TO TIP, OR NOT TO TIP...

[GULF69]

Some views please...

When visiting an FBO, or an airport where you receive handling, do you do you deem it necessary / do you feel obliged to tip ground staff, and if so, how much? Do you tip more for flights handled outside of your home country?

I know lots of pilots believe they pay for a service, and shouldn’t have to pay extra, but on the other hand when you see a ground handler going the extra mile for you without you asking him to do it – surely you should show some gratitude?

Any comments?

69

[Flintstone]

I can't believe the ground staff at any fbo get paid much more than the minimum wage so if your principal's budget will stretch to it (and whose wouldn't?) tip away.

[con-pilot]

The answer in one word is; TIP!

Especially if you transit the airport more than once. The people that work the ramp and desk remember crews that treat them with respect and tip them for a good job. It has been my experience that you will be paid back ten-fold in better and special service.

(Like jumping ahead in the line (queue) for refueling during busy times.)

[LB1985]

If you are happy with the service you receive, then feel free to tip. It's always much appreciated! However, clearing the change in your pocket (27 pence, or whatever) into the hand of the FBO employee before you leave the country isn't necessarily required... :ok:

[Capt Chambo]

We tip wherever we go, and generously by all accounts. It does seem to ensure that when we need something extra done, or something done in a hurry, it all works.

It can also work in a reverse sort of a way. Tip even if the service is poor, then next time if the service remains poor, don't tip and explain why. Seems to work as they now know the money is there but they do have to work for it.

[Chippie Chappie]

T.I.P. To Insure Promptness (one possible explination for the term).
So does your employer provide the money for the tip or are you advocating that the flight crew pay out of their own pocket?
Chips

[con-pilot]

As a general rule the company should reimburse the crew for tips, every company I have flown for did so.

When I was with the government I was not reimbursed for tips, it came out of my pocket.

[NZLeardriver]

Like jumping ahead in the line (queue) for refueling during busy times

If I was at an FBO and was skipped in the fuel line during busy times becasue someone else tipped more, that would be that last time I went to that FBO.

[CJ Driver]

I'm with NZLearDriver on this one - this kind of tipping is just bribery and corruption.

The "tip for mediocre service" strategy is particularly bizarre - when I've just paid an FBO for a thousand dollars worth of fuel, a hundred bucks for a plate of sandwiches and a bag of ice, and another hundred bucks for a ride in the van, there is no way that I'm giving them a tip for poor service.

[con-pilot]

If I was at an FBO and was skipped in the fuel line during busy times becasue someone else tipped more, that would be that last time I went to that FBO.
28th March 2006 13:07

I'm with NZLearDriver on this one - this kind of tipping is just bribery and corruption.

First off let's make on thing very clear. There is a major difference between tipping (for service AFTER the service is given) and bribing someone to to receive services ahead of others.

I have NEVER bribed anyone to receive service before others. Nor am I suggesting that anyone do so.

However, when you are a year around regular customer at a very, very popular ski resort town in Colorado and the line service personnel (not line boys) know that you are a good customer and have tipped well during the entire year they will, without you asking, sometimes put you ahead of the line (queue). I fact I have never asked to be placed ahead of anyone else.

I see no problem with that!

I have sat and watched primadonna pilots that only come into this very, very popular ski resort town once or twice a year storm around yelling and demanding that they be fueled at once because they are flying a G-V or this or that, or their boss is so and so.

Because we operated in and out of this place over 40 times a year the company gives all the employees of this FBO a Christmas bonus/tip. Of course in return we expect, and receive, special service when possible.

Again, I see no problem with that.

[Paul Wilson]

Of course To Insure Promptness is complete rubbish, as Insure is what you do when you pay someone to cover your losses in the event of an uunexpected event, whereas Ensure is what you do when you check that your front door is locked before going on holiday. If the explanation was the TLA T.I.P, it should of course be T.E.P

[NZLeardriver]

Maybe it is not intended as such, but a tip is a bribe.
Say I went to the popular ski resort, was in a bit of a hurry so not knowing what was considered a good tip I overtip, to ensure prompt service.
The bar has now been raised for everyone.

I pay for good, prompt service. I tip for above and beyond, but I do not bribe.

IMHO the fuel queue is not decided by the line personnel, it is decided by the order people are there. Air ambulance will always get my place if they are in a rush. Regular customers should not be put ahead of me becasue they tip well and regularly. That FBO will never get a chance to have me as a regular customer if that is how the fuel line is determined.

[Chippie Chappie]

Paul Wilson - Yes, very true regarding "Insure" and "Ensure" though I'd put this as possibliy down to changes in language in the past 300 years. But it got me thinking and as you offered no alternative I did some looking and found this:

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.htm

Good to hear that others get reimbursed for tipping with your companies. I guess it's more prevelant on the western side of the Atlantic as I've not heard it happened to the East.

My main problem with "standard" tipping is that employers can use tipping as an excuse to pay employees below the minimum wage. The employee should be paid a fair wage and then if a tip is received, it's a bonus (IMHO).

Cheers,
Chips

[con-pilot]

This is getting to become a well debated thread, so I would like to pose a question.

How many of you have been to a country/area where you absolutely receive no services, including fuel unless you "pre-tip" (if you get my meaning)?

Sometimes the "tip" is not money. There were a few times when I was with the government that I "tipped" the ground crew with bags of ice and a couple of cases of beer.

If you never operated in such areas you are lucky.

Of course I have operated in areas that if you tipped the wrong person you could end up in jail, or worse.:uhoh:

Anybody operate in India without "tipping"? (Sorry Bombay Duck, no insult intended.)

Mexico?

Panama?

Anywhere in Africa?

etc.

(I'm not criticizing these areas or countries, that is just the way it is in some places around the world.)

[Paul Wilson]

Con - pilot, I'm sure you've figured it out already but a great way to safegueard against the unintended trip to a small secure room with a really bad view, is to put the "tip" inside something - passport paperwork etc. and offer it for the inspection of the tippee, it can all be brushed off as forgetfulness ( "OH that's where I left that $50 bill") if you end up "tipping" the wrong person, but will dissapear amazingly fast if the "tip" is required.

[NZLeardriver]

Had many a good flight to Panama, and yes we tipped. Hector always had the fuel truck and catering waiting, and always had the flightplan wrong.
Mexico is pretty bad with the 'tipping'.
I would just hate for it to be like that in the US - if I dont tip enough I dont get what I need. When I'm flying around in a lear, we just can't compete with the bigger jets. If we were to match them with some of the tips, as a proportion of our final bill it would be huge. Never went back to First in TEB after they refused to give us a GPU - 'a real plane might need it' he said after pocketing the $10. Was it not enough?

[con-pilot]

I know what you mean Paul, I wasn't really talking about "official tipping". (Or as I call it on the expenses account 'custom fees'.) I was talking about having to 'pre-tip' to have chocks placed under the wheels.

NZLear, don't get me started on KTEB. I finally decided that we would go back to back to Atlantic Aviation just because of what you are talking about, even though other places had cheaper fuel prices.

Now, in the US I tip for the following services (I should have stated this at the start of this thread.)

Passenger baggage handling from the airplane to the Limo.

To competent line service personnel to put the covers on the engines and other bits that need covering.

Lav servicing, especially on the Falcon 50. (Nasty job.)

To the Van drivers.

And of course for any above the call of duty services. Such as getting flowers for the boss's brand new fiancé at the last minute or going to a local store to get some strange item at the last minute. Any corporate pilot that has been in this business for any time at all knows exactly what I mean.

I have always made sure that all the employees of our home base and the very popular ski resort (Okay, its Aspen) that we operate in and out of on a regular basis are given yearly bonuses.

It pays off in the long run, that was I was referring to about be placed ahead a few spots waiting for fuel.

[His dudeness]

IMO it pays off - more than tipping - just to be friendly and kind. Some pilots do behave very badly, especially when the boss is around. I´ve seen that many times and I "wondered" why these get the fuel last, the catering is incomplete etc.etc.
I try to offer a sandwich or a candy bar or something and talk to the line guys just in the same way I want to be treated. If something goes wrong, I stay friendly and explain why I need this and that NOW.
However there is a fundamental difference between the US and Europe (I guess). In Europe I´m led to believe that the wages they earn are good enough to make a living, whereas in the US some of the guys have to have 2 or 3 jobs.

[Chippie Chappie]

Exactly, His dudeness. Those employees can only get by if they're tipped. If ground staff are paid a respectable wage, prices for handling may go up a little but you know what they are and they ground crew are paid what they're worth.
Agree with you whole-heartedly about respect for the ground staff. Just the same as anyone you would do business with really. Friendly and professional. And yes, I've know a few unused plates of catering to be given to the ground staff to dispose of as they see fit ;)
Chips

[Aslak]

We always offer untouched catering plates etc. to ground crew use. They can do what ever they wish with it and generally we do have very good catering :ok:

When it comes to tipping in general, I strongly believe it has got out of hand in the States (no offence), generally speaking.

I remember the times when about 10 % tip was expected at restaurants.
Then it was 15%. Now they recommend and expect 15-20%, and that is even after they ADD 15% service charge in to the bill in some places...:}

I have no problem with giving some extra for a good service, but I do not understand why tipping should be understod as a compulsory custom, in restaurants or on the ramp.
If the employer can not pay enough salary to their employees, why they don't transfer the cost of the extra dollar or two into prices or fees?
That I would consider fair game.

Then again, just like someone already stated, there is a major difference between different countries and continents.

Cheers!

[Dumbledor]

IMO it pays off - more than tipping - just to be friendly and kind. Some pilots do behave very badly, especially when the boss is around. I´ve seen that many times and I "wondered" why these get the fuel last, the catering is incomplete etc.etc.
I try to offer a sandwich or a candy bar or something and talk to the line guys just in the same way I want to be treated. If something goes wrong, I stay friendly and explain why I need this and that NOW.


That's a refreshing thing to hear, a little down to earth common decency and respect, so great to be on the receiving end too.
Call me stupid but that's all I ask.
I have politely declined tips as there are times that I have felt 'bought' if you understand what I mean and it's not that I don't need the money but pride comes into play here too.
Give me a polite crew anyday. A little humour is a bonus too, not always possible though, I know.
D

[Jetset41]

Hi guys,

It seems to me that you are all talking about tipping for good handling.
Has any-one tipped for good service for having their airplane serviced or repaired by an engineer?

We had a customer who would always tip the ground crew for opening the door and putting luggage in car, but would never tip the engineers for fixing his plane so that he could go off around the world.

Thoughts and views please.

jetset41

[con-pilot]

JetSet41, no I have not tipped with money for scheduled maintenance on my aircraft, however, what we have done in the past is to order in pizza for the mechanics (engineers) for lunch while the work was in progress.

When we had the time after the work was completed we would invite the workers and their families out for beer and pizza and pick up the bill.

Now for unscheduled maintenance on the road we do tip. We had to have a fuel pump changed once outside in the middle of the winter. The two guys that did the work got drenched with jet-fuel and were nearly frozen by the time they got done. I gave them a hundred dollars each, they earned it.

[4HolerPoler]

Tip for good service, remembering that there's a good chance that they'll provide good service next time. Regretfully, by experience, the tip becomes a norm and it often takes a gentle rebuke and no tip (when the service wanes) to subtly remind them why we're tipping in the first place.

Recently had a minor external fire & two ramp agents furiously worked at extinguishing it, resulting in no damage. We'd previously insisted that a ramp agent from the same company, who negligently drove a vehicle into one of our aircraft, was dismissed and all it took was a simple motivation to the boss for him to approve me paying each of these gentlemen a four-figure tip for averting damage which would have been substantially more expensive. Needless to say we now receive excellent service from these two and everyone else on the ramp knows exactly where the extinguishers are. I think if (heaven forbid) we ever had another fire, there'd be a stampede.

My tuppence worth. 4HP

[Jetset41]

Con pilot,
Mines pepperoni please then.

Good for you, I like your ideals there sport.

jetset41