IS MAS TAKING Expats?? Today i saw.... [Archive]

MAStake

23rd Mar 2006, 08:18

MAS is finding it almost impossible to retain its local pilots let alone take in expats.

With the rescue package involving drastic reductions in flights and aircraft there will be excess pilots and it is possible that quite a few will be farmed out.

MAS does however need good managers. But who would join a sinking ship and work under people who have a proven track record of incompetence?

Chrome

23rd Mar 2006, 09:02

From what I gather, AK is looking for A320 commanders. Looks like those MAS captains will be switching sides now.

aka320

23rd Mar 2006, 11:45

Japanese pilots?AK has 4 Japanese FO..

Masbolehlah

23rd Mar 2006, 14:30

Aiya...,You guys ahhhhhh....MAS has just hired ex KLM skippers and F/os on the B744 and 777 lah. What no moneyyyy ?
Even the head of Flight Ops is from BA. What you talking lah.. Not like your 2 bit outfits . Come on lah... MAS bolehlah.....:ok:

camelbird

23rd Mar 2006, 15:47

I'm sure MAS has the money to spend on a couple of expat,but that is just to cover short term requirement. With a no. of B744 and B777 guys leaving or left they have no choice but to cover crew shortages with expat. As for the two bit outfits, they not in the same position as MAS.
MAS can spend what it needs as it's a national airline but who's money?
Those twobit outfits are at least making money, not beg, steal,or borrow!!
So the only thing BOLEH for MAS is losing money!!!!:D

babyboeing400

24th Mar 2006, 08:24

if what MAStake said is true,pilots on what fleet and on which step on the seniority ladder would have to go first? :uhoh:

GTR-34

24th Mar 2006, 13:06

I think people are leaving regardless of seniority in the company. Don't see much future hanging on unless guys wanna retire as F/Os. :rolleyes:

Masbolehlah

24th Mar 2006, 16:02

I say man, Mr Camel Bird. Hope the bird flu hasnt got to you :} . Profit or loss is beyond you and me lah . Bottom line is the pay in MAS is not bad ( better than most 2 bit outfits !) and pilots get to work and stay in their own country . It has been around for 50+ years and has a good track record . How the goverment spends its money for the airline is best for another forum . AS pilots we can only work profesionaly . Reeeelax lah .

babyboeing400

24th Mar 2006, 16:20

Masbolehlah,what u said is really true..as pilots,why do you need to worry about the "politics" and everything else in the company other than getting your roster and just fly?let the leaves fall wherever they may be and live life to the FULLEST!

Latif-Returns

26th Mar 2006, 07:19

MAS pay isn't bad? What aviation planet are you living on?

Don't tell me that Malaysian standard of living is cheaper, i've heard that old chestnut too many times.

MAS has to start paying world AWARD rates, otherwise the pilots will keep checking out.

MAS does however need good managers. But who would join a sinking ship and work under people who have a proven track record of incompetence?

Well said! Can't see it happening with the Malaysian short sighted approach....

babyboeing400

26th Mar 2006, 12:22

with a starting take-home pay as a S/O of RM7000-9000..the pay isnt bad compared to other jobs in malaysia,high even.just ask any degree-holder which job gives them that salary range when they first start work..

Latif-Returns

26th Mar 2006, 15:32

Babyboeing that's the exact answer I was talking about!

the pay isnt bad compared to other jobs in malaysia,high even.just ask any degree-holder which job gives them that salary range when they first start work

Who is comparing a jet job with sitting at a computer punching in numbers 9-5 everyday with a fresh degree in information technology from some Malay university?

I'm talking about pay and wages being equal or at least close to matching other airlines (yes there are other airlines beside MAS). Otherwise who in there right mind stays at MAS longer than they need too? The only pilots staying at MAS are the ones that cant get a job anywhere else due to there below standard ability to make command decisions, control and navigate a fully automated aircraft.

Look at the SO pay for Cx then get back to me....And I'll stop you before you say HK is more expensive than KL...

Masbolehlah

26th Mar 2006, 16:51

Hello Mr Latif Return. Where have you just returned from , Long Pasia? :} After the last increment MAS pilots are getting very close to industry standard pay . A senior skipper takes home USD10k + including provident fund .And with the Ringgit increasing on a daily basis , its a pay cut to all those earning USD but having expense in Malaysia. Ouch !! . And dont start on the only the good pilots left for other airlines cr*p . The good ones are the ones who managed their work and lives profesionaly and didnt have to leave like economic refugees to some other place (losers !! ). Dont blame the airline for your own failures lah , and worst dont go on a ego trip after you left thinking like you are some hero . Not.
Relax lah, MAS Bolehlah :ok:

lesenterbang

27th Mar 2006, 01:43

... The only pilots staying at MAS are the ones that cant get a job anywhere else due to there below standard ability to make command decisions, control and navigate a fully automated aircraft. ...

Please, not this crap again. Have you ever heard about family commitments etc. ? Is money all that you want in your life?

Sure the money is not as good as the desert or the northwest, but compared to other Malaysian airlines it is almost the same.

EY777

27th Mar 2006, 08:54

Guys, take it easy, I believe if you look at Latif's posting & his alter ego Latif Returns, he's just yanking all our chains.Remember the divide & conquer rule?
Indeed, MAS has paid up to shut the outflow of their pilots, but they still have to manage the expectations of the pilots.Money isn't everything, but it's also not the only thing why most of us left MAS.Issues like leave, promotion prospects & other priviliges.The money part has been partly addressed,but the other issues are still up in the air.......so I guess it's still hunting season there :}
As for the crap that Latif wrote,
The only pilots staying at MAS are the ones that cant get a job anywhere else due to there below standard ability to make command decisions, control and navigate a fully automated aircraft.

I believe he's just a bitter guy......& I don't think he was ex MAS as he would know how my ex colleagues standards are & those who remain choose to do so for obvious reason.
Peace guys! :ok:
p.s. good luck in the restructuring!

fhchiang

27th Mar 2006, 15:01

seriosuly.. the pilot who remain are not those INCOMPETENT pilots..

they have their commitments...

beyondexpectations

28th Mar 2006, 06:34

The good ones are the ones who managed their work and lives profesionaly and didnt have to leave like economic refugees to some other place (losers !! ). Dont blame the airline for your own failures lah , and worst dont go on a ego trip after you left thinking like you are some hero . Not.
wow, talk about bitter!there's a great working pilot! mas should be blessed to have such an exemplary individual flying its planes, keeping the 6 million odd passengers safe and sound.:ok:
i know many in mas who works professionally even in the most trying times. but they do not go on to rebuking guys who left. but wished us luck. basically its mutual respect between professionals.
but there is no need to be grateful. to each his own. we all are looking to make a better life. anywhere will do just fine, as long as my hard earn pay is not misused by idiots, refer how politicians debate in parliament? sad bunch mostly...*plus it would not be surprising to find rakyat's tax being used to help out numerous mismanaged GLCs incl MAS, didn't want to be in the system that perpetuates and accepts loss making as a norm...*that is way uncool but it is how it is...:cool:

babyboeing400

28th Mar 2006, 12:21

i wonder what's gonna happen when MAS retrenches its staff size to 16,500...:\

fhchiang

28th Mar 2006, 13:36

babyboeing.. check PM.
thx

Masbolehlah

29th Mar 2006, 10:14

wow, talk about bitter!there's a great working pilot! mas should be blessed to have such an exemplary individual flying its planes, keeping the 6 million odd passengers safe and sound.

Bitter ? I am not the one who had to flee !! And yes , the 10 million odd passengers flying with MAS are safe, sound and happy. The 50+ years of its track record speaks for itself .How so your outfit?

but there is no need to be grateful. to each his own. we all are looking to make a better life. anywhere will do just fine

No, I didnt think you had it in you . Gratitude is for those who have a conscience. Spoken like a true parasite.

, as long as my hard earn pay is not misused by idiots, refer how politicians debate in parliament? sad bunch mostly...*plus it would not be surprising to find rakyat's tax being used to help out numerous mismanaged GLCs incl MAS, didn't want to be in the system that perpetuates and accepts loss making as a norm...*that is way uncool but it is how it is.

Here I have to agree with you . It must be the same idiots, the same system and processes that took you into MAS in the first place right ? What idiots !! :}

My posting is not against all who have left. There are a great many who left especially in the early years (after the ringgit devaluation)who are respected by all in MAS as true profesionals. Its those who slipped through the cracks to get into MAS , then try everywhere, finally getting hired and then turn around to condemn MAS that made me want to post my comments .

GTR-34

29th Mar 2006, 11:18

Will MAS ever retrench staff? Haven't heard of it before..MAS is more of a social service company than a business entity..

beyondexpectations

29th Mar 2006, 11:40

Masbolehlah,
Assalamualaikum! You remind me of someone I knew back home, young, feisty, eager, and ofcourse, angry.

Roots are what you should have referred to. Malaysian expat pilots in the Middle East I should guess mainly started out their flying carreers from scratch thanks to the 1990s heyday of Far Eastern aviation boom. I am guessing here.

Rest assured the checklist was completed, gratitude-yup check. conscience-ah! check. Bond-fully paid! check. Parasite's definitely not suited in this circumstances. Whereas being selected into the system, how should I gently put it for your consumption? Hmmm...Look at the company's year end financial review- audited. Being paid a certain amount of ringgit to do the job seems different when year in year out the same red figures are posted. So, yes, boleh, everything ofcourse boleh. It just got a little tiresome with same if not more bolehness that has encased certain managers not to mention the idiots in parliament.

I sincerely hope Idris will be able to make MAS a company not only Malaysians but all nationalities aspire to work with. That would certainly make many think differently but for now, sadly there's a lot repairing needed to be done.

p.s. better to check your facts on safety. Did you ever fly back the dead bodies from Tawau? The crash that was OSA'd.

Note: Its not to be personal, but wide strokes of being labelled names by previous colleagues known or not, seems unwarranted. But then again, I suppose that is how different individuals express themselves

GTR34,
Look into the papers. 6500 employees are in the retrenchment works. MAS, hopefullly is getting its business sense back.

EY777

29th Mar 2006, 13:25

Relaxlah bro, I believe all this name callings are coming from someone who is really bitter or never been with MAA (Malaysia Airlines Academy) :} This joker speaks highly of those who left because of the 97 finance meltdown.Old school perhaps?But then again he got it wrong with MAS's stellar accident record.....let's not mention the A300 in Subang then.... :ouch:
Well, we know who our friends & colleagues back in MAS.Our conscience is clear & as for the bond.....that's for the court to decide :E Let's not be distracted by some people who can't see the bigger picture, which is that pilots now are in demand & those who seek their fortunes will take their chances, wherever that may be.
Or is someone trying to yank our chains again? :*

beyondexpectations

29th Mar 2006, 15:19

EY777,
No better way to rileks other than pursuing your dreams. Right now, its where the cool sand blows. thats before the fog season comes yet again!;)
it just seems (prefix) Boleh has been overly used. It was good to be excited with the can-do spirit. until you dig deeper and look beyond further. :cool: ...

flightleader

30th Mar 2006, 07:43

Latif-returns might just be the sick Long Latif that trashed everyone. Can't get into a proper airline is YOUR own fault!:ouch:

As of those ex-KLM people,there are rumours saying they are Mr ZERO ZERO ONE intimate friends from Amsterdam.

MAStake

30th Mar 2006, 08:34

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!! Flightleader you must be referring to Banana Bond, younger brother of James of 007 fame.

Looks like he's up to his old tricks.

Ebony and Ivory

or

Yellow but White.

The leopard can't change its spots.

camelbird

31st Mar 2006, 16:34

1. Those who left did those who stayed back a favour maybe unintentionaly but this put pressure on the airline to increase the pay to stop more leaving.
2. There are good pilots and there are so so pilots but those who left are judged on a different scale then their previous airline. This is what we call benchmarking. And it was found that most of them, from MAS are of a better standard compared to other pilots joining other airlines.
3. I'm not saying that those who stayed back are not good, i've checked some of them and they would be an asset to any airline but they are not being checked by another party. So it seems that only the good ones are leaving.
4.Most of them who left are not economic refugees or losers as that Boleh guy would want us to believe, but they are looking after their family's welfare and what is good for them. But with an attitude like an ostrich which we now see from Boleh man, who just FLY and don't care how the company is being run or how the money is being spent, i hope he doesn't wake up one day and find out that he's out of a job or worse working for those TWOBIT outfit
5.Maybe there are those who got in the company by the back door but its after you get in that you have to prove yourself.(Sorry, daddy didn't do their base check) and they pass all their checks, so nobody got thru the cracks as Bolehman would say.
6. Parasite? Gratitude? Give me a break!! If you don't know any of those pilots and what they did for the company, don't shoot your mouth off to be heard it's not a fair comment.
Finally, no, there are no bird flu here and i am fine but do take care Boleh man because you have a higher chance of catching bird flu in the jungles of Batang Berjuntai.:D

Marcellus Wallace

2nd Apr 2006, 00:37

camelbird,
Terima Kasih wherever you are.

Glad I don't have to work with people with "Boleh" man's attitude. :eek:

But have to admit - luck plays a part in any job interview together with one's skills, attitude etc. Some are more fortunate than others.

Masbolehlah

2nd Apr 2006, 15:06

Aiyo , you guys are jokers lah . Surely . Tawau crash , Subang ... Let me take you to a website .. http://www.planecrashinfo.com/rates.htm . Unless you are working with Qantas or ANA I think you had best diam diam aje ok? MAS has a better safety record than ALL the other airlines in Asia-Australasia except for the two airlines mentiones above. We operate into all kinds of airfields using a wide variety of aircraft and inspite of that...... And if you say you are working for the ME airlines then thay havent even qualified to get into the list . Too young lah brother....and worst where do you think the pilots who set up the airlines these come from ? You think BA, Swiss air , Air France , Lufthansa never had accidents ? Just stick to the hard facts lah....... And Untabird., you mentioned about benchmarking with other airlines. I think that is the big problem with Malaysians . Inferiority complex. Never believing in their own ability until someone 'outside' tells them they are good.
AS for leaving because of family . I think they need to know where home is more than anything else. And they will tell you that incudes having papa with them . No point living like a nomad shuttling up and down or living in extreme conditions, both places which you can never call home and then only able to live a normal life after retirement ( 60 ?) by which time it is too late my friend , too late . Anyway , all the best lah guys. As for me, I will fly the MAS flag in the faces of all who dirties its name ...with hard facts to prove my point too :) .

beyondexpectations

2nd Apr 2006, 23:10

Thanks for your concern on expat malaysian pilots and families. much appreciated. we do what we can to have the best quality time with the family. yes, i hope the kids will be able to converse in bahasa even if they don't live in malaysia.

whereas setting up of airlines, the airlines you mentioned actually have a better safety record :8 look into http://www.airsafe.com/events/regions/europe.htm with the exception of swiss.

but i'd rather not depend on richard kebabjian from planecrashinfo or airsafe.com for that matter. it's just statistics can be skewed in so many ways for different varying interpretations. anyway, the point is hard facts are dubious when quoting from the web unless it is from any unbiased governing body. strangely no index is available in icao or faa websites.

lastly, i think you got benchmarking wrong. it is exactly what's needed to show once again where an organisation such as mas stand in the face of fierce competition with world class airlines. i think inferiority complex is misplaced here. it has nothing to do with it at all. benchmarking is done to find current standing and thereafter hopefully a way to proceed. i think you will know about the report that mapa has when it engaged a company to find out where mas pilots pay stand before? can't remember exact details but i am sure you can ask babs. ;)

am glad that you are proud of mas. for a long time it has needed more than that. meanwhile, i would also rebuke anyone who slanders the national carrier with untruths. but unlike you, my time with the kebaya girls was up. now i fly the jalur gemilang only la!:ok:

camelbird

6th Apr 2006, 20:38

Bolehman, please understand that my colleagues and i who have left do not have any inferior complex or any need to show that we are better. It is not us who say we are good but it's the airline that is hiring us that says so. Look at where some of us are now, chiefpilots,managers , instructors, trainers,etc.
We are where we are due to the experience we gain from MAS. We may say somethings that you might find distasteful about MAS but that doesn't mean that we are not grateful to MAS. NO, we still sayang MAS, that's why we criticize, but for you to not see the wrongs and say everything is O.K then it's you who don't sayang MAS. When you don't acknowledge the wrongs then you don't try to make it right.
You want to stay ,then good for you. I've done what i could when i was there, now you have to help MAS. Be proud that your fellow pilots from MAS are respected elsewhere, because it reflects the standard that we as MAS pilots have.
As for our family life, i personally can say that i have more time with my family then before and happier.
Salam.:D