Helicopters Lyneham?

[LunchMonitor]

Been in the news and in parliament, allegedly the staish has denied it,
any rumours with meat?
http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/search/display.var.707700.0.choppers_bring_ray_of_new_hope_for_lyne ham.php
Choppers bring ray of new hope for Lyneham
By Zoë Mills
THE FUTURE of RAF Lyneham has been given a glimmer of hope after it was revealed the base is being considered as a helicopter superbase.
Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram disclosed the possibility of the station being used under Project Belvedere, a joint helicopter command study.
North Wiltshire MP James Gray has cautiously welcomed the news.
He said guesswork led him to believe it would be similar to the numbers currently at RAF Lyneham around 3,500 military personnel.
"Nothing's been talked about in official terms, but it would be a substantial amount of people to fill the accommodation," he said.
Mr Gray said bringing all the choppers together would make economic sense and would make RAF Lyneham the Army's main helicopter base.
"There would be lots of investment in Lyneham and the whole base would be regenerated," he said. "We must welcome this news. It's estimated that 10,000 people in North Wiltshire owe their livelihood to RAF Lyneham, that's every 10th person you speak to."
Mr Gray said the main downside would be noise from the helicopters, but he had spoken to his colleague, the MP for Odiham, who had relatively few complaints.
"Hercs are noisy too, and we've got used to that," he said. " This is what we've been campaigning for, so the people power must have made a difference."
Mr Gray said the time for heavy-handed campaigning was over, and he now planned to "gently push" the MoD in the right direction.
"This has come at the right time, particularly after the job losses at Dyson, St Ivel and Hygrade. My job is to work with the MoD to keep an eye on what is happening and ensure whatever happens suits our local interests."
Mr Gray was also encouraged by an indication that, even if a joint helicopter superbase was not a reality, other defence uses would be sought.
Villager Andy Humm, a civilian at RAF Lyneham who was set to lose his job when the base closed, said it was positive news for everyone involved.
"It could be great for Lyneham," he said.
"But we'll hold off the celebrations until it's been 100 per cent confirmed."
The remark by Mr Ingram is the biggest hint yet that RAF Lyneham could still be used as a military base after 2012, when the Hercules fleet will be relocated to Brize Norton.
The plan would be to close RAF Benson, in rural Oxfordshire, and RAF Odiham, in Hampshire, and create one huge super-base.
It would mean Merlin, Chinook and Puma helicopters from the two bases relocating to RAF Lyneham when the Hercules fleet leaves in six years time.
Chinooks are cargo carrying choppers, while the others undertake ordinary military activities. All would fly in and out of Lyneham, rather than be transported on other aircraft.
There has been no indication exactly how many helicopters or personnel would be involved in the move, although there are 2,000 employees and three squadrons at RAF Odiham alone.
Time line
2001: MoD announced it was reviewing the role of RAF Lyneham
2002: 16,000 hopefuls sign a petition to save the base
2003: The death knell is finally sounded when the Government announced all Hercules would leave the base by 2012
2004: 130 job losses announced at Lyneham as part of a package of uniformed cuts across the RAF
2005: Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram revealed a further 230 jobs at RAF Lyneham would be slashed over the next three years
2006: Plans mooted for Lyneham to be used as a helicopter super-base after 2012
2012: Final Hercules will move out of RAF Lyneham to RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, along with 2,500 military personnel.

[The Helpful Stacker]

This has been floating around JHC for a while, which has meant that of late pretty much no development is taking place in my particular part of the JHC world, folks are still living in dire accommodation and the roads are falling apart. Oh and a proposed new super block for the Sgts Mess has been shelved.

The sticking point as I see it is the usual, money.

All the units mentioned to be closed for the creation of this 'superbase' at Lyneham would make a pretty penny if sold off I guess except one, Odiham. This is because the MoD doesn't own Odiham (it leases the land off a farmer) and so if we were to pull out of Odiham the land has to be returned to farmland (not exactly cheap I reckon) and also the MoD won't make any money from the land to counteract these costs as it doesn't own it in the first place. A similar problem was faced when they were looking into closing Halton many years ago.

I think perhaps it might be wishful thinking from locals worried about the loss of jobs and custom fuelled by a lot of 'what if' from the military.
I remember not so long ago there was a rumour going around that all the RAF's green units (RAF Regt, TSW, TCW etc) were going to be moved to Fairford to make use of the great facilities the US were leaving behind until apparently someone pointed out most of the station ran on 110v and it'd cost a small fortune to put right.

Many of these rumours come and go these days but thats what most of them are, just rumours.

In my ever so humble opinion of course.;)

Oh, BTW.

Mr Gray said bringing all the choppers together would make economic sense and would make RAF Lyneham the Army's main helicopter base.


Something they're not telling us? Is Teenie Weenie Airways taking over the asylum?:rolleyes:

[16 blades]

There's interest at JHC because of Lyneham's proximity to Salisbury plain. I suppose it makes sense having all the Helos on the doorstep of their biggest training area. Will be sad to see Albert leave Lyneham, though.

Mr Gray said bringing all the choppers together would make economic sense and would make RAF Lyneham the Army's main helicopter base.

Good spot - They'll probably rename it 'Cabbageville Barracks' or something similarly 'green'.

16B

[Door Slider]

Stacker,
Good points however, why shelve the plans for the Sgts Mess Superblock?
Surely if the base was to close they would have only completed the block with a few months before closure is announced?

[airborne_artist]

And if they close Benson how much would it cost MoD in money (and training time lost) to relocate the PFI'd Chinook/Merlin/Puma sim facilities to Lyneham? You can be sure that CAE's lawyers thought about it before they signed the contract.

[FrogPrince]

Likewise for Dishforth and Wattisham. Not much of an opportunity cost in a move from Netheravon, though.

[Cambridge Crash]

Lyneham was compulsarily acquired under Emergency Regulations (1938) for about £12,000 thus Defence Estates are obliged to offer it back to the original owners or their descendents (records are maintained of such things!). The remediation costs would be high so it would appear logical from a budget manager's viewpoint to retain Lyneham (good communications, close to SPTA etc) and bin Benson and Odiham.

[Grimweasel]

well there is a huge slab of concrete pan there available to park the entire UK Helo Fleet I'd imagine?
It would make sense being so close to SPTA and it has two runways and a n/s runway to boot.
Just a shame that the wretched Chinnies would be transiting directly over Grim HQ on the flightpath to SPTA :{

[Door Slider]

Rumours at Benson dont necessarily include Bensons closure, just the relocation of the Rotary assets. The Sim Building would stay here. Not too far to travel, the Chinny guys have to do it anyway.

[airborne_artist]

Just a shame that the wretched Chinnies would be transiting directly over Grim HQ

And what bit of the sound of freedom do you have a problem with? :ok:

[allan907]

Bloody hell. I spent over 70 million quid doing Benson up in the early 90s and goodness knows how much more has been spent getting Merlin et al into place since. And look at the cock-ups over Boulmer and Scampton. Surely somebody ought to be taking the MOD staffers (read, aircrew not administrators) out the back and teaching them a thing or two about real money?

[airborne_artist]

But what, Door Slider, can the RAF do with Benson's real-estate if it stays open? With the concentration of assets onto a smaller number of large bases, a small base like Benson really has no future.

[Door Slider]

It was just one of many rumours, all do with Innsworths closure and relocation of PMA and PTC, one of which is going to High Wycombe, the other one??? Maybe its going to be a blunty superbase!!

[Climebear]

They are both, planned, to go to High Wycombe (although PMA is part of PTC not a seperate entity) with the main body of HQ PTC moving soon(ish) and the remainder of PMA in 2008.

Blunty superbase - last time I was in PMA there were as many, if not more, aircrew officers than admin officers (unless, of course, aircrew in Desk Officer appointments are relegated to bluntydom);)

[Regie Mental]

With regard to Odiham having to be returned to the landowner in it's original state, the landowner can waive this and renegotiate terms should he so wish. Surely the land is worth more with the tarmac, hangars and houses than as farmland so I don't think the covenant on the land will be a problem.

Same applies to Halton House which would cost an astronomical amount to return to it's former glory. However rumours have abunded recently that it may become a hotel.

[chevvron]

Makes more sense to move the SH helis to Honnington to be near the main ABF base in Colchester

[WIWOWessex]

I don't know what the infrastructure at Lyneham is like but Benson cannot sustain any more growth (Pumas from NI?). As it is if too many singlies are logged onto the net and playing CDs the lights get dimmer and the main fuse tends to blow!!!
All the eggs in one basket at Lyneham would suit the bean counters down to the ground but what about accomodation? Where are all the Herc boys families going to go when the Alberts move to BZN? Are we all going to end up commuting for an hour every morning?:ugh:

[FrogPrince]

They do say Leeming's nice when it's not raining... convenient for Spadeadam and the soon-to-be enlarged customer base at Catterick.

:}

[sirsaltyhelmet]

Bids the question, what is so special about Lyneham that it has to stay open?

Seems to me that Odiham and Benson are doing a good job. If it aint broke, why fix it?

Is it cost effective in the short term to have all the RAF SH at Lyneham or is it going to start paying for itself 30/40 years down the line ? The cost of handing back Odiham to its original state is far far greater than the cost of putting the SH force into Lyneham. In these days of "tightened belts" why fork out all that money just to keep Lyneham open?

My answer, Flog Lyneham to Branson

[16 blades]

Runway's a bit short for Branson's lot!

Part of the problem with Lyneham's 'disposal' has always been the cost of moving the J sims - leaving aside for a moment the fact that we still don't actually OWN them (correct me if I'm wrong there, J mates), the figure I heard bandied around was in the region of £12 million - completely wiping out the supposed 'savings' from closure. This, of course, was also contingent upon the 'long term' K fleet remaining at Lyneham, negating the need to move the K sims as well (which we now don't own either). Either way, the base needs to stay open in some capacity as moving BOTH fleet's sims would cost a small fortune - which kind of defeats the object. Yet another example of this Govt's stunning lack of foresight.

I believe the rationale is to keep the base open, with another user paying for it's use, thus allowing the sims to be kept there, whilst the J fleet commute from BZZ to do sims. The 'savings' will come, not from Lyneham's closure, but from the 'new' user disposing of it's vacated property (insert Benson / Odiham / MW as appropriate!)

Personally, I'd have left well alone.....but that's just me.

16B

[southside]

Bids the question, what is so special about Lyneham that it has to stay open?

I have to agree with you there.


Give Mr R. Branson a ring..

[filthytabber]

Southside,

Odiham to the Plain Vs Lyneham to the Plain, think of the savings the bean counters could revel in. Anyway, its going to happen, the Stn Cdr has denied all knowledge of the plan.

[airborne_artist]

Wallingford now says it loves RAF Benson after all!:

Date published: Saturday 25 March 2006
Town fears loss of RAF

Wallingford traders fear RAF Benson may close, despite moves by its base commander to play down the rumours.

Businesses in and around the town fear trade will suffer if the base is axed to make way for a helicopter superbase at RAF Lyneham.

The fears were sparked after a statement by Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram, who said RAF Lyneham could be used under Project Belvedere, a joint helicopter command study.

If that happens it could mean the closure of the RAF's two main helicopter bases at Odiham and Benson, although neither was mentioned specifically.

Wallingford mayor Lynda Atkins [who is an ex-RAF officer] said: "If RAF Benson ever closed we would all be the poorer.

"We would lose a good friend to the town. Wallingford has always had good relations with RAF Benson and we want to see it stay.

"Any thoughts of losing the base would be devastating for us."

Nicky Culnane, licensee of The Crown in Benson, said: "It would hit my trade incredibly hard.

"We have service people in here as regulars and they organise special parties here.

"We also have rooms which contractors on the base use regularly.

"If RAF Benson closed it would be a major tragedy for people locally. Shops and local businesses would all suffer."

But base commander Group Captain Duncan Welham said: "There is a lot of talk going around, mostly speculation in the media, which is not helpful to the base. I can categorically tell you that absolutely nothing has been decided."

The base has 1,600 RAF personnel and 175 civilians working there but there are also hundreds of wives and children in base housing.

Service personnel who would not be named for security reasons said they felt there were rumblings that the base would close.

One said: "There are always rumours because Benson has miles of runways here and helicopters do not need runways. So that part of the base is redundant anyway.

"No-one knows anything for certain but there are worries among service families."

There were rumours two years ago that the base would close under a major review of RAF commitments.

Any move to close Odiham and Benson would be after 2012 when the RAF's Hercules fleet will be stationed permanently at RAF Brize Norton.

[smithoag]

Wallingford now says it loves RAF Benson after all!:
Date published: Saturday 25 March 2006
Town fears loss of RAF
Wallingford traders fear RAF Benson may close, despite moves by its base commander to play down the rumours.
Businesses in and around the town fear trade will suffer if the base is axed to make way for a helicopter superbase at RAF Lyneham.
The fears were sparked after a statement by Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram, who said RAF Lyneham could be used under Project Belvedere, a joint helicopter command study.
If that happens it could mean the closure of the RAF's two main helicopter bases at Odiham and Benson, although neither was mentioned specifically.
Wallingford mayor Lynda Atkins [who is an ex-RAF officer] said: "If RAF Benson ever closed we would all be the poorer.
"We would lose a good friend to the town. Wallingford has always had good relations with RAF Benson and we want to see it stay.
"Any thoughts of losing the base would be devastating for us."
Nicky Culnane, licensee of The Crown in Benson, said: "It would hit my trade incredibly hard.
"We have service people in here as regulars and they organise special parties here.
"We also have rooms which contractors on the base use regularly.
"If RAF Benson closed it would be a major tragedy for people locally. Shops and local businesses would all suffer."
But base commander Group Captain Duncan Welham said: "There is a lot of talk going around, mostly speculation in the media, which is not helpful to the base. I can categorically tell you that absolutely nothing has been decided."
The base has 1,600 RAF personnel and 175 civilians working there but there are also hundreds of wives and children in base housing.
Service personnel who would not be named for security reasons said they felt there were rumblings that the base would close.
One said: "There are always rumours because Benson has miles of runways here and helicopters do not need runways. So that part of the base is redundant anyway.
"No-one knows anything for certain but there are worries among service families."
There were rumours two years ago that the base would close under a major review of RAF commitments.
Any move to close Odiham and Benson would be after 2012 when the RAF's Hercules fleet will be stationed permanently at RAF Brize Norton.

Also read that in the local press,and couldn't believe the hypocrisy of my Old Home-town residents.(now live down the road in Didcot)
World Champion whingers when the Families Day was on a couple of years back plus they don't like the helos,yet they want the RAF to stay to help save their businesses.
Can't have it all ways folks................
As an Oxfordshire based enthusiast,it'll be a sad day indeed for me if Benson were to ever close...many,MANY happy memories from Spotters Corner
just my thoughts
Colin

[Two's in]

Very similar to Germany in the late nineties - one day you are an instrument of fascist oppression and occupation of the Fatherland, and the next day, every bratty stall holder and car salesman in North Rhine-Westfalia is writing to his MP begging for you to stay on. Tres amusing.

The clue, by the way, based on the German model is that if any new hangars or serious infrastructure work starts, you should immediately pack your MFO boxes.

[southside]

Good call.....but remember that a lot of Helicopters work around the IOW gap...and at the moment the transit time is about 20 minutes.....from Lyneham the transit time will be abour 35 mins.....

35 Mins there and 35 mins back will leave about 50 mins on task.....not long is it? still, I understand that the run ashore in Lyneham is a whole lot better than Yeovilton.

[NURSE]

If the Mod is going to do some joined up thinking for the JHC assets wouldn't Coltishal be a better option as it closer to Stamford training area and 16 Air Assualt in Colchester?