GIBRALTAR (LXGB)

[Bumz_Rush]

Is it true that Monarch are not scheduling any flights after November.

If so I would suggest that to avoid a complete termination of the service that any users of the Luton or Manchester to Gibraltar service, E Mail the company, and tell the cabin crew to log their concern, and also to tell all ticket staff that there do not support the removal.

Bumz

[FlyZB]

Flights are not bookable via their website after 31st October but perhaps they're still to be released. There has been no official announcement to say that GIB flights are being stopped. If they are, I cannot understand the reasoning behind it. I don't know about LTN but the MAN - GIB flights do very well indeed, all year round.

[Jinkster]

I flew Monarch to Gib last summer (July) - B757 and it was full!

I hope they dont cancel - love the place!!

:)

[SeamusCVT]

A lot odf the scheduled airlines tend to release their Winter (or Sumer routes) at the same time. Normally Winter routes are released in June or July, so I would not worry too much about the route not yet showing.

[FlyZB]

Thing is though, ZB already have much of their winter schedule on sale already. All existing routes from MAN and LTN seem to be on sale up to March 2007 except for GIB. Thinking about this, they also seem to be expanding rather rapidly of late with many new routes being launced (BHX - MJV, LEI, PMI, MAH, ACE; MAN - MAH, ACE; LGW - ACE) without the addition of many extra aircraft. One additional A321 so far and so surely some routes have to give in order to make room, unless they bring in more capacity. MAN has already lost NAP and MAD in the last 6 months. I just hope ZB don't turn into another bmibaby, dropping routes to make way for newer 1s.

[airhumberside]

Dont forget Monarch can always reduce their charter work if they need extra capacity

[firstforfirstchoice]

As some of you have mentioned Monarch Scheduled have released their Winter 2006/7 schedules, but the website also mentions that there are more routes to be released soon, for the winter 2006/7 season, so we will have to wait and see.

Cheers.

[FlyZB]

Yeh, just noticed that. Hopefully GIB will be announced shortly then. Wonder what else will be announced for the winter? ZB seem to be going from strength to strength right now. I reckon in a few years there won't be much of their charter operation left. Just a handful of routes from LGW and MAN. Quite amazing how such a well established charter operator can transform itself into a low cost airline in such a short period of time. Good on them! I love the ZB product and long may it continue!

[Jet A1]

Low cost -- not really when I was comapring fare for MAN-ALC and having to sit it out on a charter aircraft configuration aint worth paying top dollar for......

Nice middle of the night flight times too......

[Engine overtemp]

Oh dear Jet A1, the old chestnut of charter seat config again. I suggest next time you are parked next to a Monarch aircraft downroute, you leap out of your shiny GB jet with a tape measure and actually measure the seat pitch!

And where exactly are these "middle of the night" flights? The latest I can find for the middle of August is a 15.55 departure compared with GB's offering of flying via LGW departing MAN at 16.15 and arriving into ALC at 23.55. That's nearly 8 hours! The return flight leaves ALC at 00.40 and you eventually arrive back into MAN at 07.40 (Check yourself, going out on 14th August and returning on 25th August),

Now prices, Monarch not cheap admittedly at £193.85 but GB takes the biscuit at £269.00.

I know which airline I would fly with!

[TartinTon]

Nice to see JetA1 keeping up with the latest developments. On most Monarch aircraft they have removed at least one row of seats to allow 6/7 rows of extra legroom seats at £15 a pop. 35 inches...better legroom than GB Club service and at a fraction of the cost. Good choice of flight times from MAN....I know who I choose to fly with. Keep flying GB, JetA1

[firstforfirstchoice]

Well I know that GIB has been rumeored to start from BHX, but this might happen next summer 2007.
Monarch Ailrines have expanded their BHX operation, due to MytravelLite ceasing operations. I have flew with ZB from BHX a few times, since they started operations, and their pax loads were always healthy and they also provide an excellent service.
So hopefully Monarch will expand further from BHX.
Three A321's will be based at BHX this Summer 2006.

Cheers.

[Bumz_Rush]

The extra leg room seats up front are a very nice idea, however until pax actually use them the rear section is often very overcrowded.
Last ZB LTN-GIB the front was empty, and there was two or three empty seats in the aft.

What was the ramifications for weight and balance. ??????????????

Any ZB ops/ flight deck please comment.

I was fortunate to spend a day stuck down route with a ZB crew, and they had no information regarding dropping LTN-GIB.

Until I get my ZB Gold card status back (and thus free seat selection), I will continue to sit in the last but one row at the tail end.

Bumz

[factanonverba]

The extra leg room seats up front are a very nice idea, however until pax actually use them the rear section is often very overcrowded.


Care to expand on that? 2 on a seat?

[longarm]

"What was the ramifications for weight and balance. ??????????????"

It's hardly rocket science. We put more bags in the forward hold and less in the rear.

[Bumz_Rush]

3 is....

Thanks re the freight in the forward hold.....

Bumz

[bottom rung]

Not looking good....
www.chronicle.gi/readarticle.php?id=000009142&title=The%20Gibraltar%20Chronicle

[TartinTon]

Interesting that the Minister forgets that the Governments own greed in levying a £10 service charge for each departing passenger also has a role to play in this. The charged was increased by over 42% from 01Apr....it used to be £7. This plus the 8% followed by a proposed 25% increase by the MOD is just ridiculous. The equivalent charge from AGP is just over £4.
I wonder what sort of deal the government is prepared to offer Stelios if any?
They seem to want to screw the airlines and by extension the passengers for everything they can get but I bet the Minister will bend over backwards to try and get EasyJet/Cruise in.

[nivsy]

The increase in landing fees are appropriate. For quite a considerable period of time (years) the MoD thus the UK Taxpayer - have been subsidising the Commercial operation at this MoD airfield. Due to the operations of Monarch and GibAirways, it is a requirement for MoD staff to be available to keep the airfield open - and this manpower can be expensive. Further the landing fees are within guidelines as published for civilian use of MoD airfields.

[haughtney1]

Nivsy, the simple economic reality mayby that these published guidelines will guide Monarch to stop operating into the rock...it makes no sense for a commercial operation to endanger its bottom line on the basis of a levy dictated to them and deemed "appropriate" by those who have a vested interest in saying so. Government/MOD etc...have a far from umblemished record of cost efficiency, perhaps it is "appropriate" for Monarch to take its business elsewhere?

[nivsy]

And the MoD is now trying to be cost effective...and it should not have to support the operations of Monarch. Its a no win situation - open to criticism when trying to be efficient yet also criticised on other grounds such as "not doing its bit" for the region or in this case the rock.

Monarch, like the MoD, must make a decision on what they are prepared to pay. However lets be clear here, the landing fees issue is not Monarchs main driver here - its a good band wagon for them to join - however their business strategy and indeed their ever increasing presence at AGP had possibly earmarked a withdrawal from GIB some time ago.

Oh and most certainly the Govt of GIB could play its part.

[IB4138]

This may encourage the Spanish government to approve the building of a new airport in the region, which has already been mooted. It is only the Gibraltar economy that will suffer in the long run.

[G-AZUK]

if the Governor of Gibraltar has got any say in the matter it could be bad news for Monarch, I hear he was less than impressed with the impromptu air display over his official residence the other week!:eek:

[TartinTon]

From the Monarch website:

Monarch withdraws Manchester-Gibraltar service

Low cost airline Monarch has confirmed the withdrawal of its Manchester-Gibraltar service.

The four-times weekly service will end on 19th July 2006 - terminating Gibraltar's only direct link to the North of England.

Monarch blames the Government of Gibraltar for failing to put forward any proposals which would have reduced the high cost of operating to the Rock.

On the decision, Monarch's scheduled services Managing Director Tim Jeans said:


"We've been endeavouring to persuade the Government of Gibraltar to address the issue of costs since September last year and absolutely nothing has been done. There have been plenty of warm words and promises of 'meetings' - but all that has happened is that costs have risen, and are set to rise further. Quite how the Government of Gibraltar can expect to share the benefits of low cost access when all it does is procrastinate and dither is beyond me."

Monarch will re-deploy the aircraft used on the route to increase services to Malaga and Palma, and is keen to stress that its daily service to London Luton is unaffected by the decision to end Manchester services.

Looks like the Minister has some explaining to do!

[Powerjet1]

Monarch will re-deploy the aircraft used on the route to increase services to Malaga and Palma, and is keen to stress that its daily service to London Luton is unaffected by the decision to end Manchester services.
Luton, at least for the moment, is still only bookable until the end of Oct. From the above, can we assume now that the route will continue in November and through the winter. Was operated 5 x weekly last winter.

[nivsy]

[QUOTE=TartinTon]Looks like the Minister has some explaining to do Dont you believe it - they will point the finger at the MoD who can no longer subsidise the ZB service.

[Buster the Bear]

Monarch have had a 'dust up' already with the MOD/Local Council relating to Newquay and its fees!

[FlyZB]

Why is it only the MAN route being dropped and not LTN as well? Surely if there's a dispute over charges then they'd pull all routes out of GIB, not just one.
Anyway, i hope this spare capacity will be put to good use during the winter schedule and not just used to increase frequencies on ZB's existing routes out of MAN. A Lisbon service would be nice :ok:

[airhumberside]

By dropping MAN, they are putting pressure on the Gibraltar authorities. They clearly still want to serve GIB but are warning that if charges aren't reduced they will be forced to pull out

Also the LTN service has been far longer established than MAN so probably is more successful with higher loads and maybe even higher yields

[nivsy]

Mmmmm. It takes a little more than Monarch Airlines to put "pressure" on Gib Authorities!

The simple fact of the matter is - the airfield is MoD owned - Monarch operate around 50% of their flights outside MoD core hours - resulting in additional shifts and overtime of MoD employees just for Civilian operations - also having to consider payment of NATS service for ATC. This is a military airfield prepared to permit civilian flights - but should not have to remain open or maintain cover for a civilian operator at a cost effectively to the tax payer (of the UK). They (Monarch) have got away with this and when the push comes to the shove they wanna run....albeit with MAN at the moment - possibly to test the water - but there is no guarantee LTN will not follow. Thats their call - a shame to lose them - but why should the MoD be held responsible for ZB not making sufficient return on this route - ironically by the way operated by B757 rathet than the smaller AB320.


Nivsy

[airhumberside]

Isnt there a case for the Gibraltar authorities paying at least some of the extra costs associated with the ZB out of core hours flights on the grounds they benefit tourism?

[nivsy]

Yes...there is a strong case for Gib Authority to pay and assist for services of commercial nature out of GIB. Unfortunately one would have to understand the political situation in GIB - and quite frankly it is somewhat long winded and would seem rather "odd" to the outsider. Monarch themselves - tonight on Gib TV went as far as to state that it is the Govt of Gib that has failed to rectify or seek a solution to this course of action undertaken by ZB (and not the MoD).....however it can also be argued that GIB (govt and tourist board) does very little to enhance tourists beyond the day visit - and its something they in the industry should try and address before its too late.


Nivsy

[Bumz_Rush]

What are the core hours for Gibraltar.

The scheduled flights mostly operate at the same time, to facilitate optimisation of the useage charges. The amortised costs should be reduced.

Is Gibraltar still a Master Diversion Airfield, or am I 20 years out of date, thinkign about staff being on duty, etc.


Sweep the runway I land back on on Tuesday with Monarch, narrowly mising the Easter holiday.


Bumz

[unwiseowl]

Rumour is that Jet2 are poised to take over the route.

[chevvron]

According to RAF En Route Supplement, Gib is open for civil traffic 0700 - 2145hrs daily (presumably UTC); for mil it's 0700 - 1600 mon - thu and 0700 - 1300 fri; not normally available at weekends (presumably being a restriction on handling).

[SectorSafe]

My money would be on GB doing it out of MAN either as a W pattern via LGW/LHR or using the MAN based aircraft. This is exactly what GB where hoping for....

[qwertyuiop]

SectorSafe,

Im sure you know GB have done MAN-GIB in the past and pulled out of the route. Gib has many problems for airlines, count the number of diversions leaving a/c and pax in the wrong place.

[Bumz_Rush]

I have a meeting with these guys on Tuesday, and will ask the question, as raised above.


The core hours are very wide, so there should be no reason for the restrictions.
However local staffing was always different for the terminal, the ground staff worked 1/4 day morning, and 1/4 day afternoons, always leaving plenty of time for sun sea sand , and general recreation. I had several friends who did not want a real job, or even a full time job, as they were working for GB at the airport........

Bumz

[Powerjet1]

Monarch now have LTN-GIB bookable from 1 Nov 06. Seems to be a daily flight ex sat. Daily throughout the summer.

[Buster the Bear]

I wonder if the Gib flights from Luton are still subsidised by the MOD?

[chevvron]

Only if they're specifically for armed forces personnel.

[Bumz_Rush]

For non EU passengers:
Gibraltar does not require a Schengen visa for access, as NOT part of EU, but requires a British visa.
Spain does.
At present you are unable to use Gibraltar as an access route to Spain, unless you have a UK visa.
This situation must be resolved before Gibraltar can not be a dual use airport.
Not impossible look at Basle as an example.
Bumz

[LGS6753]

Bumz-
Although Basel-Mulhouse airport is 'shared' Swiss/French, neither has territorial ambitions on the other. However, the Spanish claim sovereignty over Gibraltar. That will always be the problem.

[Bumz_Rush]

According to a contact on the Rock, the incident was "caused" by the failure of the radar on the rock.......not certain why this should be the cause, as the procedure published is quite clear...but the closeness to the Morish Castle should have made a great picture.

So how is the CM prgressing....????

[Frank Poncherello]

Trouble at 'Mill :bored:


AIR PASSENGERS HIT BY LENGTHY DELAYS AFTER SHOCK MOD AIRPORT CLOSURE
• “We will minimise risk of this happening again” – says MoD
F Oliva reports
A serious row is developing between local airlines and the Ministry of Defence following the latter’s unprecedented decision to close down the Gibraltar airport yesterday afternoon, due to illness affecting two air traffic controllers.


The move comes at a critical time for the airport, with a raging controversy over increased landing charges not dampening political confidence in an agreement for commercial expansion being reached at the Tripartite Forum this summer.
The MoD decision caused widespread disruption to air services yesterday with GB Airways [and Monarch], having to make alternative arrangements for its flights from Gibraltar, and having to bus passengers to Malaga airport.
Last night’s GB Airways flight was not expected to arrive at Gatwick airport until 2.35 am with the passengers subsequently having to be transported by coach to their Heathrow destination.
“The situation is incredible. The companies should not allow this to happen,” a well placed source at GB Airways said yesterday.
The Ministry of Defence confirmed that the RAF Airfield would close at 1750 hours after two controllers were “taken off roster due to unforeseen sickness.”
The remaining two could only offer “a limited safe service due to important legal restrictions on their operating hours,” added an MoD spokesman.
Airline executives were hard at work last night making the necessary alternative flight arrangements to minimise inconvenience and make this “as sweet as possible” for passengers.
However prospects for passengers looked glum as they faced the discomfort of lengthy delays and two coach trips before arriving at their destination well into the early hours.
British Airways apologised to passengers in writing, saying the matter was beyond the airline’s control.
As a result of the MoD decision, last night’s incoming GB Airways flight had to be diverted to Malaga and the passengers were coached down to the Rock.
For its part the 8.30pm flight to Heathrow had to be rescheduled to operate out of Malaga airport with passengers checking in and subsequently being coached to Malaga. The flight was expected to land at Gatwick at 2.35 am with passengers transported to Heathrow airport by coach.
Informed sources yesterday linked this development to the on-going row about landing charges, with the MoD arguing that the only way to keep these at a minimum would be to close down at night.
MOD STATEMENT
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: “Air Traffic Control at RAF Gibraltar is contracted to NATS (National Air Traffic Services). Unfortunately two of yesterday’s aircraft controllers have been taken off roster due to unforeseen sickness and the remaining two controllers can now only offer a limited safe service due to important legal restrictions on their operating hours.”
“This means that RAF Gibraltar is unable to handle the two evening flights, ZB062 from Luton operated by Monarch Airways and GB Airways flight BA6906 from Gatwick. We have reviewed all available options carefully but unfortunately there is no leeway given the strict legal requirements. Today’s schedules will be unaffected by the shortfall in controllers. MoD, in conjunction with the Senior Air Traffic Controller has adjusted the controllers’ operating window and we have therefore notified a restriction in the airfield opening hours which means we can cater for all pre-planned movements.”
“On behalf of NATS (Air Traffic Control) MOD wishes to apologise for this unforeseen inconvenience, which is beyond our control. Flight safety is though, as all will appreciate, of paramount importance. MoD will be taking up the issue with NATS to minimise the risk of this happening again.”

[nivsy]

This is the second time that this has happened since NATS were awarded the contract from SERCO.

Looks as if their "lead in period" for this service is somewhat longer than envisaged!!

One wonders how SERCO would have dealt with the lack of staff compared to NATS. certainly tonight on GIB TV the Chief Minsiter had a lot to say about it - somewhat ironic when the Gib Govt does very little to enhance and promote the airfield on their own.


Nivsy

[Bumz_Rush]

Has the report covering the city tour G/A been published yet.????