View Full Version : 6000ft of runway not enough
Insidejob
20th Mar 2006, 13:27
Does anyone know what the take off and landing distance is for a motor glider? Apparently 6000ft is not enough for a grob at a well know hampshire vgs.Runway lights got in the way?
The Helpful Stacker
20th Mar 2006, 13:34
Does anyone know what the take off and landing distance is for a motor glider? Apparently 6000ft is not enough for a grob at a well know hampshire vgs.Runway lights got in the way?
The other a/c based there manage with only 6000ft of runway just fine, if its the VGS I believe it is.;)
airborne_artist
20th Mar 2006, 13:40
ISTR a story told me by a civvy FI that he'd done 5 landings to qualify for a night rating on one pass of a long runway (could have been Stansted) back in in the 70s.
Maybe our VGS mates hadn't put enough turns in the rubber band before letting off the brakes :E
SubdiFuge
20th Mar 2006, 17:49
http://http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202132
Insidejob
22nd Mar 2006, 17:15
Thanks Helpful Stacker, it must be an idiot pilot then if the others all manage it. I hope whoever it is doesn't pass this technique on to cadets or we will be reading about it on another thread. I suspect subdfuge has a similar view to mine if you look at previous postings!!
background
22nd Mar 2006, 22:14
People, will you give it up. Leave it for the appropriate people to deal with and stop guessing until you know the facts.
The VGS in question has had a lot of bad press on here lately which is unfair.
SubdiFuge
23rd Mar 2006, 05:20
"The VGS in question has had a lot of bad press on here lately which is unfair"
Errr...no its not!
snips
23rd Mar 2006, 08:51
To answer Insidejobs question:-
1000 metres is all thats required. Slight less if you're not doing rollers/touch and goes.
Regards
snips:8
boswell bear
23rd Mar 2006, 11:44
a Highly skilled VGS is cleared to operate off a very short Helipad ;)
FEWNCOP
24th Mar 2006, 20:14
Blimey, Gibralter's 6000ft long. If these muppets can't put down in 6000ft in a glider, my kid's are never flying with them.
frigthestoat
25th Mar 2006, 12:57
Apparently these muppets also manage to land without any fuel left as well!
GhostRider109
25th Mar 2006, 14:00
Was it the same 'Senior Instructor' muppet that likes cruising in airways whilst on a solo SCT jolly?
This VGS needs a serious looking at, and BEFORE someone gets hurt. Last time HQAC investigated, they ended up sacking the wrong man!
IMHO its about time that GL1 implemented a regime change!
scottyhs
26th Mar 2006, 13:15
Haha LMAO at some of the post in this thread!
I can see why parents are starting to get more concerned every time our sqn goes gliding!!
background
26th Mar 2006, 14:01
Scotty, yet again you get involved with a thread you know nothing about. Now be a good little Cadet and go and do some shoe polishing.
scottyhs
26th Mar 2006, 14:05
Huh what are you on about, why do you always pick a fight with me? lol have you read above your pathetic picking a fight with a 17 year old cadet!Its a public forum so i will say what i want...
Try having a go at GhostRider109 or frigthestoat (sorry to pick you out guys) they didnt agree wih you neither did subdifuge so why not share your glowing amount of love around instead of aiming it in my direction!
SNAFU.
26th Mar 2006, 15:47
FACT: Any flying organisation that operates continously for many years will inevitably experience one or two incidents.
The VGS system provides gliding tuition/experiences for thousands of cadets nationwide each year. As an organisation it has a very good safety record. Isolated incidents like this are sensationalised beyond reasonable debate. What about the hundreds of VGS landings that will have taken place this very weekend without incident? The anonymity available with forums like this unfortunately invites posts that are often wide of the mark and un-necessarily melicious in content. Long may the VGS system continue to provide achievable and worthy flying qualifications to today's youth!
I have now to fill out a CAA occurrence report for a civilian aircraft involved in a similiar incident at my place of work today. And I won't be posting about these 'muppets' on proon later.
scotty,
I think you are being 'picked on' due to the fact you continue to post pointless comments containing nothing but immature and thoughtless garbage! Your opinionated remarks of a system that provided you with flying tuition and your first solo experience are truly cringworthy.
Safe flying everyone!
SNAFU.:ok:
scottyhs
26th Mar 2006, 15:51
ok then sorry i said anything
Insidejob
27th Mar 2006, 08:57
I wouldn't apologise Scotty, you are quite right to express concerns about any flying related incident. Since enquiring about the 6000ft landing space as the first posting, I gather that there are idiots out there who quite honestly I wouldn't trust with a feather duster never mind an aircraft. Just how many of these incidents go unreported by irresponsible "wannabes"-far more I suspect than you and I will ever get to hear about. Keep up the good work ppruners and expose the muppets/idiots or whatever euphemism you apply.:ok:
chevvron
27th Mar 2006, 13:01
With SLMG's, (and normal gliders too) it's possible to get into ground effect and float a long long way before the aircraft speed decays enough for drag to take effect, especially if you don't use spoilers or airbrakes or if the aircraft isn't equipped with either. I've done it on more than one occasion at Halton.
Ghostie31
27th Mar 2006, 13:11
Please excuse my ignorance, but VGS?? :confused:
boswell bear
27th Mar 2006, 15:04
Please excuse my ignorance, but VGS?? :confused:
Volunteer Gliding Squadron
http://www.aircadets.org/gliding_scholarship.html
Let's get the facts before the slagging match kicks off again!
There seems to be an assumption on the part of certain posters that the staff of VGSs are a bunch of cowboys. In my own personal experience, that is far from true. However, I am sure that there are a few idiots around, as with any organisation (RAF included!), who spoil it for the rest of us.
I myself am very privileged to fly at a VGS that runs an extremely professional operation from the CO all the way down to the Flight Staff Cadets. Let's remember that these VOLUNTEERS give up their weekends to provide air cadets with a unique opportunity, to learn to fly. Please don't tar us all with the same brush.
Rant over! :ok:
PhoenixDaCat
28th Mar 2006, 04:17
I thought it was Volunteer Gliding School, not Sqn?
c-bert
28th Mar 2006, 06:21
Nope, definitely Squadron.
Well, having done a quick Google it seems that both are applicable, although I have a piece of paper in my sticky mit from ACCGS that says 'Squadron' on it.
Another St Ivian
28th Mar 2006, 06:25
There was a name change a few months ago. It used to be 'School', now it's 'Sqn'.
frigthestoat
28th Mar 2006, 10:21
LAI - you are right! Some very good VGS' around doing excellent work, but spoilt by just a few complete prats -led by a complete prat(mainly in one VGS)who struggle to complete more than 2 solos in as many years and do their level best to get rid of anyone who knows what are talking about -or so I'm told.
scottyhs
21st Apr 2006, 22:45
like anyhting else the few causing problems for the majority???
FEWNCOP
22nd Apr 2006, 20:51
With SLMG's, (and normal gliders too) it's possible to get into ground effect and float a long long way before the aircraft speed decays enough for drag to take effect, especially if you don't use spoilers or airbrakes or if the aircraft isn't equipped with either. I've done it on more than one occasion at Halton.
Isn't that all of our excuses for never landing on the numbers??? This is the case with any aeroplane - that's why god invented threshold speed. Having said that, if HM hadn't meant us to use all of the runway, she wouldn't have been built so long!!!
Happy landings........
Insidejob
23rd Apr 2006, 14:11
Scottyhs-yep you're right. Its a pity that the system doesn't do something about the idiots who spoil it for the rest of us and give us a bad name. All the system manages to do is clobber the wrong people who do have standards and who speak out against these idiots who somehow go unnoticed(or are ingnored because they are an embarassment) until there's a big splash !
like anyhting else the few causing problems for the majority???
Indeed Scotty, you certainly are one of the few!
How are your shoes coming along.......?
scottyhs
23rd Apr 2006, 21:24
8 posts and u draw a conclusion of me??? wow
Anyway my shoes are fine, i'll do yours for you some time and show you the basic motor skills required to perform such a complex task.....
Anyway anybody know anything about how much they cost to fix??? I was down there at syerston looking at the a/c in question and its a nice job lol, just wondered whats the sort of cost of one of those units?
***EDITED**** Actually GR7 im sorry the above post was a little harsh ill leave the insults to you, your much better at them then i am!
Tourist
23rd Apr 2006, 21:25
Can people please name names and incidents etc, because this is supposed to be a "rumour network", not a "casting vague aspertions from people too craven to come out and make some good juicy allegations network".
For gods sake man up! It's anonymouse!
boswell bear
24th Apr 2006, 08:15
I hope one day those that pour scorn on those that have a prang also have a prang, I hope they then walk away from that prang so they too can face the banter from friends and the inaccurate bulls1t that pours from the holier than thou who in their ignorance believe every incident/accident is a result of a "Cowboy" attitude to flying.
The line between having an accident and having a close shave to bragg about in the bar afterwards is a fine one indeed.
:)
chevvron
24th Apr 2006, 09:09
FEWNCOP; don't know what you fly but I've found that gliders and SLMG's having high aspect ratio wings are much more prone to float even at the correct speed than something like a Cessna 150, which, if you get the speed right, will sit down using no flap with no problem from ground effect.
As I said, I've done it in normal and SLMG's at Halton (which is much less than 6000ft).
I was down there at syerston looking at the a/c in question and its a nice job
Hmm thats interesting as I saw "the a/c in question" flying around quite happily.
Sounds like you talking about two incidents here!!!!! :sad:
The big problem is the ACO gliding movement WAS big. Now people who have held OC / CO / Boss of units should do there job; and get training someone to take over and run the place!!!
Why do positions only last for a few years on full time squadrons?:ok:
scottyhs
24th Apr 2006, 15:04
Hmm thats interesting as I saw "the a/c in question" flying around quite happily.
Lol thats impressive, could be a different incident......the one im talking about was a vigi, witt no longer a tail and when i saw it, the wings and the engine had been stripped off for a rebuild so i think we may have got our wires crossed....think i took a foto of it somewhere ill try and have a look!
scottyhs
24th Apr 2006, 18:49
Yeh sorry i thought we were talking about the other incident...... I am very sorry didnt mean to offend anyone, but still anybody know how much they cost to fix??
I know "Background" put a post in, and if any moderators read this can they email me please, i would like a chat with a mod about him...... However background i apologise for my poor punctuation above, and for your information OASC didnt fail me, although im suprised someone of your extreme ignorance passed through the net! Or did you??