Virgin Pacific 777 [Archive]

evyjet

23rd Mar 2006, 21:35

I was at a conference last week and heard from two independent sources, both very senior managers, one of them from a Major Airline, that it has been confirmed Virgin is definately getting 777s. One of the gentlemen said he doesn't know how they are getting there hands on them so quick, but they have.

Now we all know in Aviation that many stories from "good sources" end up being rubbish, but has anyone else got any info or goss to share regarding this?

If indeed they use 777s, who will crew them? Will the Virgin Blue guys and girls, who have shed out big$$$ (from another thread) be guaranteed a position? Will it be based on seniority? Or as with every other Virgin enterprise be a completely new startup?

Whatever happens, I'm sure all will be revealed in the very near future!!

Evyjey

evyjet

23rd Mar 2006, 22:12

Unfortunately Blue Foot, I think your right. That's the sadness of the industry we are in at present. If the operators can get away with it, the of course they will. Simple business really. They have the extremely fortunate position that Oz is a great place, and they abuse that fact. Supply and demand!!

They'll be no shortage of takers, and I'm sure a few EK drivers will be on there way home to exercise there experience.

Just be interesting, if it is true, how they will organise the selection process.

evyjet

OBNO

24th Mar 2006, 00:29

I'm sure once the JPC and co. get wind of this they'll fly it for sure! (Or maybe even for free.)

Keg

24th Mar 2006, 00:36

I wonder what DJ will offer as a package to fly a wide body. I wonder if they'll offer more than they do for a 737 command or whether they'll go the J* way and offer crap?!?!

Bugsmasha

24th Mar 2006, 01:25

BK said last week at a pilot forum that it would be 777's and Virgin Blue pilots would be flying them. He suggested between 5-8 aircraft, and which 3 US destinations would be serviced out of MEL SYD and BN. He also said they would initially need about 80 pilots. Our PWC are endeavoring to have written into the new agreement that future international ops WILL be crewed by VB pilots. No mention of paying for endorsement.
Time will tell.

dirty deeds

24th Mar 2006, 03:11

Here we go again, Bk said this and so and so said that! I would bet my right nut that not one single VB pilot will end up in these so called 777's, they will use this bait to get the PWC and the AFAP to endorse CAP 371, give the pilot group a 3% payrise, and then get the boy's from EK who will give their right nut to come back home and fly these machines.

Wake up guys and start smelling the coffee, these are diversion tactics to get the aerosexuals and command junkies to sign off on these substandard conditions and pay, just recently happened at another Australian Airline. Stand tall and unite and look long term. The next thing is Virgin Bush, routes taken off VB pilots (sounds familiar), then both groups pitched against each other for the next aircraft aquisition (sound familiar).

evyjet

24th Mar 2006, 03:36

Time will tell!

Will be interesting to find out where the 777s are going to come from!

evyjet

Allan Partridge

24th Mar 2006, 04:46

Well said dirty deeds,

The only way the vb guys will get their hands on a triple is spending a couple of hours on the pc filling in an Emirates application.

It doesn’t make any sense not to use type rated crews from other airlines who wish to return to oz, it avoids the paying for rating debate, no arguments about who gets a drive and who doesn’t after all, we know there is no seniority at VB.

At the end of the day if it is going to be a real full service airline it would be so much easier to start a new company from scratch.

The only connection required with VB is being Australian owned.

Thylacine

24th Mar 2006, 05:10

Singapore twist in the Toll Patrick take over. The Age 24 March
MARKET rumours that Singaporean Government investment company Temasek is planning to take a stake in Virgin Blue have added new intrigue to Toll Holdings' struggle for control of Patrick Corp.
With the market absorbing Toll's newly revised $5.49 billion bid for Patrick, shares in both companies gained ground, Toll closing 20¢, or 1.4 per cent, higher at $14.25 and Patrick gaining 8¢, or 1 per cent, to $8.14.
Analysts continued to give guarded support to Toll's bid, with the proviso that Toll chief Paul Little needs to put more cash into the deal to sweeten it for shareholders.
An analyst with a leading broking firm told The Age that Toll had the capacity to put in another 50¢ a share of cash because of the expected returns from asset sales that would result from commitments to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
The $86 billion investment giant Temasek came into the picture yesterday after news it had offloaded its 3 per cent Qantas stake because of the Australian Government's decision to block Singapore Airlines from the trans-Pacific market. The sales caused Qantas shares to slump from $4 to $3.65. Qantas closed yesterday at $3.71.
Market watchers suspect Temasek may partner Sir Richard Branson in the unwinding of Patrick's 62 per cent stake in Virgin Blue that will accompany a successful Toll bid.
The unwinding would raise Sir Richard's stake in Virgin Blue from 25 to 40 per cent, with Toll likely to hold on to about 10 per cent. That would leave up to half the company for Temasek, which is in turn the largest shareholder in Singapore Airlines.
The market believes a deal could then be done to wind Virgin Blue in with Singapore Airlines, giving Singapore access to the Australian domestic and Australia-US markets it has long coveted.
Singapore Airlines could conceivably work well with Sir Richard as they have been partners in Virgin Atlantic since 1999.
If this rumour were to become fact, Singapore Airlines' preemptive right to prevent the Virgin brand name to be used on international routes would no longer be an issue. Why create another new "brand" when the Virgin Blue name is established? The interlining of SQ passengers and oncarriage on VB within Oz or to the West Coast of US would achieve SQ's original aims of accessing the trans Pacific route. There's always more than one way to skin a cat but I'll let you guys debate who gets the gig to fly the 777 and perhaps that's where the 777's are coming from.

019360

24th Mar 2006, 05:42

I am a paid up member of the AFAP. I am very experienced on the 777 Pacific routes as PIC. I have been in the industry in Australia, Europe and Asia for over 30 years. Without emotion getting into it, on exactly what grounds should I refuse a contract to fly a VB (or any other name) 777 based in Australia if it was offerred to me?

I would of course not do it if there were VB 777 pilots on strike or if there was a recruiting ban or some such but other than that, exactly why would I not take the job?

propaganda

24th Mar 2006, 07:12

Before you VB lot wet your undies with excitement.....VP will rely on experienced crews recruited directly.. initially to get the ball rolling...Who knows they might use the same strategy as PB and employ just the management...and use contract crews...I didn't hear too many complaints then..;)

international hog driver

24th Mar 2006, 07:27

Before every one jumps to conclusions lets look at the facts.

Quote:
“Another key feature of the Government's new airline policy is the reform of restrictions on foreign ownership of Australian airlines. This requires amendment of the Air Navigation Act 1920 (Cth). Currently, the Act limits ownership of shares in an Australian international airline (other than Qantas) to no more than 25% for an individual foreign airline, and no more than 35% in total for all foreign airlines. The Bill proposes to remove these restrictions, replacing them with a simple requirement that no more than 49% of an Australian international airline be owned by foreign persons.

The current limit of 49% on total foreign ownership and control will be retained, as this is essential under the bilateral air services agreements with other countries. A number of foreign countries refuse to allow airlines to enter their market if they are not substantially owned and controlled by nationals of the airline's country of origin.”

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/BD/1999-2000/2000bd137.htm

So that means that Temasek & RB can have a max of 49%. If Paul Little is willing to play the game Toll could have the other 51% and remain legal.

It is a widely understood position that Toll is moving into Asia, including air freight. It is also widely believed that when AaE introduce the 733F there will be a capacity crunch….. do you think Toll is going to give up on over night express? Not likely.

As to where the 777 may come from…..

SQ has the following 777-300ER’s due for delivery this year. 34568,34569,34570/71/72 plus a lot more options.

http://www.planemad.net/airlinerlist/boeing-777.zip

So lets look at crewing, we have all seen what the JPC have done. Well the DJ boys are not that dumb IMHO. DEC’s will be filled by returnees from the sand pit who have made their $$ and want to trade up to lifestyle of home. Current DJ guys will either have to quit the 737 operation or put up and shut up.

So in reality via code shares and strategic investment the ultimate owners of SQ still get a piece of the lucrative market. Give it 5-10 years and QF will have diversified into everything except aviation and there will be the impetus to relax the foreign investment laws in a similar manner to how long it has taken for the cross media ownership laws to unravel.

We live in interesting times.:E :E :E

Warped Wings

24th Mar 2006, 08:41

Plenty of long haul heavy time (including 777) amongst existing VB crew. Why on earth would they need direct entry crews??

Dookie on Drums

24th Mar 2006, 12:36

I suppose being longhaul they would require SO's or CRZ FO's???

If so that would be good for some GA guys.

R.Cruizo

24th Mar 2006, 13:18

Relax guys,
Keep your 777's and right nuts! Most Emirates guys would'nt give sh*t about VB, J* or this industry.

I'm sure it's all yours

ys120fz

24th Mar 2006, 19:48

Can somebody clear this up for me??

Is BK the chief pilot of Virgin? Is it the same BK who was flying for a domestic carrier prior to the '89 thing? Is it the guy to whom principles meant so much? Is it the same guy who wouldn't turn his back on his 'mates'?

If it is in fact the same person, he's CP of an organization that has new starts pay for endorsements, has no seniority, pays less than 2/3 (closer to half) of what the other domestic carrier pays, and now looks like bringing in outside pilots to fly a new type.

Tell me it can't be the same person. More importantly, tell me he isn't doing it just for money. After all, he stood firm many years back saying "this is not just about money, this is about working conditions for Australian pilots for generations."

And then tell me to sit down and pi$$ myself laughing at the hypocrisy.

Transition Layer

24th Mar 2006, 23:02

I suppose being longhaul they would require SO's or CRZ FO's???

Cruise F/Os, isn't it a delightfully quaint name? :rolleyes:

Does that mean you don't have to do any work until the aircraft is sitting up at FL350? "Guys i'll be in the crew rest til ToC, give me a call when you need me."

Give me "Second Officer" anyday, especially when you have a look at what Jetstar are paying their Cruise F/Os! :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Anyway, sorry for the thread drift.

TL

EngineOut

24th Mar 2006, 23:33

TL,

Easy to be all 'high and mighty' when you sitting in a red rat doing sweet FA as cruise relief for 90K a year eh.:hmm:

019360

25th Mar 2006, 00:46

There is no greater working condition than actually having a job. Ansett pilots had great working conditions until their airline folded under them. VB have replaced those jobs and built far more. well done. Don't work for them and never will but at least the guys/girls are working and getting good experience thta can translate into even better jobs later.

Transition Layer

25th Mar 2006, 01:21

Engine Out,

I just reckon the name Cruise F/O is a stupid and misleading one. Sounds like an upgrade from an S/O til you see the JQ Intl pay packet.

By the way, the rat on the tail is white. And what does it matter what I earn? Why don't you ring Geoff and offer to do it for less.

TL

Gnadenburg

25th Mar 2006, 04:19

No mention of paying for endorsement.Time will tell.

Would you pay for your endorsement on the 777 and fly for J* rates?

Grivation

25th Mar 2006, 05:02

Worse still than paying for an endorsement -

VB's pathetic rostering system + VB's atrocious crew meals = A discontented group of jet-lagged, skinny, pilots. :E

Isn't it the same BK that's been trying to fix the rostering and crew meals for (almost) the last 6 years?

Gnadenburg

25th Mar 2006, 05:55

but at least the guys/girls are working and getting good experience thta can translate into even better jobs later.

I don't understand this logic. Be professionally lazy, accept poor conditions of service in Australia, to gain jet experience to go and live in a place such as Seoul?

And remembering, there are some 'desired' airline jobs abroad that prefer taking Australian regional pilots, as opposed to Virgin Blue pilots.

oldhasbeen

25th Mar 2006, 06:52

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on the guys over in Dubai, but why would you come home to Aus after being screwed over by the pyjamered , towelled hatted ones just to get rogered by "mates" back here? Going from 14hour sectors , eating ok food, to flying 14hr sectors eating crap ( and i use poetic licence here! ) food and pay 48 cents of every gorilla you earn to Mssrs Howard and co. I would imagine that if you'd been over there for a few years the only thing you'd come back here for would be to "holiday" on a beach somewheres.:eek:

Vorsicht

25th Mar 2006, 07:59

Money isn't everything, and it is hard to put a value on lifestyle, but I submit the following in order to give some objectivity to a comparison. At EK going on todays exchange rate, i earn about 175k (free of income tax) plus a free house, some education subsidy and a small provident fund contribution.

Lifestyle is important to me, but i dont think a Virgin job will provide it on the money they are likely to be offering. I think i will be staying in the pit for a while yet.

Kanga767

25th Mar 2006, 10:46

You could always pack your own lunch, like most workers in Australia do.

K

Johhny Utah

25th Mar 2006, 12:28

you're right Kanga - I'll just put it in the office kitchen fridge, next to all of the other lunches. When I feel hungry, I'll switch the screensaver on the -400 on, get up, go for a walk, have a bit of idle (or should that be 'idol'?) chatter, grab a coke from the vending machine, then grab my lunch from the office fridge, then go back & eat it at my 'desk' while I surf the net.

D'Oh! Doesn't quite work that way.... The workplace situation is a bit different from your average Australians. not to mention that if for some reason the lunches turn bad, what do you suggest we do in the case of food poisoning - go to the company sick bay....? :yuk:

HotDog

25th Mar 2006, 13:29

You guys are lucky not to have involved yourselves in the Qantas heavy maintenance dispute. Any intelligent comment of current private enterprise practices would have taught you some interesting expletives in reply if you had a differing opinion.:ugh:

jetblues

25th Mar 2006, 22:35

Lets get back on track. The VB management have suggested that they would "like" the current B737 drivers to be given a chance on the new B777's.
Rhetoric or truth ? Time will tell.

74world

26th Mar 2006, 06:37

G'day,
Any of you guys have any idea when will VB/PB/what ever name will be recruiting for their new company????

Can't wait to get back to Oz!!!!!!!! :D

Cheers.

Ps: you might be surprise by the number of guys (just like me) waiting to apply for the positions. :ok:

SilverSleuth

26th Mar 2006, 21:02

sorry to disappoint u "74world" but you may have go the long way and join vb first and get in line behind the 600 other drivers. As reported already in this forum the company CP and CEO has told the pilots (and yes I have heard from there own mouths) at the current EBA/work rule meetings that the VB pilots will do the flying. Endorsements are through bonds also which is good news for the team. Aircraft 4 x 777 initially with options for another 4 soon after. Of coarse there will be many here saying that this is rubbish however this is being negotiated with the current EBA, and as I said this time I think you will find the guys/girls will not vote in anything weak or based on good faith. In other words it will have to be in writing and they know that this time.

The pilots here have things on their side this time. The company wants big alterations on the current work rules and the pilots wont give it up for nothing. This includes the PB flying also. If the current work rules are changed they will be in excess of around 40 odd captains. WHY in the world would a VB FO vote this in under the current flying. It will add SEVERAL years to command ONTOP of what they are already waiting. Answer is: they would only vote it in IF there is more flying added to the network. IE: the pacific (PB) flying and the long haul.
The company knows this and hence the above talk from them.

dirty deeds

26th Mar 2006, 22:44

SilverSleuth and the Dreamers,

Please don't fall again into this long-haul, international flying trap again, they did it last time to get the EBA across the line and they are going to do it again. But this time there is so much more at stake, and these are our wotk rules and conditions for years to come. Please guys, for once start thinking long term, we are not going to get this 777 flying, thats for sure. Stop listening to the lies and pull our heads out of the sand (except you EK guys, you can pull your heads out of the sand because there will be job back in AUS shortly, but search Park Aviation and the like for the job).

Lets look at the history:

1. Starting negotiating salary for the next EBA, $158000 for a Capt. Sorry times have changed, can't offer this anymore, LIE.
2. Pacific flying, we sign off on a S@#T EBA and then told, its going to be set up as a contract company, LIE.
3. Start up pilots, we will pay for your endorsement when the airline is bedded down and up and running, LIE.
4. Accept this EBA and when we are not a start up company, we will look after you, LIE.

Guys, stop looking at this EBA/777 flying from a passionate few, start looking at it from a business poiny view like our management does, its a negotiation and if I was a manager, I would use all my tactics to get my pilots to work as hard as I possibly can for the least amount of money. VB pilots will never see the cockpit of a 777 in Australia, sorry its the truth.

Dig your heals in and unite. Its our only hope.

podbreak

26th Mar 2006, 23:11

lets just hope VB don't botch this up by introducing a new type in a rushed fasion ala ansett's jumbos, and end up using bits and pieces of proceedures as styled by contract tripla captains who don't know squirt about VBs operational culture... we don't want to see a nose-gear-up landing at sydney again do we?

If this is to be a premium service (which, to compete with qantas, its gonna have to be) lets hope the drivers get the equivalent renumeration, at least then GD will be able to compare apples and apples...

74world

26th Mar 2006, 23:44

SilverSleuth, thanks for the reply but I agree with dirty deeds, "there will be jobs in Australia shortly"......but not via Parc aviation probably Conair in NZ.

Isn't that the company VB has already been using for years to crew their aircrafts in NZ????

Any one can tell me why the VB pilots could not prevent PB and Polynesian blue start up but could this time prevent a "new company" starting up???

Cheers. :cool:

Capt Basil Brush

27th Mar 2006, 00:20

SilverSleuth and Dirty Deeds are both correct in what they say.

The company is saying what Silver says, and I think the majority of pilots think what Dirty is saying. (I hope)

I think DJ might have an uphill battle to get their new work rules (CAO 48 replacement) accross the line (which they want desperately - to OUR advantage) unless there is considerable increase in remunaration, and written guarantee of the international flying, while not falling into the J* trap.
Otherwise F/O's will be voting themselves out of a command for a few more years, due to the surplus of pilots under the new work rules.
On the other hand, some people are saying the new work rules will allow the 'surplus' DJ crew to do the PB flying, which they can't do now under CAO 48.

Interesting times ahead - in the very near future.

BB

SilverSleuth

27th Mar 2006, 00:21

"dirty deeds" I agree with you that this the work rules is the most important thing that we have done to date. I though am just not as pessimistic that you are. Everything I said earlier I believe but I again say it will only happen if it is put on paper. Yes I agree management will say anything to get the EBA/workrules passed however like you I think the pilot body is a lot more aware and suspicious this time. It will all have to be on paper this time. The long haul, the PB flying and a pay rise if these agreements are to be voted yes. If they are not then it will be voted no. Simple.

I think you should use your passion Dirty to push for what we have been talking about to be put in the agreements. Otherwise pass the word and tell everyone to vote no. Be proactive my firend. Nothing will get done by just saying they did this, they did that. They may have but would you suggest be done then? Sit back and say Im not playing then!

"74world" I can see you and a lot of people are hoping for this so you may all get home however it will only happen if its not put in our agreements.
I can only say what the CP/CEO tell us. If it does happen only time will tell.
I personally dont think you will be flying for VP.

evyjet

27th Mar 2006, 01:39

Looking at this from the companies point of view:

If they use VB pilots, it will cause a load of unnecessary problems for them. They will have to organise who is going to fill the seats, whether on straight seniority, or experience in Long Haul and/or 777 flying.

Without knowing the Senior VB pilots experience, a straight seniority may see the new 777s flying to the states with very little relevant experience in the front. I know there are some very experience international Pilots in VB, but I'm generalising here. So if they went on experience within the group, out of seniority, this will upset the Pilots more senior. Anyway you look at this, there will be unhappy VB Pilots, lower morale etc.

If VB "outsource", it will make the company far less of an "industrial" playground, making life a lot easier, and profitable.

Sure they will still have upset VB Pilots, and understandably so. However, they can still give the option of applying if they wish. If they have the required experience, then they can join VP. I don't think anyone would have a problem with those "qualified" Pilots (and I'm refering more to DEC at start up) having preference. Behind these guys though will be many experienced 777 Pilots wanting to come home, even with the new sub standard wage and tax system!

I would be very suprised if VB put down on paper that the International flying will only be flown by VB pilots.

evyjet

Dubya

27th Mar 2006, 02:15

What makes you think that there would be a stampede of pilots wanting to go International?
There are many guys on line who are happy doing just what they are doing right now. I couldn't see there being a problem finding enough guys to do it, but there won't be a stampede.

I'm stuffed if I want to fill'er-up with 200+ tonnes of fuel, only to sit there for 14 or so hours.. geez... flying MEL - CNS is too bloody far in one straight line. and the money... who gives a toss... job satisfaction is the name of the game..

and yes, I do fly for them.

Track Direct

27th Mar 2006, 02:33

Dirty deeds you're on the money.....VB pilots won't get a look in on the 777 "rumour".....talk about rose coloured glasses:yuk:

PammyAnderson

27th Mar 2006, 02:59

I hope the Guys and girls at Dj do get the long Haul. They certainly deserve it. From what I hear from Family there it looks promising. But as said earlier people, get it in writing. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! before voting in the EBA/rules.
In terms of experience, thats a no brainer too. More than enough experience in every level needed. Senior FOs there have now more than 5 years in right seat and the CAptains are mostly ex ansett, dispute long haul experienced etc guys, so no worries there either.
The people here saying you wont get it etc are just people who are hoping you dont. The ones who missed out.
Good luck to you all. You have something the company wants this time in terms of work rules. Use it to your advantage. !!

oldhasbeen

27th Mar 2006, 10:24

Beware the taxman!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh:

2dotsright

28th Mar 2006, 07:07

oldhasbeen, (and a few other VB pilots) you seem a bit worried about pilots coming back from the sandpit and crewing the 777, if it eventuates. Well, I gotta tell you mate, it's all true. I know AT LEAST 18 experienced 777 Capts (not just Aussies, but others who have the right to immigrate, and would tomorrow) just waiting to haul ass back to Oz. Forget the tax and all the rest of the crap, they are just waitin to go home, and I have heard that they have a rep talkin to the VB management about a deal. Wish they would give me the job of recruiting on a commission basis, I'd be rich...... Don't ya just love it Aaaaaahhhhh!!!!

Habster

28th Mar 2006, 08:57

Don't be surprised when they choose Airbus.
First things first, Virgin will fly Oz - Asia first.
Then comes the USA.

HGW

28th Mar 2006, 09:33

Habster, I agree with the Airbus rather than Boeing from the info I am hearing. Where in Asia first?

dirty deeds

28th Mar 2006, 16:57

Airbus or Boeing, it's not going to matter, it's just an aeroplane! And 2dotsright, I think someone should call Localiser on you, I do care who gets this flying and I hope it's VB pilots, I am just being realistic about the whole situation, they told us last EBA, "you will get the Pacific flying", and guess what, we didn't, and guess what, we are not going to get it this time either.

Don't fall into the trap and vote in CRAP 371, VB pilots will never see the cockpit of a 777 or A340, bet my wonderful pay on it.......! Ha Ha. EK boys, the time is close for you, watch the adverts!

Unite, stand tall and maintain the rage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

distracted cockroach

28th Mar 2006, 21:48

To those who think guys wouldn't leave EK for "crap conditions" in Aussie, you are wrong. The guys who will turn up are not the guys who went to EK recently and haven't yet made their fortunes, but the EK old-timers who have had enough of living overseas as expats, and will return to OZ for the lifestyle as they have learned that lifestyle is the only thing that counts.

I know many guys in EK who would happily return downunder to fly a less glam aircraft for less money and poorer conditions, just to get back home.
Direct entry commands on aircraft they already have type ratings on are what would tip the balance for them.

Rich-Fine-Green

28th Mar 2006, 22:30

Habster:
My money is on USA routes before Asia.

QF makes huge $$ on the pacific routes. Most flights are high l/f.

BundyBlack

28th Mar 2006, 22:38

The question was posed near the beginning of this thread, and I am still unsure of the answer, which was along the lines of:
If VB pilots fly the wide-body international routes, how can VB pay them any more than they get now due to J* widebody pay being close to what a VB NG pilot already receives?
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but is it likely VB will pay a small premium to it's existing pilots (and pay for their ratings + bond period) just to give them a chance to fly the new operation?
The other way might be a new company, but haven't heard a whisper about that. VB management are very good at keeping secrets, so perhaps hearing nothing is a sign...
There is always beer.

Howard Hughes

29th Mar 2006, 05:11

Habster:
My money is on USA routes before Asia.
QF makes huge $$ on the pacific routes. Most flights are high l/f.

I think you are a fine judge of the market RFG, why compete with loads of other carriers, when you can go up against a handful with great load factors. I would suspect SYD-LAX and MEL-LAX to be the first routes offered!:ok:

Keg

29th Mar 2006, 06:22

And if they get longer ranging 777s then they could even consider other options than LAX and cut QF off at the knees. QF has talked for many years about direct DFW but don't have an aircraft with the legs. A few 777-200LRs to DJ and all of a sudden, QF may be well behind the 8 ball for services to DFW, ORD and JFK!

It may actually prompt QF management to get off their back sides and do some expansion beyond LHR, FRA and LAX! :rolleyes:

HGW

29th Mar 2006, 07:33

My info says the ports flown to will be all VS ports such as LAX, SFO, ORD, SHA and NRT to utilise the incumbent infrastructure. The VS offices and management are all in place.
A nice link up to the VS network and SFO to the Virgin America network.

Ex QF

29th Mar 2006, 20:45

Or Keg, QF could fight back like they use to !!!!

A simple question?
Why does QF stop-over in SIN, BKK & HKG on flights to Europe?
Because they do not have the range to fly directly to Europe, correct?

Why does QF not fly direct to Chicago, Orlando & Dallas?
Because they do not have the range to fly directly to these ports, correct?

So surely the bean counters and operations people have looked at stop-overs, correct?
Simple answer is, they do and it's LAX but.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought about NAN as the stop-over?

Whilst Chicago & Orlando may be a bit too far range wise, Dallas would be an easy fit - I'd rather a 1 hour fuel stop in NAN and then flying straight into Dallas anytime over the delays in LAX. And surely it could be as simple as say, 3 less flights a week into LAX?
Air Pacific come on board with flights ex BNE that connect with the NAN flights - surely that's not hard.

It's just a thought and raised because of the comments above about Virgin beating QF to some other ports.

Bet some old timers would love a few nights at the old Mocambo again?
Gee it even brings back memories for us old and Ex staff who had great weekends in NAN - remember QF 3 Friday night at 19:00 - be in the pool at midnight in NAN - back on QF 4 at about 5:00am on Monday - they were the days.

But then again, maybe the bean counters have it under control, let Air New Zealand do some of the flying?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Air-NZ-close-to-merger-with-Qantas/2006/03/30/1143441242187.html

MarkD

30th Mar 2006, 02:20

Airbus? Is the Bearded One offloading his 343s again, as with Virgin Nigeria?

plainmaker

30th Mar 2006, 23:35

No

But there are a bucket load of A340s coming off the line soon that were originally destined for the Middle east, and are now not being taken up.

Seems that EK do not want the existing version as the enhanced HGWs are due in about 24 months, and EK have indicated that they will defer delivery until the improved one's are available.

First one could be available in under 4 months, with delivery of one every six weeks to follow.

I reckon SRB has got a good deal on the surplus builds, and they will tide VB over until they can secure production slots for the T7's thet desperately want.

Plainmaker

Taildragger67

31st Mar 2006, 10:57

Ex QF, I'd reckon ex-Nadi you could get JFK direct - so none of that clearing-customs-in-the-first-port caper before NY.

That is said, of course, in ignorance of any payload restrictions ex-Nadi due wx or runway etc. so I'm preparing my flame-proof suit here.

Keg,

You're nothing if not an optimist, mate. And far too logical.

Going Boeing

31st Mar 2006, 11:19

Plainmaker

An EK B777 captain told me that they were so happy with the performance of the B777-300ER that Emirates were considering disposing of all other types and consolidating their fleet down to two types - A380's and B777's (various versions). Your post contradicts what this guy was saying. Is your source recent and accurate?

Dale Hardale

31st Mar 2006, 12:10

Inside word on Emirates fleet planning is that the A345's WILL go. The problem is that with all this expansion, EK needs every hull they can lay their hands on. So they will be here for a while.

The A343's are here to stay as they have proven extremely cheap to operate plus they cost next to nothing to buy. They are looking for more A343's. Ex Virgin ?

The big regret apparently with the A330 is that they didn't get A333's. The center tank on the A332 is never used. Don't be surprised to see them replaced by the T7.

Why wouldn't Branson take some of the 600's that EK is now thinking of "deferring" ? Good way to start his OZ operation.

plainmaker

31st Mar 2006, 12:49

Information is very recent (as in the last three weeks) and from the horse's (manufacturer's) mouth.

Don't deny that EK is looking at not taking up the 340's they are commited to, but they sought deferral from Airbus to 'wait' for the 340E as part of the sweetner to not lose deposits. That excuse may seem a bit lame, but I am told that the spare hulls coming through are being offered at very attractive finance arrangements if the new owners/operators agree to sign quickly so that EK doesn't do it's dough.

There has been a lot of shuffling to re-allocate the hulls (specific build numbers I do not have in front of me), but given that part of one of our businesses is driven by operators taking up airframes, and the requests we have had to re-prioritise product, to me indicates some very fluid activity that confirm the VB 340 rumour.

I cannot disagree with the EK captain's comment. The 777 is liked by virtually every operator as it's economics are brilliant. But from a fleet perspective, given EK's expansion plans, their establishment in the A330 and their route network, I do not see EK commiting to a 777/380 demographic in the medium term. The 330/340 mix works for them while they are expanding and cannot get enough 777 hulls.

The only issue remains about VB eventually getting 777's. Seems the economics of the 340's now on offer more than make up for the premium that would need to be paid to get 777's in a reasonable time - SQ are not about to gift half a dozen or so, nor is any-one else going to release production slots.

Plainmaker

MarkD

31st Mar 2006, 17:20

If 345s would do AC will have two spare once their 777s arrive.

Snowballs

2nd Apr 2006, 11:35

All does not appear well at Airbus at the moment. Yet another happy customer ? :suspect:

Emirates Airlines delays $4.2 billion Airbus deal
MENAFN - 02/04/2006

(MENAFN) Emirates Airlines confirmed that it will delay its $4.2 billion Airbus A340-600 order to give the European manufacturer time to come up with an enhanced version of the aircraft, and said the new development would not hinder the carrier's ambitious growth plans, Khaleej Times reported.

The divisional vice-president for Emirates Corporate Communications, said that the UAE national carrier has already placed orders worth $30 billion for new aircraft, including 21 Boeing 777s and 45 A 380 super jumbos to sustain its rapid pace of growth and fleet expansion.

The official said that the Dubai-based carrier is only interested in an enhanced version of the plane, and added that the company has been in contact with the Airbus manufacturer with this request and we are looking to defer the delivery of these orders until the manufacturer comes back with clearer plans about an enhanced version of the aircraft.

zklowrider

2nd Apr 2006, 13:32

Time will tell!

Will be interesting to find out where the 777s are going to come from!

evyjet

This is simple to answer....from the Boeing Factory, and from a meeting I attended today, it would appear that these aircraft were originally intended for Emirates but as there seems to be an exodus of crew from the sandpit and no one to replace them, EK are unable to take delivery of their new machines and are opting to park them up by the perimeter fence at Boeing. These machines apparently are now "earmarked for the Antipodes!" and EK have options on the production line for when and if they can take delivery and actually find some crew to fly them home to Dubai. Read into that what you will...me, well, my CV is already up to date! :ok:

sandpit

3rd Apr 2006, 00:33

Can someone in the know tell us what the liklihood of a new airline (which is what SRB has said several times will operate the Pacific) with a new type to the country (B777) has of getting 180 minute ETOPS approval on start up from CASA?

I would have thought nil. Am I missing something? Please enlighten me!!

If thats the case A340-600's or B747-400's would have to be favourites surely.

Skystar320

3rd Apr 2006, 01:04

UA have still got 777's parked up??????

DJ747

3rd Apr 2006, 21:41

Nothing is going to happen in a real hurry, sorry to all those with a bucket and spade or face mask desperate to get home.

Check back in 6 months to see what the real news will be, until then it's all speculation.

B772

12th Apr 2006, 04:55

This is the latest 'golf' talk at an undisclosed course.

The Asian destination is HKG.

The initial destination in the USA is LAX.

The initial aircraft are A340-500's due to availability/low cost/payload range.
Assistance with the A345 introduction to by provided by Virgin Atlantic.

The bearded one has some concerns with a twin trans atlantic and trans pacific.

sinala1

12th Apr 2006, 04:57

The Asian destination is HKG

This would make sense with the BNE basing that has been rumoured over a SYD basing - not competing with VS on BNE-HKG whereas they would be on SYD-HKG

74world

12th Apr 2006, 05:59

G'day,

Most probably a new company will be started, if not PB should pick up the extra routes, any of you guys have heard when they should advertise for crews???
B772, I agree with you 100% about what you said, :ok:

Taildragger67

12th Apr 2006, 14:02

This is the latest 'golf' talk at an undisclosed course.
The Asian destination is HKG.
The initial destination in the USA is LAX.
The initial aircraft are A340-500's due to availability/low cost/payload range.
Assistance with the A345 introduction to by provided by Virgin Atlantic.
The bearded one has some concerns with a twin trans atlantic and trans pacific.

... and with the rumours on another thread about SQ looking to flick their A345s, it all ties together quite nicely...