Jetstar (Oz) recruiting in Singapore [Archive]

The Bunglerat

29th Mar 2006, 00:43

I'm not going to get into the sticky subject of 'pay-for-type-ratings.' Nevertheless, I've also heard from reliable sources that JQ are having more trouble recruiting drivers than they had originally anticipated. And yet we have no shortage of suitably qualified applicants out there - including regionals and GA. If so, just what the hell is going on with JQ management and the folks in recruiting?!? Unrealistic expectations? Too fussy? Only interested in drivers who are already type-rated or flying some other jet transport? Okay, so I accept that the international start-up is going to need some experienced crews to get the show up and running, but I just cannot fathom why they would be having such a hard time filling seats. Makes no sense.

Capn Bloggs

29th Mar 2006, 00:51

Easy. You've gotta be from the new Ansett! :}

evyjet

29th Mar 2006, 01:18

A mate of mine has got many thousands of hours of Jet time (mostly International), and applied to Jetstar in Early January...... Hasn't heard a thing since! He is desperate to come home!!

So even with good quality jet time, doesn't seem to make a difference.

If Jetstar are so "desperate" what the hell is going on behind those doors?

Have a feeling when they go International, and Aircraft start arriving, this company is going to be struggling with Internationally experienced crews!

Maybe they want no Jet experience unless you are Airbus rated? God only knows, theres so many conflicting stories.

Animalclub

29th Mar 2006, 01:18

If so, just what the hell is going on with JQ management and the folks in recruiting?!?

How else are they going to get an international junket?

ur2

29th Mar 2006, 01:52

The reason the more experienced pilots have not been contacted yet is J* are waiting to see how many of the current crew will apply for the A330, then they can make a clearer judgement on who, how many and were to place the experienced pilots (of which there are many).
Their are, I can assure you no shortage of very good applicants.
I have been told.

Going Boeing

29th Mar 2006, 02:11

Hey guys. My original post is not a wind up. I was just reporting the facts. They flew up on QF31 and they are definitely in Singapore to recruit pilots. :p

Gnadenburg

29th Mar 2006, 02:13

I know one experienced fellow who has applied.

Have you applied ur2?

podbreak

29th Mar 2006, 02:54

their woes along with QFs future woes flow from the same source; One comfortable team of executives miss the text book unfailing idea: look after your employees, they'll look after customers, and the customers will look after the shareholders.

boeingwest

29th Mar 2006, 04:23

Absolute bollocks
I know of @ 50 to 60 Qlink folk with applications in to JQ, so don't believe the spin doctor cr@p. Oh that's right I forgot QFLink applications don't count:ok:
If you mean the majority of those National Jet 712 FO floggers, mate most are there because the QF group don't want them, they'll be in the navy (woops National Jet) for many years to come... It's funny what a shiny new machine does to some people...

"Sir yes sir!" :p

The_Cutest_of_Borg

29th Mar 2006, 05:07

There are trained crew available to fly them immediately... the QF crews who are going to be cooling their heels on reserve for 18 months while their aircraft are seconded to J*.

Talk about a waste of money.:mad:

Keg

29th Mar 2006, 06:18

Borg is spot on. QF is going to be carrying a significant excess of crew (which makes the QF books look crap) whilst J* hires crew on crappy conditions but shows a significant saving over the mainline crew. Of course, the 'group' still loses a ****e load of money but hey, as long as the J* 'silo' looks good I guess.

QF would be better off sending the mainline crews to J* for the period the A330 is there rather than train their own crews on it only to then send them onto the 787 shortly afterward. It may 'cost' a bit in the short term but it'll save the 'group' in the long term!

Of course, what would I know- I'm just a mainline pilot! :rolleyes: :E

rescue 1

29th Mar 2006, 07:54

Good thinking Keg.

In fact Jetstar could pay the now approved payscale and QF Main simply tops up the salary to existing mainline conditions.

Win win for all I would have thought...

hoss

29th Mar 2006, 08:44

'Qantaslink 50-60 pilots with Jetstar applications"........I think you could conservatively triple that figure.

:)

Hugh Jarse

29th Mar 2006, 08:53

UNtick that box. Magic happens :E

Mud Skipper

29th Mar 2006, 17:10

Keg,
QF would be better off sending the mainline crews to J* for the period the A330 is there rather than train their own crews
We have already been told that J* management does not want mailine pilots anywhere near their operation as we will infect their workforce, with what I can only speculate.
Are mainline pilots being deliberately insulted by Joyce or does he & J* just want to ensure we can't remind their pilots about selfworth and what they should have been paid if RH and the J* Puppet Clowns had properly represented them. :ugh:

Normasars

29th Mar 2006, 21:08

Mud Skipper,

Don't laugh mate but I have heard that the "suxcessor" to GD could very well be the Irish Village Idiot.

The rumour is rampant that AJ is being groomed for the job:yuk:

jakethemuss

29th Mar 2006, 23:49

Peter Gregg will be the next CEO of QF although John Borghetti is making a late run.

The Leprauchan is not in the running this time around.

Rumour also has it that the only JPC member to oppose the recent sell out has resigned from the council as the other 4 yes men said that he had lost their trust.

John Howell stand proud! As the only member of the JPC with any real Airline experience, and with your vast overseas experience at least you knew what you were worth. To be ganged up on by those 4 would be like being slapped about with a wet tissue.

Maybe they could fix up the "retention bonus" (which AIPA got them by the way, a fact often overlooked), or better still address dual bases before one of their own colleagues has an incident driving 28000k in 9 months to get to work. Fair bit of 'I'm alright Jack' involved by the sounds of it.

Raise a glass to John Howell, a man of integrity!

B A Lert

29th Mar 2006, 23:59

Mud Skipper,
Don't laugh mate but I have heard that the "suxcessor" to GD could very well be the Irish Village Idiot.
The rumour is rampant that AJ is being groomed for the job:yuk:

AJ may be a physically small guy but he is an intellectual giant. I'd be happy to back him any day against almost everyone who inhabits these forums. If it's all so easy Normasars, why aren't you at the leading edge of a major company instead of defaming someone who is doing the best job he can as he, and his boss, sees fit? He must be doing something right.

jakethemuss

30th Mar 2006, 00:07

B A Lert = Simon Westaway?:ok:

Get back to telling people why the disabled should fly Jetstar and stop crawling up Al's bum!:E

B A Lert

30th Mar 2006, 00:46

With such intelligent thoughts as have been offered by Jake and Norma, it's very easy to understand why pilots as a group are held in such poor regard by those who can think a bit deeper than their own wallet or a little broader than their own (very) narrow perspective. It's time to get out into the real world to see how it really thinks and operates guys.

jakethemuss

30th Mar 2006, 01:29

I see a real world where the elite (CEO's, Politicians and the Elite) are attempting to reduce the income and lifestyles of the employees in order to lift returns to major shareholders (the Elite) at the expense of the employees.

I see a real world where CEO's who participate in this activity are so significantly rewarded with ridiculous salaries (400+ times the average wage) that the incentive for others to join the club is far too tempting to ignore.

I see a real world where Politicians are paid a pension at age 40 for the rest of their lives indexed (but not means tested) and then take positions within industries that just happened to have dealings with their previous portfolios.

I see a real world where the children of the employees are being killed by bullets paid for by the elite.

I see a real world where a government can constantly lie about children overboard, kickbacks to Saddam, weapons of mass destruction, tariffs and protectionism, draconian industrial relations laws invented by the elite - for the elite, and still the masses (the employees) behave like lemmings.

In fact B A Lert, I see a real world where unless the employees say enough you will lose everything you cherish because you will be so busy living to work that you will not be able to give the required attention to the things that really matter.

I choose not to see your real world of 'if we don't do it someone else will do it cheaper'. I choose to see my real world, where I know what I am worth, what my family is worth and what my fellow professionals are worth, and I am prepared to act in a way that sees that worth recognised.

Now, what real world are you in?

Datum

30th Mar 2006, 02:58

Very well said JacktheMuss!!!...you should post more often:ok:

Confucius once said:

'Three things are needed for government: Weapons, Food and Trust. If a ruler cannot hold onto all three, he should give up the weapons first and the food next. Trust should be guarded to the end: without trust we cannot stand'

Like I have said before. Trust and Integrity are essential for an environment of mutual respect. Without mutual respect there is no cohesion.... subsequently leading to poor morale and unhappiness...

What world do you live in B A Lert? :confused:

Normasars

30th Mar 2006, 04:10

B A Jerk

Sorry to be so late to reply to your post but I have been busy
doing my bit to fulfil my contract as a employee.

Looks like I need say no more as some others have spoken for me.

Jake n Datum:ok:

Animalclub

30th Mar 2006, 06:27

I see a real world where the elite (CEO's, Politicians and the Elite) are attempting to reduce the income and lifestyles of the employees in order to lift returns to major shareholders (the Elite) at the expense of the employees.

Jake - if you're a pilot...

1 - No one is reducing your income
2 - You chose the lifestyle (I presume you knew what the job entailed - if you didn't it's your fault)
3 - It's the shareholders funds that give you a job. No investors, no job.

jakethemuss

30th Mar 2006, 08:26

Very simplistic approach. I'm glad you picked one paragraph.

1. The salaries of all Pilots in Australia are under attack. If I work 10% more for the same money, I lose 10% of my family time. Not hard really.

2. The profession I joined has changed considerably. I knew the terms and conditions when I joined. Things are changing and it is the fear environment falsely created by some who believe that "others" will do the job. I have yet to meet enough "others" to validate that claim.

3. Two way street. I challenge all shareholders in Qantas to withdraw their support tomorrow. Won't happen! Know why? Because people like me will see value in the business and buy the shares at the lower prices as people bail out.

You see, the sharemarket is just like the race track. As one I admire put it "Gambling in Suits".

Your belief that without the current shareholder funds we would all be rooned is quite henny penny. It is called diversification of a portfolio, and with JBWere recommending an outperform at the moment on QAN any shares sold would be snapped up. Try a market depth search. Shareholders are gamblers pure and simple.

I am a professional pilot. I will not allow my profession to be degraded to allow CEO's, the elite, and gamblers to pocket the value that I have built in my profession.

Next.

cunninglinguist

30th Mar 2006, 10:34

I can beat that evyjet, have a friend with over 10000 hrs jet, check and trained by Jet* and can't get a phone call ( and no he's not one of those FO " floggers " boeingwest, tho I think I know who you are referring to )
If I was a cynic I would suggest that there could be some foul play at high levels, god help them if they are found out :mad:
Led to believe only 1 NJ capt has had the call :*

Watchdog

30th Mar 2006, 11:20

Cunningligist...why would he bother? Is he out of work?

And to John H - Onya - I am toasting a glass of Yellowtail, as we did some years back at Don Shula's.

qf 1

30th Mar 2006, 17:29

doesn't QF 31 go to Hong Kong,not Singapore?

Watch the insults QF1, or you're off to the SinBin:suspect:

Woomera (Eastern States)

The_Cutest_of_Borg

30th Mar 2006, 19:31

The QF31 goes to Singapore. A quick check of the QF website would have told you that.

qf 1

30th Mar 2006, 19:46

bugger your right.sorry

drshmoo

30th Mar 2006, 19:59

jakethemuss - You are spot on

Does anyone else think that the J* 2nd officer conditions are insulting?

From what I hear $40K upfront to get paid only $48k, forget the stick hour vs credit hour fisting. The powers that be in J* appear to have sold out the group and in turn the long term future of our industry in this country.

If cost savings are so important to the QF group, how about the top brass managers capping bonuses or even taking a pay cut to lead by example. The people that actually do the hands on work, engineers, flight attendants and pilots have been at the forfront of the slaying of conditions. Not really fare is it.

Chilli Muscle

30th Mar 2006, 22:41

If they are short of drivers they should consider the many qualified Ex Ansett A320 pilots that the Ex Ansett Jetstar club has effectively locked out of the airline. They are scattered all over the globe and wish to come as well.

DutchRoll

30th Mar 2006, 22:48

it's very easy to understand why pilots as a group are held in such poor regard by those who can think a bit deeper than their own wallet or a little broader than their own (very) narrow perspective.
Interesting quote given that most surveys show a very high level of public respect for airline pilots. Clearly you're also implying that airline executives must have great respect for pilots too, as I don't know of anyone in that group who can think deeper than their own wallets! Could it be that you may be losing touch with reality yourself, BAL?

LookinDown

31st Mar 2006, 07:58

BBC Radio conducted a survey on the respect of the community for various professions about 3 years ago...

The survey, carried out on the Today programme's website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/) over the course of a week, attracted more than 12,000 votes. Voters were invited to list their three most and least respected professions out of a list of nearly 100 professions.

A Member of Parliament was voted as the least respected profession followed by estate agent, government minister and lawyer respectively. Journalist was the fifth least respected profession in the top ten followed by footballer.

The top ten least respected professions, listed in order, were - MP; estate agent; government minister; lawyer; journalist; footballer; advertising executive; car dealer; company director; accountant.

Though pilots weren't in the list of top ten most respected, at least they werent down near the bottom with politicians and company directors!

A US Harris Poll in 2003 showed that community opinions on the prestige for most professions has generally fallen (Thank God for FOI)...

Harris Interactive has been asking about the prestige of different professions and occupations since 1977. Over the 26 years since then there have been some quite substantial changes:

Those who see teachers as having “very great” prestige have risen 20 points from 29 percent to 49 percent.
Those who think lawyers have “very great” prestige have fallen 19 points, from 36 percent to 17 percent.
Scientists have fallen nine points from 66 percent to 57 percent.
Doctors have also fallen nine points from 61 percent to 52 percent.
Athletes have also fallen nine points from 26 percent to 17 percent. With the exception of teachers, no occupation or profession on the list has improved its ratings since 1977.

No surprises then that pilot standing may have waned a little if at all. Few professions haven't.

Gnadenburg

1st Apr 2006, 02:42

The Singaporian interviews are probably the coup de grace for Geoff Dixon. He has finally got the small chunk of Ansett he wanted; and for nothing.

The ACTU, administrators and government obstrucuted his original wants to cherry pick the Ansett business of it's A320 operation.

Piece by piece, he has bolted it on to the limited former Impulse operation. Building a low cost domestic carrier and now an international carrier.

The decision to allow J* management to put ridiculous requirments on the new operation- 2000 hours Airbus command, 330 command, Asian Airbus expeience etc- will enable J* to bring home more Airbus experience from abroad. The baulk of which will be ex-AN, a known quantity to current management, averting the risks of hobbo's from the contract world ( in their view ).

He has completed his original deal at a fraction of the original cost- a rapidly expandable operation, without limitation of Airbus expertise, bolted on or 'slaved' industrially ( so to speak ) to the downtrodden Impulse pilot group.

A master stroke. Good luck to those who would like to come home.

podbreak

1st Apr 2006, 04:06

it certainly is clever, but i wonder what he has up his sleeve to deal with the fact that there simply isn't the quantity or quality of techcrew out there who want to live in Australia for the money he's willing to give.

Elroy Jettson

1st Apr 2006, 05:22

Or, could it be that there are a heap of Tiger, valuair, silkair drivers up there already rated that they would like to chat with? Or is that too simple? :confused:

Chimbu chuckles

1st Apr 2006, 08:44

Are we forgetting the seniority clause...any DEC will face the very real prospect of being back in the RHS 2 yrs after joining...in fact it should be noted that NO DECs will be hired...some pilots will be hired as FOs BUT with a 2 yr uprade to captain clause...the date of their subsequent return to the RHS will be appear next to their names on the seniority list. By the time two yrs have passed the vast majority of current J* pilots ill have 2000hrs A320 command time...and the 787s will be just around the corner....that is to say that over the next 2 yrs MOST current J* pilots will meet the (stupid) min experience requirements...and EVERY SINGLE ONE will be senior to every pilot hired in the interim...even ones still on the 717 will have 2000 hrs A320 in a little over 2 yrs at the rate they fly.

This alone will shrink the potential numbers applying....perhaps the JPG were not so industrially naive after all.

faheel

1st Apr 2006, 08:53

chuckie if you believe that then you obviously still believe in Santa !:hmm:

Elroy Jettson

2nd Apr 2006, 11:03

Sorry CC, you guys are seriously going to stand up to your management and get those blokes demoted, as the strong unified work force that you are? :} Or are you expecting the managers to do it willingly as a good will gesture to thank you all for your hard work getting the show up and running? Remember where these guys got their big breaks in the first place? You think they give a rats about what the pilot body want? This is a chance for them to get their mates into the LHS ahead of you guys.

Dont believe me? Try taking a seniority based arguement to the industrial relations commish. (Thats if it still exists in a few years). Then you will find out the true value of any such agreement. The legal basis of the arguement they will defeat you with? Seniority is descriminatory, therefore illegal. Both sides know it, companies salivate at the thought of a challenge based on seniority. Why do you think they let you have it as a start up in the first place? Weren't you guys set up to rid the aviation world of draconian industrial work place agreements? They let you guys keep it, because they knew the moment it caused a dispute, they would wipe the floor with you in the industrial courts. They know that seniority is the security blanket that all pilots cuddle while they suck their thumb. While they have it, they are happy.
Take it away, and they start bawling. :{

But heres the clincher. The company didnt want to take seniority away from you, the nasty industrial courts did it when you guys took the poor helpless company to court over a breach of seniority. What a shame. :{ Still dont believe me? Ask the JPC legal team, if they dont have one, AIPAs.

Sorry CC, I agree with you alot on this forum. But this one, if your basis is seniority, sorry pal, the only advice I can give, "There is always time for lube!" Take your own, because management tend not to supply it. :eek:

ur2

2nd Apr 2006, 22:32

Gnads,
It's NOT 2000 hrs it is 1500 hrs, and that is only for the first 3 A330's.
All subsequent will be 1000hrs A320 for upgrade.
The idea is that the first group will assist in the training and checking on the type. And that was a requirement put on them by CASA, not by management.
If you are going to talk as if you know whats going on, get the facts first. I thought you of all people ,WG would at least do that.

Chimbu chuckles

3rd Apr 2006, 00:26

Guys I don't work at J*...I will say it again...I am not in J*....I have no agenda...simply a view based on close contacts within the system and perhaps a little distance based perspective.

The info is in their certified agreement that was posted on this forum. I asked the very same question of a mate who is a senior 717 checky..'so what happens if the company doesn't honor that agreement'.

In his view that would be the first time the company has done this...a management pilot tried once, on another issue, but the company agreed with the pilots. He would be the first to agree that if they do there would be limited options for redress.

I am as cynical as anyone here when it comes to airline management..as faheel will attest..I have seen management practices that would curl the toes of most pilots who have not been outside Oz. So have all my mates working in Jetstar.

If J* management want to ignore certified EBAs and totally screw over their workforce they will...not a lot to stop them...but why stress over stuff that has not happened...why read into every situation the very worst outcome when to date it has not been a feature of their relations with management at J*?

Whether it happens or not is not really the point of my last post...that being only how many pilots will take the chance that it WON'T happen and leave a reletively well paid command overseas?

I wouldn't.

Much milage is got from the perceived better lifestyle in Oz...that lifestyle costs money. It is my view that between the new IR laws, taxation practices and generally low pay in Oz...not to mention fun having been outlawed long ago in Oz, Australia has become a place to avoid as far as possible this side of retirement. Given the options of return to Oz and work until I'm 65 to be able to afford a mediocre retirement or stay overseas and retire earlier at a higher standard of living I know which I prefer.

Iakklat

3rd Apr 2006, 02:47

Hey UR2 how backward is Oz aviation, Jetst* and as you point out CASA. Why these ridiculous requirements in the first place to fly the A330?
Where i come from initial commands are common on the A330.
It seems that a certain "group" of management pilots had to sure up the opportunity to "bypass" again the seniority issue to fly the A330.
Again scratch a little below the surface and see the experience levels for what they really are, with the majority of your "experienced" group, from that now defunct carrier, are really in the global sense, extremely inexperienced (and unemployable :O ).
Of course they will equate hours boringly flogging up and down the east coast of OZ as high levels of experience!!
To place such silly requirements to fly what is a very simple aircraft just makes you guys look even more ridiculous than you already are !!

Lagrange

3rd Apr 2006, 03:28

Seniority and by pass will not apply in JQI

AJ and Oldmeadow got the deal they wanted. The pilot groups will be splintered. Could you imagine the JQ pilots fighting? and being lead (can't think of the correct word) by the JPC in to battle.

No lads, the AN management team lead by Gissing do not have to apply the contract. By the way, is it true none of the current JQ management went through a selection process, and is it also true that those that did all failed the test but were appointed anyhow?