free seating

[xxx5572]

I have been working as a psa for easyjet for over a year now and recently as flights have become busier and the work load at the gates has been increased i find myself asking whether the whole 'FREE SEATING' idea is really any good.
Easyjet and many other low cost airlines have revolutionised the way people travel however with the innovation of this industry i feel that air travel has reached a certain slowing point in that flights are no longer the cheap seats we were all used to at the begining but indeed many are rather expensive (especially to the sunnier climates) and the whole customer service experience isnt all that great. is it not about time that easyjet made the step of introducing seating allocation, not anly would the passengers be happier but also i feel as it would benefit all the people involved in the turnaround.
Firstly im sure we have all seen it and some flights are worse than others that as soon as they see an agent at the gate shortly before boarding you find yourself surrounded by pax and a crowd gathering and staring as to every move you make all because they want to fight for the choice of seat once boarding has started even though there is a boarding system in place, also when you watch a queue at the steps of the flight im sure its because the first person has decided to insist they want one of the first seats and try to get all there hand luggage in the locker, holding everyone up, but it doesnt end there, when ive flown with easyjet ive seen people pacing up and down the aircraft just because they cant decide where to sit, either they dont want to sit near the young children or just anyone they dont particularly like the look of, surely this takes time for all to settle and making it longer until the flight is ready to depart.

If the idea is to benefit those who arrive early for check in then surely it would be much better from the customer point of view to chose their seat whilst checking in. Not only would the passengers leave the desk knowing they have the seat they want but the whole boarding experience would be much more civilsed and controlled, also from a dispatchers point of view it may make it a little easier when trying to identify a certain passenger if they knew where they were sitting on the aircraft.
Would appreciate the views of others on the subject of seating.

[FougaMagister]

Well, here at BHX we dispatch both Ryanair (no seating allocation) and bmi baby :ok: (allocated seats). Even allowing for the different aircraft size (737-800/189Y versus 737-300/148-149Y), guess what's faster? Boarding a baby flight was even faster than a Ryanair 737-200/130Y - and in winter baby use airbridges (which are supposed to slow down the boarding process due to only 1 entrance being available).

Enough said.

Cheers :cool:

[richardnei]

From my experience of at Passenger Agent in BFS we have had both free-seating airlines and allocated seating airlines, I have always found that having allocated seat usually is faster than free-seating.

Usually if a easyjet A/C comes on stand then 1 min later a bmibaby comes on stand beside each other, the bmibaby A/C will push back before the easyjet. Both aircraft would have the same capacity.

Richard

[Clipperpan]

I think that allocated seats are better for the passengers point of view as well...

[Lite]

Non-allocated seating gives passengers an incentive to ensure that they arrive at the gate ontime or early, and it is my experience having handled airlines like easyJet & Ryanair that this is generally the truth, with fewer passengers having to be looked for at the last moment. The problem is that with this system it can be incredibly hard work for the gate agent, ensuring not only that the pax that is presenting themselves to you has the correct ID but is also in the correct boarding group, because sometimes as soon as you put out a call, a surge of people come towards you, or whilst you're setting up the gate, there are people hanging around you, which is rather irritating. I think it helps if you say "Ladies & Gentleman, can I have your attention please, and please remain seated. We will shortly be inviting passengers in possession of boarding cards ..." Irather than "Ladies & Gentlemen flight XXXX is now available for boarding for passengers in possession of boarding cards ..." because as soon as people hear a flight number the rest of the announcement is drowned out or doesn't mean anything.

I agree that whilst ensuring everyone is at the gate ontime, and proceed through the gate quickly, it is not always the fastest system. Open seating encourages people to mill around in the aisles finding the perfect seat, with some actually sitting in aisle seats to try to keep the centre one free. Passengers spend longer times in the aisle deciding where to plonk themselves down, rather than knowing exactly where to go. If boarding via stairs, it also leads to people congregating around the front set of stairs, causing a blockage.

Having handled go before it became easyJet, I can honestly say it was just as easy to ensure a 25/30 minute turnaround with assigned seats as it was without. Assigned seats make the experience far more enjoyable for pax who are travelling with families or who have a particular seat they desire. Assigning seats is for some low-cost airlines an additional revenue stream as they charge a small amount for a pre-assigned seat, and no doubt there would be people willing to pay for this service. Nevertheless, I wouldn't say from a staffing point of view one is easier than the other.

[VNAVSPD]

Non-allocated seating gives passengers an incentive to ensure that they arrive at the gate ontime or early, and it is my experience having handled airlines like easyJet & Ryanair that this is generally the truth

Not sure that I totally agree with this. Yes, it is an incentive, but in my experience the stragglers that turn up at the end, aren't really the type of people that will go rushing to the gate at the thought of having a good seat.

I've boarded both seated, and non-seated flights. And my view on the subject is that allocated seating is quicker, more efficient, and much more passenger friendly. Having said this, staff have to be properly trained. There's no point allocating seats, if you've then got to do 20 seat changes at the gate because of a hash up at check-in.

At least a trial wouldn't go a miss. Easyjet own their own reservation system, so it's not going to cost them $$$$$ to have the changes implemented, even for just a trial!

[bmibaby.com]

The issue of non-assigned seating is one of the most loathed facets of the no-frills airline industry, but I think it's important that we weigh up both sides of the argument. Southwest, the self-proclaimed granddaddy of no-frills airlines, said they originally didn't allocate seats because they used to only have a few people booked on their planes so assigned seating was a bit of a joke, but as their flights got busier they realised it was actually a way to get people onto the aircraft faster, because people tended to show up to the gate ontime to ensure they got the seats they wanted. Crews on Southwest, generally known for being extroverts & more than happy to use the PA at any opportunity, tend to stand at the front of the cabin and ask passengers "to keep moving on down" the aircraft to fill up seats as soon as possible. This procedure is one of the things that has helped Southwest to remain consistently profitable for over thirty years, and to achieve their 20-minute turnarounds, another issue debated on this forum.

When bmibaby started, we mirrored a service feature incorporated by Go. Passengers found the experience much less stressful to have an allocated seat, and whilst it took slightly longer to check people in, there was no real difference in boarding time. In fact, it was just as fast because people knew exactly where they were sitting, so could head straight to their seats with the encouragement of their crews.

The issue of airbridges tends to stem from the idea that no-frills airlines want to keep costs down by not using these stands as they can be more expensive at some airports, but also to allow both sets of steps to be used. I agree that the use of an airbridge is better, not only from the point they are more comfortable, but also because it is faster to board those with special needs such as pax with babies or those with limited mobility or disabilities. The issue has to be that the airbridge is attached & secured as quickly as possible, which comes with good training, and is indeed utilised by Southwest, the steps thing being a Ryanairism, and is also used by most no-frills airlines on the continent.

Either way, there are certainly reasons for & against, and it's certainly worth bearing in mind that the no-frills airlines have done a fantastic job in revolutionising travel for us, making it just like a bus, and non-assigned seating is an aspect of this. However, I stick by the idea that pax are often willing to pay for an assigned seat, and if the price was identical between an airline with & without assigned seats, most would chose the former, it can be that important in the decision process. bmibaby, thomsonfly and the charters, have used this to their advantage by charging people to pre-allocate seats, something I could potentially see easyJet doing.

[Bumz_Rush]

How will the recently introduced on line check in work in practice with the LOCO.

The incentive to get to the airport early, get join a Q before the rest of the gang, and then get to get holdinjg pen, is now NIL.

Can I now check in on line, and just walk to the front of the Q at the pen, or what.

And lastly, as the carriers are trying to push NO hold bags, and maximise carry on, the usual contents of hold bags, ie electrical, hair driers, aerosols, etc, etc, will be subject to longer search procedures. I can no longer carry my nail clippers, or similar items in my carry on, and I certainly dont want a hold bag for one item.

What is the master plan, please.

[bruppy]

How will the recently introduced on line check in work in practice with the LOCO.

The incentive to get to the airport early, get join a Q before the rest of the gang, and then get to get holdinjg pen, is now NIL.

Can I now check in on line, and just walk to the front of the Q at the pen, or what.

And lastly, as the carriers are trying to push NO hold bags, and maximise carry on, the usual contents of hold bags, ie electrical, hair driers, aerosols, etc, etc, will be subject to longer search procedures. I can no longer carry my nail clippers, or similar items in my carry on, and I certainly dont want a hold bag for one item.

What is the master plan, please.

With Ryanair the on-line check in automatically gives you a low sequence number & therefore a better chance of being within the 1st group of pax called to the aircraft, after the families with kids of course.
INET though will cause problems at those airports with FR "bucket'n'spade" flights, because the C/In wont see the pax & lets face it security dont bother weighing baggage you stand a very good chance of getting pax at the gate with bags much heavier than the 10kg advertised, I bet not a lot of airports have scales at the gates for weighing H/Baggage & lets face it Ryanair wont pay for any!!
A bet a load of pax haven't read the T&C's so dont realise that if they turn up at the gate with a bag to big or too heavy to go in the cabin, they are to be offloaded & have no claim for refund or change of flight.
Thankfully we don't envisage many of out DUB pax doing this.
Re the nail clippers there are plans (maybe already in force) to allow certain things to be carried again in H/Baggage, the Yanks have already changed thier policies.
Anyone from LTN or LPL had problems at the gates yet? :confused: :confused:

[Lite]

Despite being a huge supporter of the low-cost airlines as well as most of their policies to operate a lean/mean company, I find the decisions that have been made regarding baggage are particularly worrying.

As more passengers take on more hand luggage, not only do we not have an opportunity to check the size & weight of the bag, if the aircraft was involved in an incident heavy bags falling from overhead lockers could cause serious injury. Simply, we cannot weigh the bag with no scales at the gate, and most gates do not have a baggage gauge to see if they would fit. Oversized bags will either make it through, or will cause delays as cabin crews try to get them checked at the gate. I'm sure I've seen at the gates at some airports in the US, facilities to check the limitations on baggage. Also, more bags means more hold ups at security as the staff have to check every few bags. This seems to all be done so that businessmen don't have to spend a few minutes waiting at the carousel in arrivals, but they'll now be waiting longer in the security lines with people taking everything on board, also potentially delaying departure.

Ryanair, like SWA, allow passengers who checkin online to be the first to board the aircraft. EasyJet I believe has a far fairer system. Passengers who arrive early to the airport to checkin will be placed in Group A/B/C depending on how early they arrive, and are then boarding by priority group. Those customers who chose to checkin online are assigned Group D. Whilst this would appear to be a defeat the benefits of checking in online, it actually means those who use online facilities can get to the airport only 20 or so minutes before departure and straight onto the aircraft, meanwhile those who have made the effort to get to the airport early are rewarded by being able to board early & get the pick of seats. I prefer the easyJet system, as not only is it fairer, but with hand luggage only pax the last to board, it makes it easier to make sure everyone is onboard ontime, giving us plenty of time to find missing pax.

Which easyJet stations actually use computers at the gate?

[xxx5572]

As much as i agree with your point of the ezy system being fairer i do however get the constant rant from pax about how they are assigned priority D, this is mainly because the perception is that many other companies if not all either allow you to choose your seat but also on free seating flights board earlier however ezy love to do things their own way therefore confusing pax more about the whole point of i net check in.

Surely with the pax printing their passes online and not having to come to check in therefore shortening queues and making c/in shorter ezy should surely show its appreciation by at least allocating a better group to board. yes they are able to arrive at the airport 20 mins before however if security is busy then they have not much chance of making the flight and im my experience the pap will have a jobsworth at security not even allowing them to try and help them make the flight.

what do you mean when ask about computers at the gate?

[TotalBeginner]

Lite, as far as I am aware, all EZY stations use a DCS both at check-in, and at the gate. This is either e-Res, or the handling agent's own system.

There is however a slight difference between stations as to how they are used. Some airports, e.g Luton, enter the sequence numbers into the system as each passenger passes through the gate, and then check their passport/ID with the screen. Other stations cross-check the passport/ID with the boarding pass, and then enter the seq No's once the bulk of passengers are on board. In my opinion, it's horses for courses. Just two ways of doing the same thing. It really depends on the layout of the airport, and the number of staff available for boarding. I'll let you guess which one is used at STN :bored: :bored:

Given the choice, I would use the first option every time. Checking each sequence number in turn means that you are always on-top of the reconciliation process, and at any one time, you know exactly who is on board, and who is missing. But if you are the only gate agent, it could take some time!

[A good headin]

Let me tell you about my little trip with Ryanair. I booked online with Ryanair and checked in online too.
Priority boarding for online check in it said on their website, great I thought. So I watlzed thru' to the gate and there are a couple of chimps doing dispatch. Gate opens, almighty rush for the tunnel, old ladies and children go flying and there I was with boarding card No 1 stuck at the back 20 deep sweaty travellers.:ugh:
20 mins late off chocks. Cabin crew crosscheck blah! Afterburner from the mid point of STN's 05, max rate climb to make up time lost time from Froggy ATC delays earlier in the day, head for TNT climbing to FL180, 20 mins in the cruise, Polish/Irish/Lativian half asleep cabin crew try to flog allsorts & still manage to collect rubbish from cabin. Pointy End says time to go back down, airframe shaking as the lift dumps try to cope with Space Shuttle 25 deg glidepath, 250kts approach. Flaps and gear at 3 miles, thump we've arrived, handbrake turn at the mid point, brakes on, everybody off, and all for £10.
Fantastic Ryanair, reminded me of my days flying F4's, bejesus I loved it!:ok: