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Bob Down
20th Mar 2006, 08:27
Anyone with any info regarding the above?
Just heard that one of the Swiss ARJ's had a 'smoke event' coming in from Paris. Evac'd on taxiway apparently.
This is a genuine enquiry, and not intended to sling mud!
BD

gofer
22nd Mar 2006, 14:20
Hope U can read German (http://www.baz.ch/news/index.cfm?ObjectID=172E1042-1422-0CEF-702A5B30522CB189)
Basically reason for smoke unknown at that time. :ooh:

F4F
22nd Mar 2006, 17:21
And here's a loose translation of said article:

Cause of smoke aboard a Swiss Jumbolino still unclear. The BFU (AAIB) has launched an investigation. Head of BFU Jean Overney mentioned first taking the case to experts (?), and not knowing how long the investigation would take.
The Swiss machine, inbound from Paris, arrived at Zurich on Sunday. As smoke developed inside the aircraft, all 95 pax and 4 crew had to evacuate using the slides. As a safety measure, the fire brigade attended.
A similar case happened more than 3 month ago, at the beginning of December: A Jumbolino had to return after take-off following smoke appeared on the fdk. The reason was an oil leak in an engine.
Though both machines involved were Jumbolinos, the one of Sunday's evacuation was an Avro RJ100, the one in December of the smaller type Avro 146 R (ARJ85 probably meant)

MarkD
23rd Mar 2006, 02:20
one of the former BACX aircraft?

tallaonehotel
23rd Mar 2006, 07:43
Doesn't matter who operates these aircraft, smoke will always appear in strange ways due to the poor design of the pnuematic system, awful engines and tardy APU...Good old British design!

It would be good to know if it was one of BACX's machines?

Dani
23rd Mar 2006, 15:58
Nope, was an "old" one. The BA ones are all RJ100, while this one was a RJ85, the newspaper is correct. It was HB-IXS.

Dani

gofer
23rd Mar 2006, 16:13
In other words Dani this one (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0976301&WxsIERv=ONR%20Flfgrzf%20Nieb%20146-EW100&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Fjvff%20Vagreangvbany%20Nve%20Yvarf&QtODMg=Mhevpu%20%28-%20Xybgra%29%20%28MEU%20%2F%20YFMU%29&ERDLTkt=Fjvgmreynaq&ktODMp=Abirzore%2026%2C%202005&BP=1&WNEb25u=Xney%20Unyyre&xsIERvdWdsY=UO-VKF&MgTUQtODMgKE=&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=287&NEb25uZWxs=2005-12-15%2002%3A42%3A50&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=R3280&static=yes&width=1280&height=862&sok=JURER%20%20%28ert%20%3D%20%27UO-VKF%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=3&prev_id=0991201&next_id=0976070)
But the newspaper says that it was an RJ100 and this is - whereas the December one was an RJ85. Or is that what you were saying and I am just misinterpreting your words - that I think say the contrary.

If memory serves IXS is not a BA machine but an old Crossair.

Sorry gofer :confused:

DCS99
23rd Mar 2006, 16:23
Ja - IXS is ex-Crossair and definately RJ-100

Voeni
23rd Mar 2006, 21:25
was working that day. my impression on the radio was, that the crew sounded very calm. they reported smoke during roll-out and decided to take the first one right (twy h1), came to a stop. one a/c landed behind (minimum separation), then about 8 g/a... (although a/c was parked on a twy and rwy was clear, probably safety measure).

after they came to a stop, they had the impression that conditions obviously improved as the crew asked to taxi to the gate, which they were not allowed to. had to change frequency then.

Rwy in Sight
24th Mar 2006, 07:27
Some time ago another SWISS RJ landing in LGAV reported smoke and ask for emergecy crew presence at the landing.
I don't remember the date though...
Rwy in Sight

Dani
24th Mar 2006, 12:42
I'm sorry I caused some confusion. Of course IXS is ex-CRX, it is an RJ100 and the old incident was an RJ85.

I agree that those two incidents might not be the only one (although I don't have any numbers). The ball bearings of the Lycoming engine is often losing oil, that's why smoke or "bad socks smell" is pretty common on this type - you all know the court cases of passengers and cabin attendants. But obviously the Avro is not the only aircraft with this problem.

Dani

Voeni
24th Mar 2006, 15:41
The smoke was reported to be in the cockpit, so it might not have been the engine.

aeropers
24th Mar 2006, 16:33
With smoke you have to think of the heirarchy Voeni, like what stages has the air gone through before it arrives in the cabin/cockpit, and what potential smoke sources exist? A leaking engine bleed seal for example will fill the whole aircraft with smoke and trigger all kinds of warnings from lav to cargo smoke, but they're not the real source.

And if anyone is wondering what a 'Jumbolino' is, it was a name given by the lugubrious Moritz Suter to the BAe 146's, he also called the turboprop Saab 2000 'Concordino', so we call his pilots 'Pilotinos'!

Dani
24th Mar 2006, 18:08
...another self-explanatory remark from Aeropers :hmm:

Voeni, why is smoke in the cockpit not possible from the engine? Smoke has the remarkable property to propagate. So even in an aircraft from your world there is one pack of one engine delivering air to the cabin, the other to the cockpit. I know, your background is the knowledge of MUC MD80 and SR111, where the smoke source laid within the cockpit. That doesn't necessarily mean that it always has to be that way. Think out of the box!

Dani

Jungleland
24th Mar 2006, 21:42
Could thay have started the APU on final/touchdown and changed over the packs? Remember the APU in the AVRO 'often' gave smoke, not only after de-ice.

Dani
25th Mar 2006, 03:37
Junglehead, you're spot-on!

I just hear from people who know it that it was the APU. It happened already once on IXS, last time they didn't know the source and continued with smoke removal. This time the crew was smart enough to realize that it just happened after the APU change-over, and switched APU bleed off, thus smoke disappeared.

The APU is due to be changed now.

Dani

Voeni
25th Mar 2006, 08:13
You're right Dani, no objections. I just said, it "might not have been" the engine, but of course, there's the possibility. At least there was no smoke visible outside the engine cowlings, but as you've said, it's still possible.

I'm looking forward reading the investigation report.

X ONE
26th Mar 2006, 07:40
Hi all,
One possible cause is to do with de-icing fluid entering the APU exhaust, this has caused a number of a/c (RJ100, BAE146) to divert back into LGW in the last few years due to this causing smoke in the cockpit
:)

HON 1R
27th Mar 2006, 11:57
A mate of mine flew out of ZRH yesterday and had an engine flameout on takeoff. What's wrong with these RJ's recently?

F4F
28th Mar 2006, 21:23
HON 1R, what do you mean by recently :confused:
Frankly, the 146 and its ARJ offspring is an outdated (just look how the fans work :uhoh: ) and over-engineered piece of after War British design. It's only value nowadays lies in short or steep approach ops, such as the LCY, LUG etc.
With LHs credentials, LH South surely could afford some real aeroplanes...