidiary, which will represent the airline under the Excel brand, will base its headquarters in Dublin.

Excel Airways, a leading charter operator in the UK and part of Avion Group listed in Iceland, is pleased to announce the formation of a wholly owned subsidiary in Ireland with immediate effect. The subsidiary, which will represent the airline under the Excel brand, will base its headquarters in Dublin.

The new operation is being headed up by Bill Smith, Managing Director and Carol Anne O’Neill, Commercial Director. Both have worked for many years in the travel industry in Ireland. Bill Smith was one of the founding members of Falcon Holidays in Ireland and became managing director and CEO for Falcon/JWT. Carol Anne O’Neill has an extensive background in the travel business in Ireland and was the former Operations Director for Falcon/JWT in Ireland.

The company will provide short, medium and long haul charter services for Irish tour operators and travel retailers commencing in the May-October 2007 holiday season. Target routes from Ireland will include Florida, Mainland Spain, the Balearics, Canary Islands, Portugal, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus and Egypt. It is anticipated that at least two new routes will be introduced in the mid and long haul market. In the first year of operation, the company expects to carry in excess of 65,000 passengers.

Excel Airways has grown rapidly over the last six years, operating a core fleet of 17 aircraft with additional aircraft on lease during the peak Summer season. The airline flies to over 50 destinations in Europe, the Middle East, Asia and North America from 12 UK airports. Excel Airways Group was listed on the UK Stock Exchange prior to being acquired by Avion Group in 2004, an Icelandic investment company focused on global air, land and sea transportation worldwide. In 2005, Avion Group acquired Travel City Holdings and with Excel Airways Group, forms a significant part of Avion’s Travel and Leisure Division.

Commenting on the formation of the Irish Operation, Bill Smith said:

“We believe that the arrival of Excel Airways is excellent news for tour operators and travel agents in Ireland. The Irish public are taking more holidays than ever before and with Ryanair and Aer Lingus no longer providing a charter service, we believe that the arrival of Excel Airways will fill an important gap in the market.

We intend to offer real variety to tour operators and provide further opportunities to generate extra revenues for travel retailers.”

Magnus Thorsteinsson, Executive Chairman of Avion Group added:

“I am delighted to announce our entry into Ireland, one of Europe’s most successful economies representing a lucrative and attractive market for Excel Airways. It is very pleasing that our senior management is in place in Ireland and with their strong background in the travel industry, will be particularly welcomed by the tour operators and independent retailers in Ireland.

Naturally, it is our intention to offer real variety and greater choice for the general public.”

[airhumberside]

Not very good news for Eirjet

[johnrizzo2000]

I think eirjet will be worried, but they will be ok! they are owned by a tour operator, so they'll always have business! what aircraft will the new ''Green Excel'' operate?

[Cyrano]

johnrizzo2000

Are you sure? I understood Eirjet was privately held by a small number of individuals (including the management) and partnerships, not by a tour company. Which tour company do you think owns them?

[Shanwickman]

One of the investors in Eirjet owns tour operator Omnitours, a small operator
that would hardly have sufficient business to keep the Eirjet fleet flying.

[kuningan]

Anyone have any idea which aircraft Excel likely to use to Rhodes ex LGW 28 Jun, returning 5 Jul XLA5024/5? I was passing through Gatwick on Wednesday, and as I was boarding my 15.30 flight the 5024 (departure ~09.00) was still boarding......:confused:

[johnrizzo2000]

I never realised that eirjet flies so little for the omni tours/ malaga express etc group! They have a lot of flying for other companies, so this new greener excel, will be a threat!

[Mr Angry from Purley]

anyone got an idea of which aircraft type will go into Ireland, i can see a few applicants from DHL if 757 :\

[Yer Man]

This is a major threat for Eirjet.
The vast majority of their flying contracts are for other tour operators and given Eirjet's appalling performance track record it will be easy for Excel to pick off their business.

[WHBM]

Several of the other UK charter operators also have aircraft based in Dublin, do they bother with establishing an Irish subsidiary ? Within the EC nowadays there is no need to.

And so, regarding the "threat to Eirjet", what's the difference ? Monarch, First Choice, etc have been in this market for years, let alone the likes of Futura.

[airhumberside]

All FCA flights are for their Irish tour operator business aren't they and therefore they shouldn't loose any flying to Excel

[brian_dromey]

This is a major threat for Eirjet.
The vast majority of their flying contracts are for other tour operators and given Eirjet's appalling performance track record it will be easy for Excel to pick off their business.

Excels record aint the hottest either.....its all those clapped out ex Air Atlanta 757 and 767s I reckon....the 737-800s cant be all that bad, surely?

My guess is that 737-800s will be used....the 757s will prob be phased out once the 739s start arriving....but you never know!

As for EirJet....most of their flying is for First Choice brands in Ireland. Excel Ireland would appear to be headed by ex Falcon(as First Choice trades in Ireland) people, so my guess is eirJet will loose a lot of business.

[afterdark]

after a little bit of a ropey start and merging their UK operators all under Excel banner
How are they doing now on timekeeping for '06 particularly long haul.

[Tommyinyork]

Not to bad i don't think, Flyjet are the worst for delays this summer.

[Britannia]

Well they are doing bad at NCL.

XLA4151 19:25 KAVALA/GREECE & SKIATHOS INDEFINITE DELAY

I wish they would use their own aircraft at Newcastle, we always end up with the cr*p. :) :)

[DVR6K]

Believe most of the punctuality problems to be long haul and 757 routes, the 800s are performing quite well, but with the odd problem creeping in here and there. When the 900s come along and the 75s disappear we should see delays reducing. If anyone has seen the picture of the XL 757 after it was hit by a hailstorm - that's what it looks like on a good day anyway.

Thought NCL had one of the best records for punctuality of all the regional bases...

[transwede]

DVR6K I would be highly surprised if XL's NCL operation is among the highest for ontime departures as the TF reg 737-400 they have based up there is quite unreliable and certainly over the past weekend delays have been fairly lengthy to a couple of flights. It was the same last year, maybe XLA will take notice that this a/c lets them down and replace it. It also has to tech stop quite often on the longer routes out of NCL. If XL intend on keeping it why not send it to a base in the south, where distance is less of an issue?

On a positive note, the finnair 757 is performing well, as is FJE who have been subcontracted out for 3 years by XL for operation at NCL.

Tommyinyork FJE have had delays, not many I say, but it happens to all airlines and I don't think they are the worst for delays this summer, they seem to have improved since last year.

[Britannia]

Yes, TF-ELY went tech in Greece and was delayed for about 24 hours. XL brought in the Air Class Airways 737 to fly the Newcastle - Verona flight.

Chris

[DVR6K]

Well, -400 or no -400 (and it is a nasty machine), NCL recorded 85% on time performance a couple of months ago compared to a regional base average of 80% so it ain't doing too bad!

[airhumberside]

I see next summer Excel will have 5 flights a week from Exeter - Lanzarote, Corfu, Heraklion, Tenerife and Dalaman. Any chance they may consider a base there in the future?

[AEUENG]

Airhumberside,

Interesting comment, where did u get this info and when do the XL flights commence from EXT?

[airhumberside]

Info is from the Excel website. They have some flights this summer at Exeter (3 a week I think) but next summers flights start in May

[tudeski2004]

My pennies worth....Flew with Excel last month. As expected their plane had gone " Tech " but to their credit, they had arranged for "Pegasus Airlines "to fly us to spain. Only got there about 40 mins late, which is not to bad. Flight on time on way home. In my opinion they were ok

[goldeneye]

Does anyone know why XLA use so many diff aircraft types of there own and other airlines, surely this must not be cost effective.

According to Jethros fleet listing there are using the following.

A320's from Air Malta
B737-400 from Air Atlanta Icelandic (granted Avion is there parent)
B737-800 (there own and Miami air's)
B747-300 (i know these are for Travel City)
B757-200 (there own and leases from Air Italy & Finnair)
B767-200 (there own)
B767-300 (there own)
MD80's leased from Skywings UK Jet

[DVR6K]

Or to put it another (simpler) way:

B737-400 - Air Atlanta
B737-800 - Excel
B747-300 - Air Atlanta
B757-200 - Air Atlanta (being transferred over to UK reg)
B767-200 - Air Atlanta (ditto)
B767-300 - Air Atlanta (ditto)
MD83 - Skywings

The 800s pretty much look after themselves, but the merger with Air Atlanta has caused all sorts of issues with the leased aircraft so until the paperwork is complete, nothing can really be done with regards replacing the fleet. 900s on their way to replace 757s is just about it. Any rumour of a 747-400 joining the fleet soon?? May have got my wires crossed with that one.

Cost effectivity is clear when you have a look at the state of the leased aircraft! The airline can't be paying big bucks for them.

MD-83 just there for the summer to take advantage of the market at EMA and someone who counts beans worked out it will be profitable so that's why it's there. Again, a pretty minging aircraft but it gets people from A to B in one piece and back again so job done! Ditto with the 734 at NCL. And the jumbos...

[Flightrider]

Two ex-ANA B747-400s coming next year for LGW + MAN to Sanford, replacing 747-300s being used this year. Rumours of TravelCity also extending into Dominican Republic + other parts of the Caribbean, though not sure if this is additional work or just replacing the Excel brand on their Caribbean operations and taking over from Golden Caribbean.

DVR6K, I thought the 747s were doing OK this year - certainly a quantum leap from last summer's performance (in every sense of the word).

[DVR6K]

Believe they are doing well this year, but they are heaps!! Will the new 400s be in the blue of XL or the red of TC direct??

[TSR2]

My understanding from the press release is that the 400's will be operated by Excel Airways on behalf of TCD.

[transwede]

Any chance of NCL getting a more reliable aircraft based there? Granted the leased finnair plane has no problems but the 737-400 constantly lets the airline down and as DVR6K has said its a heap and not the usual XL standard. Or is XL moving towards subcontracting their work out at smaller bases, eg Flyjet at NCL (should they return in septemeber when the 2nd AY a/c returns to finland), Air Malta at BRS/BHX etc

[nclbase]

Transwede,

NCL is actually XLA third biggest base behind LGW and MAN with the routes continuaully expanding. The -400 is leaving the fleet at the end of the year so next year will probably see at least 1 X -800 and 1 X 757 (Finnair). Not sure what will happen in the winter if FJE do not return - perhaps a year round AY aircraft. Anyone have any news on this?
TCD may also look at NCL again perhaps with a 767 asthey are all part of the same company now.
The 737-400 has actually been performing pretty well as far as I am aware - one tech problem a few weeks back but the other delays have actually been the -400 rescueing other XLA flights with tech a/c being the -800!

[WHBM]

perhaps a year round AY aircraft. Anyone have any news on this?AY don't have 757s to spare in the winter which is their peak season, when they have a surprisingly long haul programme for the entire 757 fleet.

Much of it is to the Canaries (about 6 hours from Helsinki) but they also do some real long-hauls with them, almost daily to Phuket in Thailand (tech stopping in India) and to several resorts in Northern Brasil (tech stopping in Tenerife). That's a huge long haul in a max-charter seated 757.

It's a far northern thing to have your peak in the winter, the Canadians are the same. In summer they both prefer to go up to their cabins by the lake.

[nclbase]

Thanks for that WHBM,

I wondered how XLA managed to get the 2nd AY aircraft so quickly but your explanation would make sense!
If FJE do not come back to NCL, maye XLA will hold off getting rid of one of the own 757 till next summer to cover winter flying??

[WHBM]

Just to clarify, Finnair (AY) only use their 757s on IT charters (and a few charter-like schedules) with charter-pitch seating, it is quite a different sub-fleet from their trunk services across Europe which they use 321s/320s on, with normal scheduled-type seating, business class, etc. For many years recently Air Scandic in the UK used this spare summer 757 capacity, but they have gone now.

Just like the Canadian charter operators they do summertime transatlantic charters with them to Toronto etc, a market which peaks in the opposite part of the year to their Finnish winter sun holiday business. Actually not just sun, they surprisingly do ski charters to the Alps as well, Salzburg being a particular favourite. Plenty of snow in Finland then, of course, but not a lot of good mountains to go down and very little daylight hours anyway !

[DVR6K]

For the record, I concur with nclbase... The 400 is on it's way out but has served a very good purpose thus far at NCL.

[transwede]

The -400 has seem to of suffered more than its fair share. It seems a bit of an odd a/c to base at NCL, considering it has suffered from many restrictions when operating flights out of NCL to Greece etc.

So, the finnair 757 is returning next summer? Just the one or will one be operating for FJE again?

[nclbase]

Transwede,

It does seem an off aircraft BUT it does have good reliability - it is incredible that this aircraft is actually carrying out rescue flights for some of the -800's!

Finnair will be back with 1 A/C (2 if FJE do not return), in addition to an XLA owned aircraft.

[Lew_HUY]

They Just announced 2 new routes from HUY.. Sharm El Shake and Corfu.. also its the first medium haul route for HUY!

Lew:ok:

[kuningan]

The 800s pretty much look after themselves.

They certainly do - just returned from a pretty good r/t to Rhodes ex LGW on one - new, comfortable and pretty good in-flight service. Only delays were due to ATC and absolutely shambolic Rhodes airport. A couple of weeks ago tho they had a 757 on the run, which was frequently delayed......

[windshear-a-head]

How we are ever going to do Sharm out of HUY is beyond me, almost 20 tonnes of fuel a payload of 16.8 and a nice short runway! great

[bushbolox]

windshear,
From huy,Takin the more northerly route thru ams, turkey, rds (western nicosia after izmir etc and entering T'egypt further east you will get the dct sharm vor routing ,optimistically filed by xl on man /ssh anyway (usually used by outbound traffic, but why ruin a good flight plan with a minor detail like that) ) rather than the current (re-cleared)man route over dba and w727 with the big kink.The tegypt portion of that route is a 600kg saving in fuel alone. Over all it should end up being less or equal to man/ssh track distance.therfore with winglets, blt, 2/4 crew, flap 25 (f limit) bleeds off, manual loadsheeet m/f etc (200kg saving on average), and an era , no problems.Make it a V flight and the aps can be culled to the tune of 118 kg as well. Piece of piss. Add a dayoff payment or two and the sharp pencil brigade will be quein up to fly it.
If you can do a full 4 hr smi man in an non winglet 32 deg f limit 25 flap t/o then 10 degree f limit 25 flap 5.5 (winter jetstream, plus the above) huy shm is no probs in the new kit.
Pissed and off to bed.:ok:

[windshear-a-head]

That sounds like a good day to me, not often/if at all it'll happen that way.

[aeulad]

Well if you can do BRS-SSH, HUY-SSH with it's longer runway should'nt prove a problem at all.

Regards

Mike

[johnrizzo2000]

Anybody know when they'll release more details about the XLA ireland? Fleet etc? Also, when they'll be recruiting?

[Clipper7]

Yes, TF-ELY went tech in Greece and was delayed for about 24 hours. XL brought in the Air Class Airways 737 to fly the Newcastle - Verona flight.
Chris


I'm assuming TF is Iceland, but I see TF planes so often that I almost find that hard to believe ? Is Iceland the Panama-flag of convenience for aircraft ???

[Oblique96]

COO/CFO resign from Excel Airways
11 Jul 2006Excel Airways’ COO Steven Tomlinson and CFO Paul Roberts have resigned with immediate effect.

Parent company Avion has appointed Halldor Sigurdarson as CFO.
The Icelandic transport group explained that it was ‘taking steps which will strengthen the management of Excel Airways Group, adding that ‘these changes represent the first stage in that process, as announced in the interim results statement on 30Jun06'

Hope it's good news for those most affected:rolleyes:

[Bagmanlgw]

Kalium Chloride

Why wht happened with the Alpha Airports situation then ? :confused:

[fje1]

Flyjet will probably not drop the work at Newcastle.
3YR summer/winter contract.
Sorry XLA, but who knows

[oliversarmy]

The NCL flying is for XLA

OA

[Albert Hall]

FJE will go wherever Excel tell them to - Newcastle, Timbuktu... A 3-year contract means nothing in terms of the location of the aircraft.

Anyway, haven't they been bought by Excel?

[oliversarmy]

No they havent.:rolleyes:

[Albert Hall]

Aah, rumour was that XLA had stepped in with a "helping hand" when FJE was struggling last December. If it wasn't XLA then who was it?

[rumair999]

Tell more Mr Hall :)

[oliversarmy]

He doesnt know because it didnt happen.
:ugh:

[nclbase]

XLA have not helped FJE at all!Anyone got any news about if FJE will be coming back in the winter at all????? We know it is planned but they did plan to be here all summer....

[transwede]

They will return in september when the second of the AY units returns to HEL. That is the plan isn't it? Or wasn't that FJEs plan all along, certainly thats the rumour.

[envoyheadboy]

The aircraft positions back up late 3rd Sep to operate the FJE 601 on the 4th Sep to continue the contract.

[afterdark]

just returned from Orlando on XLA on one of the TCD 743's,
a couple of things of note were
1. Outbound was ON TIME ..... return flight was 1 hr 25 mins late with a full explanation that the flight before had a medical diversion hence the delay ( that was fine ) felt sorry for the Manchester flight return delay 24 hrs...

2. Cabin Crew on our sector was excellent on the return journey compared with the outbound, who was somewhat it seems, suffering after effects from the night before and was mostly missing throughout flight.

3. In Flight entertainment via TV screen on the outward flight could not be seen due to seating config rows 34 & 35 (TF-AMJ). Return journey (TF-AMK) could see the screen but no sound due to night flight the main cabin sound was turned off & the headsets was not working for anyone during the flight.

4. Cabin on AMJ compared to AMK looked a bit dirty, but seating was comfortable enough. AMK was ok too apart from the seat back being broken and kept reclining ( was quite a feeling on take off, the guy behind was not to happy though and managed to get a spare seat elsewhere fortunetly ).

Overall we all had a faster more comfortable flight that prevoius similar flights,
that includes FCA 767 Star Class Premier.

Thanks to the Flight Crew for the informative and smooth flight and landings
Thanks to the Cabin Crew esp on return journey for being helpful, cheery and down to earth.

[geezerbird]

Excel Airways today announced their new services to Antigua, St Kitts, Grenada, Tobago and Barbados. Flight are looking very reasonable!

[Spirit of st. Louis]

just returned from Orlando on XLA on one of the TCD 743's,
4. Cabin on AMJ compared to AMK looked a bit dirty, but seating was comfortable enough. AMK was ok too apart from the seat back being broken and kept reclining ( was quite a feeling on take off, the guy behind was not to happy though and managed to get a spare seat elsewhere fortunetly ).
Overall we all had a faster more comfortable flight that prevoius similar flights,
that includes FCA 767 Star Class Premier.
Thanks to the Flight Crew for the informative and smooth flight and landings
Thanks to the Cabin Crew esp on return journey for being helpful, cheery and down to earth.


There was a spare seat????!!! Wonders never cease ;) .

nice feedback.:ok:

[mikeyuk]

Who services the XL fleet 747's in particular.
And what other airlines do they service.

Thanks

Mike

[spannersatcx]

I think you'll find that 'their' 747's are TF registered and would be looked after by Air Atlanta.

[redmech]

who also own xl

[airhumberside]

Can anyone tell me what Excel's plans are for HUY next summer?

XLA had intended to base an aircraft at HUY all week and put the full schedule on sale a few months ago. Now only Paphos and Heraklion are bookable

XLA have done very well at HUY this summer and if the plan to have a based aircraft next summer has been scrapped it seems a very shock move, especially as flights had already been put on sale for this summer

[air2bob]

airhumberside

excel are pulling out of huy along with ema and cwl reason's seem to be poor performance at huy as no cat3 and load factor was very poor at cwl. two new bases are opening at stn and dub for 2007. good luck to all crew's at huy/ema/cwl hope things work out for you all:ok:

[airhumberside]

Well I am very disappointed in this, particularly as it isn't a problem with loads. I kinow there have been some DSA dversions this year. This is a huge blow to HUY - as big as losing FR

How come they are pulling out of NEMA

[tweentown]

Looking at the schedules for next year Air Malta are taking over the Excel flying from NEMA. Given the reliability problems with the MD80 at NEMA over the last couple of years, this should be an improvement.

[airhumberside]

A post on my forums states yields are the reason for XLA pulling out HUY.

However if yields are a problem, why put next summers flights on sale. They would have known about yields last Easter when flights went on sale

[johnrizzo2000]

Any idea's on what the DUB base will be like? ie, aircraft routes? I look frward to seeing XLA in Dublin. We had a weekly Saturday rotation to Verona last year with a 738 which was nice!:)

[rumair999]

Guess no one knows what routes the unit will op ex DUB, is it planned there all week? there was talk of SFB would be fab to see the 767 there as well !:ok:

[pug]

Any chance of Air Malta taking on the HUY flights?

[pug]

Oh ok sorry i was under the impression that XL had arranged an agreement with air malta to base aircraft.

Very dissapointing for both airports all the same.

[johnrizzo2000]

Any ideas when they will announce fleet/routes/recruitment for the new Excel airways ireland/ dublin base?

[daal43]

Anyone else seen this?

'
Disposal of 100% in XL Leisure Group for USD 450 million
· Disposal of 51% in Avion Aircraft Trading for USD 51 million
· 49% in Avion Aircraft Trading retained by Avion Group
· Purchase price used for continued growth and repayment of loans

Avion Group (Avion or the ‘Company’) announces that it has reached agreement for the disposal of the entire issued share capital of XL Leisure Group for USD 450 million. XL Leisure Group was recently formed from the Charter & Leisure division within Avion and consists of Excel Airways Group in the UK, Star Airlines in France and Star Europe in Germany. The disposal is being made to a buy-out team, led by Phillip Wyatt, Chief Executive Officer of XL Leisure Group and is conditional on CAA approval in the UK.

The profit on the disposal before tax is estimated to be USD 107 million and is calculated according to the book value of the assets of XL Leisure Group as at 31 July 2006. The proceeds of USD 450 million is payable on completion of the puchase. '

[goldeneye]

Ive just seen this too, very quiet and very surprising. Two news stories Here (http://www.eyefortravel.com/index.asp?news=53271) and Here (http://www.euro2day.gr/articlesfna/23176873/)

And from Avion themselves.

[NG708]

Yes, very quiet. I wonder how this might affect those of us who were recently interviewed for positions?

Anyone in Excel heard anything?

[Jamie-Southend]

I gather Excel will be operating 767`s in 2007 into SFB on behalf of Travelcity.

Does anyone know if econ seats on the 767 have individual TV`s and what the seat pitch is?

cheers


:p

[goldeneye]

Excel now the parent of Travel City will be operating Boeing 747-400 and Boeing 767's for TCD, next summer. Currently the 767 do not have seat backs in any cabin. Whether they will be re-fitted for 2007 remains to be seen as yet.

[jumbo girls]

Excel airways has ordered 2 x A330 for delivery Nov/Dec 2008. With the remaining 3 options hopefully being taken by spring 2009.

These aircraft will replace the current 767-300ER in there fleet, & help them expand & grow there longhaul network.

[mcand]

"Excel airways has ordered 2 x A330 for delivery Nov/Dec 2008. With the remaining 3 options hopefully being taken by spring 2009"

Very interesting, where did you get this info??

[GW76]

jumbo girls

Interesting...Airbus dont know anything about that one, perhaps they are to be leased.

[irishcc]

CIT Aerospace will lease the aircraft to Excel.

[the penguin]

rumour has it in XL that next year they will have an A/C on a wet lease flying for GB in BA colours, anyone any more info?
seems like the GB F/Os are going to lose their commands as well as their parking!

[jethro15]

It's not a rumour. Should be a new build a/c currently on order by Excel, leased to GB Apr 07 - Oct 07

jethro
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
http://www.jethros.i12.com

[DooblerChina]

Is there any end to XL's expansion, over the past few months I have seen XL 737, 757, 767, 747, 146 and even a 320 which seemed to also have Air Malta colours on the side. I would love to know how their back room staff, recruitment, maintenance, training ......... to name a few can keep up.

[BA283]

Bloody Hell!!
(and I'm not having a go at any individual airline or pilots!!)
I thought it was GB co-pilots that were taking BA commands! Where oh where are we all going to end up after this industry finishes its nosedive to oblivion?
The sooner Gordon Brown taxes flying out of existence, the better. I'm going to invest my redundancy pot(??) in horse s**t and turn my front lawn into a 25' square organic farm to save the planet.

[R3Hard]

Last i heard GB have recruited so many low hour or non jet guys they struggling to fill their LHS and have been discussing DEC's, rang up to enquire but was fobbed off!! Prob why they having to wet lease the excel, mind you if it's just for the summer it gets round the over capacity in the winter! Shame about the parking, i was always jealous of that little perk - welcome to the staff bus chaps :\

[beauport potato man]

the penguin.....

you're kinda half right - although the post was a little sensationalist.

GB were offered an extension on the lease for A320 TTOA for a period of 6+ years when they only wanted the a/c on lease for a further 6 months approx.
Hence they haven't renewed the lease and the a/c goes back to the lessor shortly.

This leaves the airline with a shortfall in a/c numbers for a period next year, until roughly the time that the next new A321 TTIF arrives from the factory.

In the meantime a lease has been organised to cover this shortfall, i believe with Excel, using their pilots but GB cabin crew. Bit like what Astraeus are doing with Flybe at the moment with the B737's.

I'm sure someone out there knows more of the nitty gritty details but this what i'm told the situation is.

As for the parking/Beehive situation, the consultation period surrounding the move is ongoing with nothing signed or resolved yet.

Commands won't be affected long term as the lease is purely short term and total a/c numbers at GB remain unaffected.
And - R3Hard - there's definately NO problems filling left hand seats as there are PLENTY of SFO's and FO's on the seniority with the required type hours and jet hours. Command couses are on going with at least another 3 planned for early next year.

BPM

[Flightrider]

737-800, to be based at Manchester operating for GB on their normal route structure (although quite what that is from MAN given the frequent changes, I don't know). It is indeed related to the return of 'OA to the leasing company next spring.

[oliversarmy]

Its LGW based - May to October.:)

[seymour fanny]

They may have signed for a wet lease but under the terms of the franchise its illegal. Only BA/Franchise pilots can fly BA flight numbers. So if its only doing charter work with GBL flight numbers its OK but it can't fly any of the BA schedules.

GB and BA CCs already working to get this stopped, watch this space.

[beauport potato man]

Saw the memo from KH.... interesting stuff.

I believe the company has signed a 'letter of intent' for Jubilee but unless you have seen something else with you own eyes then i guess we have to take their word for it.
A letter of intent is in no way a solid formal binding contract. It does however allow the company to register its interest.

God knows if this is true or not, but i've seen nothing to the contrary and don't believe anyone else has either. Perhaps we'll never know.

As for commands... you suggest the CAA is happy with GB's 'adjusting the requirements' (i'm not sure if they have...) and is turning a blind eye to increasing ASR's.

That's a very serious allegation.

Can you help me out by putting some numbers to that ie. By how much the command requirements have changed? The number of ASR's? (there was a huge increase in ASR's when BA introduced flight monitoring as everybody was covering their backs. Same at GB. If you look at the subject and content of the ASR's then you'll find it hard to back up the allegation of 'slipping standards')

As for the wet lease, seymour fanny maybe right. But it would be a huge oversight by the company not to realise this???
How do they get around the day to day subbing out of flights? Is it therefore a time limited thing?

If seymour fanny is right then there was an illegal flight today as Excel carried out a GB flight under a BA flight number to ALC.
Call the cops.

BPM

[A and C]

XL flying on a BA flight number may well not be part of the contract with BA but I don't think that it is "illegal".

XL are not braking any laws, however GB might be braking the contract with BA but if so thats GB's problem not XL's

[Carnage Matey!]

Is anybody breaking any rules?

[seymour fanny]

BPM

There is a whole lot of difference in wet leasing an aircraft for the summer (6 months) and the occassional sub charter for day to day operational disruptions.

One is catered for in the agreement, the other isn't, hence thats why its illegal.
Call the cops

[Flightrider]

Understood re bases - it has obviously changed since I last heard something!

Something which is illegal breaks a law. There is no law against GB doing this. If it breaks an agreement that GB have with British Airways, that does not make it illegal - it makes it a breach of an agreement and BA could act as it saw fit with whatever terms are included in that agreement to deal with breaches of it by either party.

If GB's franchise agreement is like the others, they will be able to lease-in capacity to operate under BA flight numbers for an indefinite period provided that:

1/ It conducts a full operational audit of the intended lessor of the aircraft (which it would need to do under JAR-Ops anyway) and maintains oversight of the safe operation to its own standards during the period of the lease;

2/ BA is content that the branding and product spec on the leased aircraft does not compromise the usual service offered to customers versus BA norm;

3/ BA gives its permission to the lease.

In reality, are BA really going to be that bothered about this that they will try to stop it?

If you are unhappy about this, I think it is also worthwhile considering another point. GB is apparently leasing this 737-800 because it doesn't want to extend the lease on G-TTOA. It needs the aircraft for Summer 2007 but thereafter doesn't have any use for it, so it is a six-month expedient. If previous posts are to be believed, the leasing company has said that they will extend but only for six years.

I appreciate that a six-month wet-lease is not helpful to pilot progression prospects, but stopping it could have other consequences. Stuffing your employer up with 5.5 years of lease rentals of (probably around) $300,000 per month for an aircraft that it doesn't need or want will not do much for your job prospects either. Surely there are also benefits to getting 'OA out of the fleet in terms of a more stable lifestyle anyway?

[R3Hard]

Until recently i was v keen on GB especially as i had heard that they were looking for DEC's. Turns out that they're not but having had a few beers this weekend with my current and a couple of ex GB contacts i have been advised that i am far better off seeing my impending pension date with my current employer. Shame as it wasn't that long ago that my contacts were singing their praises and i was looking for my final 5 years to be in short haul.
I'm sorry BPM but my contacts have been with GB for much much longer than your 7 or 8 months and there are concerns about the numbers of FO's suitable for command if significant further expansion were announced. Not that it will bother me now anyway!

[beauport potato man]

R3Hard

are you suggesting that in my "7 or 8 months" i'm not savvy enough to understand the seniority system or command criteria?

Unless you know of 'significant expansion' that we don't then there are definately enough suitable people to fill commands for the projected expansion of the airline in line with the a/c orders.

And by the way, i've been in this game for 16 years now.

Cheers

BPM

[SAM-EMA]

Does anyone know what is happening with excel at EMA. I thought that XL intend to end their operations from there. I know that they have been using a MD-83 over the summer season and now are using a Viking aircraft. I was just wondering if anyone has any info.

Thanks
SAM-EMA

[bmibaby.com]

Hi sam, XL will continue to sell flights and package holidays from EMA as it has apparently been a very successful base for the past two years they have been doing so, but as in past years the airline will not base their own aircraft here. In 2005 it was Air Scandic, the in 2006 it was UKJet (somehow Greek registered but Swedish owned) who used the old Scandic MD-83 aircraft just a new splash of paint. Next summer the bulk of flying is expected to be done by one week-long based bmi charter A320 as well as another A320 based for some of the week, then Air Malta for one or two further flights.

[R3Hard]

BPM, 16 years eh, i assume you are including your years as cabin crew in that? I would have thought that after 16 years you would be a captain yourself!! Next time my TRE(E) ticket is up for renewal i'll be in touch for advice as my 38 years on the trident, 1-11, 737, 747,75/67, 777 can't count for much. I will also have to ignore the advice and opinions from my very good friends who are your trainers on how GB is set for future captains. No more from me - goodbye.

[beauport potato man]

R3Hard.

sorry if i sounded too flippant in my last reply - didn't mean to.

Did you really 'out' me???

no hard feelings on my part

BPM

[R3Hard]

BPM. No worries, none on my part either. Maybe i just misinterpreted the written word.
I didn't out anyone so am a little intrigued why Mr Hawk got involved, i just included your initials so maybe he was upset with that.
Trouble with being part time these days is that you can end up with too much time on your hands! Never thought that i would say that.

Safe Flying.

[SAM-EMA]

Thanks for the info bmibaby

Cheers SAM-EMA

[Flightrider]

The bmi A320 based in EMA has gone - it isn't there next year. The aircraft has been contracted to MyTravel based in LBA for next year. Excel EMA flying (what there is of it) will be flown by Air Malta, but it's a much reduced programme compared to the combined bmi and Viking programmes of S06.

[afterdark]

is there any more info released on XL adding 744's to their fleet for next year, I believe there was rumoured two ex ANA birds supposed to be arriving although there has been nothing more for a few months.
or is it because they are rumoured to be getting 2 x A330-200's ( 767 replacement )and these can be used in conjunction with but not to replace the existing 743's.

[thebeehive]

Any kind soul know what aircraft type LGW-HRG will be operated by June 2007? - The old 743's were used quite a bit over the past years.

Appears to have been reduced from 3 flights each Friday to just the one this year?

Cheers!

[thebeehive]

two flights planned this year on fri - XLA5984/5 B767, and XLA5048/9 B738

Cheers chip butty.

It's odd as Libra have an 09.30 departure, going places have an 11:45 departure, XL.com has a 13:30 departure all supposidly with XL.

I called XL and was told one flight on the friday dep at 11.30 then called later and got told one flight, the 13:30 so who knows what/which I'll end up on as I am probably going to book via going places :ugh:

[SAM-EMA]

Excel Airways have placed an order for 2 A330-200 aircraft, with options on a further 3. They will be leased from CIT Aerospace. When I found this I was very surprised because I was expecting XL to order Boeing 787s. It will be a good mix: B737-800s, B737-900s and A330-200s. The B737s will repace the B757s, the A330s will replace the B767s and then there are the B747s.

SAM-EMA
:)

[PENNINE BOY]

The 2 757s GVKNB/C have been air tested at Man and are going to the states to be parked up untill they are converted in to SF200 Freighter Versions, and not to Fly Globespan.:D :D :D

[beauport potato man]

In this months "Airliner Magazine" (what a spotter eh??!!) it talks about XL leasing 2 x A330's from some leasing firm of who's name i can't remember.

Does anyone know anymore about their whereabouts or plans?

Not that i'm airbus rated and looking around, you understand ;-)

BPM

[GW76]

beauport potato man

Reported months ago, and although leased may come direct from Airbus

[glider12000]

They are being leased from CIT.

Due in 2008/2009.

It`s a shame really would have preferred a T7 order with a 787 order for the future, but who knows what will happen

[beauport potato man]

GW76

thanks, tried looking for it but must have missed it!

Do you know when they are being delivered?

BPM

[airchabum]

Hi BPM

1st 2 due for delivery in Nov/Dec 2008 with the remainder in 2009. They will be new build a/c so hopefully will all be the same, unlike the hotch-potch of 767s (configs, engines, etc)

Cheers

[NO DELAY EXPECTED]

Just heard that Excel Airways are getting A330 's and that they are leasing an A330 aswell for operation out of CDG for the summer.on Carribean routes .
Any truth in this rumour anyone ?

[crewboi83]

XL Airways UK have 2 firm orders, they are A330-200 due in Nov 2008, options for a few more.
not sure about the one for CDG operations, its possible, do they still have something to do with Star airlines, they were owned by the Avion group too so i belive.

[mmeteesside]

Star Airlines are now XL Airways France, and I believe Star XL Germany are now XL Airways Germany. This gives them a number of options for placing the A330's.

[caaardiff]

Now XL have rebranded and taken on different airlines in other countrys (Germany, Ireland, France and Australia) how are they performing?
XL have taken on quite a few a/c in recent month's which takes the fleet of 738's up to 15, with 2 more due and 739's due next year.
Does anyone know where these 738's will be based and any other plans for the UK?
Also whatever happened to the new 747's?

[IB4138]

Don't know about the aircraft, but they won't need them if their online and telephone bookings system continue to work as they do at present, including their sister company Freedom Flights. They are working as new business refusal departments.

If you don't want your journey to start in the UK, the online booking system of XL won't allow you to do that. If you telephone XL you are told to ring Freedom Flights ("our sister company") who handle all bookings for flights where the journey does not originate in the UK.

The people at Freedom insist that they can only book such flights where the return ex UK is in multiples of 7 days from your day of departure, as they have to match the inbound and outbound pax. Clearly a load of tosh, when you are not so restricted on shortage or length of stay, when your journey originates from the UK, which can be booked online with XL.

[DTVAirport]

Hi all,

I haven't read the previous thread in too much detail, but given the fact it was first created a year ago (!) I think the time is right for a new one.

The way I see it is, and I might be wrong here, what was a very troubled carrier just two summers ago, being the worst for delays as I remember it, is now a completely transformed carrier, with a much brighter future.

By the way, I understand they have an Australian division, I know of the French, German, Irish, and obviously the UK divisions, but I've never heard of XL Airways Australia?

Regards.

[airhumberside]

I believe XL have a minority stake in Skywest Airlines in Australia

[bmibaby.com]

I'm not sure of XL's expansion policy, but this summer seems to be a heavily contracted schedule compared to that of the last two summers, is this because XL are now more focused or what? To use EMA as an example (though I'm aware XL has withdrawn or scaled back from other airports) over the last two years the airline hasn't based it's own aircraft here, instead using XL uniformed crews but MD-83s of Viking Airlines under the brands Air Scandic in S05 and UKJet in S06. This summer they're using Air Malta and bmi for XL flights, as well as one or two XL W-pattern flights. The airline seems to be on a big marketing push with the XL.com brand, but they seem to almost always use other airlines to operate their flights, and have recently closed CWL & HUY.

[MichaelDoyle]

Hi
Sorry if I asked this question about a FCA flight a few days ago but we've found an XLA flight cheaper.
Could anybody tell me what aircraft type XLA use on the MAN - SKG route in the summer?
Michael

[jabird]

"The way I see it is, and I might be wrong here, what was a very troubled carrier just two summers ago, being the worst for delays as I remember it, is now a completely transformed carrier, with a much brighter future."

Not sure what happened to a couple of posts I made on this topic, but I hope this is still relevant:

Two weeks ago, I flew LGW-ANU (via SKB) on G-VKNG, which left LGW "about an hour late", due to a technical issue.

Didn't think much of it - XL still have a reputation for delays round here, but the price was too tempting to ignore. The next day, I took a flight out of ANU at 6AM - the aircraft, which should have left the previous evening at 20:05, was still on the apron.

I've heard that it eventually got back to LGW about 24 hours late, having been routed up the US East Coast, and via a tech stop in KEF. This sounds like it wasn't allowed to fly ETOPS, but I presume it is still SOP to carry passengers when there is a tech issue, even though this will have been known about before take-off?

Just hoping for an event free flight tomorrow, but would have serious concerns if I was heading out in the other direction, and had a cricket match to get to!

[3REDS]

Just been on wikedpedia web site and it is showing that XL have ordered 20 A320's to be delivered from Airbus, first due January 2009. This would make sense with the A330's which have been ordered. Can anyone give anymore info.
Cheers
3REDS

[timboab]

Hello, does anyone know what type of aircraft TCD or XL airways are using for the Manchester-Sanford route that leaves every Thurday afternoon?

I have conflicting stories that it is a &$& Jumbo or a 767. Anyone know?

[c_hostie]

I used to work for XL last year and they used a 747, I think they still do.

[emnm]

last thursday it was 747 on man-sfb

[afterdark]

747-300 is based at MAN year round currently TF-AME
767-300 winter LGW
747-300 summer LGW

[timboab]

is it only the one jumbo?

Do you have any idea how old that plane is?

[J-Man]

TF-AME

Delivered to SQ on 30/10/1984 as N121KG
Went to Corsair as F-GSEA on 21/8/1997
Then registered to Air Atlanta Icelandic as TF-AME on 15/12 /2004
Finally leased from AAI to Travel city direct still TF-AME on 17/03/2005

First flight date was 17/10/1984 not bad to say its nearly 23 years old, hasnt had a wealth of operators like most that age have. :ok:

[timboab]

WOW-How on earth do you know all that???

Is it a nice 'healthy' plane (Nervous flyer you see!!)

Thanks very much.

[timboab]

oh, and one last thing-Who are SQ-What operator are they?

[GW76]

SQ= Singapore Airlines
Its amazing what a google search will come up with.....:rolleyes:

[timboab]

Funny thing is, this is a website about all things aeroplanes-So I just asked what SQ stood for-Not everyone is a airline geek.

But thank you for answering my question.

[emnm]

healthy plane???
yes, flew on it last march, up in the bubble and its fine dont worry, good service in the bubble as well

[airhumberside]

XL are starting scheduled flights next summer, according to their flight timetable

[LGS6753]

XL have been doing scheduled services this summer too, viz: LTN-LCA and others

[bnhs89]

The LTN-LCA has been operated since the demise of AJet (Helios)

As for the aircraft orders, XL France have 3 A320's & the 2 A330 ordered, XL Germany have 2 A320's on order. As they are now all part of the same group I'm sure they will all be swapped around as necessary.

http://www.airbus.com/store/mm_repository/pdf/att00009247/media_object_file_June_2007.xls

2 of the 767-300's are apparently going back to the Leasing Company soon, and the contract on the 743's comes to an end in 2008, hence the orders for the A330's.

[airhumberside]

Another scheduled route, that starts this winter - prepared to be surprised - LGW-NOC, daily except Saturday. Not yet for sale but its in their flight timetable. This is a bit of change in direction for XL

[iwak]

Anyone any idea when the lgw /noc flights will be released for sale?

cheers.

[airhumberside]

Flight timetable now also showing MAN-LCA, and interestingly LTN -Paphos/Sharm El Sheik as scheduled services - the Luton routes arent currently served on a charter basis so are brand new

[bhoy007]

Hey Guys!!! :)

I have heard that XL are due to down size at LGW and MAN so its unlikly that there going to be crewing for summer "08" at these two bases.

Has anyone else heard this and why is this happening at these two big bases? :ugh:

Hope use can give some light on it, as i was really looking forward to applying to LGW for summer "08" :{

[airhumberside]

No STN fights are on sale for next summer - so is STN base shutting down?

But it does look like a LTN base will be opening?

[afterdark]

I was noticing that in the Travelcitydirect website they are offering only main cabin or premier seating for S08 are XL they doing away with the 747-300's earlier than planned this would also seem to fit in with downsizing, I take it will be with XL 767's.

Can anyone tell me the if the layout in the XL 767's are 2-4-2, 2-3-2 and what the seat pitch/comfort is like.

I see that they have now on order 4 x A330 for delivery, 1 on each Nov & Dec 08 also Mar & Apr 09.

[aidoair]

Well that would work out, as from what i have heard is that the lease for the 743 is due to end mid November this year and i have not heard of any plans to extend this lease again.

As for the 767's thier longhaul economy cabin is 2-4-2 with 32" legroom. The XL one cabin is 2-2-2 with upto 45" legroom. As for the premium economy section i am not sure if they still offer this service but when they did it aws 2-3-2 with upto 35" legroom.

[shaftenhoe end]

airhumberside - LGWNOC as a scheduled route, will be interesting to see how XL do as EZ tried it then pulled off. Would imagine RYR will also give them a run fo there money with their own routes into STN/LTN.

[scotsunflyer]

I apologise in advance if this is the wrong forum. What are xl operating on MAN-SSH and MAN-HRG this winter?

Is it B738/B752/B762 ?

(If wrong forum please move)

[airhumberside]

airhumberside - LGWNOC as a scheduled route, will be interesting to see how XL do as EZ tried it then pulled off.
At the moment I doubt they will be doing very well as its stil not yet on sale, just in the timetable. Same with LTN-PFO/SSH. Anyone know whats going on?

[MUFC_fan]

As for the premium economy section i am not sure if they still offer this service but when they did it aws 2-3-2 with upto 35" legroom.


Just shows how FCA and TOM treat their passengers. This is near enough the same configuration as FCA/TOM economy cabin. TCX/MYT/XL/MON/VS need to take note of the great service that FCA and TOM offer on their long haul services!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

"MUFC_FAN" you might find TOM & FCA have the extra leg room, but l bet the main cabin is still 2-4-2.

[afterdark]

FCA 767 is 2-3-2 with individual seat back IFE threwout either 36 or 33 inch pitch
TOM is 2-4-2 with 37 or 33 inch seat pitch

[danjones]

Any chance that XL could be bringing in A330's from XL France to run the travel city direct flights? XL will only have 2x 767-300's from next year as apparently G-VKNH is onward to varig as PR-VAD.

[Psr777]

There is a thread in the Cabin Crew forum with details of an internal memo for staff at XL regarding the withdrawal of the 757, 767 and 747 aircraft from the fleet asap.
What does this mean for the Travel City Direct programme with the withdrawal of the 747s?
Who will be operating the longhaul flights the group has already sold?
Anyone have anymore info on the plans for the future?

[HH6702]

aren't they getting some a330.

dont think they enter service until next november so they must be going to keep at least some big aircraft until then

[aidoair]

Perhaps they may bring in a couple of A330's from XL france ?

[danjones]

Perhaps the 330's, maybe even bringing 744's from Corsair? Travel City is only selling economy and premium seats for next year so the 747's are definatly off the menu. Does corsair's 744 have a 2 class layout? I would have thought there selling the amount of seats for the 743 so they would need that capacity.

[Fuel Boy]

Heard today that TF-AME and the 767's 757's are all going or on the way out. AME's last flight is the 3/10/07 the MCO flights will flown by 767's until 14/11/07 when the route closes.

XL are going to replace its fleet with 737-900's and 330's not sure of a time frame, but can't be to far away.

[irishcc]

SFB will be operated by 767-300..most likely to be G-VKNG in a 24/251 configuration.

[timboab]

Hi, don't know if this is the correct place for this question so if it is not, please don't jump down my throat!!!!

I was interested to now why it is that the Travel City Direct Flight from Glasgow Airport to Sanford International on a Monday afternoon (3PM) never manages to take off on time.

Even if the plane is in well before 3PM it just never seems to take off on schedule - Does anyone know the reason for it? I was wondering if it was because Glasgow Airport is not used to handling Jumbo jets?

Many thanks for your help.

[GW76]

Too much mayhem on disembarkation and boarding. Not enough ground staff for luggage etc. Often arrives late too. Glasgow punters refuse to follow polite boarding protocol. Rows 30-45 basicially means a free for all.

[warkman]

the two TCD/XL 747's are going back to Air Atlanta on 15th November, other reports on here say the flights will be replaced with 767's

[timboab]

so the reason it i late leaving is basically they cannot get it loaded quick enough?

I thought that perhaps Travel City really were not that keen on getting the plane to Sanford that early and were quite happy to see it go at about 4-5PM?

Are Travel City def getting new planes for the Florida flight??

[smith]

Get John Smeaton to "get in aboot them" baggage handler's at GLA and sort it out.

[caaardiff]

It could be for any reason, the only people that will know are the handling agents or the airline. And maybe the pax on board if announcements are made.
TCD is notorious for being late at CWL when it comes in for 6 wks at peak summer.
This year however has been quite a success, i think the latest departure being 30 mins due an engineering problem.
CWL is certainly not built for a 747, its free standing and coached.

But with 500+ pax, whereby yes the handling agents may not be used to handling such a large a/c, it isnt easy trying to control the boarding!

Especially if u havent got the facilities to do so (decent boarding area and gates / coaches etc)

[timboab]

Thanks for that.

Yes, on Monday just past the flight was 1Hr 45 Mins late on taking off - I have flown with them a few times from Manchester & Glasgow. MAN is almost always on time, but GLA for some reason is always late!!

Whats this about new planes? Does anyone have any more info?????

[timboab]

Just got a brochure in from TCD.

Looks like they are getting shot of the Jumbos and going for 767's & Airbus A330's.

Anyone know any more?

[RingwaySam]

I thought TCD were getting -400s from ANA? - Then XL bought A330s a while back to replace the 767s.

You should search the forum. Theres quite a few threads about TCD and XL :)

[transwede]

What bases are XL pulling out of as part of their restructuring? I know NCL is on where their operation will decrease, flights being operated by a third party carrier next summer. What will happen to the crew's at these bases? Will an agreement be reached with the third party carriers to give ex-XLA crews an advantage?

[paul01942]

Does anyone know if XLA Airways are going bump? My partner flies as cabin crew on the B743 & B763 all the XLA staff have been given letters about redundancies and company streamlining? Apparently they are scrapping the B743's which are in the Travelcity Direct colour scheme! does that mean that holiday brand is being scrapped to? Seems they are focusing all there efforts on there B738 A/C's which without being harsh limits your capacities in regards to pax and cargo etc.
Also we hear that on top of this they have lost the MOD contract to an American carrier Omni Air who operate DC10's! how will the DC10 cope with the volume of pax and cargo that the current B743 takes out of BZZ to ASI and over to MPN? Is this really the beginning of the end for XLA are they suffering the same fate as European?:sad:

[warkman]

Its my understanbding that they are replacing the 747's with 767's and eventually A330's

[UFGBOY]

They are not going 'bust'
The MOD contract was not renewed by the MOD ; the operator of the a-c for the MOD run could not commit to its availablity; it therefore went to tender
The Pilots on that run were supplied by the operators of the a-c; cabin crew from the XL Pool
Several of the older types in the fleet are being disposed of as they go off lease; therefore a reduction in Crew numbers is needed for the next 18 months
XL have kept their staff well informed about what is going on
No pain; no gain
B 743 have high capacity as well as high operating costs; the SFB programme will be a mix of B767/A330 for the next 18 months ; thereafter all A330; 40 % less seats but maybe 50 % of the cost to operate (my guesstimates; not official figures; but hopefully fairly realistic)
If your partner is crew; he'she will have received all the communication from the company; posts such as yours do NOTHING but scaremonger amongst cutsomers/fellow employees and do no good whatsover IMHO

[paul01942]

Thank you for the response to the question I asked, just in case i'm unsure of something is'nt the whole meaning of this website to ask questions and find things out as well as deliver information and to assist people's queries? I asked a question Dungeon not scare mongering just a simple question so climb down of your self proclaimed pedastal please you started the post response really well answering questions i had asked, but then you have to finish like you did, its a shame as its people like you that make people leave the pprune site and discuss things elsewhere as negativity like that is not needed, if questions offend you then perhaps you should not sumit to sites like this:D

[Buster the Bear]

Postings here of rumours of airlines going 'bust' can have a massive detrimental effect on businesses that are doing well. Media folk read these pages and a slight rumour posted on here can turn up as gossip in the newspapers, thus undermining a 'good business'.

Your post referred to 'streamlining' which means just that, and not XL going 't!ts up'!

Folk involved with redundancy are quite legitimate to ask more, but stating that an airline is about to fold needs hard evidence to substantiate such a rumour.

[UFGBOY]

Paul

Not sure what you meean by sumit but I stand by what I said; your partner flying for XL should be reason enough for you not to make posts like yours; has your partner not had his/her questions answered from the internal communications? ; I did not find your questions offensive; just a little concerning

Also not too sure what in my response can be counted as negativity; I merely set out the facts as I am aware of them; coupled with a certain suspicion that you; not your partner is raising the queries; as Buster says, the viewership of this site is by default industry wide and the words bust and airlines in the same paragraph can do no good to anyone

Just for the record, European have not gone bust; they lost the TCY contract which obviously resulted in a downsizing of the company; as you will be aware many employees ended up at AAE then XL

Finally, the pax load on the ASI run is well coped with by a DC10; it is the cargo lift that will suffer but that is decision that the MOD have made

[Rainboe]

What does 'bump' mean? Is it a business expression that passed me by? This page of this thread shows how Pprune can allow people a vehicle to drag the good name of a company about, make extraordinary inferences and opinions and hints about the business model and health of a company, then scream when put right by some perfectly lucid answers! Pprune is a soapbox for free speech, however that right certainly gets abused frequently! Step forward Paul1942 for today's prize.

[cjhants]

oh dear rainboe, i might have to agree with you here. it seems to me that, if anything excel might actually be moving forward. they have decided to replace old and tired equipment with new. i know its not good news for those who may lose their jobs, but they could not keep this stuff flying economically for much longer.

[smudgethecat]

Father in law works for excel and he has heard today the a330,s are now not going to be happening ,he is very worried at present

[GW76]

Havent the A330's been ordered already...?

[TSR2]

That's strange .... Just received by mail an unsolicited 130 page glossy Travel City Direct Florida 2008 second edition brochure which features a full page devoted to the comfort and exceptional value for money 'Getting there in Style' on one of our branded XL Airways Boeing 767 or Airbus A330 aircraft. Mind you, a full page is also devoted to 'Flying on Scheduled' with BA, AA, US Airways or Continental.

Unusual thing about this brochure, there are no flight schedules or prices.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Does getting A330's make 'commercial' sense at XL?

I thought the idea was to save money - not spend even more?:ugh:

They should have bought A330's years ago - instead of that Air Atlantic Scrap!:hmm:

It would have made more sense.

[crundale]

Have to say i agree with UFGBOY and others, the comments by Paul seemed remarkably uninformed considering his partner had all the information. (And terrible spelling and punctuation...) And the only one getting animated was him...:eek: Simply reading UFGBOY's response would have given him the answers he was seeking.
The A330s are still on order, the company is at last taking the right approach to cutting costs and putting the airline in order. We grew at a ridiculous rate, in too many directions, and now we are getting back on the right path.
Announced today that no pilots will be laid off (except voluntarily), and there has been a lot of communication all the way through.
I think if this restructure is carried through we will be in a much stronger position to get through the winter and have the wonderful summer we are very much overdue!
:8 :)

[oliversarmy]

smudgethecat

Has your father-in-law wondered why half of Explorer House was in TLS last week ?

[3REDS]

Heard a rumour that Virgin is intrested in XL, can anyone confirm this!

[GW76]

You dont honestly think someone will be able to confirm that on here do you....?:rolleyes:

[smudgethecat]

According to the father in law his manager who passed on the news about the a330,s also said the company would not exist in its present form for very much longer hence his concern (plus at his age getting employment would be a big problem)

[rumair999]

quote ///Heard a rumour that Virgin is intrested in XL, can anyone confirm this!
I'm sure the company spokeman for XL on pprune ALIENS62:ok: will be able to answer the above we await your reply!!

[mattdking]

They are meant to be getting their knew aircraft in 2008 anyone know what type they will be?

[BYALPHAINDIA]

XL 767-300's on Sanford flights etc this winter.

TF AME Dep MAN last week to Air Ivoire.

I would be surprised at XL going 'Airbus' thou with 330's??:hmm:

[rufus.t.firefly]

Using Mytravel A330's next year for some of the TCD flights to Sanford :)

[ROSSKi MYT]

how can they use MYT A330s, they are now part of ThomasCook and 2 TCX will be
using them on their own routes. XL own A330 are being delivered next year.

[GW76]

Perhaps TCD are just getting an allocation of seatsvon MYT/TCX. Its not that an unreasonable suggestion.

[rufus.t.firefly]

Well when We got our booking confirmation it stated the XL 767 has been swopped for a My Travel A330 .......

[Gordon_uk3]

From what I have seen from others the MAN SFB flights till February are to be an XL Airways 767 then replaced by a MYT 330 until the summer whne a leased XL Airways France 330 will take over for the summer. Presumably then XL Airways UK 330 will take over when they are delivered. :)

[airchabum]

An XL France (formerly Star) A330-200 will operate the MAN-SFB programme from 1st May. XL's own A330s will be delivered in winter 2008.

For info all the 747s have gone as have the 757s, 767-200s (G-BOPB is currently flying Hajj but has effectively left the fleet) and 767-300 G-VKNH, leaving G-VKNG/I to operate the longhaul services.

Cheers

[BYALPHAINDIA]

From what I have seen from others the MAN SFB flights till February are to be an XL Airways 767 then replaced by a MYT 330 until the summer whne a leased XL Airways France 330 will take over for the summer. Presumably then XL Airways UK 330 will take over when they are delivered. :)


My head is spinning :ugh::ugh:

[bellyhold]

NG op UK-SFB and NI op UK-Caribbean. Strong noises from AAI that their new 744 (TF-ANA) new to them from All Nippon is being wet leased to XLA

[airchabum]

Having a more detailed look at the current plan shows that LGW/MAN-SFB flights will be a MYT A330 from 29Feb. It becomes a TCX callsign from 30Mar but I dare say it's the same aircraft. The above is to cover planned maint on the XL 763 fleet. From 1May LGW-SFB reverts to XL 763 and MAN-SFB will be XL France A330.

Interesting to read about the AAI 744. I understand Florida bookings are really strong at the moment due to the weak dollar so I wouldn't be surprised to see extra capacity being sought. We'll see in time no doubt.

Cheers

[Avitor]

I might have missed any possible comment on this, if so, how sad, never mind. Anybody know if XL are doing the Corfu charter flights from Stansted in 2008? Please!

[D-ABAA]

Last I heard XL pulled any STN ops at end of summer 07.

D-ABAA

[Avitor]

Oh dear! How sad, many thanks D-ABAA

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

I think you will find XL are doing CFU for summer 2008

XLA3526 mon 0600 19/may/08 - 06/oct/08,

They are also doing - ACE/FAO/HER/IBZ/LCA/LPA/PFO/TFS/ZTH.

Other flights to CFU are-

FCA5190 mon 2310 19/may/2008 - 29/sep/2008,
FCA5502 fri 0625 02/may/2008 - 31/oct/2008.

[D-ABAA]

I stand corrected!

Many Thanks Dont tell the pax

Great news to hear they will be back! :D:ok:

[Avitor]

I think you will find XL are doing CFU for summer 2008... DONTTELLTHE PAX.
=======================================================
That's encouraging! I am planning to go early June, in fact I AM going at that time, around June 9th. From Stansted.

As a matter of interest, surely, the sky's of London are crowded! Why is the unused Alconbury ignored for expansion instead of HTR? It has a lengthy runway, plenty of land but, the flight path would encroach on John Major's peace of mind I suppose!

[airhumberside]

How come the STN flights aren't on XL's flight timetable?

[Avitor]

airhumberside.....
How come the STN flights aren't on XL's flight timetable?
===========================================
That's what prompted my enquiry! :confused:

[Buster the Bear]

Are they charters on behalf of another tour operator rather than one from the XL stable?

[Avitor]

Buster.....They could be, however I travel flight only and deal with XL exclusively so I can't be sure.

In edit.....There's no indication of a third party on the bumf. Just looked at last years.

[Stanstedeye]

The STN website has highlighted all XL flights with the Union Flag, as it is the only UK owned charter airline flying from STN.

[airhumberside]

Last year Airtours took seats on some XL STN flights

[wednesday10]

thought it was owned by a icelandic company??????????:rolleyes:

[caaardiff]

I know this isnt related to STN. But on XL's website, CFU is shown on the list from CWL. But doesn't seem to be bookable.
PMI and ACE are also on the list which were operated during 2007 (PMI by XL, and ACE by KM)
Does anyone have any info on this new route for XL?
The only other operator on this route from CWL is TOM

[Avitor]

Corfu is seasonal. May to October, all may well be revealed after Christmas.

[airhumberside]

thought it was owned by a icelandic company??????????
It was for a time, before a management buyout

[Navy_Adversary]

I have just had a holiday in Thailand and had a flight booked with Nok Air from DMK- CNX (Bangkok Don Mueang-Chiang Mai).
My ticket was Nok Plus which is a premium economy type seat, on checking in I was told this wasn't available and they gave me a small refund.
When the aircraft pulled onto the stand it was a XL 738 G-OXLC (I think)
Had a look on airliners.net and it would seem XL have another aircraft with Nok Air for the winter.
British pilot, co-pilot and purser plus 2 or 3 Thai FAs.
Nice flight but not much room.

[TSR2]

The other aircraft on lease to Nok Air is B737-8Q8 G-XLAI

[MUFC_fan]

So you sampled Britishness earlier than you thought then!:}

[Navy_Adversary]

Indeed
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/gus0898uk/IMG_0501.jpg

[Avitor]

XL have an a/c at E. Midlands this summer for Corfu. That will be my baby. The flight times are perfect and car parking prices, at Donnington Park are quite reasonable.

[sawtooth]

Any info on how XLs first scheduled route - NOC is going? I've spoken with a couple of people who flew over Christmas and were very happy with the service.

[Cool Wavy NG738]

I have been on a couple of the NOC flights now, much better than easyjet or Ryanair (no hidden extras, taxes, baggage charges) seems to be the general opinion from customers so I'm told.

The comfortable new aircraft, smart, friendly, enthusiastic and approachable cabin crew seem to be popular too. I'm sure word of mouth in the local area will soon spread that XL are doing a good job on this route. Fingers crossed for even better success. :ok:

[iwak]

How is the noc route performing load wise?

[transwede]

Seems XL are being very sensible in their expansion, given the current tough market conditions. They are expanding into the scheduled market, in order to rely less on the extremely difficult charter market. They have cut capacity, both in terms of fleet and network. NCL used to have 3 based units (inc 1 sub carrier), this summer there has been a dramatic reduction in flights, to just 1 based 737. Obviously their old business model was not financially viable therefore they have reacted appropriately. A wise move.

Together with utilising new aircraft, with better economics and leasing aircraft out in the quiet winter months (which must generate quite alot of revenue) are XL not on track to do well?

[timboab]

How come I put up a new thread yesterday, got a couple of replies to it, and all of a sudden my whole thread that I started has disappeared??

It was a valid question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bellyhold]

MAN-SFB umtil May08 will be B767-300 G-VKNG. May onward is scheduled to be A330-200 from the french fleet like to be Sierra delta

[timboab]

Who are Sierra Delta (Sorry I am not up on all the jargon!!)

With the Jumbos going from their fleet has XL airways overall fleet gotten smaller?

I had heard a rumour that they have got another Jumbo???

Anyone any ideas??

[timboab]

what does wet leased mean??

[iflycwl]

The CWL-SFB route now confirmed as operating on an A330 leased from My Travel.

Will serve this route for 7 weeks.

Much better than the B747-300, at least it will fit on an air-bridge here at CWL, no more coaching passengers to & from

[timboab]

Where is CWL????

An airbridge????? Whats that???

Can you tell I am a novice!!!!

[timboab]

ah ha- CWL = Cardiff!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iflycwl]

Indeed CWL is little old Cardiff

Airbridge is what we call them - jetway / walkway that connects to aircraft door or were you being sarky ??

[timboab]

No not at all-I was not being sarcastic. I know a lot of people on here are smart & sarcastic but no it was a genuine question - Not all of us on here have a vast knowledge of planes.

Much of my knowledge on the subject is that they have 2 (mostly) engines, wings and are best when they stay up in the air!!!

Would still like to know more about Travel City & their plans/aircraft for the flights to Sanford Florida though :-)

[goldeneye]

The CWL-SFB route now confirmed as operating on an A330 leased from My Travel.

Will serve this route for 7 weeks.

Much better than the B747-300, at least it will fit on an air-bridge here at CWL, no more coaching passengers to & from

So is this an Airbus A330-300 of MyTravel Scandinavia, as all the MYT UK fleet with be TCX this summer and all are going to be utilised.
And will it operate on a TCX or XLA flight number, who is providing the crew.

[GW76]

Its only for 7 weeks and the UK based A330s are not fully utilised during this early period.

[timboab]

Anyone know any more about Travel City Direct?

Where did the old 747's go????

[timboab]

I have to say I have travelled with Travel City/XL airways quite a bit from either Scotland or Manchester and found them pretty reliable. The main issue I have always had in Glasgow is the fact that they can never seem to load (And unload) the flight quick enough but that really was the only problem/issue I ever had with them. Who's fault this was I don't know but other than that was quite pleased with them.

Is Travel City going to bring in Jumbos again?

Not being very up to date with things can I ask a (silly) question? Is the days of Jumbo Jet Travel coming to an end? I am aware that it has been around for a long time but are companies like trave city and the like starting to shy away from these monsters??

[MUFC_fan]

I have to say I have travelled with Travel City/XL airways quite a bit from either Scotland or Manchester and found them pretty reliable


Before Christmas, my auntie went to SFB with City Direct from MAN and on the return journey the plane took off from SFB and returned 5 hours into the flight. Next day the same happened except it was only in the air for 3 hours.

Finally, on the third day they were put on a MCO-LGW with VS and then BA upto MAN.

They can be reliable but when it goes wrong they don't have many options but to wait for the plane to repair.

Could anybody explain why they sent her MCO-LGW-MAN instead of just MCO-MAN? Cheers.

[UFGBOY]

maybe because there were no seats available on the direct flight?

[bellyhold]

a/c op will be with B737-800 at moment. slim chance it will be one of the two new 900 series a/c

[bellyhold]

Sorry Sierra Delta (SD) is the tail reg of the French A330-200 planned MAN-SFB

[airchabum]

timboab

re the 747s TF-AMJ is doing Hajj flights for Garuda but I don't know where the others went. TCD operated 747-200s in previous years and most of those have been scrapped I think. There are no current plans for TCD to operate the 747 again, but never say never!

It does seem like the days of the 747 are numbered certainly as far as Transatlantic flights are concerned...A330s/777s are simply a lot more economical. At Gatwick Virgin are the only airline operating 747s nowadays :(

Cheers