paying to sit together

[Flock1]

Just booked a holiday. One of the options whilst booking the flight portion of the package was to pay £12 each to sit together.

So what would happen if I chose not to tick this box? Would we be split up, or would we, as I presume, be allocated seats together anyway?

Just wondering.

PS. The airline in question is Thomsonfly.

[PaperTiger]

Just booked a holiday. One of the options whilst booking the flight portion of the package was to pay £12 each to sit together.
So what would happen if I chose not to tick this box? Would we be split up, or would we, as I presume, be allocated seats together anyway?
Just wondering.
PS. The airline in question is Thomsonfly.Depends on a) how many people have ponied up for the privilege of seat selection, and b) how early you get to the checkin desk.
Air Canada now offers this um.. service (ptooey :yuk: ) on some fares, I never pay it but have always got the seat I wanted so far.

If enough passengers boycotted this nonsense, the airlines would drop it. Sadly, as I pointed out in another thread, most punters are dumb enough to let them get away with it :mad: .

What's next, charging extra for exit row and aisle seats ? Oh, wait....

[Avman]

Please PaperTiger, don't quote entire posts with your reply. Totally unnecessary - especially when you're refering to the one and only post which is directly above yours!

[lexxity]

On the three occasions I've used a charter carrier I've had no problems getting seats together without paying.

However from a check in point of view if you are travelling at a peak time you can get flights where the majority of pax have paid to sit together in which case it's best to turn up early and hope for the best.

[MarkD]

Shortsighted. Will lead to a lot of aggro at check-in counters. But what do beancounters care, right?

[Crepello]

Avman made a totally fair point. If everyone quoted the post they were responding too, navigating the forums would be most awkward.

Fortunately, most people don't. But there's always one... :rolleyes:

[airborne_artist]

Can I pay not to sit with my kids? They'll be fine on their own, really .. :E

[TightSlot]

Well, Tfly are my lot, so I suppose that I'd better give some sort of answer.

Our research found that obtaining seats together is a big issue for many leisure customers (more so than business travel) and many families were attempting to check in very early to avoid being split up. The £12 is a gaurantee that you won't get seperated, no matter what other seating requests may or may not be available. To the hardened vets of air travel that cluster in this forum, this may well seem like a waste of money: Many of our customers travel only once or twice a year, and see it as a worthwhile investment. I won't deny that it's a revenue stream for Tfly (and the others), and is charging people for something that used to be free - although getting split up also used to be free, and still is.

As to whether or not is necessary? - it depends. On mid-haul and long haul flights, a majority of customers will tend to pre-book both in-flight meals and seats together, and this will increase the likelihood of you getting split up if the flight is full and you have not pre-booked seat together. It's your call on the risk.

In my view, this policy is regrettable, but necessary, when competing in a world where, in economy at least, airlines are riven to compete as to who can offer the least. It's not the world that was there when we started flying, and not the world we want, but it is the one that we've got. The most successful airlines in Europe seem to bee the LoCo's, and what they do affects everybody else. Sorry about that... :uhoh:

[Flock1]

Tightslot,

Thanks for that. Makes sense, regrettable though it is. What will be next though? Paying an extra premium for avoiding a queue at check-in? Paying extra for a better quality meal? How about we just call it first class!!

Flock1

[TightSlot]

Paying an extra premium for avoiding a queue at check-in?

Already happens pal, sorry about that - Twilight check in on longhaul, exec lounges - if you can think of it we'll sell it!
:ooh:

[PPRuNe Radar]

I don't pay ... on the basis that the airline will perhaps put my kids somewhere else, and they can annoy the cabin crew instead of me :p

Just joking ... I think :)

[1DC]

Never paid on short haul charter and it has never been a problem.Never flown a long haul charter so never had to make the decision,Mrs 1DC is a bit nervous when flying so if their was a reasonable risk of getting seperated i would pay up..If you book Tfly's equivelant of premium economy do you still have to pay a premium to sit together?

[Bangkokeasy]

Would never pay for such a thing myself, but I HAVE spent an inordinate amount of time on numerous occasions, standing in line behind couples and families, who have argued at length with the check-in people, in their quest to sit together. I have seen it take 20 minutes or more to check in people being awkward about this and they always seem to be the ones in front of me :*

I assume this is a charge paid in advance? If so, and it gets rid of this problem, I am all for it.

That said, I have on occasions, benefited from the odd seat upgrade, by being kind enough to move, so the aforementioned can hold hands. So, perhaps it is not such a good thing....?

[airborne_artist]

All five Artists went to Zimbabwe about 10 years ago, and on our travels we picked up an internal flight that had started further up the route. It was full on arrival at our stop, less the five seats we needed, dotted around the cabin individually. Youngest was 3, eldest was 9. They were perfectly happy to sit with strangers, behaved impeccably, and got on with their colouring books.

In a perverse way, could charging people who want to sit together have the effect of reducing the base ticket price?

[1972]

Paper Tiger, Avman & Crepello,

Personally I don't think people including quotes is annoying (it's a useful feature of this forum - you don't have to keep reading all the excerpts in grey!), nor do I find this practice makes a thread unneccessarily long or more difficult to follow. But debating a very simple point at length - instead of concentrating on the matter in hand - is a lot more frustrating! Why don't you just send a PM?

[Daysleeper]

Of course these days if you do split a family up, leave small (ish) children sitting with strangers you leave yourselves and your company exposed to massive lawsuits if anything or anyone "interferes" with said sprogs. And I dont think "they could have paid more to sit together" is an acceptable defence in court.

[lexxity]

If so, and it gets rid of this problem, I am all for it.


Unfortunately it doesn't always get rid of the problem. I was checking in an early morning (about 4am ish) charter and I had a group of two at my desk and my collegue had another group of two at her desk. They had paid to sit together and when pre-allocating seats together it is standard practice (within my company) to sit thr groups across rather than 2 in front, 2 behind. Anyhow, the two groups started chatting to each other and I asked where they travelling together and they said no. :confused: So ok we check them in and then before leaving they check their respective seat numbers and all congregate around my desk shouting about how they were sat together and didn't we ever listen. Obviously we hadn't deliberately checked them in to seats next to each other, but I took all the tickets and noticed they were all on the same booking reference, which I checked against the prebooked seats list and lo and behold there were their names! They spent 20mins screaming (and they were) at me about how they didn't want to sit together and demanding to be moved. I explained that the flight was full and I had no other seats available so was unable to move them. After I got them to calm down they all walked away happy as larry and as we boarded the flight they were again happy as larry. Very, very odd. I still don't know what their problem was. :confused: :confused:

[radeng]

Daysleeper,
I seem to remember it having been stated on this forum that some airlines have an SOP of making sure that young children aren't sat by strangers. Some years ago, on a transatlantic flight on American, the back row was being kept by the FA for herself, and she was most upset when a woman with three young kids objected to them being spread around the cabin. I objected too, as I didn't want a small girl sitting beside me - I don't trust them! Eventually, after I commented to the FA 'I thought American had an SOP about seating kids by strangers', she very hurriedly put them all in the back row.....
This is an area where doubtless Bealine has the expertise to comment....

[RevMan2]

Easy solution - just inform the airline that you'll sue them to within an inch of their life if they expose your children to potential sexual abuse by seating them next to strangers.

Bound to work with the overly PC faction - NZ, QF etc

[TightSlot]

Easy solution - just inform the airline that you'll sue them to within an inch of their life if they expose your children to potential sexual abuse by seating them next to strangers.

Just to stir the pot a little - this tactic is sometimes used, as well as the backup version of shouting, crying and screaming abuse, by families checking in late when they are split. The inevitable result is that somebody else is forced to move seat (i.e. be inconvenienced) because the family chose not to prepare properly - this happens whether or not seats are pre-booked. I've twice been in a Mexican stand-off with this situation: The family refuse to sit down and nobody will move seats to accomodate them. In the end, one side or another, when faced with a 2 hour slot delay or a bagage ID, will back down, and then sulk ferociously for the rest of the flight. The funny thing is, the family is always the same - their faces are different each time, but apart from that, it's never a surprise!:hmm:

[WHBM]

I presume it was before the kids/strangers rules (which I have to tell you I find insulting) were introduced, but I once returned on BA Berlin to London and was put next to the two UMs (unrelated) on board.

On climbout I unwisely suggested to the 8-year old boy next to me that maybe a visit to the flight deck (I told you it was a while ago) could be arranged. Oh my, that was a mistake ! "Oh wow! Can I go now can I go now can I go now ???". I said I would ask the crew. "Look, here she comes, ask this lady ask this lady". And so on for the rest of the flight !

[radeng]

WHBM,
I agree that in a way the kids/strangers rule is insulting. On the other hand, in today's litigious society, combined with a 'believe anything a kid alleges' attitude, I don't want anybody's kid sitting next to me. That's for my protection. (Note that radeng has no kids that he knows of...)

[1972]

Paper Tiger,

Eh? Please translate. Me no comprende Latin! Just googled it - still don't get it!

[Final 3 Greens]

Just to stir the pot a little - this tactic is sometimes used, as well as the backup version of shouting, crying and screaming abuse, by families checking in late when they are split.

So what about the alleged CAA view that families should not be split, due to safety reasons?

[bmibaby.com]

I find the issue of seat allocation perhaps one of the most fascinating areas of the airline industry from a passenger perspective, which perhaps says something about what years in the industry does to one's imagination! For airlines that operate open seating policies, passengers are usually all to ready to say that they'd be willing to pay a bit extra to sit together and know where those seats are. Yet for those who charge for such a service, there seems to be a lot of griping that this isn't free, yet I would consider arriving at the airport in the knowledge of where your party is seated as a frill. There has been a rumour on another aviation forum that easyJet are considering allocated seating, and doing what bmibaby & Thomsonfly do, by charging passengers a nominal fee to reserve your seats as part of the booking process. For families or picky passengers, it seems a popular option, and an excellent revenue stream for airlines who need to find as many ways as possible to get some extra cash.

[6chimes]

To me it just seems like a marketing scam thought up by the faceless accountants that dont ever have to deal with irate pax. It is just playing on the fears that many people who dont travel very often and getting a seat together is something that people think/worry about in advance. Strangely you dont get charged to sit together in a restaurant, they welcome your custom, which includes the LO CO equivalent Mcdonalds.

Besides families with small children are not allowed to be split up for safety reasons as said earlier in this thread.

6

[ExSimGuy]

Experiences:

As a "staff standby" on a US carrier, getting my seat after all of the fare-paying pax have theirs and there's a few left, I often find that I get an empty seat beside me, even when the flight is almost full. I can only assume this is because check-in staff try to hold a few "side-by-side" seats for "couples" late check-in fare-paying pax!

Flying (full fare economy on GF) London-Bahrain a few days ago, I was politely asked by the CC if I wouldn't mind giving up "my half" of a 4-seat row so that the guy in 22c could have his family in 22c thru 22f. No, they didn't offer me a seat in First (!) but a perfectly acceptable pair of seats in 22a and b (flight was about half full) No problem! (I guess these guys either checked-in late, or left hubby checkin with the bags and the rest of the family checked in later - who'd a known!!??!)

I frequently fly with a "companion", either business or social (!) and have never had a problem getting seats together (as long as you don't leave your check-in until almost too late!)

In the Middle-East, I never have the embarrassing experience of being sat next to a black-shrouded "local" lady (equivalent to being sat beside a female UM in the Western World!) as check-in staff must have some "demographic data" on the seating computer! (and I'd be more than embarrassed if the said black-shroud started chatting me up!)

One complaint though is that I fequently get either seated beside the 22-stone Egyptian who cannot eat his meal without sticking his elbow in my ear, or behind the guy who folds his seat to full recline before the meal service gets under way:mad:

Oh well, if we really want leg-room, we'd pay for First or Business - pity my company won't spring for it!

[10secondsurvey]

1972


It is,I believe, the scottish motto; I will not be attacked with impunity (or similar). but I might be completely wrong also... you see it on the edge of Scottish pound coins.

[TightSlot]

So what about the alleged CAA view that families should not be split, due to safety reasons?
Besides families with small children are not allowed to be split up for safety reasons as said earlier in this thread

I don't know whether or not this rule exists: I do know that if it does, it is not trained as policy to Cabin Crew, either at Tfly or any other UK company where I know crew.

Charter flights tend to be full, more so than scheduled. On a full aircraft, one person's requirement for a specific seating can only be accomodated at the expense of somebody else's requirement - everybody can't win. Given that we offer families the choice to pre-book seats together to prevent their being split up, it strikes me as unreasonable that a family should choose not to pre-book, turn up late and then insist that they be sat together at the expense of others that have pre-booked. It is unfair on the other passengers, and on the arline staff, and on the children involved - this usually matters not a wit to the pikey parents that are involved, but such is the rich tapestry of life.

[patdavies]

From the CAA website

Seating – family
CAA guidelines ask airlines to develop procedures for the seat allocation of family groups, particularly when a group includes children. It is probable that family group members would seek each other out should an emergency evacuation be required, an action that could adversely affect the rapid evacuation of the aircraft. Children should be seated where they can be adequately supervised by an accompanying adult in the event of turbulence or a decompression in the cabin.
Children, accompanied by adults, should ideally be seated in the same seat row as the adult.
In wide-bodied aircraft, children and accompanying adults should not be separated by more than one aisle. Where this is not possible, children should be separated by no more than one seat row from accompanying adults.

[PPRuNe Radar]

As the holiday companies presumably advise the charter airline of who is booked to fly with them well in advance, it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to allocate pre booked seats together to people who booked in the same group. Those who book seperately or at the very last minute might have to take their chances, but 90+ % of travellers would probably get to be together -before they reach the airport.

Scheduled airlines seem to have no problem in allocating me a pre booked seat several days in advance. Which I can then check (and change) on their websites :ok:

[lexxity]

Charter airlines on the whole don't get pax lists until 24hrs prior to departure and they do preallocate seats to those who've paid to sit together. Then everyone else takes pot luck.

[WHBM]

Charter airlines .... do preallocate seats to those who've paid to sit together. Then everyone else takes pot luck.
Why do they choose to ignore the CAA guidelines quoted by Patdavies above ? Who authorised them to ignore this guideline from the CAA ? Did they state to the CAA they were ignoring one (or more) guidelines when applying for their AOC ?

The low-costs (free seating) seem at have accommodated this requirement by asking family groups with children to board first.

[6chimes]

I don't know whether or not this rule exists: I do know that if it does, it is not trained as policy to Cabin Crew, either at Tfly or any other UK company where I know crew.

It is taught at my airline. But as each airline agrees its own procedures with the CAA it may not be at yours. However as a crew member I dont think I would be doing my job properly if I didnt consider that a child split from his parents might not be able to put on an O2 mask in a decompression regardless of who paid for what.

6

[lexxity]

Most airlines will try their very best to accommodate a child with at least one of its parents or guardians, but sometimes it is just not possible. It is very rare that a UK airline will seperate a child from one of it's guardians, but they will split the family group up.

[PAXboy]

It reminds me of the time when a family unit could not be accomodated together on a long sector from Kinshasa to Brussels ...

The seat next to me had been allocated to the child and the mother decided to take that seat for herself and made the child sit with her father.

The child? Oh, she was 16 or 17 and ripening beautifully. So I took this as a compliment :E

__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[bealine]

First off - let's get one thing crystal clear! The CAA "asks" airlines is not the same thing as a "rule" or a "guideline" at all. It is only a suggestion!

Secondly, the CAA has no balls - otherwise Ryanair would have been grounded within weeks of commencing its UK operations over the breaches of safety regarding "utterance of false statements to obtain ATC clearance". (In their early days, their pilots routinely reported falsely that they were "low on fuel" in order to jump the queue for landing - a serious safety offence as it could make Air Traffic Controllers disbelieve a genuine "low fuel" alert!) Ryanair, EasyJet and all US carriers operating out of the UK would have been grounded for overloading cabin baggage lockers sometimes to twice or three times their CAA plated weights etc etc etc

For your information, NorthWest is to introduce a fixed charge for seating together, or for an Emergency Exit seat, or for a Window or Aisle seat. The only seat free of any charge will be a middle one!

[fernytickles]

So, theoretically, what would happen if the seats were all pre-allocated and paid for? Some with families of 5 or 7 or 3 or 6 or 8? If someone has paid their money, but cannot be accommodated, do they get a refund?

[bealine]

Presumably they would know from their departure control system once the maximum allocation had been reached.

From the airline's point of view, I can appreciate their position - the passenger part of me says "How disgusting, to charge for something that has always been part of the service and free before", but then the airline part of me says that US carriers are still very much in financial dire straits and any management "initiatives" to pump a few more shekels into the coffers will surely help!

[radeng]

Bealine,
Am I correct in thinking that major scheduled carriers have SOPs about seating kids, UM's, and so on?

[bealine]

I don't know about other airlines - certainly BA has no "Standard Operating Procedure" as far as seating passengers together is concerned, unless for specific purposes (eg Medical case travelling with nurse/doctor). Having said that, we do our best from a customer service perspective to seat families together - BUT if they turn up at the last minute, that is not always possible or practical - especially nowadays with so many seats being piked in advance by On-Line Check In! :ugh:

BTW the computer time stamps the check-in transaction and allocates "Sequence Numbers" so you can't lie about "being at the airport x hours before" and standing in a queue for y hours! (a common comment when people are separated) - when the aircraft has 147 seats and your Boarding Passes are numbered 144,145 and 146 I'm afraid the game's up! It means 143 people managed tto get to check-in before you!:rolleyes:

[radeng]

Bealine,
Does that mean then that you could get the situation where (extreme case postulated) family with three kids spread out throughout the plane, possibly with a young girl stuck between two male passengers (who are of course, in today's PC society, considered to be paedophile rapists?)

[jetstream7]

As an aside to the thread, when checking in to fly Go a few years ago the Jetstream7's were informed that we had been preallocated seats and were all sitting together.

Pretty good for a LCC I thought. Pity easyJet never took this on when they took them over.

What was even more impressive was that when we asked to change the arrangements they had made in advance for us, it was done with a smile and a 'no problem'.

So... if a LCC could do this, why can't the scheduled carriers or charter airlines just do this as a matter of course - or is the revenue stream really that good?