Stop Firing.... Stop Firing....

[GengisKhant]

"Would you look at that....another colour-blind troglodyte who can't tell red from green wandering across the range!!!!"

Following recently released regarding opening more MOD land to the public...

"The MoD is increasing public access to its 240,000 hectares of Estate, Defence Secretary, John Reid, announced today.
An updated website, detailing the most attractive walks the MoD has to offer across the UK, has been launched as part of the new Defence Estate Strategy.
Mr Reid said:
"Looking after our Armed Forces involves providing a challenging and sustainable foundation for training, which means that we must cultivate and preserve our Estate. We recognise that putting it at the heart of estate planning and processes is essential for the capability of our Armed Forces future.
"Yet I am pleased that the public will also be able to enjoy a greater share of our estate and its heritage. The launch of the MoDs public access website will grow over time to include information on cycling, horse riding and rock climbing on MoD land."
With 1300km of public rights of way and 200km of routes, http://www.access.mod.uk holds full details of 14 walks in a countryside rich in heritage, archaeological interests, captivating views and a diversity of flora and fauna."

GengisK :ok:

[raytofclimb]

"Looking after our Armed Forces involves..............
Ha ha where do we start?
Halving flying pay upon PVR application?
Removing medical support for dependants?
The cost cutting joke that is JPA?

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Great idea. Encourage more equestrians onto The Plain and other Trg Areas. Then just wait for the claims to roll in because of horses spooked by low flying helos. Then you can eliminate this problem by further restricting low flying and other military activity. Everyone's a winner (except the Armed Forces)!

Yet another move that makes me doubt that the Govt is Looking after our Armed Forces

[airborne_artist]

They'll regret that gentle stroll in the countryside when they encounter the result of my Morning George that I hurridly covered with a dock leaf when the Blue recce patrol sprung the ambush we'd laid for them! :E :ok:

[green granite]

AA

Would'nt that come under "DO NOT DISTURB ANY DANGEROUS OBJECTS" ? :E

[airborne_artist]

Dangerous would be an understatement - put it this way, the Blue force would be alive today if I'd held on til the end of the firefight :E

[The Helpful Stacker]

Playing devils advocate here (isn't that a drink?) but isn't,

Halving flying pay upon PVR application?


looking after the budgetary resources of those who are staying in the RAF rather than those who are jumping ship? Flying pay is an retention incentive, if you have decided to PVR you've already decided to go.

Perhaps my humble stocktaking addled brain misses the point or something.

[airborne_artist]

Flying pay is an retention incentive

Not sure that was true when flying pay was first introduced, but maybe it is now. I think it came in as danger money.

[tu chan go]

Flying Pay is not a retention incentive, it is Specialist Pay. A certain element of it is danger money (the x factor). Name any other employer who, on receiving the required notice of one of their employees, decides to cut their wages. The individual is still a specialist and still putting him (or her) self in danger by doing the job. Why should they be punished financially for making what for a lot of them is a difficult and very painful decision. I know a lot of people who have PVRd and it is not a case of 'jumping ship' as you so eloquently put it. Many, if not all of them, were reluctant to leave but circumstances forced them to make the decision. It really makes my blood boil when people put it down as lack of loyalty. To have put themselves through the training process and all the hardships to get where they are shows the highest loyalty of all. Sometimes that loyalty is not repaid but the dedication is still there and they still get the job done.

Rant over!

[hobie]

Flying pay, while not so prescribed in Regulations or elsewhere, is regarded as being mainly in the nature of risk pay.

One definition in a far away land .... :sad:

[The Helpful Stacker]

But pilots join up to be pilots, its not as if you aren't aware of the risks before hand.

Should infantry be payed extra money because believe me (as an ex-infantryman) their job is a damn sight more risky then many pilots?

Its an incentive bonus payed to stop you all buggering off to BA/Virgin/Easy Jet etc because they are better paid. Its said often but usually ignored, if you joined the RAF for the money then you are a fool. FFS, many of you get to hoon around the skies in fighter planes, something a few of us plebes would love to do, but then you moan about losing half your flying pay when you've decided that your very cosseted lifestyle compare to the humble SAC who fixes your toy isn't quite cushy enough.

"Sympathy? You wanna check between sh!t and syphilis mate."

[Touchin' Down]

Agree with Tu Chan Go completely. Even if it was retention pay, it is not effective at doing that in my view. I've just PVR'ed and fully aware that my flying pay will half under JPA. Is that going to stop me??? Absolutely not! Actually, it almost makes me more determined to leave! Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely loved my time in the RAF but there comes a time when circumstances just make it sensible to move on, whether they be internal or external. I would have liked to think that I was receiving flying pay as a reward for the increased risk, x-factor, skill factor etc etc but it looks not to be the case. Does that mean I can be half as professional for my last 12 months? Now there's a thought! Would like being a flying officer again! But I know that won't happen. By our very nature we/I will continue to give 110% until my final day. Just means that I won't be leaving quite as happily and financially comfortable as I might have been. But will losing half my flying pay retain me...........Yeah Right!

[airborne_artist]

But pilots join up to be pilots, its not as if you aren't aware of the risks before hand.


And Paras join to be Paras, and they get para pay intil they leave, regardless. And when I was SF I got SF pay, regardless. I was being paid for my skills and committment to a role judged to be above the norms for the Service, just as when I was RN (P).

One of my happiest moments was when I was a Cpl, a Pay Corps SSgt looked at my daily rate and was most pissed off to see that I was earning more than him. When I explained how much time I spent keeping fit for the job he had to take a rest just thinking about it :ok:

[Touchin' Down]

FFS, many of you get to hoon around the skies in fighter planes, something a few of us plebes would love to do, but then you moan about losing half your flying pay when you've decided that your very cosseted lifestyle compare to the humble SAC who fixes your toy isn't quite cushy enough.
"Sympathy? You wanna check between sh!t and syphilis mate."

I've been 'hooning around the sky' for a few years now. Yeah, it's just like Top Gun, which is I'm sure your impression of it. I won't compare my job or danger level to that of an infantryman because I have not done both jobs. Clearly you have been a pilot, as you are able to make this comparison. I don't have the energy to be drawn into a long drawn out arguement about this..but let me just say that whatever it is you do in the military, I respect it. There are many people who earn more than I do for doing less, but that is called life. I don't want your sympathy, I never asked for it.

Have a nice day

[tu chan go]

Well said TD!:)

[The Helpful Stacker]

I don't care how tough you think flying around in a pointy wonder jet is, do you spend hours on the ground in Al Amargh patrolling within petrol bombs throw of the locals? Do you work you arse off making sure that jet you fly in is serviceable? No, you go to your pre-flight briefings like every other pilot and saddle up. Yes you may have secondary duties bit so to did my boss in Iraq who decided (to see what the lads endured) put herself on a convoy up to the 'Wild West' to see what all the fuss is all about. She was stoned by locals twice on her little jaunt but I have more respect for her for taking time out of her usual life to experience what her troops were going through on a nearly daily basis (and these are 'just' stacker's, people who interfere with your oh so important lives day in day out for the sake of numbers) than many of you grow bag suited wonder folk.

I have a brother who flies 'the mighty hunter' but I fully respect him and his comrades because it seems they respect the little people, unlike many on here.

Go on, bleat about the many years of well looked after service you have undertaken up until this point and I will listen, up until the point you fail to look beyond your next soft-top sports car purchase and acknowledge the hard work put in by so many who earn so little.

[Runaway Gun]

Location: Beneath a pile of WET blankets...

[Touchin' Down]

Speaking of the Top Gun thing stacker...here's one of your recent posts.........

I reckon the pax might get a little upset if the crew start pulling Immelman turns though.
"Hello this is your Captain speaking, I'll hit the brakes and he'll fly right by."

case and point.

[Runaway Gun]

"I'll hit the brakes and he'll fly right byyyyyeeee......"

I just watched my limited edition Top Gun DVD with all the extras for the second time today, and if I'm not mistaken, that line was used in the movie.

You FJ kids had better watch out. Helpful Stacker was obviously a technical consultant for that documentary, so he knows what he's talking about.

HS, grow up! I don't see any real FJ guys here chucking off about the dangers of squaddies on the ground. Remember, part of their job involves protecting those same guys and girls. They do not enjoy it when their people or allies are under attack. FJ's are also a very attractive target.

[Rakshasa]

Come on Stax, be reasonable. It's alright talking about the difference between a squaddie on patrol in Basrah and FJs but a broken plane comes with a hell of a bigger argh factor than a brick on the lid of a warrior does.

[[email protected]]

Is Al Armagh an ethnic quarter of Northern Ireland?

[foldingwings]

I smell southside or his less than understanding brother! You got a case, Stacker, or did you not get enough GCSEs?

[Vage Rot]

"Looking after our Armed Forces involves..............
Ha ha where do we start?
Halving flying pay upon PVR application?
Removing medical support for dependants?
The cost cutting joke that is JPA?

Good news too though! Apparently it is possible to PVR and exit quickly if you have a firm job offer - even if there is a return of service to go! All you need is a firm job offer!

I'm off to ask our local newsagent for a paper round!!

[southside]

This thread is beginning to dissolve into a willy waving competition....my job is more important than your job..etc etc.

Come on guys. we all do very important jobs, we all place our lives on the line (some more than others) and we all get paid a good wadge for doing it....

But going back to the guy who complained that his Flying pay was halved when he PVR'd.....bloody right...your lucky to get half...now bugger off.

[GengisKhant]

OK... OK....OK The Helpful Staker and his unbiased assault on all those winged creatures appears to have drawn suitable responses...., and I have been watching the string with interest...., especially as it was meant to encourage discussion on the increased access by Joe Public to MOD land....,

but what the heck......., freedom of speech is everyones right, but for Gawds sake Stacker...., give it a rest...., chill out..., take a pill or something!!!!

Anyone else wish to contribute to the MOD land debate, or will I just amend the string title to reflect THS's blinkered view of life and values in todays RAF?

How about a competition to identify the best winge of the month?

GengisK :mad: