Norman Kember Freed

[c-bert]

Looks like the boys in black have done a good job, well done lads!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4836218.stm
One British and two Canadian peace activists held hostage in Iraq for almost four months have been freed in an operation by multinational forces.
Norman Kember, 74, of north-west London, James Loney, 41, and Harmeet Singh Sooden, 32, were three of four men seized in Baghdad in November.
Mr Kember is said to be in a "reasonable condition" while the two Canadians were taken to hospital.
The body of murdered US citizen Tom Fox was found in Baghdad two weeks ago.
Ordeal ended
Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said he had spoken to Mr Kember's wife Pat and that she was "absolutely delighted, elated with this news".
"I'm delighted that now we have a happy ending to this terrible ordeal for Norman Kember, for his family, for the Canadian hostages and for their families as well," he said.
Prime Minister Tony Blair said he was delighted by the news, and particularly pleased for the freed men and their families.
He also congratulated everyone involved in the rescue operation. Mr Straw said British forces had taken part.
The foreign secretary said the rescue followed "weeks and weeks of very careful work by military and coalition personnel in Iraq and many civilians as well".
He added: "There's one last very sad point, which is that there were four hostages captured originally, including one, an American, Mr Fox, and it's a matter of great sorrow to everybody that he was killed a little while ago."
The 54-year-old was found shot dead on 9 March in the Mansour district of the Iraqi capital.
Threats
The men were carrying out work in Iraq as part of peace group Christian Peacemaker Teams.
They were abducted on 26 November by a previously unknown group calling itself the Swords of Truth Brigade.
The group had issued threats to kill the men if the US and Iraqi authorities did not meet their demand of releasing all Iraqi prisoners.
Muslim anti-war campaigners in the UK sent Iraqi-born Anas Altrikiti to Iraq to plead for the release of Mr Kember and the other hostages.
Ihtisham Hibatullah, a spokesman for Mr Tikriti at the Muslim Association of Britain, said on Thursday they were "very relieved" that Mr Kember and his colleagues were alive, and that it was fantastic news for their families.

[mutleyfour]

How ironic though, saved by the very personnel he went to to oust!

I for one hope his wife gives him a good firm kick up the A**e.

[Navaleye]

What? The Americans are involved? And they are still alive? Surely not :suspect:

[c-bert]

Interestingly no mention of the captors. Wonder if any of them are still around? Oh, the Americans were invloved....answered my own question :E

[Training Risky]

Maybe the senile old liberal will sue the British Govt for using violence against ethnic Iraqis/foreign fighters during his rescue...

[Wyler]

I hope they give the stupid olf f*rt the bill for time and resources. Then leave him to find his own way home.
More likely we will have to put up with him on Breakfast tele being drooled over by C list celeb presenters. Then there will be the book..........:{

[Excommunicator]

....still his parking ticket at LHR will probably have clocked up a bit by now.

[airborne_artist]

Bet he'll get a right :mad: llocking from his Mrs though - I wonder how much washing up he'll have to do? :E

[mlc]

None of his friends/colleagues interviewed this morning would utter a word of thanks to his rescuers. "Our prayers were answered and he was freed".

Wake up, he wasn't 'freed' he was RESCUED. Ungrateful lot!!

[SASless]

TR,

Press conference by the Military a few minutes reported the information came from two detainees. Operation was conducted. No hostage takers or guards seen at the location. Thus no violence used. Hostages were all together, bound, but supposedly unguarded at time of the raid. Operations continue as the Military uses information surfaced at the site.

[airborne_artist]

None of his friends/colleagues interviewed this morning would utter a word of thanks to his rescuers.

Put him back til they say thank you :E

[SASless]

A college professor was teaching his daily class and took the opportunity to challenge the existence of "God" to his students. He looked upwards and said loudly...."God, if you exist....hit me squarely on the nose!" When nothing happened....he took a seat and said...."God, I give you ten minutes to hit me on the nose!"

For almost ten minutes nothing happened but the ticking of the classroom clock. As the second hand made it's final circuit to the appointed ten minute deadline, a fellow from the back row of the classroom stood up and walked to the Professor.

Upon reaching the Professor, he unleashed a tremendous right hook which landed squarely upon the Professor's nose, breaking the nose, splattering blood all over the chalk board, and knocked the Professor to the floor.

The Professor got up...holding his broken bleeding nose and asked "Why did you do that?"

The fellow said, "I am a former US Navy SEAL...God was busy so he sent me instead!"

[Melchett01]

Obviously a good thing that he has been rescued, but maybe next time he'll think twice before wandering round a war zone with nothing but his flip flops and bag of twiglets.

And I don't know why his fellow twiglet munchers were so surprised when he went missing - it's like watching one person stick his head into a lion's mouth and getting it chewed off and then being surprised when it decides it likes the taste of twiglets and does the same thing to you.:\

[foldingwings]

So! It now seems that Mr Kember, bless him, had declared that, if they were kidnapped, they did not want to be rescued by Armed Troops. Who then? The Salvation Army? Don't make me laugh.

Now that they are free, then, I anticipate them refusing seats on a military flight out of the War Zone! Don't hold your breath. The ungrateful b:mad:ards should be hung out the back door of a C130 at the Top of Climb and the rope cut!

[rats404]

Did anyone in the UK see the wizened old cow and "colleague" of 'Stormin' Norman Kember being interviewed on GMTV (I know, I know) proclaiming that she was going back to Iraq and did not want any military assistance if captured?

These t:mad: ssers make me seeth... (off for a cup of weak camomile tea, in the drawing room)....now where's my Meerschaum and smoking jacket?

Rats404

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I didn't see any of the Bible bashers mention that they didn't want rescuing in their hostage videos.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Give him one week to 'come to his senses' and publicly thank the British forces who got him out of his self-generated dwang. If it is not forthcoming, launch another SF op to insert him straight back into Sadr City with some 'stars and stripes' y-fronts, 'Danish' cartoons taped to his back, a bottle of whisky and a bacon butty. Good luck chap, and well done on your last mission!:ok:

[Rainboe]

I must admit I had severe misgivings when I heard this idiot had survived. Now my newspapers are going to be filled with this fool's musings on how it is all our fault in the first place 'and give peace a chance!'. I'm not saying he shouldn't have survived, just there are 2300 American and over 100 Brit soldiers (and other nationalities_ who I would rather seen survive before someone who so pointlessly and intentionally sticks his head into a crocodiles' mouth. The man is an idiot- he is now going to be given a soapbox to publicly preach to us.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Checking out all the comments that have come from friends and familly of the rescued hostages (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4836614.stm) there are several references to Kember being "released" or "set free", but not one to his "rescue". Not one thank you to the men that risked their lives to get him out - how disgustingly ungrateful.

The single reference to the military operation comes from a former Guantanamo inmate, who crpytically states that he "hopes no one was hurt" during it. I wonder whether he's concerned for the hostage takers, ordinary Iraqi civis or the Coalition troops?

[Fg Off Max Stout]

I do wonder if Mr K took full advantage of his unique opportunity to advise his warlord captors to 'give peace a chance'. I suspect not. I strongly suspect he just kept his head down, praised his captors for their noble battle against the evil imperialists and quietly prayed for the boys in black to come and do their thing.

A public thank you to his rescuers and a nod to his own naivety and foolhardiness would be the only thing that might salvage a bit of sympathy or respect for him. If he returns and gets himself in the same mess again, I would suggest that he be allowed to sort out the problem non-militarily, by himself.


Apart from Tony B's congratulations, the only references to the armed forces are as follows:

I'm slightly disturbed to hear the news that they were freed in a military operation. I know that the men very much would not have wanted anyone to lose their lives in this operation. CHRIS COLE, DIRECTOR OF FELLOWSHIP OF RECONCILIATION

I am a little concerned about the military operation and hope that nobody was hurt during that.MOAZZAM BEGG, FORMER GUANTANAMO BAY DETAINEE

Make of that what you will. Personally, if I was being held hostage awaiting execution and the number of people on the list had recently dropped by one, I wouldn't shed to many tears if the rescuers double-tapped each of the b@stards responsible. Maybe that would give peace more of a chance.

[airborne_artist]

Can't exactly see the boys from H getting/accepting an invite to no.10 and being poured drinks by the PM as Maggie did after Princes Gate.

[Wyler]

ITV news this lunchtime. Had a couple of his bible thumping mates on who were both very dismissive of the military. One said of the danger involved in the rescue 'So what, it's their job'. Luckily the phone in and e-mails were nearly all incredibly anti this silly little man and his crusade. That at least took the smiles off their faces.:mad: :mad: :mad:

Like I have said before, wait for the round of TV shows, the book and quite possibly the open top bus procession.:*

[Dogfish]

I am slightly confused here, no change there. The star'n'stripes boys said they were acting on inteligence gained the night before the rescue but Jack 'the lad' Straw said the operation had been ongoing for weeks. Who is telling the truth?:confused: Despite all that I am glad to see the old duffer is free, just hope he takes the hint and keeps his nose out of other peoples business from now on.

[MarkD]

it's actually possible to reconcile this - if there was a "let's game out a scenario for when we get the int" and "well we got the int a couple of hours before and executed game plan x"

There were Canadians involved apparently, some kerfuffle about that here (was it RCMP and/or JTF2, what were they doing in iraq etc.etc.etc.) so they hardly showed up on 3hrs notice.

[Lafyar Cokov]

For Ops like this it is customary to ensure that members of each nation being rescued are on the rescuing team - therefore the surviving hostages can each be treated and de-briefed by there own side without some diplomatic hand-over fiasco - which has been quite embarrasing on previous occasions. I would have thought that a small team of Canadian SF would have been lodging with the lead rescuing force looking for these guys until either they were rescued or bodies were found. Not sure, but just an outside guess.

[ratty1]

I suppose he will be wanting a lift home in one HMG's finest Aircraft?

[SPIT]

For all the gratitude for the military rescuers had to take that was shown by his friends they should have LEFT THE SILLY OL;D F**T where he was and see how his Bible bashing friends reacted then .:mad: :mad: .

[SASless]

Why not....they're going that way anyhow are they not? The ride would be all part of the service, along with the medical treatment, the rescue, the new clothes, the food and accomodation....why not a ride home too?

[Wiley]

I’m surprised no one has asked the obvious question: what if one or more SAS troopers of American SF soldiers had been killed rescuing these individuals? (I hesitate to label them the way I’d like to.)

I really think any such people planning to go to Iraq should be left in absolutely no doubt as to their status should they be taken hostage. It should be clearly pointed out that no effort will be spent and no risk of life taken in attempting a rescue. End of story.

I was intrigued at the way CNN truncated the sound bite of the bearded … person (see above) from Canada who was the ‘co-ordinator’ of the peace group. Early broadcasts included (given the way and by whom his people had been rescued) his totally inappropriate comments about the war; in later transmissions, these comments were dropped.

[airborne_artist]

Article in the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=5ZOILJAJWZGS5QFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/03/25/wkemb25.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/25/ixportaltop.html) with more detail - the Canadian hostages refused to co-operate in a de-brief.

[Anton Meyer]

Even though he is flying back civ/con air today, he will have been evacuated using the RAF aeromed system and there will probably be a MO or RMN around somewhere..

[Big Unit Specialist]

Heartened to see Sky ripping into Norm's supporters this morning - don't fancy his chances in front of the press when he returns to Pinner later today....:} Hostile Press? I think this will be entertainment of the most delicious kind:)

[passpartout]

Somehow, I don't think they would have been troubled too much by any UK or US deaths during the rescue.

It would, however, have been a delicious irony if 20 Iraqi captors had been killed during a rescue mission.

Imagine the guilt those 3 pillocks would have had to live with for the rest of their days - being directly responsible for the deaths of 20 people...

[SASless]

Wiley,

Why does that surprise you at all about CNN? They make the Beeb's look like wildeyed conservatives!

Flip flop channels between FOX and CNN....if you wish to see a contrast. Ignore the Factor and those segments and just compare the "news" segments.

[Danny_Boy]

I see Gen Sir Mike Jackson has gone on record (C4 News) to regisister his annoyance at the lack of gratitude. Good to see a 4* saying what the troops under him are thinking. Although if I were a cynic I would mention that he is retiring soon and has nothing to lose by raising his head above the parapet.

[NURSE]

Yes Jackson wasn't a happy camper. And Ignoring FCO advice and putting servicemaes lives on the line is absoute stupidity. I wonder will the Press force him to pubically thank th forces involved and apologise for the risks he made them take.

[effortless]

Even though he is flying back civ/con air today, he will have been evacuated using the RAF aeromed system and there will probably be a MO or RMN around somewhere..

Registered Mental Nurse perhaps? Oooh I do hope so.:E

[MostlyModerate]

And look who has appeared all over the tv screens as spokesman.....

None other than Monsignor Bruce Kent.

Says it all.

[monkeytamer]

It seems like Mr Kember is now very grateful to those involved. (From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4844800.stm) website today).

Quote:
However, Christian Peacemaker Teams, the group all three men were campaigning for, insisted it had thanked the soldiers and Mrs Kember said she was "very grateful".
Speaking at a VIP lounge at Heathrow in the company of his wife, Mr Kember said: "I do not believe that a lasting peace is achieved by armed force, but I pay tribute to their courage and thank those who played a part in my rescue."


MT

[Mike Oxbigg]

I think to$$ers like this who go to Iraq when they don't have to should sign a release form waiving their right to be rescued if captured. It galls me to think of decent blokes putting their lives on the line for these :mad: :mad: :mad: !!

[RileyDove]

Of course if we hadn't invaded in the first place Kember and his mates could have been having tea and biscuits with Saddam at one of his palaces and we wouldn't have needed to have rescued him

[mutleyfour]

Of course if we hadn't invaded in the first place Kember and his mates could have been having tea and biscuits with Saddam at one of his palaces and we wouldn't have needed to have rescued him

But we would have had to rescue him from Syria or maybe Iran instead :)

[Wiley]

No one has picked up on the last paragraph of the ‘Telegraph’ article (see airborne artist’s link to it on p2). A deal had been struck with a man detained the previous night who was one of the leaders of the kidnappers. He was allowed a telephone call to warn his henchmen to leave the kidnap house. When the troops moved in and found the prisoners alive, they also let him go as promised.So let me see if I have this right. Coalition forces have a man in custody who is ‘one of the leaders’ of a criminal gang that they know has murdered one of its captives. They allow him to ring his gang to allow them to get away before the assault by SF troops.

We have indeed moved into a strange dimension in ‘law enforcement’.

Why does my bull**** meter detect a strong whiff of domestic political interference here at very high, even the highest levels, to ensure that no one on either side got hurt in this rescue so as to appease these Christian peace activists?

Thank God or Allah or whomever you like that there wasn’t one – just one – individual in that criminal gang who wasn’t a closet zealot who didn’t immediately warn his friends of similar mind in time for them to prepare a reception party hell bent on taking as many infidels with them before the survivors of the rescue team sent them all to Paradise.

Of course I don't know all the facts, but some might accuse the commander who made the decision to allow that call to be made to be playing loose with the lives of his men.

[The Swinging Monkey]

I was so bl00dy incensed yesterday to see that woman on TV telling the world that the military should not have been involved in freeing Kember. What a bunch of ungrateful fools.

I think that we should have tied a label on the guy and sent the old sod back! Maybe parachute him in with a label saying 'we don't want him back, you can keep him! if nothing else, it might send a message to the kidnappers maybe?? I hope the others are a little more grateful.

Well done to the boys from H and the others involved, a first class job.

Kind regards
TSM

[X ONE]

Our SAS boys should have just got the canadians out and left the old fool who "didn't want to be rescued in a military op if he should be held captive" behind!! or maybe they would have if they had known his views:confused: !!

[cazatou]

Perhaps HMG should announce immediately that in future the wishes of such "Peace Campaigners" will be respected and that NO attempts will be made to rescue them against their wishes -WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES!!

[buoy15]

The Foreign Office has a website of places you might not wish to visit
If you are intelligent, you may take their advice and not go there
Sadly, however, we have theses ares&les who do
Norman Kermber is a very lucky man -thanks to the expertise and professionlism of the SAS who have salvaged his, and, many other situations , he was rerscued!
I have had the privilege and pleasure to work with the SAS and SBS on many ocassions, and I am glad they are in my gang!

[C130 Techie]

So am I. It's just annoys me that they have to risk their lives for idiots!

[VFE]

What I wanna know is: why is there a rozzer stood outside Kember's house? If the press are getting too heavy then he should employ security guards - not sponge off my taxes.

That rozzer could be out catching potential criminals.

VFE.

[airborne_artist]

Interesting to compare Kember with John Hudspith, held hostage in Nigeria, who said when freed ""My thanks go to all those responsible for securing my release and all those that played a part, however small."

From BBCi (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4853032.stm)

[opso]

why is there a rozzer stood outside Kember's house?Maybe the authorities are frightened that we'll kidnap the ungrateful swine and send him back!
Interesting that so many people (the media included) think that he was eventually grateful towards the military that rescused him. I understand that he's a press officer for this bunch well-intentioned, but utterly naive fools and it showed in his full statement. Unsurprisingly, the media quoted a small part, (supposedly pointing out his particular thanks to the military) and so people have leapt upon it happily. When you look at the preceding sentence, see if you think the meaning is the same:
Another group that I hope you do not forget are the relatives of British soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq.
I do not believe that a lasting peace is achieved by armed force, but I pay tribute to their courage and thank those who played a part in my release. Now, I agree with his sentiments about the families of those lost or wounded in this war, but the nearest he actually gets to thanking the military for his rescue is the little bit underlined. In fact, grammatically, he is thanking those relatives that were involved in his release, but we can give him benefit of the doubt here if you like and say he meant those people involved in his release. One could ask who else was involved other than the militaries (of various countries) and assume that he is thanking them too, but you just need to read on in his statement and see that he names many other groups:...I thank all who supported Pat...
...the Embassy staff who worked so diligently for our release.
...the staff in Britain...
...those from many faith communities who appealed for my release and held prayers and vigils in my name.
...the media...It's simply the military he couldn't expressly bring himself to thank openly. If he feels he needs protection, he should pay for it himself and not be treated as some VIP at taxpayer expense.

[B Sousa]

From reading all the posts on this issue, I think the general consensus is that at least WE all thank those in uniform for doing a great job and rescuing these usless lives. Then going on to do other work without us even knowing who they were.
Heres hoping they can at least get a litttle decoration for their heroism. Why is it we always remember the a55holes but we dont know the heros.........
Just make sure if you see some young lad in Uniform in the Pub, you make sure he does not have to reach for his wallet.

[opso]

Just make sure if you see some young lad in Uniform in the Pub, you make sure he does not have to reach for his wallet.Wouldn't that be nice! Unfortunately, we live in the same country where a TA bloke returning from Iraq and dumped in the waiting area of his local NHS hospital was asked to change out of uniform so that he didn't offend anyone. :(

[B Sousa]

"was asked to change out of uniform so that he didn't offend anyone. "

Whoever made that comment needs a serious ass whippin.

[Footless Halls]

Apologies for the duplication as I pointed this out on another thread, but Kember's pacificism is not restricted to Tony's war in Iraq.

Kember refused National Service in 1949 - refusing to stand up against the Russians at the time of the Berlin airlift, the Rape of Eastern Europe and the Gulag.

Perhaps more charitably, I'm reminded of that perceptive phrase in the Introduction to "Sagittarius Rising" by Cecil Lewis: 'We are told that men grow wiser as the grow older, but I often think they grow more foolish'.

Hear, hear!

[Dave Martin]

I really think any such people planning to go to Iraq should be left in absolutely no doubt as to their status should they be taken hostage. It should be clearly pointed out that no effort will be spent and no risk of life taken in attempting a rescue. End of story.

Right, so I take it that'll include the boys in Blackwater, heading off to Iraq for nothing more than the cash?

Root'n tooting chaps we got here. Since when did the armed forces ever do anything for "thanks" anyway? Has it really gone that soft now that you're considered jack for forgetting the pleasantries?

Please.

Footless Halls: I don't doubt that Kember refused National Service. But are you saying that this refusal is a refusal "to stand up against the russians", the "rape" of Eastern Europe and the Gulag ? If that actually was the case, maybe he has seen the error of his ways, his mission in Iraq perhaps being somewhat cathartic?

[Melchett01]

The British military announced today that they had air-dropped former hostages Norman Kembler, James Loony and Harmeet Singh Sooden into the Iraqidesert, just a week after their rescue from a house west of Baghdad. The men had been held by insurgents for four months.

Since their release, the three men, all from a Christian Peacemaker team, have spoken with deep admiration and respect for their captors, while not offering any degree of gratitiude to the British commandos who risked their lives to save them.

"We realize now that we made a huge mistake," said Captain Ian Coates of the British Army, "and it was time to return these men to the people they love and respect."

Coates wistfully related the story of how the former hostages were told of the decision to reunite them with their brethren in Iraq.

"To keep it a surprise, we used our commandos to gather the men in the middle of the night," he said. "They were so surprised and excited that we needed to duct tape their mouths and tie them up. But there was no doubt that they were overjoyed to be returning to Iraq. Their eyes were as big as saucers, and Kembler even wet his jammies in excitement!"

The men were whisked by military jet back to a British Military base in Kuwait, and flown by helicopter into Iraq at dawn. Captain Coates struggled to keep his composure as he described the reunion.

"The air drop was a remarkable moment, something I was honored to see," he said. "The men were writhing around, screaming and crying with joy. There wasn't a dry eye in the helicopter as we rolled them out."

The British Military was concerned that the men would not be picked up quickly, leaving them to wander in the dessert. So each man was given a bright red parachute emblazoned with one of the famed Danish Mohammed cartoons.

"The cartoons really did the trick," said Captain Coates. "As they drifted downward, you could see the insurgents gathering to welcome them. Some had even set fires to help guide them as they landed. We could hear the chants of welcome even over the whir of the rotors. Did you ever see Born Free? It was like that, but better."

Coates would not comment on reports that the three men were all wearing "Jesus Rules, Mohammed Drools" T-Shirts.

[WhiteOvies]

At risk of thread drift here but having had the misfortune to end up in a hospital on Friday night in rig, I received nothing but a few wolf whistles, a couple of sarcy comments from drunks and a few appreciative comments from females. If any of the staff had asked me to change when I was trying to help my seriously ill wife I would have had strong words with them.
However, I might also have a few words with a lad if I found him in uniform in a pub, purely because in this country he might risk a serious beating from the locals.

I never expected thanks for doing the job I do but occassionally it would be nice to have some respect for being in an organisation where you might risk your life for Queen and Country, something many in this country would not do. The UK general public seem to hold the Armed Forces in particular contempt, Kember is just at the extreme of the scale. :mad: :*

[pr00ne]

Footless Halls,

The "rape of Eastern Europe"? Why on earth should Norman Kember "stand up" to that when the partition of Europe was agreed by Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill? If you mean the Rape of Berlin and Eastern Germany by the Red Army, may I remind you that they were on our side when that outrage occurred!

The man is a pacifist and therefore is merely being consistent, he has the courage of his convictions. I think he is wrong but that does not mean I don't admire certain things about the man.

Whiteovies,

I see many servicemen in uniform in and around my haunts of Oxford and London, not many in uniform in pubs but I always thought that was not allowed anyway? Why on earth would someone want to go for a night out in uniform?

They don't seem to attract any other contempt or hostility than any other recogniseable group of individuals.

As for being asked to remove your uniform in a hospital because it may offend someone, what tosh! Offend who exactly? I hope the individual concerned gave a very abrupt and robust reply.

Don't some of our largest hospitals have quite substantial numbers of military personnel serving at them since the Tories dismantled the military hospitals?

[Vim_Fuego]

A few weeks after 911 occurred my wife had to take the parents of a child whom she was treating in a London hospital to one side. When she had politely finished asking the couple to remove the t-shirt from their healthier child which was emblazoned with a picture of the moment one of the airliners hit topped with some Arabic writing that essentially said, 'Bl00dy Brilliant' they stared in amazement at her for restricting their freedom to do what they wanted.

I'm as mellow a chap as you could meet on a fair day but my blood boiled at that one. Kember has the look and mannerisms of a person that would take the stance most guaranteed to rile any decent person.

In a Baghdad styly all chant, 'send him back...send him back etc'

[WhiteOvies]

Pr00ne,
Indeed uniform in pubs brings the Forces into 'disrepute' apparently. Never really stopped anyone after a freedom of city, Trafalgar 200, Golden Jubilee parade type bash. RN lads take great pride in their 'Square Rig' and find it actually attracts a lot of female attention when worn out on the town on authorised Rig Runs. Can't comment on Army and RAF however. Oxford and London are clearly more civilised than such places as Yeovil, Huntingdon and Stamford. Personally, whilst walking to a parade in uniform post 2003 I have been called a 'fascist murderer' and spat at, which may have biased me slightly.:(

Certain hospitals do indeed have substantial numbers of military medical personnel and I hope the story of the TA lad was a one off.

[Dave Martin]

Kember has the look and mannerisms of a person that would take the stance most guaranteed to rile any decent person.


Interesting.

We have a 74 year old man who, while quite possibly being missguided, is nonetheless brave enough to make the substantial personal sacrifice to travel to Iraq in persuit of his ideals and the goal we apparently all share - peace for the Iraqis. Would you be willing to do the same?

And yet after 3 months captive, facing potential death, is freed to receive...... vitriol. Why? Because he didn't say "thank-you" soon enough?!?!

FFS!!:yuk:

Given he is a long standing opponent of military action is it hardly surprising he doesn't want any part to play in the back slapping handed out after his release or any propaganda coup?
The Sun: "Operation Desert Norm"
The Telegraph: "[The Iraqis]are capable of being a pretty loathsome bunch and in many respects had what's coming to them"
...etc etc etc.

No less dare we mention that the organisation he worked for and his family asked that no lives be risked and no one be killed in a rescue attempt?

Vim, the man you are referring to was a Professor of medical physics at St. Bart's Hospital, London....yet the papers, and yourself, cast him as an idiot. Hardly an idiot. A religious idealist perhaps, but no more idiotic than those who felt invading Iraq was going to bring peace and prosperity, "liberating" armies set to be showered with flowers and the ongoing death and destruction merely blips in an otherwise shining progression to unity and democracy. This is man who's life in the medical profession has brought a great deal of good to the world.

Do his "look and mannerisms" really mean that much to you?

[Vim_Fuego]

And yet after 3 months captive, facing potential death, is freed to receive...... vitriol. Why? Because he didn't say "thank-you" soon enough?!?!


I seriously doubt he would have said 'thanks' at all if he could have got away with it.

propaganda coup?

More so on his behalf and that of his crusade. He would have received briefings and so forth post release and en-route to blighty. By purposely keeping quiet it has indeed stirred up a hornets nest in the press highlighting not only his release but his activities...

Do his "look and mannerisms" really mean that much to you?

The first taste is with the eye. I do not read 'red tops' and pay little heed to sensationalist public opinion. Thats just how he comes over to me.

[colmac747]

Can't believe i've just read this quote:

Mr Kember said he "continues to thank" his rescuers.

"They were brave. I disagree with their profession, but it is ironic isn't it - you go as a peace activist and you are rescued by the SAS, which is perhaps the most violent of all the British forces.

"Anyway I am grateful to them.

:yuk:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4911358.stm

[scameron77]

If it did turn out he forgot to thank the SAS, the Canadians and the Yanks (for forming a perimeter probably - cheers lads :ok:) then he should think himself lucky 22 didn't slot him while chained to a radiator.

Would have saved the Pinner Council a meals on wheels visit every day and the DHS 75 quid a week :E

The star'n'stripes boys said they were acting on inteligence gained the night before the rescue.

Not two words I'd expect to see int he same sentence . . . lets be glad they didn't send in a Tomahawk when we were in 'freeing' Mr Kember.

As for the phone call, does anyone think the bods who let King Ding-a-Ling make it, allowed it on the off chance his naughty friends may unload an AK into the useless lot before high-tailing it and save everyones safety, time and money at the expense of a few politicans expressing outrage. I hope it was a calculated risk that unfortunately didn't pay off. Harsh, maybe so.

My view is the same if someone goes walking up onto the Cairngorms in the middle of winter wearing jeans, a Marks and Spencer jumper and with a copy of an AA road map, let them pay a % of their rescue costs, see if they still do it in their droves. I suspect SAR would log less hours every year.

Taxpayers money wasted on rescue operation, diplomacy, etc. + Sordid little back-alley conversations/deals done between our government and a bunch of backward looking fanatical flip-flops = Enough to pay for reliable equipment for troops from the date of his capture until we withdraw.

Despite his believes and morals, wandering around Iraq, during an insurgency, 76 years old, with a bible and humming 'Coom Bye Ya' was maybe shortsighted - he needs to take a look in a mirror.

And the spokeswoman for the charity who is adamant about going to Iraq this summer, make her show up at a police station with her passport like the football hooligans, silly bint.

NB Congrats to Melchott for a very entertaining post.